Juris contemplates Jefferson and Hamilton

by | May 7, 2020 | Big Government, Books, History | 254 comments

I recently finished Jefferson and Hamilton: The Struggle for Democracy in America by Claude G. Bowers. This was published in the 1920s and I read this because it came from the library of my ex-father-in-law and was one of the books I was offered for helping deal with his estate.  It had admittedly collected quite a bit of dust waiting for me to crack it open. I’ll eventually pass this along to his grandson, as the book had been passed to Sam from another member of his family tree. My last evening’s read was accompanied by some fine Pennsylvania-style rye (Rittenhouse Bottled in Bond) with a few drops of water (well, not branch).

Reading something written in a vernacular and style that is now long out of fashion is a wonderful tonic for the sour discourse that dominates our contemporary life. The book opens with the start of the new federal government meeting in New York City (quaintly described as a bustling city of 35,000 souls where Broad Street was only paved for several blocks and then turned to mud). Bowers was a partisan historian, and mostly a journalist by trade, so he’s strong on the story and characterizations if a bit slanted and weak on analysis. His companion volume to this book is Jefferson in Power, dealing with obviously enough Jefferson’s Presidency which I’ll be reading next. Bowers is perhaps better known as FDR’s ambassador to Spain (during the Spanish Civil War) and then to Chile (a post he would hold until 1955). So Bowers partisan slant was ardently Democratic, though it appears he was more Jeffersonian/Jacksonian than progressive. He also wrote one additional book, which largely serves to discredit him in many respects but is utterly understandable for who he was (and when), The Tragic Era: The Revolution after Lincoln. Wikipedia notes this book is found as part of neo-Confederate reading lists; the gist being – not woke, not in the slightest.

I’ve long been fascinated with Jefferson and Hamilton as they so fundamentally represent a stereoscopic view of the American experience. Each is such a contrast and complement to the other, both in their genius and their flaws. Each represented the others view of the best kind of man to be involved in public affairs, while they themselves contradicted their own ideal. Jefferson, the wealthy land (and slave) owner through marriage and inheritance – stands as champion of those not born to power and fortune. Hamilton, the self-made man (and so unbelievably so that Horatio Alger wouldn’t have dared to invent him) or in Jefferson’s own terms for the type, a “natural aristocrat” – is the great proponent of those born to privilege. In the case of Jefferson, his sympathy with the more common man is easier to reconcile to his support amongst them even as he was far from common. That Hamilton would be accepted socially in the circles for whom he advocated is curious indeed as they were everything he himself was not, and that would ordinarily have shut him out as a striver out of his element. This is the kind of great irony that I find so enjoyable.

In the opening half-decade of the American federal government, Hamilton was the ascendant star, and eclipsed Jefferson’s own considerable career. Nominally the Treasury Secretary, Hamilton operated more as a Prime Minister with a great tendency to direct outside of his own portfolio. This was tolerated, possibly even appreciated by Washington – if not so much by others in the Cabinet let alone the House. The Senate seems to have been, under Adams leadership, strongly slanted to Federalist policy and well content with Hamilton’s actions. The Jay Treaty was less controversial during Senate ratification then it would be when the House was obliged to enact funding to fulfill it. The Constitutional authority of the House to author spending bills was not of Hamilton’s design nor to his liking; he preferred acquiescence to debate. Allow me a brief digression to the antecedent period and the Constitutional Convention.

I was unfamiliar with Hamilton’s role in the opening of the Constitutional Convention – where he proposed a President-for-life to be elected (though subject to impeachment) as well as Senators elected for life (also subject to recall for malfeasance) and diminishment of the role of the States themselves as sovereign entities. My unfamiliarity is easily explained by how limited an influence Hamilton was – his proposal carried no weight in the rest of the Convention or structuring of the federal government. His assignment from the state of New York and been counterbalanced by two fellow delegates far more comfortable with the Articles of Confederation, and jealous of New York’s prerogatives. Ultimately they left before the final draft was produced and only Hamilton was present to sign for New York, which he did even though the plan was to him a great disappointment.

So having failed to inform the architecture of the overall government, he did his best to subvert that design while serving in it. The National Bank and the doctrine of implied powers, so utterly at odds with what had been written under the aegis of The Federalist, was Hamilton proving how vacuous his rhetoric had been in arguing against a Bill of Rights – that no federal government could possibly intrude on those rights being so limited in its power. This would of course be expressed in even worse terms as his party would craft the Alien and Sedition Acts and push the country to the brink of war with revolutionary France. If Hamilton was influential, as he was, even outside of government service (having resigned from the Treasury a little more than a year after Jefferson had left State), that would ultimately be to the detriment of the Federalists. This descent would be matched by the return of Jefferson to prominence, first as Vice President to Adams and then in the election of 1800. In the instance of the first, Hamilton’s machinations turned to ruin as Jefferson placed second in the Presidential vote which in those edenic pre-political ticket days meant he became Vice President. In another act of supreme irony, Hamilton helped secure Jefferson the Presidency in 1800 over Burr.  One of Hamilton’s great flaws is that he was always a bit too clever in political scheming. The Federalists were all but shattered as a political faction and Hamilton had only a few more years of unhappy life.

Jefferson’s administration would undo a good deal of what Hamilton had wrought, though the National Bank survived (primarily due to Albert Gallatin) for a time. However, Jefferson would himself do a rather Hamiltonian thing in the negotiation and execution of the Louisiana Purchase, and having sneered at Hamilton’s construction of “necessary and proper”, find it a useful device. Jefferson’s own native flaws would also manifest in his Presidency. But whereas over-reliance on Hamilton lead the Federalists to perdition, Jefferson built a party that didn’t so inordinately depend on himself and was able to transition to successive administrations.

Down through the years we have lived in the tension of Jefferson’s rhetoric – which inspires the best of us and all people, and his view of this land as the province of the common man – against the harsh reality that Hamilton better foresaw our future in commerce, as an international power, and with a larger, more ‘energetic’ government. It is as though you can conceive of Jefferson and Hamilton as the DNA and RNA of our body politic, inseparable and essential to the function, growth and survival of the organism. What is strange is following these respective strands and discerning amongst who and how they manifest.

The Civil War would have some interesting inversions of the respective themes. It would be the common man of the North that Hamilton would have had little use for that would carry the Federal cause to victory; under the leadership of the most common of men, not some greats of refined breeding and wealth. The radical Republicans would’ve been generally repugnant to Hamilton, yet they held to his view of federal supremacy.  Lincoln’s rhetoric very clearly tended to Jefferson, particularly in the Gettysburg address. The South would eschew Jeffersonian equality in favor of the property interests and quasi-aristocracy more characteristic of Hamilton. These were not the Democrats of Jefferson (slave owner though he was).  Further, finer threads of interest could be teased out, but the key point being that although considered nearly Manichean in their conflicting vision in life, their legacies twisted across American life in interesting and unpredictable ways.

The modern Democratic party has transformed into something far more familiar to Hamilton than Jefferson – political elite and bureaucratic expertise is nothing but a modernized nobless obligé, barely tinged at all by Jefferson’s words. It eschews the Jeffersonian bent that up until Wilson and FDR dominated. Progressivism is Hamiltonian to the core, as dismissive of the deplorables as Hamilton was of the mob. That Progressivism was once fairly Republican is no shock – the Republican party arose as a Federal cause. It was only as the Jeffersonian hold on the Democrats loosened that the Republicans at all latched onto it; though that Jeffersonian influence is far weaker in the Republicans today than it was through the Reagan years.

The tidal pull between Jefferson and Hamilton is a constant in American political culture. Even though Jeffersonian influence seems at a low now, it is all but certain that it will rise again. We can no more divorce one from their joint legacy than the other, nor unravel their enduring effects.

About The Author

juris imprudent

juris imprudent

“He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." --Winston Churchill

254 Comments

  1. Drake

    I sure hope that what has happened over the last few months will drive a lot more people to the Jeffersonian side of the divide.

    • bacon-magic

      Lot of Karen Hamilton’s out there right now.
      *dons mask so can punch authoritarians clandestinely

  2. PieInTheSky

    is it just me or is the font here somewhat different than other posts?

    • juris imprudent

      Are you agitating for conformity of font? Can’t tolerate a little diversity?

      Actually I threw the text in without that consideration; assuming if there was a standard the editorial process would catch it.

      • Ted S.

        He’s not used to posts not in Comic Sans.

  3. Suthenboy

    I hope you are correct. From what I have been reading today we more closely resemble the USSR than a country with the DNA of Hamilton and Jefferson.

    • juris imprudent

      One of the interesting things about that era of history is how strong the sentiment was toward England (at least amongst the Federalists). Hard to figure how Hamilton and others, who had actually fought in the revolution, could still be so drawn to what they had fought against. But they were, and that was the estrangement that led to the original parties (Federalist and Democratic-Republican).

      We are still living the debate of how strong the central govt should be.

      • Suthenboy

        “Their feeling toward England was strong.”
        “Hamilton and others, who had actually fought in the revolution,”

        They just thought the wrong people were in charge.

      • juris imprudent

        Not sure I’d impute quite that contemporary an attitude back on to them. You run the risk of paralleling the logic of: Jefferson was a slave-owner, ergo all he stood for was bad.

      • Suthenboy

        Attributing one’s problems to other, more powerful individuals is human nature. Failure to see the problem is the system itself if a symptom of that. The thinking goes “I would have done it differently if I were in charge.”, not “No one should have that much. power.”

        In that respect Washington is one of the most remarkable figures in history.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Yes he is. Few men have walked away from that much power.

      • Viking1865

        “No taxation without representation.”

        I think Jeffersonians, broadly speaking think “taxation” is the wicked part. For Hamiltonians, broadly speaking, it’s the “without” representation” part.

        The Constitution was in large part instituted by Hamiltonian elites to create a central taxation authority for the purposes of paying war debt and creating a Navy to protect commerce. Both of which would benefit them a lot more than would benefit the Jeffersonians. Socializing costs, privatizing profits for things like commerce protection for Yankee merchants.

      • Donation Not Taxation

        Donation not taxation.

        If you like your CARES, farm subsidies, NASA, you can keep your CARES, farm subsidies, NASA, as long as you get voluntary donations to pay fr it.

      • Raven Nation

        Hamilton was definitely an Anglophile but I think the “wrong people in charge” arguments is of limited use here.

        One of the significant catalysts to Hamilton’s approach was Shay’s Rebellion. For a lot of revolutionary veterans, the idea of rebellion against a republican government was an oxymoron (this was one reason why Madison initially opposed a Bill of Rights). Hamilton, Washington, Adams and others believed in an idea of ordered liberty coupled with virtuous rulers chosen based on votes and accomplishments. So Hamilton could easily reject an un-virtuous George III who became king and could not be removed short of a civil war while supporting an elected, virtuous George Washington who could – in the unlikely event he became despotic – be removed by non-violent constitutional means.

        For Hamilton, the convention was the opportunity to put in place an elected government of virtuous men who would do right be everyone while at the same time rejecting some of the “radical” ideas coming out in state constitutions like Pennsylvania.

        OTOH, the anti-British sentiment of the revolutionary years was one of the reasons John Adams opposed to supporting the Anglo-French Wars. He finalized his break with Hamilton and likely cost him re-election in 1800.

      • The Last American Hero

        He lost because he was a hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.

      • ruodberht

        They were, after all, English. And England, despite the depredations of that mad German monarch, had at least something of a history of paying at least lip service to rights and limitation of government power.

      • juris imprudent

        That’s a Burkean take – except of course it wasn’t really George III that was to blame for what incited the revolution, it was Parliament. Jefferson’s neat rhetorical trick was to obscure that.

      • ruodberht

        I’ll take a Burkean take!

      • Drake

        They were English. The rebelled because their rights as Englishmen had been trampled on.

      • juris imprudent

        I think that is a big part of the difference between the American and French revolutions (as well as the later Bolivarian revolutions) – that the rebellion had a conservative (in the literal sense) bent tempering the radical. The French simply didn’t have anything between exchanging one absolutist regime with another.

      • Animal

        We are. Most of the country is happy to surrender their liberty for more Free Shit.

    • PieInTheSky

      we more closely resemble the USSR – don’t be dramatic.

      • Suthenboy

        Travel restrictions. No going outside. No church allowed. No protests allowed. People rounded up and sent to ‘facilities’. The economy being crushed.

        I guess you are right, it was a bit hyperbolic.

      • PieInTheSky

        it was a bit hyperbolic. – compared to the USSR yes you were.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Its not that far off. People snitching on each other, government offering rewards for doing so, police beating people down in the streets for not following the edicts, Southen isnt that far off.

      • Suthenboy

        I forgot the ‘people snitching on each other’ one.

        Karen has always been with us.

      • Struggle is Life

        I am not so sure that Suthen’s comparison is such an extreme overstatement. Yes, the USSR was much, much more overt about their repression and the near absolute power of their regime, but we have many of the same policies in place in hidden and roundabout forms.

        As stated many times here, our system is far more fascist than communist, but:
        1.Dissent that gains any momentum in the US today is either quietly snuffed out by censorship via the megacorp media and tech platforms that are so in bed with the people who hold real power over our govt. institutions as to essentially be no different.

        2. With the fusion centers further co-opting local and state policing and the insane explosion of surveillance we’ve seen in the last 50 years we have a so-called law enforcement apparatus that puts the NKVD or KGB to shame.

        3. We have an insane level of wealth and property confiscation that is also hidden very, very well (albeit, we do seem to have some advantage in property rights still in this comparison.)

        4. When people become an immediate threat to the regime they are either murdered or put in our modern gulag system or otherwise discredited/minimized with amazing efficiency.

        5. Cops as shock troops/compliance enforcers rolling up in MRAPs and military gear/weapons to force compliance with the regime for anyone who steps out of line.

        6. Etc., etc…I’m not really awake yet and have not had coffee, but there are many more ways in which we have in place systems that are doing the same job as the Soviet system only it doesn’t appear that way on its face.

        So yeah, it looks and feels not much like the USSR but in reality we are not far off.

      • PieInTheSky

        1. Compared to commidom, just no. Some removals on youtube are nothing like not having a single source not directly controlled by government.

        2. tell me when you disappear in the night and no questions are asked at all.

        3.lol

        4.one of those things is not like the other

        5. this is nothing recent

        6. I am not sure you properly understand commie life.

      • bacon-magic

        There is a translation issue here…Americans who believe in the ideas of individualism and liberty see any restrictions of such as authoritarian/communist. I think you both are correct: it does resemble USSR to our eyes yet Pie’s assertion that we’re not close to that is true also.

      • Drake

        We aren’t there yet, but we are a lot closer than I could have ever imagined 25 years ago – and still moving in that direction.

        Before we get all the way to what you describe, there will be civil war. If the county came to put my family members in a “facility” because of the Asian flu, I would arm myself and prevent it – with lethal force if necessary.

      • PieInTheSky

        it is either close or it is not. spoiler alert: it is not.

        You may be down that road and get there in 20 to 50 years. But now? Not even close.

      • Struggle is Life

        I truly mean no offense and I am not minimizing the horrors of what the Soviet system did (and in some ways continues to) do to people. I did not live it. My understanding is limited to reading history and speaking with people I have been close to over the years who did live it.

        1. If you believe that our censorship is limited to YouTube removals, you are wrong. Again, I know that we are nowhere near the complete lock-down of information where free thoughts must be quietly whispered in the street, but when you see what is the information that percolates out and is absorbed by the masses, it is almost always pro-regime.

        2. Millions of Americans get disappeared into the night and are processed into jails and prisons for doing things the regime doesn’t approve of. Mostly we have the farcical process of putting them through the crminal justice system to do it.

        3. I don’t understand why that is just LOL?

        4. And?

        5. Of course it isn’t recent. Using order followers to force compliance is as old as human history. How is that relevant to this discussion?

        Again, I do not understand life under the Soviet system anywhere near as well as you and many others. I don’t claim to. I am saying the degree to which the US has been gradually and covertly converted into something resembling it in truth if not in appearance over the last 120 years is far beyond what most would think.

      • Drake

        Democrats when Congress and Presidency in 2024 – we’re there.

      • Struggle is Life

        @ bacon-magic Yes, I think your comment is spot on. In the Soviet system everyone knew where the power rested and how limited their liberty was. In our system very few people realize it and they claim that we are the most free people on Earth…I do come at it from an American angle where I still believe that my natural, unalienable human rights and the natural rights of everyone else are the true foundation of our republic and I see them being stripped bare.

      • Mojeaux

        Was it you? who said in the previous thread that it’s going to get ugly?

        I don’t think it’s going to get as ugly as it should. I’m seeing a Kent State type of situation where people die but nothing comes of it except a harder crackdown. Tacticool cops can be counted on to pistol whip those deplorables into shape.

      • bacon-magic

        When they start separating families it will get as ugly as he thinks. I would be willing to bet blacks will be on the frontline of this. The racial undertone alone will create pauses in the dipshits cheering the State on.

      • Mojeaux

        Yeah, I can see that. Separating black families…hooooooo boy. I wouldn’t want to be in charge of that.

      • commodious spittoon

        They won’t. They simply won’t. Simple as that. It’s like the exercise of gun control as a means of punishing rural, law-abiding gun owners rather than going after illegal possessors and strawbuyers in Chicago (as KDW points out). Involuntary separation will be used as a way to go after suburban families in California or Hasidic Jews in New York. It’ll never be seen in black communities.

      • Mojeaux

        It’ll never be seen in black communities.

        Ohhhhhhhhhhh my bad. I totally misread that. I got it now.

      • Ownbestenemy

        It shouldnt matter the racial makeup but lets say in Ventura they separate a Jewish family, or Japanese family because of this let alone anyone else.

        The thing is they feel they have the backing of the people with the polls saying Americans want this (even if the polls are BS).

      • bacon-magic

        It shouldn’t matter- agreed. But the divisive tactics of the Progs have made it so. They will reap what they have sown. I used to just think this was on the horizon…now it’s looking like it will be on our doorstep soon.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        Memorial day. If things aren’t on a rocket trajectory back to normal by then, there will be sporadic instances of violence, and not just the “idiot shoots other idiot, journalo finds way to connect it to covid” kind.

      • Suthenboy

        All teasing aside what I said is that we MORE CLOSELY RESEMBLE, not we are just like them. I am reluctant to disagree too strongly with Pie as he has more first hand knowledge than I do.

        I still stand by it. This is not the country I grew up in. The things I see going on now are things I remember hearing about the Soviets, things we Americans sneered at and told ourselves it could never happen here.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        Yep, “could never happen here” has been soundly debunked.

        This feels like early Leninism to me. We’re not to the killing part yet, but the rhetorical layout has been set, and the path to “salvation” has been laid. The ugly part comes when we don’t all tra-la-la down the yellow brick road in lockstep.

        I’ll admit that I’m perplexed by the lack of a strongman in all of this. Trump isn’t leading the descent, and there’s no one governor who has stolen the entire limelight. All of this coordination is being orchestrated… From where? I don’t know.

      • Suthenboy

        I dont want to go down conspiracy theory blvd but since 2016 it is hard to come up with conspiracy theories that are crazier than the conspiracies we know to be true.

        I dont know who either but I bet Nancy Pelosi does.

      • Drake

        Sure seems like the Dem Governors and some of the big city mayors are emulating the Chinese response. Perhaps since they share so much ideology with ChiComs, putting the boot to the peasants and bourgeoisie is just the natural reaction they all share.

        Weird how the Swedes had a more ethnic approach (we trust each other) than the U.S. or most of Europe.

      • Mojeaux

        Yanno, maybe it’s all a confluence serendipity.

        All the disparate factors are right, the climate is perfect, a goodly number of people are appropriately brainwashed, and Karens are everywhere.

        All conditions are perfect and it just…happens.

      • Incentives Matter

        Yeah, these phenomena strike me as a variant of “emergent order”; perhaps we could call it “emergent direction.” People on all sides of the issues are responding to and altering their behaviour in the light of what they observe their fellow-travelers and opponents doing. Convergence — rather than hilarity — ensues.

        In some ways, this might make our problems worse, since it looks like “consensus” to too many participants.

      • l0b0t

        I think you are on the right track, Mojeaux. This seems very much like the spontaneous order that I so often admire being turned to evil.

      • Drake

        Do they need a strongman? We live in an oligarchy. The “elites” are a very tight-knit group that includes all mainstream media, all national Democrats, most national Republicans, almost all of academia, and every high-ranking career bureaucrat. Trump is a monkey wrench thrown into the machine. He can expose some of it but will never have the power to change it.

      • juris imprudent

        Likewise, it was all elites in the 1st Congress and Washington Administration. The factions formed within the confines of that elite congregation. In that sense, we still live with that with our “establishment” (or plural if you prefer, one for each party).

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        They don’t need a strongman, but initial success usually devolves into petty squabbles without one.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        The feds have the states by the nose.

        In order to truly reform, you’d have to repeal the 17th and allow the states to print their own money. Right now, the states are wholly dependent on the feds for budget support.

      • Drake

        Illinois currency would be a good substitute during a toilet paper shortage.

    • invisible finger

      I’ve been watching interviews with Thomas Sowell lately. These run the gamut of time – from William F Buckley’s Firing Line to present day. One of the things I’ve concluded is that people try to write history far too quickly.

      Twelve years ago Sowell was asked why capitalist reforms in the USSR/Russia failed while they succeeded in China. Sowell’s answer was short and uninteresting, but it got me to thinking.

      The Russians of the 1980’s were the collateral borrowed against by the Bolsheviks decades earlier; Americans alive today are the collateral borrowed against 50 years ago. You can call that capitalism or you can call it socialism, but the only acceptable solution to the vast majority of people alive today is to continue borrowing against future generations. Putting a different name on the same bad product doesn’t make the product any better.

      Perhaps the perceived-success of China from 1990-on is simply the same thing – judging today’s output of borrowed money before tomorrow’s generation gets stuck with the bill.

      • Bill Door

        This is an interesting thought. I am going to copy your reply and mull it over some more. I think you (through Sowell) are on to something.

        Years ago I was in a finance class that was one of those big auditorium classes. The instructor asked a student from China what he thought about the topic being discussed (I don’t remember what it was exactly), but I remember his response being that China claimed to be socialist in pursuit of “pure” communism. To me, it looks the same. Perhaps the label is just that.

      • Bill Door

        To finish my thought, I think you are correct regarding passing the bill on to the next generation, ad nauseum.

      • Don Escaped Australians

        Americans alive today are the collateral borrowed against 50 years ago

        NTTAWWI, but even without resources and freedom, the USA would still have been the best economy of any sort in 1946. Borrowing for the war was a serious burden, but the silver lining was that there was little competition to speak of in the entire world for two decades.

        The greatest minds of that time in Japan were designing motorcycles; the greatest German minds of that time were Shanghaied off to Moscow and Washington. Even at 55, I could gain 100 yards a game in the NFL if there were only four guys allowed to play defense.

  4. leon

    Very Nicely done. I enjoy these write ups on great books, and about great people.

    • Plinker762

      I second this comment. I too found it very good.

  5. Mojeaux

    Juris, I will read and digest in a bit.

    You said something in a comment about how they were still drawn to the crown in spite of having fought against it. I suspect you might like this: America’s Forgotten History by an amateur historian. He starts way way way back long before the Revolution to the feuds between different clans in southern England as to the divide amongst us that still goes on. We just don’t realize it.

    • juris imprudent

      The echo of the Puritan-Cavalier is definitely heard in our Civil War, the North being that Calvinist, industrious ‘elect’ and the decadent, Anglican pseudo-aristocracy of the South.

      • bacon-magic

        So you’re a Confederate? 😉

      • juris imprudent

        Family branches both north and south. The more colorful one is southern of course.

      • bacon-magic

        My great grandfather was drafted right off the potato boat for the North.

      • Mojeaux

        Anglican pseudo-aristocracy of the South

        If you listen carefully, an upper-crust Southern accent is very close to RP English.

      • BakedPenguin

        Even more OT: Episcopalianism / Anglicanism = Catholicism – the pope.

        When I was doing wedding videos, I went to an Anglican church, and was amazed at how closely it seemed to mirror my Catholic upbringing. If I ever go back to Jesus, i’ll be an Episcopalian. Basically the same ceremony, less child rape.

      • Naptown Bill

        More ceremony, sometimes. My wife’s family is very Catholic and mine is nominally Episcopalian (not sure there’s another kind, really) and the main differences seem to be in how old the church is and how “contemporary” the service is, particularly in music choice. The Episcopalians are a hell of a lot more traditional than the Catholic services I’ve seen.

      • WTF

        Because Henry VIII was a Catholic at heart, he just didn’t like the Pope telling him he couldn’t do what he wanted Re: his marriage.

      • Mojeaux

        ^^^ Beat me to it.

      • Don Escaped Australians

        My English is ancient. We’ve been hiding amongst the hills for 300 years with little need to accommodate other dialects.

        I abhor aristocracy on philosophical and practical/historical grounds, but, 200 years ago, I don’t think my forebears would have. To them the colonies were freeing, low-cost zones where a nobody could become landed . . . they would have hardly heard the guns and definitely not much cared for the trifles that folks were dying for in Boston.

        https://erenow.net/common/fourbritishfolkwaysinamerica1989/113.php

      • Bill Door

        My ancestry came to Virginia in the 1650s. We can’t find a lot of information on them during the 1760s through the mid-1780s leading us to wonder if they were quite entrenched as Torrie sympathizers. They headed further south after the revolution,

      • Chipwooder

        This was very true in the Virginia I grew up in. High society FFV types in Richmond often sounded English if you weren’t listening to them too closely. You don’t hear that accent very often around here anymore, except among the elderly.

      • Naptown Bill

        True dat. There’s a lot of overlap and I think it’s why the “Lost Cause” is such a powerful cultural artifact. As a matter of fact, my ancestors on my father’s side were Royalists who left England after the English Civil War. They sold the family estates and went to Virginia, migrating south and west over generations to wind up in Alabama by the early 1800s. Needless to say, they fought for the Confederacy.

      • UnCivilServant

        Curse of the Confederate Cavaliers?

      • leon

        My ancestors were part of the Jacobite rebellion and had their clan made illegal.

      • WTF

        Hey, mine too! Clan Cameron, here.

      • Mojeaux

        Some of my people were here in the 1600s. Mom’s side, but I forget which branch. I am actually a member of DAR, but years ago, when I was all, “woooo!” I talked to the gazillion-year-old chapter president and she said that month’s topic was china patterns, I noped right the hell out.

      • WTF

        But you could have eventually become chapter president and introduced this month’s topic of cuntes and cods.

      • DEG

        I read that as “cuntes and coeds.”

      • Mojeaux

        LOL

        I’m trying to get that book proofread so I can actually publish it, but I have never had a harder time reading my own stuff than right now. I don’t like the book. I don’t like the place I was in when I wrote it. I’m on an anti-anxiety med that completely kills my creativity (but my other productivity is da bomb–if I hadn’t taken on so much work). And I just don’t have the passion for it that I did. That book was an escape and it served its purpose, but now I’m just…blurgh. I need to get it done just so I can get it off my plate.

      • DEG

        Hang in there.

      • Incentives Matter

        Life is filled with missed opportunities.

        Alas.

      • Naptown Bill

        That’s funny, I had a similar experience with folks from the MacNaghten clan club thing, the club of Americans who are at least somewhat related to the MacNaghten clan. I ran across them at a highland games and got on their newsletter since my maternal grandmother is a MacNaghten and next thing I know I’m getting hand-addressed envelopes with newsletters and invitations to parades and so forth from a little old lady who is as nice as she can be and has a lot of time on her hands. I have not attended any official functions.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        My father’s family goes back to the early 1700’s here in the states (excluding the native Americans in the tree).

        They were about as low as you could get on the totem pole for Europeans. Probably indentured, fled to the mountains when they could and mixed with other races. Real hillfolk.

        I can lay claim to some preachers and some murderers as my ancestors on my father’s side, but that’s about as good as it gets.

      • Naptown Bill

        A friend of mine’s mother takes great pride in being descended from Irish horse thieves. Family legend is that they were wanted in Ireland and hopped a boat to America to escape hanging. They’ve since toned down the horse thievery, but every now and again you get the sense that his mom’s maybe one margarita away from hotwiring a Corvette and haulin’ ass to Mexico.

      • Chipwooder

        Three quarters of my family were fairly recent immigrants (Irish, Italian, and German), arriving in the 1870s or later. The fourth, my dad’s mother’s family, goes way, way back. One branch of her family tree goes back almost to the founding of Jamestown – he was on the Sea Venture, which was supposed to land there in 1609. The ship was wrecked in a storm at Bermuda, where they stayed for a year while they rebuilt the wreck into two smaller ships which continued to Jamestown. It was Shakespeare’s inspiration for The Tempest. Others arrived as an indentured servant in 1638 Isle of Wight VA and a religious group seeking sanctuary in 1745 South Carolina (which may have been either German or French, it’s a bit of a mystery).

        It was with sadness that I discovered my South Carolina ancestors were loyalists who fought on the other side during the Revolution. They didn’t flee to Canada like many loyalists, though. Had one from the North Carolina branch who was in the Continental Army but deserted at Valley Forge. He was smart enough to go back in 1782 though, which seems to have absolved him enough to get land in Georgia as a form of a pension in the 1820s. His brother’s pension application was denied, for reasons I don’t know. Another branch of the family served the Continental Army, but not as a solider. The men in his family were hatters, and he supplied hats.

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      Sowell’s books on race and culture are a great overview of that dynamic. Basically, you could map antebellum American regional cultures to specific areas in Britain.

      • Mojeaux

        You really have to read that book. It’s truly fascinating and he has an engaging voice.

      • Suthenboy

        That is true of most of every place east of the Mississippi. Less so as you move west as the immigrants were more varied in culture so the cultures less concentrated, assimilating more. By the time you hit the pacific the phenomena exists but in smaller pockets and involves natives and immigrants coming from across the Pacific instead of the Atlantic.

      • Don Escaped Australians

        I know what you mean

        but there sure are a lot of Fredericksburgs and North Plattes and Neu Bransfelds and Bismarks and Lindstroms out there that leads me to guess this is simply an international, timeless trend of folks sticking together.

        Luckily, when you hop off I-35 in West for a dozen kolaches, you don’t hafta order in Czech . . . but you could.

    • BakedPenguin

      Zombie grandma Justice gets payback!

  6. bacon-magic

    Good read Juris.
    Sooooo Burr was saving us from Federalism? cnq

    • leon

      He was a little late.

  7. Spudalicious

    Great write up! Thank you.

  8. DEG

    Lincoln, Civil War…. shots fired!

    On a serious note, very nice write-up.

  9. leon

    Wikipedia notes this book is found as part of neo-Confederate reading lists; the gist being – not woke, not in the slightest.

    Thanks Wikipedia. Geeze i hate the slant that gets creeped into wikipedia articles. Not because i despise the opinions, (i usually do) but because they like to pose as “The unbiased truth”. It’s the same reason why i hate CNN more than MSNBC or DU.

    Also go let me know what is on the Tankie reading lists.

    • BakedPenguin

      Second. The BS “we don’t take sides” front is infuriating.

    • Viking1865

      The Civil War is, along with WWII, impossible to discuss as a complex historical event. It’s Good vs Bad and there’s not any kind of nuance or complexity allowed. Lincoln and FDR are leaders above reproach, period.

      • Naptown Bill

        It’s a real shame, too, because both are fascinating on their own merits. So much nuance and important truths get lost when the entire subject is dumbed down to “Nazis are bad!” or “Racist Southerners and Slavery!” Never mind the interesting characters on all sides.

      • juris imprudent

        I’ve taken to pointing out that Stalin was more of a foe of Hitler than FDR, although slightly less than Churchill. So just saying “I hate Nazis” doesn’t really put you purely in distinguished company. Particularly effective against those who idolize FDR, hate Churchill and view Stalin as just an unfortunate glitch in socialism.

      • Naptown Bill

        FDR doesn’t seem to have had a serious problem with Fascism in general, not given his core policy achievements at least. If Japan had either sunk *all* of the Pacific fleet or come to some peaceful alternative for raw materials prior then the US likely never enters the war. For that matter, if Hitler doesn’t invade Poland the war never starts in the first place and Fascist parties become fixtures on the political scenes of European and American nations. Before WW2 broke out, Fascist parties weren’t taboo as they are now and represented a nationalist, almost wholesome alternative to Bolshevism. Which is to say that the people who hate Nazis really hard on Twitter would probably not have given them a second thought in the 20s and 30s. Shit, some of them might even *be* Nazis.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        FDR absolutely had fascist leanings. A lot of DC did.

        It’s even evident in the architecture (neo-classical) and the sculptures, see Man Controlling Trade for an example.

      • Viking1865

        It’s a lot more comforting to think the fascism was just militarism and racism, but in terms of political theory and economic policy, the US government of today has a lot more common with fascism than a republic.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        The New Deal explicitly rejected individualism and free markets for a fascist/corporatist economy.

        Hence why leftists are so hellbent on defining fascism as a “right” philosophy and inclusive of racism, anti-Semitism, etc… Their economic programs, when not full-on communist, are fascist.

      • Mojeaux

        Hence why leftists are so hellbent on defining fascism as a “right” philosophy and inclusive of racism, anti-Semitism, etc… Their economic programs, when not full-on communist, are fascist.

        Do most leftists even know that?

        I know that I (naively) give people the benefit of the doubt, but it seems to me there are a whole lot of idiot/ignorant leftists who aren’t driven by ideology but by envy.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Most do not.

        But there are plenty of intellectuals that do and lie thru their teeth to set the narrative.

        Roosevelt’s first inaugural address during the Depression included this gem:

        “If we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline, because it makes possible a leadership which aims at a larger good. I assume unhesitatingly the leadership of this great army.… I shall ask the Congress for the one remaining instrument to meet the crisis — broad executive power to wage a war against the emergency, as great as the power that would be given to me if we were in fact invaded by a foreign foe.”

      • Viking1865

        “I know that I (naively) give people the benefit of the doubt, but it seems to me there are a whole lot of idiot/ignorant leftists who aren’t driven by ideology but by envy.”

        Well yeah they’re just gobbling the fruit of a poison tree that was planted decades ago.

        The “fascism=extreme capitalism” line is just Stalinist propaganda that was picked up by the commies in academia over 50 years ago. At this point it’s just accepted doctrine, it’s not something people actually think about.

        40s Stalinist propaganda becomes academic papers in the 50s becomes primary school textbooks in the 60s.

        Hell, you could make a legit argument that the Jew hatred was the fly in the soup, and that many people supporting the Nazis were doing so in spite of the Anti-Semitism, not because of it.

        Old age pensions. Infrastructure modernization. Land reform. Breaking up big businesses. Confiscation of war profits. A modern education system. Health improvement programs. Abolition of child labor.

        Hitler was basically Theodore Roosevelt with Jew hatred.

      • BakedPenguin

        Yep.

  10. BakedPenguin

    So why is Hamilton on the $10 bill, while Jefferson only gets the $2? I blame you, juris…

    • PieInTheSky

      why the fuck is there a 2 dollar bill?

      • PieInTheSky

        I mean I don’t get the 1 dollar bill myself outside of making it rain

      • Spudalicious

        Because a penny used to be worth something.

      • UnCivilServant

        For transactions between 1 and 5 dollars more than the highest common denomination.

      • BakedPenguin

        Because some stuff costs $2.

        Seriously, though, it was just a boondoggle for the bicentennial. (1776-1976)

        But if you want to go there, why is there a 1 leu note? You’d need 6 of them just to do your wash.

      • Drake

        I don’t think we’ve printed them since 1976 (the bicentennial).

      • robc

        For tricking strippers?

      • kinnath

        There was a time when $1, $2, and $5 bills had the purchasing power of today’s $10, $20, and $50.

      • kinnath

        More recently, the feds wanted to print two-dollar bills and then dump the one-dollar bill for one-dollar coins.

        They were less that successful in achieving that goal.

      • Mojeaux

        I liked the $1 coin. At the time, I was riding the bus to work (because I liked stress-free transportation, not because I had to). The $1 was super efficient. I don’t know. It was just something that worked for me.

      • Drake

        #metoo

      • BakedPenguin

        I liked the $1 coin.

        Eisenhower FTW! Or did you mean Sacajawea?

      • Mojeaux

        Sacajawea.

        I just spent the last half dollar I had since it was worth…*drumroll please*…50c.

      • DEG

        The Sacajawea dollar looks like a Disney token and not a coin.

      • Mojeaux

        It’s very heavy. I could never stick my hand in my purse and mistake an arcade token for a Sacajawea or vice versa.

        I just liked it. I don’t know why.

      • BakedPenguin

        DEG: at least it’s an “A” ticket ride…

      • UnCivilServant

        Coins are less convenient than bills for everyday use.

      • Suthenboy

        But they are heavy and full of magic so they feel. good in the hand.

      • UnCivilServant

        Oh they’re great for keeping is storage vessels and playing around with, but if I’m going shopping, it’s easier to carry bills.

      • Naptown Bill

        I like it. It lets me pretend it’s real money made of a precious metal and not a Chucky Cheese token.

      • Suthenboy

        “not a Chucky cheese token”

        Have you seen the price of brass lately?

      • kinnath

        I’ve traveled to Moscow when smallest denomination was worth about 3 cents US.

        And I’ve traveled to London when the largest coin (2 lb sterling) was worth about $3.50 US.

        Paper money is easier to deal with, unless you are in an environment when credits cards basically are unusable for 90% of transactions and you are carrying around wads of bills.

      • UnCivilServant

        Would you prefer wads of bills or buckets of coins?

      • BakedPenguin

        UCS: Yes.

      • Mojeaux

        The need for coins has largely gone away with smart phones and apps now. No pay telephones. No coin-operated parking meters. Vending machines that take cards. I haven’t been to a laundromat in forever; are they still coin operated? The coin-operated one in the hotel I was staying at 2 years ago doesn’t count.

      • UnCivilServant

        I’ve been to a laundromat once a road trip – they still use quarters, but most of the quarters don’t leave the building. People feed the coin despensor bills, then stuff ungodly numbers of quarters into the machines.

      • kinnath

        Depends on the environment and the nature of your most common transaction.

        Back when public transportation required cash money and vending machines were everywhere, coins were really convenient. Small paper bills were pretty much useless.

        Now, inflation has made coins useless, and card-readers have made paper bills much less convenient.

        If the vending machines at work would take dollar-coins, I would keep a lot more change on hand than I do now.

      • Incentives Matter

        I haven’t been to a laundromat in forever; are they still coin operated?

        The tourist one we used in Venice last October was, though it also had a “full-service” desk if that was what you’d prefer. We ended up opting for the full-service for other non-budget reasons (it also took credit cards).

      • l0b0t

        Mojeaux, every laundromat I’ve been into in NYC uses magnetic stripe cards for the machines. You purchase a card (usually free) and just reload as needed. Some places have an ATM style kiosk where the customer inserts the card, then loads it cash or credit/debit card. Some places the cashier must load the money onto the card.

      • Drake

        When I was in the UK in the 80’s I liked ordering a beer, throwing down a coin and getting change.

      • PieInTheSky

        there was a time when axes were made of stone. it is in the past. ans the future I suppose.

      • Spudalicious

        And that’s bureaucracy in action.

      • Mojeaux

        Largely a novelty, but it spends as well as 2 $1 bills.

    • juris imprudent

      Because Hamilton was the first Secty of the Treasury, duh! Jackson is the real clinker in the whole thing.

    • UnCivilServant

      Unanimous decision… The 9th Circus really does bridge the ideological divides.

    • leon

      “[T]he appeals panel departed so drastically from the principle of party presentation as to constitute an abuse of discretion,” Ginsburg wrote, later stating that “a court is not hidebound by the precise arguments of counsel, but the Ninth Circuit’s radical transformation of this case goes well beyond the pale.”

      Seems like if they are abusing the discretion they should be removed.

      • Suthenboy

        It’s called impeachment. That is the job of the House….Pelosi’s house.

        I cant remember if removal of lesser officers than the SC and POTUS require trials in the Senate.
        Once upon a time I would have cautioned against going down that road with too much vigor but the end of that road (ideological conformity of one of the independent branches) appears to have already been arrived at. Maybe it is time to take off the gloves.

      • leon

        Maybe it is time to take off the gloves.

        Lights UCS signal.

      • robc

        Yes.

    • Suthenboy

      Now do ‘rulings that contravene specified powers explicitly granted to the chief executive’.

  11. Mojeaux

    OT: XY is no longer allowed to touch the lawnmowing equipment or my tools. I mowed a bit of the lawn myself (because I like doing that) (or thought I did) (no, I really do like mowing the lawn) and I am ashamed of my performance.

    It could be I was wearing Birks on soft ground. I’ll put my boots on for the next section.

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      The last couple times I mowed (riding mower), I held my (3yo) daughter in my lap and would make a dramatic slow climb up the hill to the back of the house, and come to a near stop at the peak before flipping it back around and gunning it down to the ravine. The closest she can get to a roller coaster at this age. She screams at the top of her lungs each time and giggles the whole way back up.

      I don’t imagine Birks being comfortable to mow in. Is it a self propelled mower or one where you provide the motive force?

      • Mojeaux

        Rear-wheel drive, but I forgot I had it (first time with that mower) for half the section–the most difficult, natch.

        Meh, it’ll get me in shape doing something I like. I cannot STAND walking when I have nowhere to go/be. Give me a destination and a purpose for being there and I’ll walk for miles. Just “to exercise”? Ugh.

  12. leon

    Apparently Guinsberg listented to the arguments on the newest obamacare case from a hospital bed. which made me think: Should we place bets on what reasoning Roberts goes with to save it this time?

    I’m guessing it is either: The tax is there, it’s just a $0 tax, so the mandate is constiutional because it is still attatched to a tax, even if the tax is non-existent.
    Or: there’s no standing because there is no penalty (which is a double whammy of damned if you do, damned if you don’t).

  13. DEG

    Pie… your flower pictures on the last thread – Those look like tree peonies to me. I have both tree and herbaceous peonies.

    Tree peonies are bush like and don’t need to be staked or cut back. Herbaceous peonies need to be staked before they bloom or they fall over. Herbaceous peonies also need to be cut back in the fall.

    I think tree peonies are originally from China, but there are some Japanese hybrids/cultivars/varieties. The one in your picture looked like this Japanese variety.

    • Drake

      Yes – ours fall over because I can’t be bothered to stake flowers.

  14. DEG

    OT (and auto-play video): Texas Supreme Court orders release of Dallas salon owner

    The Supreme Court of Texas has ordered the release of Dallas salon owner, Shelly Luther, who was jailed for violating executive stay at home orders during the COVID-19 pandemic.

    She’s currently in isolation and protective custody at the Lew Sterrett Justice Center in Dallas.

    The jail is expected to release her Thursday afternoon.

    Texas Governor Greg Abbott modified his executive orders and eliminated confinement as a punishment for violating the mandates.

    Both Abbott and Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton voiced support for Luther on Wednesday.

    Paxton  also commended the Supreme Court’s decision, saying “The Texas Supreme Court correctly addressed Ms. Luther’s excessive punishment and unnecessary jailing. No Texan should face imprisonment for peacefully resisting an order that temporarily closed a lawful business and drastically limited their ability to provide for their family through no fault of their own.”

    • Suthenboy

      Now get that jackbooted moron Moye off of the bench.

      • Incentives Matter

        From what I’m told, that’s what your November is for.

      • Lady Z

        A fun piece of non-news.

      • DEG

        “Judge Cortez was physically assaulted by Judge Moye in Judge Cortez’s chambers,” Mandel said. “Judge Moye’s conduct is being investigated by the Sheriff’s Department.”

        Heh. Why am I not surprised?

      • leon

        Judges chambers are for Orgies, not Fighting!!! /That one Judge i wouldn’t mind pleading my case before….

      • Suthenboy

        Makes my day. They are taking him off of the bench. This is step one.

      • Lady Z

        At first I found it to be just a silly story, but now I think you’re right.

        I’m hoping they demand he apologize for disrespecting the law and his colleague in a full courtroom. That would make my day.

      • DEG

        That ship has sadly sailed. The article is dated 2009.

      • Lady Z

        Wow, is this how drugs fall out of one’s ass?

  15. commodious spittoon

    I slept well and long enough for a change so of course I woke up with neck strain.

    /not a profile in masculinity

    • Naptown Bill

      I slept for about three hours because I foolishly stayed up to finish the latest season of Bosch, then got all pissed off at how bootlickingly statist it came off, and now I’m trying not to say offensive things to coworkers who are polluting Slack with handwringing concern about all the people driving to the beach who are gonna be really sorry when their entire family dies because they just had to go to Ocean City. I mean, seriously, can we get some viking raids over here or something? Just to clear out the deadwood?

      • commodious spittoon

        The cosmo half of our country would treat them as liberators from the deplorable half of our country till they started burying axes in heads.

      • Chipwooder

        Yeah, the minute the new season started yammering about “sovereigns”, I knew it was going to get irritating.

        At least they didn’t make them white supremacists too, which I kind of felt like was a small blessing.

      • commodious spittoon

        Do they even need to say it? The only reason anyone opposes the benevolent all-encompassing embrace of the State is because they’re rabid ‘Merica For Whites Only separatists.

      • Fatty Bolger

        To the show’s credit, a couple of the main sovereign citizens were black, so it was not implied at all that they are a racist organization.

      • Fatty Bolger

        Yep, same here. I groaned when I saw that. Seems like every cop show has to have at least one story arc about Hollywood’s favorite “libertarian” bogeymen.

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      Fuck.

      As I was saying… Some good Hat n Hair material in that link.

      In seriousness, I’ve never met the guy, but he’s a friend of a friend, and he has a kid on the way, so here to hoping that it’s no worse than a case of sniffles for him.

  16. Nephilium

    For those in Ohio, looks like patio dining/drinking comes back May 15th and dining/drinking inside starting May 21st. Bars and restaurants, no distinction between them.

    • DEG

      I’m jealous.

      NH starts outdoor dining on the 18th. No word on when indoor dining starts, though I doubt it will start earlier than the 31st without more push back.

      • Nephilium

        Barbershops/Salons are part of the May 15th opening as well.

        The guidelines may cause some places to stay closed.

        /schedules a day off on May 21st.

      • DEG

        There were some complains in the public comments about the restrictions in NH putting businesses in a position that they would stay closed or go bankrupt if they try to reopen.

      • Nephilium

        The Lt. Governor was saying that this is going to be “strictly enforced” for bars and restaurants. I’m fairly certain I know of several places that will not be enforcing anything but the basic rules. That’s the kind of places I’ll be going to on those days.

      • DEG

        The local Irish pub hasn’t made a decision about whether or not they will reopen for outdoor dining. They have a small area for outdoor seating, but I think given how little food they sell (based solely on my observations while in there) I think they might stay shut.

        I found a news article where some restaurant owners say they might not reopen at all on the 18th.

    • Gender Traitor

      AND SALONS!!!!1!!1! ::frantically texts stylist::

      • DEG

        11th for us here in NH. And by appointment only. No waiting in the barbershop’s or salon’s waiting area. Gotta wait outside and be called in. Masks required. Services limited to root touch ups and hair cuts.

      • Nephilium

        Alright… the questions from the crowd are pissing me right the fuck off. “Doesn’t opening items back up mean that more Ohioans will die?”

        “If more people are wearing masks, can we open up more things?”

      • DEG

        Wow.

        I didn’t listen to all of the public comments, but I didn’t hear anything like that during what I listened to.

      • Nephilium

        I just noped the hell out when the question was along the lines of, “You and Dr. Amy had a difficult week. There were armed protests, and the action in the House to reduce your powers. Doesn’t that make your job more difficult?”

      • DEG

        Wow.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Effortless switches between bootlickers and rabid dogs.

      • Spudalicious

        I look like Christopher Lloyd in Back To The Future.

      • banginglc1

        1955 Doc or 1985 Doc?

      • Mojeaux

        You say that like it’s a bad thing.

      • banginglc1

        Are you also into long silvery flowing hair?

        /Clara

    • Ownbestenemy

      Vegas finds out today…

      • Nephilium

        Good luck man. Here’s hoping we get back to the old normal, and fuck this new normal bullshit.

      • Ownbestenemy

        My guess…Vegas (Strip and Casinos) will still be closed. Bars probably too since bast majority are gaming bars. Maybe haircuts and the likes will be opened. Who knows at this point.

  17. Mojeaux

    Why can I go to Hobby Lobby but I can’t go to the dentist, the eye doctor, or get my huge trash items picked up?

    /grump

    • JD is Unemployed

      Did Hobby Lobby ever close or have they held fast with “fuck you, we’re staying open” the whole time?

      • l0b0t

        Are they still around? The NYC locations with which I’m familiar all went out of business around 2015.

      • Mojeaux

        You can likely thank NYC regulations for that. Hobby Lobby is growing all the time, but they don’t stick around where they’re not wanted.

        Every time I go to NYC I’m kind of aghast at what I CAN’T get that is ubiquitous almost everywhere else in the country.

      • Mojeaux

        No, they couldn’t stick it out. Too much pressure and I guess they felt that wasn’t a hill they wanted to die on.

      • JD is Unemployed

        I understand why they did it I guess. Still, they were one of the major retailers who dared to speak out instead of capitulating right away and the deserves a one-handed golf clap at the very least.

      • JD is Unemployed

        Clapping and banging and yelling any minute now. My neighbors have taken to also setting off fireworks the past couple of Thursdays. It doesn’t really die down until about ten past. Nigel Lawson was right about the NHS being the closest thing the UK has to a religion.

      • JD is Unemployed

        Son of a squirrel

      • Nephilium

        In Ohio they opened, then got a letter from the government telling them they were non-essential, and then closed back up. Other craft stores stayed open.

    • Gender Traitor

      Since 5/1, I’ve been able to go to the dentist (I haven’t yet, but I COULD) but not Hobby Lobby.

      • Mojeaux

        Mind you, I LOVE Hobby Lobby, but I really need to get my kids seen.

    • Chipwooder

      Michael’s and Hobby Lobby are open here, but they have to adhere to the ludicrous requirement that no more than 10 shoppers be allowed inside at a time.

      In a 20,000 square foot store.

  18. Toxteth O’Grady

    Hope this hasn’t been mentioned yet but Toby Young has a website (lockdownsceptics.org) as well as a podcast, London Calling.

      • JD is Unemployed

        I was just thinking about TY earlier. I generally try keeping a distance from UK politics because it’s too close to home, but I respect a lot of what he says. It seems the only real motivation toward more libertarian ideas in the UK is via disillusioned lefties like him, when the proverbial scales fall from their eyes. It seems like every strain of ideology and politics in the UK just naturally tends toward authoritarian. Apparently he regularly gets dragged through shit and libeled by the left-wing press, often on twitler, and always without any understanding of what he did (or didn’t) say to prompt the sneering. The weight of negativity, resentment, and downright reductive stupidity in the UK is like nothing you could possibly imagine. Although, I think things are becoming more homogenised now; more global. The general misanthropic, smug, ironically hateful and intolerant lefty is and always has been an international phenomenon, but in the UK, it’s particularly concentrated. It’s absolutely, unshakeably stuck fast in the myopic, cult-like belief that government almighty absolutely must control people, because no matter your station in life here, there is always some outgroup that is bad that must be stopped from being bad. Any particular libertarian leanings in one group are rarely principled, and always fall prey to double standards, because the UK is a nation of defeated, cynical people who have given up on and real, good faith, principled, individualist ideals before they ever really considered them.

      • Toxteth O’Grady

        I’m trying to influence an English friend, subtly. He is a fairly independent thinker for a Graun reader, and might be becoming more easily influenced as he becomes ever more stir-crazy.

        (Re dog-owning: are you in a position to foster? You could try on ownership without having to commit for years.)

      • Toxteth O’Grady

        (or dog-walking / -sitting / volunteering, for that matter)

      • JD is Unemployed

        It’s just not feasible right now. I’ve no idea where I’m going to be living or working. I was supposed to be gone by now but the ‘rona house arrest means that everything is on hold and I don’t know when or where I’ll end up going. I’ve never really been settled anywhere. It drives me fucking crazy. I just want a forever home before I can give an animal a forever home.

      • Akira

        the UK is a nation of defeated, cynical people who have given up on and real, good faith, principled, individualist ideals before they ever really considered them.

        Which is really tragic given the long line of great liberty-oriented thinkers who came from that country.

      • JD is Unemployed

        Something about stars shining brightest in the darkest night.

      • creech

        And what happened to the Scots? These guys used to march into the German machine guns with
        bagpipers leading them. I was there less than 2 years ago and was told the farmers aren’t allowed to trim their hedgerows without government permission. I’m sure William Wallace wouldn’t stand for that crap.

  19. JD is Unemployed

    To quote The Greatest American Hero, “actually, what have have is democracy in a republic“.

    That Mr. H knew a thing or two about teaching civics class.

    • Chipwooder

      Believe it or not….

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      You and the stock market.

      • Struggle is Life

        Yep, like Wile E. Coyote holding up a sign reading, “HELP!”

    • CPRM

      And I’m guessing 30 million have still yet to receive anything. (If the rest of the country is anything like around here)

      • Nephilium

        The girlfriend got her $1,200 TrumpBux, but nothing from unemployment yet. She’s supposed to go back to work next week.

      • CPRM

        Yeah, I got my Trump Bux (TM), but nothing from unemployment yet. I used the Trump Bux (TM) to buy parts for a new computer build.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        parts for a new computer build

        That’s obviously code for hookers and blow.

  20. Drake

    DOJ Dropping Case Against Michael Flynn

    After new documents showed that the Federal Bureau of Investigation plotted to entrap ex-National Security Adviser Michael Flynn on perjury charges…

    Documents that should have been turned over to his attorneys two years ago. Anyone going to jail, disbarred, slapped on the wrist, anything?

    • Mojeaux

      *crickets*

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        We need a reckoning.

      • bacon-magic

        Communist News Network
        “We’re the good guys, no really we are, if you don’t agree we will have our Deep State buddies bully you.”

    • Struggle is Life

      Ha! Now that’s funny.

    • Chipwooder

      Comey and Brennan need to do real time. They won’t, of course.

      • Fatty Bolger

        Crazy how we ended up with a couple of “former” commies running the FBI and CIA.

      • Viking1865

        Right, that crazy McCarthy guy sure was crazy huh?

    • leon

      The guy is still ruined financially. So what if they couldn’t get him in jail. They extracted some punishment.

      • Fatty Bolger

        If the plan was to stop Flynn from digging up and exposing their slush funds and illegal activities, then it succeeded brilliantly.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        I want Flynn reimbursed for legal expenses plus punitive damages and for Trump to put him in as NSA or DNI for his second term.

        Holy shit would that be fun to watch.

      • juris imprudent

        Don’t give me reasons to vote for Trump!

      • Suthenboy

        They should be made to make him whole….personally. He might sue and get something but the people that did this will skate.

        I hope I am wrong.

      • Mojeaux

        You can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride.

  21. Unreconstructed

    CPRM’s mention of a new computer build got me thinking. It’s been a while since I built a machine from the ground up. Where do y’all go to decide what bits you need, and work together?

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      Unless you’re going to piece it together from various vendors, this is a good place to start: https://www.ibuypower.com/

    • CPRM

      I started with what processor I wanted (and could afford) then ran the specs from there.

  22. Suthenboy

    I remember saying back in 2013 or ’14 when Obumbles’ 37 major scandal was hitting that the things we knew about him would be nothing compared to what we would find out after he was out of office were nothing. I was right, and I wasn’t the only one who said it.
    I bet we still dont know the half of it. I bet there is more slimy shit he has done since he has been out.

    • Struggle is Life

      ^^ This. I know it means we’re both racists but that administration, if it ever gets an unbiased historical examination, will go down as one of the most destructive to liberty in US history. Second only to FDR, imo.

    • Akira

      I’m sure the Obamas are going to become just like the Clintons – an ex-president and his wife getting filthy rich running an influence-peddling ring under the guise of a philanthropic organization.

      • Struggle is Life

        Of course, right after M. Obama’s second term.