Chapter 9 – The History of the Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed (AVA)

by | Oct 1, 2019 | Big Government, DoD Anthrax Vaccine, Executive Branch, Federal Power, History, Liberty, Military, National Security, Regulation, Rule of Law, Science | 122 comments

The first use of a human anthrax vaccine took place in 1954.[i] The primary purpose for an anthrax vaccine, like all vaccines, was to provide some prophylaxis for human beings from contracting the anthrax bacteria, which is typically found in cattle and other livestock hides. The people most likely to come into contact with the anthrax spores were (a) livestock handlers, and (b) people who might be handling animal hides in leather-working factories or similar places. The first comprehensive field trial of a human anthrax vaccine was conducted at goat-hair processing mills from 1955-59 in the northeastern United States by Dr. Philip Brachman. This study has come to be known as the Brachman Study because it is, essentially, the only data available on the subject.[ii] In this study, 369 workers in the mill who handled animal hides were vaccinated against the bacteria. The results, while not spectacular, certainly indicated that the vaccine was effective against catching anthrax from handling pelts and hides that had the spores: to be precise, the vaccine trial was designed to provide prophylaxis against contacting anthrax via contact with the skin, the most likely method of encountering the spores. The study showed a “high confidence level of 93% effectiveness” for the vaccine and a low of 65%, a significant spread.

The Michigan Department of Public Health first produced the Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed (AVA) under an Investigational New Drug application (DBS-IND 180) in 1966. MDPH filed a license application for the manufacture of Anthrax Protective Antigen, Aluminum Hydroxide Adsorbed in 1967. The specification for manufacture is based on U.S. Patent 3,208,909. The license application references an article published in “Applied Microbiology” that details the production process. The license to manufacture AVA, granted in 1970, has two parts. One license is for the facility, the Establishment License Application (ELA); the other is for the product itself, the Product License Application (PLA). MDPH produced AVA continuously (if in small quantities) from its first contract (PH21-68-2064) in 1968 until 1997 when MDPH split off its biologics division and privatized it into the Michigan Biologic Products Institute. MBPI in turn sold the facility and its licenses to BioPort, Incorporated, in 1998, a subject to which we will return in detail later.

Bacillus anthracis is a bacteria that survives in its environment by exuding enzymes that break down surrounding compounds, such as fats, proteins, and polysaccharides (complex sugar molecules). The bacteria then absorb these byproducts. In addition to secreting the enzymes, which serve a nutritional gathering function for the bacteria, anthrax also secretes two toxins, or poisons, known as lethal factor (LF) and edema factor (EF). These two toxins only work, however, when combined with a protein known as Protective Antigen (PA). A vaccine will be effective against anthrax if it confers a certain level of antibody response to the PA, thus inhibiting the expression of LF/EF. In other words, if the vaccine causes the immune system to create enough antibodies that will fight and overwhelm the Protective Antigen, it is considered effective.

The anthrax vaccine is unique among vaccines in that there is no step in the manufacturing process for purifying the active fraction of the vaccine. The vaccine is made by growing a non-virulent strain of anthrax in a culture. This culture is filtered to remove the bacteria, but the remainder, including the proteins and enzymes, is absorbed onto aluminum oxyhydroxide. The antigens that are absorbed are then centrifuged out of the solution and, without being “washed”, are then resuspended into a saline solution with some preservatives. Because of the way in which the bacteria secretes enzymes and absorbs proteins, the vaccine is

composed of an undefined crude culture of supernatant adsorbed to aluminum hydroxide. There has been no quantification of the protective antigen content of the vaccine or of any of the other constituents, so the degree of purity is unknown. Standardization is determined by an animal potency test.[iii]

One would think that this statement must have come from an anthrax vaccine opponent, except that it is from an article authored by Colonel (Dr.) Arthur Friedlander, U.S. Army – as of 2004, the Chief Researcher at the U.S. Army’s Medical Research laboratory at Ft. Detrick, Maryland – and Dr. Philip Brachman, head of the original study on the previous Merck Pharmaceuticals-manufactured anthrax vaccine. As Dr. Friedlander notes, the antibody titer – the level of antibodies produced by the body in response to the vaccine, measured by a blood test – varies widely from lot to lot of the vaccine and is measured by injecting guinea pigs and measuring antibody response. This variety is due, in part, because the manufacturing process, developed in the 1960s, is antiquated by modern microbiology standards, which now control how a vaccine is judged for licensing purposes. All of this means that even under ideal conditions, the vaccine is likely to produce significant differences in potency from batch to batch. The problem with the AVA is that it has never been manufactured under anything even approaching ideal conditions.

At the same time that the original Brachman study’s results were being published in 1954, the development of the anthrax vaccine continued apace. Interestingly, the vaccine used in the Brachman study was originally made by Merck Pharmaceutical, but it was changed in both content and production method by a new manufacturer, the Michigan Department of Public Health. This changed vaccine, not the original one used in the Brachman study, was what was patented by the U.S. Army in 1965.[iv]

In 1967, an application was submitted to the National Institute of Health’s Division of Biologics Standards to get a license for the patented vaccine. A study was conducted at a Talladega mill using the newly-patented vaccine: but this study’s results have never been published. There was correspondence between the NIH and the head of the Talladega study indicating that there were problems with the methodology. Dr. Philip Coleman, the head investigator, wrote candidly to the NIH: “As to the efficacy of the vaccine, we have no real method of determining the protection afforded.”[v] There were also memos exchanged regarding the scientific validity of the Talladega study. An ad hoc licensing oversight committee sent a memo to a Dr. Margaret Pittman of the Department of Health Education and Welfare (HEW), the forerunner to the Dept. of Health and Human Services (DHHS), pointing out that “[t]he lack of cases of anthrax in an uncontrolled population of approximately 600 persons in the Talladega mill can hardly be accepted as scientific evidence for efficacy of the vaccine.”[vi] Notwithstanding these problems, Doctor Pittman recommended licensure of the vaccine on February 10, 1969, while acknowledging that “clinical data establishing efficacy of the product had not been submitted and that data be requested from NCDC (National Communicable Disease Center).”[vii] Efficacy data was a prerequisite to licensure by the 1962 Kefauver-Harris Amendments to the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, previously detailed in Chapter 5.[1]

On November 2, 1970, the license for the anthrax vaccine was recommended for approval by HEW without any of the required efficacy data. [viii] The License was granted on 10 November 1970. In an interesting twist, the efficacy data from the earlier Brachman Study was substituted, submitted, and accepted (yet no documentation of this submission has been uncovered). The Brachman Study is actually referenced on the approved package insert, even though the vaccine used in the Brachman Study differed from the licensed vaccine in strain, formulation, and production method. While there are those who will argue (and DoD representatives have before Congress) that the vaccines are sufficiently similar to allow conclusions to be drawn, that is a scientific debate. As a legal matter, it holds no weight. There is absolutely no way today, under the existing regulatory-licensing framework, that a company could get a license for a drug from the FDA by substituting a study from some other company’s drug, made by a different production method, using a different strain of bacteria, from a study done decades before. As one former FDA official who worked in the Department at that time sheepishly admitted, “these were the days when we were trying to help the industry.”[ix]

When the Department of Biologics Standards was transferred under the FDA in 1973, a review began of all previously licensed vaccines that had not been required to show the necessary efficacy data. The anthrax vaccine would not undergo the necessary review for efficacy data until 12 years later, in 1985. During this review, the FDA concluded that “safety of this product is not a major concern, especially considering its very limited distribution…”[x] The committee also noted that “[a]nthrax vaccine poses no serious special problems other than the fact that its efficacy against inhalation anthrax is not well documented.”[xi] Finally, the Panel concluded that “there is sufficient evidence to conclude that anthrax vaccine is safe and effective under the limited circumstances for which this vaccine is employed.”[xii]

During the Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program (AVIP) rollout, the DoD publicly long claimed that “the vaccine has ‘an impressive safety record’” and that “it has been widely used for thirty years,” but neither of those statements can be squared with the 1985 review, which resulted in a proposed rule that was never been acted upon.[xiii] The 1985 review noted that “[i]mmunization with this vaccine is indicated only for certain occupational groups with risk of uncontrollable or unavoidable exposure to the organism. It is recommended for individuals who come in contact with imported animal hides, furs, wool, hair (especially goat hair), bristles, and bone meal, as well as laboratory workers involved in ongoing studies on the organism[xiv] The license was granted in 1970, but the vaccine was not widely distributed nor widely used, given the narrow slice of the population involved in animal hide handling. In fact, in November of 1971, the Division of Biologics Standards of the National Institutes of Health, noting an apparent increase in reports of adverse reactions after individuals received booster shots, published guidance on the vaccine’s shot regimen.

The Division considered it advisable to reevaluate the need for annual boosters and possibly the amount of the booster dose . . . Although the record is unclear as to whether or not the Division requested the manufacturer to conduct a reevaluation, no such reevaluation has been done to date.[xv]

Part of the problem may stem from the vaccine’s shot regimen, which consists of the first three shots given within 2 weeks of each other, and then another 3 shots spread out over the remainder of a year, for a total of 6 shots to complete the series, with annual boosters thereafter.

The DoD’s media campaign, though, rising to over $70 million dollars spent for a website and other educational information for the troops, includes literature that says the anthrax vaccine “has been safely and routinely administered in the United States to veterinarians, laboratory workers, and livestock handlers for more than 25 years.”[xvi] An April 2000 Congressional House report noted, however, that “testimony at the March 24 hearing indicated between 100 and 300 civilians may receive the vaccine each year. Since approval, and prior to the AVIP, fewer than 68,000 doses had been distributed apart from stocks used in Operation Desert Storm.”[xvii] Shortly after the vaccine was licensed, the mills began closing as the garment industry changed. The risk of exposure and infection from anthrax spores by the general public disappeared. The vaccine’s use became limited to experiments on laboratory animals, the researchers conducting the experiments, and the staff at the manufacturing plant. Proof of this is that from its licensing until 1988, when the DoD sought to increase the production lines for it, only 68,000 doses of the vaccine had been produced by MDPH and MDPH had never made a lot of more than 7500 doses at one time. If vaccination consists of six shots plus annual boosters, the number of possible persons inoculated is so small as to not even be statistically significant for long-term epidemiological studies. The 1985 Panel noted that “[t]he vaccine manufactured by the Michigan Department of Public Health has not been employed in a controlled field trial.”[xviii]

Finally, there was never any effort to track long-term health effects from those who received the vaccine. There was no database maintained or other central records kept to track an individual’s long-term reactions to the vaccine. The Institute of Medicine conducted a review of all available literature and concluded that “[t]here is a paucity of published peer-reviewed literature on the safety of the anthrax vaccine.”[xix] It also noted that “[t]here have been no studies of the anthrax vaccine in which the long-term health outcomes have been systematically evaluated with active surveillance.”[xx] At no time in the history of the anthrax vaccine did their exist, or has their existed, support for the DoD’s claims of “an impressive safety record.” In truth, the DoD’s claims are particularly hollow and appear to be part of a campaign of disinformation. As a Congressional Committee noted in April 2000, “[p]reposterously low adverse report rates generated by DOD point to a program far more concerned with public relations than effective force protection or the practice of medicine.”

The vaccine’s licensed product insert expresses an expected systemic adverse reaction rate of 0.2 %. In May, 1999, the Department of Defense reported a total of 123 Vaccine Adverse Events Report System (VAERS) filings with the FDA, but included only 65 of those in the calculation of an adverse reaction rate of 0.007 percent of 890,888 vaccinations given to that date. This means one of two things: either the vaccine is more safe than the product label indicates by a factor of 100, or the data is being underreported. Under pressure to conduct at least some studies, the DoD has done so and those studies have suggested much higher adverse reaction rates than the PR claims. In a study at Tripler Army Hospital, Hawaii, the data showed that 2.2% of men missed one or more shifts of duty after the first shot, 2.0% after the second, and .9% after the third. For women, the numbers were higher, consistent with other studies conducted. Women in the Tripler study indicated rates of 5.5%, 5.0%, and 3.9% for the first second and third shots, respectively.[xxi] A study on soldiers in Korea on systemic reactions also revealed significantly higher adverse reaction rates. Men and women were surveyed regarding symptoms of fever, malaise, and chills. In each of these categories, the numbers reflect numbers that are in some cases 1000 times higher than what DoD has testified to before Congress or stated in press releases. The Korea study’s numbers for men and women after the first shot are:

Fever – 0.9 % men, 2.8% women; Malaise – 6.0% men, 15.6% women; Chills – 1.5% men, 5.5% women. Second shot systemic reaction rates are similar or higher.[xxii]  What is disturbing about these numbers is not the adverse report rates themselves; the most disturbing thing is that DoD had similar numbers from a survey taken of soldiers inoculated from 1977-1996 at Fort Detrick, Maryland.[xxiii] This means that the DoD has had similar adverse reaction rates the whole time it has been claiming publicly that the vaccine has the “preposterously low” rates that they have been reporting. Completely provable lies.

The problems with the anthrax vaccine are not mere quibbling, but rather raise significant questions about how this vaccine is made, its component parts, and the actual lots that are currently sitting on the shelf at the manufacturer’s facility, ready to be shipped or already shipped to the DoD for use on service members.[2]

Endnotes

[1] See Chapter 5, pp. 48-50.

[2] I would remiss if I did not give credit to the research conducted by Major Russ Dingle, USAFR, whose knowledge about the anthrax vaccine manufacturing process is encyclopedic in its breadth and depth. Any errors are entirely mine.

[i] Wright, GG. Et al. Studies on Immunity in Anthrax. The Journal of Immunology. Vol. 73 No. 6 pp387-391

[ii] Brachman. P.S. et al. Field Evaluation of a Human Anthrax Vaccine. American Journal of Public Health. Vol. 52 pp. 632-645

[iii] A.M Friedlander and P.S. Brachman, “Vaccines”, ed. Plotkin and Mortimer, 1994 edition chapter 26, pg. 737.

[iv] Pubis, M. Wright, GG. Anaerobic Process for Production of a Gel-adsorbed Anthrax Immunization Antigen. United States Patent Office Record. September 28, 1965. page 1471

[v] Philip Coleman, Acting Chief, Investigational Vaccines Activity , letter to Division of Biologics Standards, National Institutes of Health, 25 January 1968.

[vi] Ad Hoc Committee letter to Dr. Margaret Pittman, 6 February 1969.

[vii] Dr. Margaret Pittman, letter to Dr. Sam Gibson, 10 February 1969.

[viii] HEW memorandum from Margaret Pittman to Reference No. file 67-70. 2 November 1970.

[ix] Conversation with Mr. Sammie Young, former Director of Biologics Division of the FDA.

[x] 21 C.F.R. 51002, 51008

[xi] Id.

[xii] Id.

[xiii] DoD Press Briefing, Dec. 5, 1997.  Available at http://www.defenselink.mil/news/  then follow links to 1997 archives.

[xiv] 21 C.F.R. 51002, 51008

[xv] GAO Report T-NSIAD-00-48, Testimony of Dr. Kwai-Cheung Chan, Director, Special Studies and Evaluations, National Security and International Affairs Division

[xvi] See note xii.

[xvii] April 2000 Shays’ report, citing Prepared statement of Dr. Kathryn Zoon, Director, FDA Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, NSVAIR anthrax hearing (II), pp. 52-53.

[xviii] 21 CFR 51002, 51008

[xix] “An Assessment of the Safety of the Anthrax Vaccine”, A Letter Report, Committee on Health Effects Associated with Exposures During the Gulf War, Institute of Medicine, 30 Mar 2000

[xx] Id.

[xxi] GAO Report, T00-48, Table 3.

[xxii] GAO Report T00-48, Table 2.

[xxiii] See GAO Report T-NSIAD-99-226, July 21, 1999.  Table below shows the results of Ft. Detrick study.

Dose number Males percent (# of doses) Females % (# of doses)
First 3.75 (1013) 3.86 (259)
Second 3.06 (979) 7.29 (247)
Third 1.71 (938) 5.06 (237)
Fourth & Later 3.40 (5062) 7.06 (747)

 

About The Author

Ozymandias

Ozymandias

Born poor, but raised well. Marine, helo pilot, judge advocate, lawyer, tech startup guy... wannabe writer. Lucky in love, laughing 'til the end.

122 Comments

  1. dbleagle

    Yet another gut punch from Ozzy. Good work sir.

  2. straffinrun

    “has been safely and routinely administered in the United States to veterinarians, laboratory workers, and livestock handlers for more than 25 years.”

    The DoD misrepresented the actual number of people that received the vaccine? Basically sounds what govt does with every statistic. I mean, they were technically right, no?

  3. PieInTheSky

    We poor Romanians don’t even get a free anthrax vaccine and you people complain about it.

    • straffinrun

      Loved the pics by the way.

  4. Sir Digby

    The kick in the cock that is the reality of the US Gov’t.

    Fuuuuuck. Sorry to be so in-artful, but, I don’t really have a better way to express the insulting nature of this debacle.

    • Ozymandias

      The good news is… it gets worse! (So you’ve got that going for you.)

  5. CPRM

    Quit your whining, we all know the government sciences better than the private sector, 98% of government funded scientists agree!

    • CPRM

      And also, nothing about autism, so it’s a non-story…

      • Sir Digby

        I think C might be on to something with the autism angle.

        Or, he’s in ON it….

  6. dbleagle

    For me it was the third anthrax shot that kicked my ass. I felt like crap for a week, including on a flight to Korea.

    • Ozymandias

      A not-uncommon reaction to one of the first three. Also happened to some folks on one of the follow-up boosters.
      When I was hip-deep in this stuff I used to have access to information about specific lot numbers, but we’re long past that now.
      I know that auto-immune reactions were also among the symptoms of people who had serious adverse reactions.

  7. Sir Digby

    Man, Tuesdays DO suck…where my late peeps at?

    • dbleagle

      Mourning our loss of innocence? Helping HA with her “body work”? We are multitudes.

      • Sir Digby

        Those two options could very well be the same thing, and….well, put me down for your newsletter, would ya?

      • Sir Digby

        Hmmm….not the “body work” I was hoping for.
        But, probably the one I deserve.

    • Tejicano

      Not seeing a lot of activity from here…

      • straffinrun

        I’m lurking.

      • Sir Digby

        Tejicano–you just wrote my biography.

        ?

    • Akira

      Here!

      Just ate some split pea soup, did some laundry, and now I’m ending the day with a whiskey and soda (Russell’s Reserve Rye, to be exact).

      Unfortunately, gotta hit the sack in about 30 minutes.

      • dbleagle

        Some Hine Cognac here and chilling until bed in a bit.

        It is quiet in the hallowed hall of the late night glibs tonight.

      • Sir Digby

        It’s Tuesdays, I tells ya. Since it’s my “hump day” re: work, it has become a bit of a downer for me. I think Mojeaux agreed with my overall premise. And, of course, two is practically a quorum (around here)…

      • dbleagle

        HA and Mj are not to be trifled with. I had a very pleasant dinner with HA when I went to Cali on business. She is very sharp and witty.

      • Gustave Lytton

        And she has access to high energy weapons. Not just what you see here, pal.

      • dbleagle

        I know. She shared with me a picture of a quarter that was compressed to the size of a dime by the magnetic force from one test. Awesome.

      • Sir Digby

        I had a very pleasant dinner with HA when I went to Cali

        If I ever make my way there, I would hope to emulate the experience. Sans advanced weaponry, of course.

        And, yes–neither of them are to be trifled with (dammit).

        +1 40-Watt range, Gustave.

  8. Gustave Lytton

    I suddenly feel like Bruce Willis at the end of the Sixth Sense.

    Twenty years ago I came down with what was one of the worst flu cases in my life. Fever, malaise, etc that went on and on. Except that I didn’t have all of the usual symptoms (maybe lack of runny nose, I forget). Wasn’t quite right. Just dug through my files after finishing this article and sure enough, would have been after Anthrax #2 (along with several other predeployment injections).

    Thank you Ozy for revealing what was always there. I feel like an ass. Another drink and off to sleep.

    • Sir Digby

      Anthrax #2: Anthrax Harder?

      Well, enjoy your beverage and slumber.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Just did some googling for side effects and came across a VA factoid sheet for the vaccination. Will wait until the end of the series to link to it, but having read the above, it’s total water carrying for DOD.

      • Ozymandias

        Gustave – When I finished this case, I, too, felt like Bruce Willis… except in Twelve Monkeys.

      • UnCivilServant

        Toothless and bleeding out as younger you stares, traumatized?

    • straffinrun

      Better than Bruce at the end of Sin City.

  9. BakedPenguin
    • dbleagle

      There was a small subdivision near Ft Bragg in which the developer named all the roads after heavy metal bands. Shortly after 9/11 when the anthrax was mailed the residents got the county to change Anthrax Street to a different band name.

      • Sir Digby

        I….huh. That’s rather awesome.

      • BakedPenguin

        “No, we want it to be Iron Maiden Blvd.” ha ha ha

        Also, I really didn’t like Joe Jackson until I found out that was his song. I forgave him for the pablum that was “Stepping Out”

      • Gustave Lytton

        I like that song.

      • Sir Digby

        Count me in, too, Gustave.

        I’m sure I’m gonna lose cred with someone around here, eventually.

        ::recalls offering up hair pics::

      • BakedPenguin

        You’re both wrong. You know it, because someone on the Internets said so.

      • Sir Digby

        Well, that checks out.

        Dammit, Gustave!

    • Sir Digby

      I was so grounded when mom discovered me listening to I’m the Man.

      • dbleagle

        So convicting the cop for murdering her neighbor took me by surprise. I figured the DA would just overcharge and put up a half assed case. Maybe he did, but the jury didn’t buy it. I am grateful that the attempt to try to extend the “castle doctrine” to off duty cops entering somebody else’s house failed. Seriously, that was fucked up.

        So, an extra finger of cognac to the memory of the man who was killed and to the jurors for holding an armed government worker accountable.

      • Sir Digby

        I don’t know what to think about it, in total. I am glad for the accountability. I’m also glad that the attempts to help her cover up embarrassing activity was exposed.

        I have to admit, though, that I did buy the story of the mistaken apt. Which, if it had been truthful, should have garnered a manslaughter/negligent homicide conviction.

        Oh, that my mother didn’t still live in that city. Or, county.

      • dbleagle

        The early news reports (if accurate) show her own testimony help convict her of murder instead of manslaughter.

    • dbleagle

      Looks interesting but at 1h24m I’ll check it out tomorrow. Heading off the bed now.

      G’Night all.

      • straffinrun

        See ya.

      • Sir Digby

        ‘Night, dbl

  10. BakedPenguin

    (After reading the actual article) “Whelp, almost nobody died yet from it!”

    Thx Ozzy.

    • BakedPenguin

      “So let’s get a bunch of new recruits to take it, and see if they have medical issues.” will probably be the response,

      • Sir Digby

        Travel the world, meet new and interesting people, and be a medical guinea pig.

      • Ozymandias

        It was way worse reasoning than that as it turns out. I can’t remember what chapter that is, but in good news, I discovered my original book only had about 26 chapters, so we’re almost halfway home!

  11. hayeksplosives

    Hi, late nighters!! My bladder decided I should get out of bed for a bit.

    So here I am!

    • Sir Digby

      What Your Body is Telling You: A Guide to Puberty

      Sorry–it’s late.

      • Sir Digby

        I swear–I had no idea my avatar would look like…well, THIS when I was setting it up.

      • hayeksplosives

        Quite OK. It’s better to awake spontaneously to go to the bathroom than to have a cat magically leap directly from the floor to right atop your bladder in the morning.

        That shot is annoying!!

      • hayeksplosives

        That shit.

        Geez autocorrect, fuck off

      • Sir Digby

        Well, if kitty was aiming, it IS a shot!

      • hayeksplosives

        That is some random shit, sir.

      • Sir Digby

        The thing about the Beast is, when it yawns, it sounds just like Liam Neeson chasing a load of hens around in a barrel.

        Or, so I’ve heard….

    • straffinrun

      Starting second job today in an hour. Entertain me for 60 minutes!

      • Sir Digby

        Umm…what are you going to be doing?

      • straffinrun

        Something at The United Nations university. If I see Greta, I’ll behave properly scolded.

      • BakedPenguin

        No. Turn Japanese, dannit!

      • Sir Digby

        BP–the voyeur we deserve.

      • BakedPenguin

        argh. The only thing worse than drunkenness is sobriety. Naturally, I blame everyone else here.

  12. hayeksplosives

    Belated thanks to dbleagle and SD for their kind words above.

  13. Sir Digby

    ?

    You’re most welcome, M’Lady!

    • hayeksplosives

      Thank you, my good sir, and unofficial Night Shift keeper of Glibs!

      • Sir Digby

        My pleasure. Thank ye for the grace of thine presence…

        /trying to practice my “Sir” talk

      • hayeksplosives

        Then I shan’t TedS your English attempt at 16th century chat.

      • Sir Digby

        Yeah…I suppose I’ll have to get both English AND Russian linguistic help from Ted.

      • Sir Digby

        Of course, if you can help, no complaints here!

      • hayeksplosives

        I can help you with your Russian, but you have to let me wear the furry hat.

      • Sir Digby

        That, uh….will NOT be a problem.

        /shlyapa…man I hate trying to transliterate Russian into English

      • Sir Digby

        Something something “Soviet roleplay” something…

      • l0b0t

        Please, please, please tell me you are familiar with the sorta Python project Ripping Yarns? Series 2, episode 3 – Roger Of The Raj go to about the 7 minute mark to see the furry hat.

  14. Sir Digby

    If any PTB are around (coughcoughSPcough), I did submit the Saturday night post for approval.

    • straffinrun

      Have they ever denied a submission of yours?

      • hayeksplosives

        I had high demand for a recipe about a year ago and submitted it with pics and it never showed up¯\_(ツ)_/¯

      • straffinrun

        Had one fall through the cracks like that. I’ve also had one that was explicitly denied. Torture porn was a bit too far it seems.

      • Sir Digby

        What–no notes? No instructions to spice it up, or, anything?

      • straffinrun

        It wasn’t well written and took a shot (in good fun) at another commenter here. So no complaints from me for not running it. I did link it in the comments a while back. No idea where or when though.

      • Sir Digby

        OK..was it torture of the person, or by this person?

      • straffinrun

        Of. Gustave read it. Maybe he remembers where I posted it.

      • BakedPenguin

        Mmm… you should resubmit, Hi-X. And I’m not just saying this because I’m afraid that SP will have me murdered and tossed into a ditch. Not at all, she is a wonderful woman, who seeks out the kindness in everyone, and if it happened that she overlooked a submission, I’m certain that she would want to rectify that, and help you create something wonderful which you could share with our great community.

        P.S.:I really don’t want to be murdered and tossed in a ditch.

      • straffinrun

        This. I bet it just got lost in the shuffle.

      • Sir Digby

        No–it’s more a warning an alert that it’s there. Never know who’s up and when. Plus, I figure it helps get the schedule fleshed out sooner.

        In other words, just trying to drive the comment count up a bit.

  15. straffinrun

    Let’s say Newton and Descartes were right and we’re living in a watchmaker’s world. He’s not gonna meddle with it as it’s working, but I bet he’s up there watching humans repeat the same mistakes and screaming, “JFC, you stupid bastards! I left hints everywhere!”

  16. Sir Digby

    I was just about to note that: First, Hayek shows up, after everyone takes a hike,

    Then, she leaves, and the others show back up…

    Thought I was in the Matrix there for a minute.

  17. hayeksplosives

    I had to summon my demons (or however that shit works)

    • Sir Digby

      ……cats?

  18. straffinrun

    Time for work. Just finished killing some time by listening to this. Haidt, being an honest broker on the left, slices through the silliness of call out culture and exposes the psychological and historical reasons for its rise. (He has an Atlantic article on it if you’re interested).

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vl8k5GxeGLk

      • Ozymandias

        I thought that article was a mealy-mouthed attempt by academics to explain the nonsense that has pervaded the academe, with all of the Robby-like “to be sures.” Not that it’s a “bad” article, but it’s continued imputation that the whole PC, micro-aggression, trigger-warning is backed by “good intentions”. For example, in examining the origins of this campus nonsense, the article states of the idea that this is simply an extension and expansion of the prior PC-movement of the 1980s:

        “That movement sought to restrict speech (specifically hate speech aimed at marginalized groups), but it also challenged the literary, philosophical, and historical canon, seeking to widen it by including more-diverse perspectives. The current movement is largely about emotional well-being.”

        BUUUULLLLLLL-SHIT!

        The current zeitgeist is nothing more than taking the work of the prior PC police and finding a way to move the ball further down the field. At its heart is the same end-goal as always: control over others. The ability to force your (political) enemies into submission. It’s just another step in the endless Progressive march through academe with the glorious end-state being elimination of Wrongthink.

        This article reminds me of what a friend was telling me regarding a convo between Milo and Jordan Peterson on one of their podcasts. Milo was essentially telling Peterson that he – Peterson – was doing great stuff, but that he was fundamentally a prisoner of the academy and trying to work from within a broken system to critique and reform that system and that it would never work.

        That’s what I feel like when I read this article. It’s an academic examination by academic people of the problems in the academe, yet the problems are always a product of uncoordinated, outside forces: like Boomer parenting in the 80s, or social media’s influence on kids, or “federal” standards in education, etc… Neither of these guys sees these problems grounded in, say, any particular group that dominates the DoE, the Executive that pushed the regulations that allows sham trials with no evidence, or dominate University staff and tenure committees, etc.

    • Gender Traitor

      Between this and the shenanigans in Hong Kong, I hereby decree that the “C-word” is triggering, and I must insist that fine ceramic tableware – plates, cups, bowls, etc. – be referred to only as “porcelain” and that the most populous nation in Asia be referred to as “That Country Out East.” (TCOE.) I trust language police everywhere will enforce this consistently on my behalf. I must never be reminded of anything unpleasant, lest i swoon.

      • UnCivilServant

        I object. We still need to discuss Chai-na

      • Gender Traitor

        I’ll consent to do so over a nice Chai-na latte…in a porcelain cup.

    • Gender Traitor

      Oh, now you’ve gone too far!

      In other news: good morning, sir!

      • Sean

        Good morning. ?

      • Gender Traitor

        You seem like a fine, upstanding man – I bow to your avatar – but I’m deeply wounded that you would propose to ban one of a gal’s few guilty pleasures.

      • Sean

        Meh, I was riffing on the obsession to ban things. I don’t actually believe in banning stuff, except maybe that pic straffin linked below.

      • straffinrun

        Big baby. She loves you.

      • Gender Traitor

        ::shudder::

      • straffinrun

        You can have it for your avatar if you want.

      • Gender Traitor

        Ummm…thanks, but no. I’ll stick with my auburn Agnes. Sincere thanks, though, for the Haidt link above. I’ve recommended The Righteous Mind to many folk and even gave a copy to a bright young friend before he went off to college.

      • straffinrun

        Cool. He’s been making the case for a while and TOS was good about spreading his message. I’m just trying to keep it alive.

  19. Fourscore

    Great informational article, Ozy. Fortunately for me, I avoided that meeting of the Goat Roper’s Convention. Sounds like some of the other Glibs were caught up in the brouhaha, however.

    The whole anthrax study/production seems like an extraordinary example of a government money laundering scheme. “We gotta do something”. Winners/losers and no recourse to those on the short end of the stick.

    Can you say “Deuce and a halfs” with a hydramatic transmission? Harlow Curtice, GM CEO, must have known someone at DOD, circa 1954, when I got my first experience.

    • Ozymandias

      Thanks, 4×20. It’s like you’re reading ahead; wait until people hear how the whole program got launched and why and how the contract got awarded!
      Brings to mind that line that “history doesn’t precisely repeat itself, but it does rhyme with the past.”

  20. DEG

    Thanks Ozy! I find this series fascinating.