As stated back at the beginning, the Clock was only a starter project. Ultimately, I had an ill-defined end goal of “Something with a Nixie Tube Output”, but no concrete idea of what that objective was to be. Since them I’ve recklessly purchased a thermocouple driver, a pair of eInk displays and drivers, and a bunch of random components, including heavy duty switches, a pricer DC/DC converter, and assortments of unidentified items that need future investigation.
Recently there was the recurring problem where the breaker box in my house got too hot and reduced the amperage level at which the breaker for my AC would trip. I could keep replacing the breaker over and over again, but if I don’t do anything about the heat in that space, it will just happen again in future years. I was able to stop the repeated breaker tripping by removing the front panel from the box and letting air flow freely over the electronics within. This isn’t a safe or sane state to keep it in. The idea was floated that I liquid cool the breaker box.
The more I looked at the problem, the more doable it looked. First, lets take a look at the problem:
Now, I don’t want to jam any aluminum heat sinks inside that space, lest I start shorting things out. Nor do I want to run tubes of liquid through that space. But there is something not pictured that can be of use. The panel that I took off is all sheet metal. If I attached the head sinks to the outside of that, the panel would become a heat sink for the stagnant air inside the box. This will keep the two spaces as separated as possible, and I will not be meddling with mains power any more than necessary. Plus, if I need to swap out any breakers in the future, taking off the front panel will remove the heat sinks from the equation.
The second question is where I can set up the head exchanger, coolant pump and reservoir, and the controller module. Well, I do have some open space available.
There’s an outlet right there. The holes in the wall held key hooks that the previous owner of the house took with her when she moved out. I’ll want to find studs in the wall, but I’m sure there’s some in the area. But I did quickly sketch up an idea of how the major components would be laid out.
This is just a draft visualization to give some idea of how it would be laid out. The exact sizes of each component are obviously not taken into account since none of them exist yet. I expect the platform will be a wire shelf so that I can lay the heat exchanger flat and push the air upwards through it. And the exact path of the coolant tubes will be different. I debated putting the heat exchanger in another room entirely, but concluded that I don’t need to make the space cold, just cool enough that the breaker doesn’t trip from the AC usage on hot days. Since just opening the panel helped end the problem, just moving the heat away from the breakers should be enough.
This is obviously a more complicated device, so to make it more practical, I need to break it down into managable pieces. The Thermal System will be largerly off the shelf liquid cooling components and consists of the radiator/heat exchanger, a reservoir/pump, two heat sinks, coolant tubes, two T-junctions for the coolant tubes, three fans for the heat exchanger, some mechanism for draining and flushing the coolant lines, and a simple filter to keep the dust out of the radiator fins. The system would be controlled through the pump, but the manner of that control depends on what hardware I get. The fans should be running whenever the pump is going. The coolant should be of a kind that is as non-conductive as possible. They already sell that for use in computers for people like myself who are paranoid about pumping liquid around electricity.
Almost all of the other systems in the device will be bespoke, designed and built to suit. Some off the shelf components are available. The power supply will err towards off the shelf for safety. Since I already have driver modules and real-time clock modules, those will go into the sensor and timer systems. Anyway, I identified seven major systems to be worked on.
The Display System is actually three subsystems, and the input is a catch-all for a bunch of things which might never interact with each other.
Anyone reading the draft plan will notice that question marks abound. These are areas where I have done the least investigation. So changes are inevitable as I learn more and develop a more finalized design. The project is within my grasp in that I know enough to know I can learn or figure out the pieces I don’t currently have. Plus, other than the power supply and thermal system, I already own the vast majority of components I’ve identified as needing. I will have order some rounds of custom PCBs when I get that far, and may identify pieces that are currently not part of my collection, but the expenditure is less than some of my other hobbies.
So, where did I leave off?
Right, the button presses were not being registered by the Pluggable MSP.
Fun.
Did you bother to clean the AC? It needs cooling too. Code violations and danger are in your future, good luck
This is all staying outside the box. I didn’t want to risk any shorts inside the box.
I see an IR thermometer in his future too. Figure out what is getting hot to cause a breaker trip. Panels sit in garages or outside without tripping. Either a problem with the AC unit or wiring/breaker being undersized.
I would not run water next to a panel by choice. And certainly not anything designed for cooling PCs.
You’re not supposed to use water. There are proper coolants which don’t pose the electrical or corrosion problems of water.
The coolants are distilled water and usually some kind of biocide and possibly a corrosion inhibitor and coloring. The failure on PC water cooling is reason I’ve yet to bother with it.
I’m not suggesting that it’s going to short the panel – I’m suggesting that when it creates the inevitable pinhole leak it’s going to corrode the box and the contents.
Most recently I was looking at Trasnformer Oil. But I’m worried about its physical properties.
There’s always liquid nitrogen.
That’s expensive to run though.
Jesus, just buy a new box. That thing looks at least 50 years old.
JI is correct.
Good news is it appears there’s plenty of slack for a new panel. Can also dress those wires a bit better if it’s a decent sparky doing the work.
Concur.
I do not fuck with electricity. I’m very happy to pay a sparky so as to not die or burn the house down.
You guys going to find one and smuggle them into the PDRNY?
Here you go
https://youtu.be/OV-utRY4A04
I’m not touching mains wiring when I don’t have at least one breaker between me and it.
I paid the sparkles to replace the old Murray (death trap) panel and again when separate branch wiring was glowing according to the wife. I’ll do normal branch work and receptacle changeouts. Reminds I need to split a couple of rooms once the temperature allows working in the attic again.
Absolutely not. They don’t either. If there isn’t any external disconnect on the outside, the meter gets pulled.
My house had a Federal Pacific 100A panel.
When I upgraded it to a 200A Siemens (electrician’s choice wouldn’t have been mine) the electrician said those in the trade referred to them as Flaming Pacific.
Amazing that the house was still intact to be purchased!
Look at Mister Moneybags over here!
In my area, if you replace the box , you have to upgrade the breakers to ground fault circuit breakers regardless of whether your outlets on a circuit are already ground fault protected*.
*some unelected bureaucrat knows what is best for you, citizen
The mandate here is probably smart breakers that can be remotely controlled by the climate council when they’ve decided you’ve had too much electricity.
My house in No. Virginia was still fuses with a split panel to support the a/c. Cost me $1,000 or so as I recall (20 odd years back) to swap all of that out for a proper 200A breaker setup.
As for the remote control of your consumption – that would be at the meter, which they own anyway.
Don’t forget the electrical inspectors, most important part of the job.
I wired my house and cabin, no inspector at the cabin but if you pull a permit you need an inspection.
@JI
“Cost me $1,000 or so as I recall (20 odd years back) to swap all of that out for a proper 200A breaker setup.”
it will be closer to 10k today.
TMZ is on the case.
They’d be stupid not to get on it.
https://x.com/JesseBWatters/status/1820621955612983468
Drip, drip until its a flood.
It won’t matter if Biden and everyone between and including the agents involved come forward and say on live TV – “It was us. We did it. We are just sorry we screwed it up.”
Nothing will happen. No one will be held responsible. That is where we are today people.
Hawley is my senator. He beat Claire McCaskill. He’s running unopposed this primary.
Try not to laugh, I dare ya
Did you mean to link to something funny?
I mean, do we not laugh at “Big Mike” jokes here?
I didn’t recognize the face or the event. 🤷♂️
I will admit that they are a bit lazy considering that the punchline is almost always “Michelle got a penis!”
And I’m sorry for interrupting the technical talk with that! 😉
It looks like a technicality to me.
I laughed but then I’m cutting edge on current events…
A continuous run of 3/16 bulk brake line should make an effective and robust heat exchanger.
I have done my civic duty. Shockingly, they were not giving out “I voted” stickers today. Am disappoint.
Just get your own.
https://lappelduvidesalem.com/products/i-vomited-voting-sticker
If there were no tar and/or feathers, lamp posts, rails, etc. involved, you did not, in fact, do your civic duty.
That requires effort.
They get really forceful around here if you try to decline the sticker. I’ve even told them that the lids of my trashcans were already appropriately labeled (and yes, for most of the lidded garbage cans in the house, under the lid is a happy I Voted! sticker).
No initiative. Get as many stickers as you can. Go to the local cemetery, put them on headstones. Take a picture and upload it for the lulz.
Put one sticker on a headstone. Put four stickers on the next headstone.
Caption: Slacker!
R C Dean:
While I appreciate the thought, I know that I would wind up ruining someone’s day when they came to mourn later.
Last time I voted the woman was perplexed at me declining her offer of a free sticker. What do I care if other people know I voted?
I should figure out where my local precinct is. My kids want me to vote for Mike Moon because “he sends us mail”.
To sum up – the Glib concensus is – Scrap this plan, pick a different one.
Sounds like it. The overheating issue indicates something is wrong that needs to be addressed, and that would be best done by a pro. Still an interesting article, and a nice theoretical exercise.
As you said, if you flush mount your heat absorption component on the exterior surface of the cover you minimize the likelihood of incursion of coolant into the box. You’ll need a flex joint of some sort to enable the door to open an close.
Scrap this plan, pick a different one.
Ignore the naysayers. Pursuit of knowledge is the object.
While I am an exemplar of stubbornnes at times, I do have to occassionally ask if I’ve gone down the wrong road.
I vote for a panel upgrade.
Yeah, older homes weren’t prepared for all the electrical consuming devices we have today. Go big, 200A minimum
UCS, check my breaker box when you visit
UCS, check my breaker box when you visit
*Reconsiders planning trip to Honey Harvest.
You people are no fun.
We have a split panel. One of them is on the exterior of the house. In Tucson. It’s never tripped a breaker.
I think the heat is probably an early warning that you have a problem. I hate to say it, but the smart play is probably a new panel. I do like the exterior liquid cooled heat sink, though. That’s the kind of over engineering this world needs more of.
Until he burns down Remsen Street again.
That wasn’t me. I in fact got stuck in traffic because of the number of streets they had blocked off to deal with that fire.
An alternative
As their name suggests, thermoelectric cooling systems rely on electricity flowing through two different types of conductors – such as different types of metal like copper or zinc. When DC voltage is applied and direct current runs from one conductor to the other, there’s a change in temperature where the two conductors join. When this small thermoelectric effect is multiplied by creating junctions between two ceramic plates, a cooling effect strong enough to keep appliances and computers cool is created.
One plate is the “cool side” while the other is the “hot side.” The cold side goes inside an ice-free cooler or wine refrigerator, while the hot side is connected to metal fins that act as a heat sink to help dissipate excess heat on the outside of the appliance.
Thermoelectric cooling (TEC) is also known as solid-state cooling, because there is no liquid refrigerant running through the machine. Instead, solid metal is used to transfer thermal energy.
I have no idea if the components are available to build one from scratch.
If memory serves – that method of moving heat wasn’t very power efficient. I may be wrong, it’s been a while since I last looked at the technology.
Yes. And you still have to remove the heat on the hot side of the plate.
Ohh, neat idea!
You can find Peltier heat plates in thrift store wine fridges or the car refrigerators that plug into the cigarette lighter.
Who puts trim around their breaker box?
I don’t know, the house came that way. My guess is that when they set it into the drywall, it needed to be decorated in their mind.
Me. In my old house it was in a downstairs bedroom so I framed it and added a cabinet door.
Looked nice.
Sounds like a code violation.
😉
I believe the panel can’t be obstructed by code.
Not that that would stop me from doing exactly that and doing what you did or hanging a picture or something over it.
Yep. Took the door off when I put the house up for sale. Told the new guy where I stashed it lol
I would have to look at the current code.. when my father rewired his house in 1980 the panel was mounted in a regular room (had to be within X inches of the ingress point) and instead of the metal hinged door it has a regular panel behind a wood door with trim. That was accepted by the inspector, and they hate to accept owner installed wiring. My father wanted the panel in a nearby closet, and you could do that but still needed a disconnect on that wall no matter what..
I had a frame and door put around/in front of my breaker box. It was nice.
They probably butchered the drywall when they put it in, and covered it up with the trim.
If memory serves – that method of moving heat wasn’t very power efficient. I may be wrong, it’s been a while since I last looked at the technology.
Based on that little article, effectiveness drops ff precipitously with scale. Also, the temperature drop is limited by ambient temp.
Is it viable to install a mini split AC? I’m doing several and they pull about 8 amps max. You could use an extension cord and they would work fine.
Great little units, 550$ or so
Not suggesting using an extension cord but you could
8A at 240V or 120V?
I keep eyeing one up for one room in the house that they couldn’t get central A/C into. It would be nice for both AC in the summer and as a supplemental heat pump for heat in the winter.
120v.
I have a bit on mini splits coming in my next article/post
Looking forward to it, Yusef. Mrs. Dean likes her bedroom sub-Arctic at night, and that might be a more efficient way to do it.
My friends are off-grid and their panels are able to power one. Pretty slick little beasties.
My kid got one for her apartment in Washington. A/C is not standard out there, but she’s had a lot of very uncomfortable 80 degree days. The first one kept blowing fuses, then she got one that uses less power and pulls in outside air. That’s working great.
Here’s the bracelet my gf made for herself at the jewelry place.
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/02DpQgWmTPuPoo8rZQzxew.RiLLtXBGqFA0RNKwPSSnm3
Very nice!
Take a falconry lesson yet?
Last time we were here. Didn’t feel the need to do again.
Hammered, molded, or engraved?
Or was it cold rolled?
It’s three pieces of stock silver joined together by the rose gold banding. There was a lot of options on the materials.
Oh, so she didn’t add the pattern to the silver?
Nope. Not that advanced.
Beautiful!
Based on previous info, I believe the panel in question is set in an exterior wall upon which the summer sun beats unimpeded, in a hall or alcove with very little air movement. What happens when, having paid a king’s ransom to an electrician to replace the panel and update innumerable other circuits as required by revisions in the code, the original problem remains?
To be honest, a fan blowing on the panel on those extra hot days might fix the problem. That would be one hell of a lot cheaper than rewiring the house.
Hmm. Or a shed on the exterior of the building opposite the panel?
I’m not sure I understand the question.
Something to block the sun from shining on the exterior wall.
I can’t build out there, one side of that corner is public sidewalk, the other is someone else’s property.
Another choice is just to put a reflective surface on the outer wall so that sunlight is not absorbed. Tape aluminum foil on the outside wall. Or tack on a piece of foam insulation with a radiant barrier.
It will look like shit, but it will keep the panel cooler.
It will also get me visits from code enforcement, since that is a highly visible spot on the exterior.
You’ll have to hang some wall art then.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/LuLu-Decor-Decorative-Metal-Vine-Wall-Mirror-Frame-Measures-25-Round-Beveled-Mirror-9-Perfect-for-Housewarming-Gift-L72LM/666643111?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=4357
Yanno, with a correctly concave mirror, UCS could get some revenge on his neighbors.
🤔
There’s your next project. Archimedes Death Ray.
It is in the back entryway on two exterior walls on the sun side of the house. The air there does not move. At all.
I agree here. Open the panel and have a cheap fan blow ambient air onto the breakers on hot days.
Unless you intend to remodel the house, there is no real reason to change the break out panel and incur a massive cost to come up to modern code.
It’s always Dodge…
Lithia dealership sued after fatal Challenger test-drive crash
https://archive.fo/fba41#selection-7467.0-7467.62
Given that the salesperson was along for the ride the dealership and/or its insurance is going to be writing large checks.
Did he have a driver’s license? If so, why the fuck would the dealership run a background check?
Because it’s a plaintiff writing a complaint…
I had a BMW dealer that allowed my wife to have a spirited drive in a 7 series. (more cornering performance, not straight line stuff). The stupid stuff is kept to track days. I’ve seen a pro race driver take a ML55AMG through a bunch on cones on the autocross course. Nice and safe.
When Mrs. Dean bought the AMG E63, I got the impression the test drive was like the classic Jeff Gordon commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBB9jU5Syc
And the dealership is part of the largest auto group in the country. I knew Lithia had been growing but didn’t realize they’re that big. I used to get coffee at the Starbucks in their HQ lobby.
Meece should never have been allowed behind the wheel, the lawsuit alleges, pointing to Ector County Jail records showing he had been arrested repeatedly on suspicion of vehicle-related violations from 2007 to 2023, including more than one instance of reckless driving. The litigation does not specify how many of these arrests led to prosecutions or convictions.
“Based on Meece’s publicly available history, however, Salas and All American should never have let him behind the wheel of any vehicle, let alone a high-performance one,” according to the lawsuit filed in Ector County District Court in Texas. “Just a cursory review of local arrest records would have made clear to Salas and All American that Meece should not be trusted to drive such a car in Monday morning traffic. His many reckless driving and failure to maintain financial responsibility infractions should have set off alarms to Salas and All American.”
And now all you suckers who buy cars from dealerships will have to pass a fucking background check before you can even be allowed on the lot.
Russell Brand talks to Rand Paul. Rand really really doesn’t like well known liar Anthony Fauchi.
https://rumble.com/v59x93l-exposed-it-goes-deeper-than-we-imagined-disturbing-new-vaccine-info-sf-424.html
Rand wrote an entire book about Fauci. So yes.
Thanks, I’m going to watch that.
Russell Brand’s show is pretty hot right now. At the RNC he had a booth and he got a ton of big names to show up, which was so fun. Good for him!
Paul is fuckin’ head-over-heels in love with Fauci compared to my feelings for that little toad.
The veepie wannabe might be embellishing his military record.
https://alphanews.org/fellow-veteran-speaks-out-on-walzs-misleading-statements-about-military-record/
The only thing that is going to keep the Dem Party operatives from stealing this election are just how incredibly stupid Harris and her campaign are.
“Vance actually went to a combat zone while in the service?? Weird!”/Dems
I mean, did he really? He was just a combat correspondent /sarc
OBE:
I’ve seen that article quite a bit, usually with the headline of “Did JD Vance Really Serve?”. I’m curious if that line of attack is going to be dropped or ramped up with Walz being the VP pick. I did check out the Kamala Harris for President page today, and it’s shockingly empty. No stance on issues, no platform, just little tongue baths about Harris and Walz, links to donate and volunteer, and a FAQ about donations.
Reminds me when I was a Rush listener and Kerry getting “swiftboated”
Ah, a deep cut off the Feedback album. Good times.
It worked, right?
sin,
Harry Reid
https://mn.gov/governor/about-gov/timwalz/
After 24 years in the Army National Guard, Command Sergeant Major Walz retired from the 1-125th Field Artillery Battalion in 2005.
So he probably made well into pension territory without a deployment (which is how it should be in the NG unless there’s a real declaration of war).
I got out about the same time because there were too many idiotic deployments coming up. My old unit ended up guarding Abu Ghraib prison for a year, then a year later were sent to Somolia – which Walz would like.
Wondering if that’s why he punched out?
It’s in NA’s article…
Back in early 2005, a warning order went out to southern Minnesota’s First Battalion-125th Field Artillery to mobilize for a mission to Iraq, Behrends said. Walz served as the unit’s highest non-commissioned officer after he was conditionally promoted to command sergeant major on April 1, 2005, records show. On May 16, Walz retired from the guard, avoided the deployment, and ran for Congress.
Walz has implied in previous statements that he didn’t retire because of the deployment, but National Guard records show his service obligation wasn’t complete until September 2007.
Behrends was next in line for the position and was asked to take his place.
Congress sounds better than a deployment to a shit hole for the neo-cons.
My guess is either Walz was already planning to retire and the paperwork was inflight or he was pushed aside prior to deployment. It’s not uncommon to remove senior leader for whatever reason (issues, not a good fit with command team, etc) during callup and pre deployment training.
Once you’re retirement eligible, you can do so generally prior to your expiration of service (which is generally a set period from your last reenlistment).
The last Pol I can think of that did not do that was Gerald Ford.
We hear from them how they bravely marched into the maw of the beast but when the guys who were there with them are asked they always seem to start off with “That sniveling chickenshit coward…”
Pols are sociopaths.
Bush the elder flew in WWII and was shot down in combat.
I don’t recall hearing any complaints about his courage, or lack thereof, under fire.
JFK bravely got his PT boat rammed by a destroyer.
I did check out the Kamala Harris for President page today, and it’s shockingly empty. No stance on issues, no platform, just little tongue baths about Harris and Walz, links to donate and volunteer, and a FAQ about donations.
You have to elect her to find out what she plans to do.
You have to elect her to find out what she plans to do.
Not really. We can expect more of the same plus some new fuckups as well.
All one needs to know is she wants to take things from those who earned it and give to those who haven’t.
As I said earlier, they are running on her identity because there is no possible way they could win on her record or her positions. That can be said of most Democrats these days as well.
It worked for Obama.
“It worked for Obama.”
Although, as Obama himself noted, he was something of a blank slate.
I see some of my proggie friends on social media are reposting that Vance’s wife doesn’t really know what she got into, deserves better, and hopefully will leave him soon. This echoes some of the old 2016+ that Trump’s wife was in an abusive relationship and she would probably “escape” the marriage once Trump left office. AND, the old 1990s that the Clintons were in in a ‘political’ marriage and that as soon as Bill left office, they would divorce.
What is it with people who think they are mindreaders?
Low-key shaming? I dunno. Highly doubtful any spouse doesn’t know what they are getting into in this regard.
“You mean, if you win, I get to live in an awesome mansion in DC with lots of servants? Fuck that!”
FIFY
Oops Tag fail.
Remember these are people who want to control other people’s lives and spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about other people’s actions. It makes sense.
Nice article, UnCivil. I look forward to your creative code violations later.
No, I think it’s more a logic fail: “Vance is Trump’s veep –> Vance is racist. Vance’s wife is non-white. Therefore, she can do better.”
I look forward to your creative code violations later.
Legit lol
Poor lady, got married to a highly successful man. Kind of a worst case scenario for most women.
Huh?
Well, they cant really come right out and say she is a substitute sockpuppet with strong stalinist tendencies, can they?
Can you believe those racist Parisians?
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/leylamohammed/serena-williams-denied-entry-restaurant-paris-response
It’s long been my understanding that Parisians practiced equal opportunity rudeness.
France was one of the most difficult places I had to travel for business. In China, no one spoke English. In France, no one will speak English.
I joke that Europe has a shortage of everything…except arrogance. That is not entirely true. The Eastern Europeans are of a different sort. Many of them are very polite.
Looking at the other stories linked there. Black this, black that, black, black, black…..Do these people really not see how foam-at-the-mouth racist they are? And Williams..dyeing her hair blonde? Jeebus.
I cant imagine the hell these people’s minds are trapped in. They see absolutely everything through the lens of race.
I see some of my proggie friends on social media are reposting that Vance’s wife doesn’t really know what she got into, deserves better, and hopefully will leave him soon.
She’s nothing but a possession? A bauble? She has no agency or volition? Heaven forbid the possibility of her actually liking him, and wanting to be in an active partnership with him. Women aren’t capable of that.
See, people of color belong to progressives. To suggest otherwise would be racist.
See ‘black bodies’, ‘bodies of color’, ‘menstruating people’, dehumanizing terms ad infinitum. I dont see many people pointing that out.
Ray of Sunshine!
https://newjerseymonitor.com/2024/08/06/applications-for-gun-carry-permits-soared-in-new-jersey-after-u-s-supreme-court-ruling/
I was issued the first one after Bruen in my township.
Can you believe those racist Parisians?
I have no intention of reading TFA. Was she dressed like a circus clown?
Classic “Don’t you know who I am?”
“No, sir, I do not.”