I planted my orchard in three phases. In the spring of 2014, I planted 14 apple trees and 4 pear trees in a 3 by 6 matrix to be trained to wires in the style of espalier. In the spring of 2015, I added 6 apple trees to one end of the orchard and 4 apple trees to the other end. These trees are also trained to wires. In the spring of 2017, I added three more apple trees in a different location, but close enough to allow bees to visit all the trees. This means that I planted a total of 31 trees. As of spring 2020, I have replanted 10 of those 31 trees. Most of those 10 trees were lost to deer and rabbit damage, and one could argue that that is my fault. I have learned a lot about protecting the trees over the last 6 years that would have been nice to know at the beginning. A couple of trees just up and died for no apparent reason. Oh well.
The bulk of what follows covers the original 18 trees and was written 5 years ago for a class that I taught.
It has been lightly edited to bring it up to date.
A properly pruned apple tree should maximize the amount of sunlight that reaches every fruit-bearing branch in the tree all the way to the center of the tree. Note that horizontal branches bear the most fruit; diagonal branches will bear some fruit; and vertical branches bear little to no fruit. The primary purpose of pruning is to strip out the vertical branches and provide the best shape of the remaining horizontal branches.
In contrast, a horizontal cordon espalier tree eliminates all growth except the central trunk and horizontal fruit-bearing branches. There is no unnecessary growth which consumes water and nutrients at the expense of fruit-bearing branches. Every branch gets optimum exposure to sunlight resulting in larger, healthier, and more-evenly ripened fruit. All the fruit is easily accessible, so there is no clawing your way through branches and limbs to pick the fruit.
Espalier training also provides more freedom in deciding where to plant trees in a confined space. Normally when planning the layout of an orchard, the first question is to determine which direction the rows of trees should go. In large commercial orchards, the rows typically run north and south. So, the fruit on the east or the west gets half a day’s worth of sunlight. On the south, the fruit gets a full day’s sunlight. On the north, the fruit gets no direct sunlight unless the tree has been properly pruned to let sunlight pass into the interior of the tree. When the trees run east-west, then only the south will get full sunlight unless the trees are adequately spaced apart. In reality, the rows can be lined up any direction so long as appropriate spacing between trees is maintained (both within rows and between rows) and the trees are properly pruned.
With espaliered trees, the issue is nearly moot so long as the appropriate row spacing is used so that the top of one espaliered tree does not cast shade on the lower cordons of the next row of trees. Note that when planting espaliered trees against walls, the rows must run mostly east-west (i.e., the rows must be on the south facing side of the wall.)
There are three points of interest when laying out the orchard. The first point is how tall you what the espaliered tree to be. This drives the second point which is how far you want the rows to be spaced apart. The third part is how far the trees should be spaced apart within the row. All of these points are influenced by how big the tree wants to get on its own. You can mercilessly prune a full-sized tree down to a small espaliered tree if you want to spend all summer doing it. But generally speaking, the modern orchardist can select from a variety of rootstocks that will limit the growth of the tree.
In my case, the majority of the apple trees were grafted onto MM.111 rootstock which is called semi-dwarf (or sometimes called semi-vigorous). This rootstock produces a tree that is about 80% the size of the tree grown on normal seedling rootstock. This means that my trees will be really quite vigorous for an espaliered training. So, I need to make sure the tree has plenty of room to grow. Since I don’t want the tree to grow taller than 6 ft or so, this means I need to let the tree grow fairly wide. Most authorities recommend planting the trees on 6- to 8-foot centers within the row. I will be planting on 10 ft centers. {we’ll come back to this topic later}
Now that we know the espaliers will be 6 ft tall, and the trees will be planted on 10 ft centers, the last remaining point is to determine row spacing. I will be planting my row running east to west along the southern face of a wooden fence that also runs east-west.
The top cordon of one tree should not cast a shadow over the lower cordons of the trees the row farther from the sun (rows to the north). The distance of the shadow from the tree casting the shadow is determine by the angle of the sun from the horizon (or from vertical, take your pick). The trees start to leaf out in April, and the leaves remain on the trees until well into late October to early November. Given the latitude of my house, we can calculate the angle of the sun throughout the year.
Using an online solar angle calculator, the sun is 24° from vertical (low in the sky) on the shortest day of the year in December. The sun is 72° from vertical (high in the sky) on the longest day of the year in June. For bud break in April, the sun is 56° from vertical, and for leaf drop in November, the sun is 32° from vertical.
So, we do a little trigonometry (hell, I’m an engineer) to calculate the angle of projection from the top of one row the bottom of the next. The wider the row spacing, the lower in the sky the sun can be before one row will cast a shadow on the foot of the row behind it. I was most interest in 6 ft, 7 ft, or 8 ft row spacing:
- At 6 ft spacing one row of trees will begin to shade the next row starting in late September which is when many varieties need full sunlight to finish ripening.
- At 7 ft spacing one row of trees will begin to shade the next row starting in mid October when the latest harvesting apples are being picked.
- At 8 ft spacing one row of trees will begin to shade the next row starting in late October to early November when all the apples should have been picked.
So, 8 ft spacing it is. The final layout of the orchard then is three rows of 6 trees in each row. The trees are planted on 10 ft centers within each row. The rows are planted 8 ft on center from each other. And the highest cordon will be set at about 6 ft from the ground.
The distance between the cordons is driven by the nature of the tree being espaliered and the intended pruning practices for the tree. Cordon spacing can range from 12 to 24 inches.
The cordons should be spaced far enough apart so that one can see through the tree to the wall or landscape behind the tree. This ensures each branch gets maximum exposure to the sun.
I have chosen to work with 4 cordons. The first is 22 inches from the ground, and the remaining wires are separated by 18 inches. Thus, the wires are at 22”, 40”, 58”, and 76” from the ground. The top wire is slightly above the desired height of 6 ft (72”), but the fruit should still be reachable with both feet on the ground.
The following pictures show the progression of my orchard from installing posts for the trellis system to the end of the first growing season.
Laying out the orchard and installing posts for the trellis system in the fall of 2013.
Wires were strung a month later on a cold late November afternoon.
Digging holes for all the trees before the shipment arrived from California.
Planting all the trees in one day. The trees arrive with bare roots.
They are wrapped in damp paper or sawdust, which will protect them during shipping.
But they need to be planted ASAP.
A month later, mulch has been spread around the trees.
The trees are leafing out, and I begin tying the central leader and branches to wires.
The trees are showing the proper shape (mostly) by the end of the 1st growing season.
So where are we now 6 years later.
Fifteen of the original 18 trees are still in the ground. One pear tree died the first year (it happens). Two were chewed up badly by deer in the 2nd winter. The deer girdled the tree (removed the bark completely around the trunk) at roughly the height of the first cordon. So I cut the trees off below where they were girdled, and new shoots started from the stump. These were trained to wires. Both trees did well the first year, but one withered died the next year. The other tree was growing out well until it was chewed to pieces by rabbits (more on that later). It succumbed to fire blight this spring.
In general, the the trees are growing very well and are very healthy. The real problem is that 10 of the original 15 trees have never produced a flower or piece of fruit. This is because the MM.111 rootstock is far too vigorous. I have pruned enormous amounts of useless green growth from the trees the last two years. These trees want to be 15 to 18 feet tall and be well established before they flower. In contrast, a two-year sapling that I planted this spring, produced a dozen flowers 3 weeks after I planted it. This is one of the big differences that the choice of rootstock can make.
I am now in a position where I have to figure out how to let the trees grow bigger while maintaining them in their current form in their current space. I think that I am going to string wires between the four established cordons and grow new branches (leaving a lot less space between the cordons than I would like). Going from 4 to 7 branches will let the trees get 75% “bigger”. Hopefully, they will believe they are well established and start producing fruit. The only other choice is to go taller, which is what I was trying to avoid in the first place when going espalier.
I had been warned during the first summer that I needed to protect the base of the trees from rabbits. During the winter, the rabbits will chew off the bark around the tree and girdle it, thus killing everything above the chewed up part of the tree. Since rabbits chew the tree close to the ground, they can girdle the tree below the graft. At that point, all you have is a rootstock that will sprout back out in the spring. So, I wrapped chicken wire around the base of all the trees. This kept the rabbits away from the trees. So after one year, everything looked good. As noted above, in 2nd winter, the deer came along and girdled two trees (above the graft so I could grow the trees back out), and chewed up the branches that I had been growing. So, I now put up a 5-foot wire fence around the orchard in the fall and take it down in the spring. The deer could jump the fence, but apparently it’s not worth the effort.
Everything was working great until the spring of 2019. I come out in the spring to do dormant pruning, and I find that most of the trees have been chewed up by rabbits (deer chew up the top of the branches and rabbits chew up the bottom of the branches). So how does a rabbit chew up a branch that is 22 inches off the ground. And look, there are three or four trees where rabbits have chewed up the branches that are 40 inches off the ground. Can you say WTF? Well, winter 2018-2019 had near record setting snow fall (50 to 55 inches of the stuff fell that winter). And there were repeated times of thaw and freeze where the top of the snow turns hard and crusty. So that winter, the rabbits walked on top of the snow and chewed on most of the branches at 22 inches off the ground and (thanks to drifting) lots of the branches that were 40 inches off the ground.
So now I have 36 inch chicken wire stretched around all the rows of apple trees. No damage over the winter of 2019-2020. Of course, it is now difficult, if not impossible, to weed around the trees, prune the lower branch, or spray the tree. So I have to take down the chicken wire and put it back up to work around the trees.
The trees are alive and growing. They look cool even if they are not producing fruit. It’s a lot of effort, and I am far from convinced that it is worth it (since I am not getting apples yet).
I will grab some photos of the orchard in the near future and follow up with another post.
Speaking of not properly anything, rate mom’s apple tree
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uoqmo9T8yYiSKXlP7VzlbhZT_q5YfB3s/view?usp=drivesdk
I’m afraid of the possibility that “apple tree” is a euphemism here.
Not the apple bottom I was expecting.
needs pruning….
It could use some pruning.
It looks like it is surrounded by other trees that are limiting light. Probably should cut those back.
there are two apricots an apple a sour cherry and an almond tree pretty close together
ok. So all of them need to be pruned back. Then they will actually produce more fruit than running wild like now.
I just planted 80 acres in pine/mixed hardwood but I am still jealous of your apple trees.
I just planted 80 acres – did you or did you exploit the working class?
If by ‘exploit’ you mean I paid them, then yes. Yes I did.
THE LANDLORDS WILL BE HANGED IN THE VERY TREES THEY PLANT
Most of those 10 trees were lost to deer and rabbit damage, and one could argue that that is my fault. – Or Trump’s
A properly pruned apple tree should maximize the amount of sunlight that reaches every fruit-bearing branch in the tree all the way to the center of the tree. Note that horizontal branches bear the most fruit; diagonal branches will bear some fruit; and vertical branches bear little to no fruit. The primary purpose of pruning is to strip out the vertical branches and provide the best shape of the remaining horizontal branches. – all this pruning let nature be.
Espalier training also provides more freedom in deciding where to plant trees in a confined space. Normally when planning the layout of an orchard, the first question is to determine which direction the rows of trees should go – that is mostly a feng shui question I would say
Ha! Classic Fleetwood Mac! Look at Danny Kirwan go – what a brilliant maniac. Too bad that Green and Kirwan were destroyed by bad LSD, mental illness, and commies.
Maybe set up some traps for the little Fuckers……
I’ve lost a couple of young trees to bucks scraping the velvet off their antlers – one was a disease-resistant elm I had high hopes for.
I am replacing another tree today that was girdled pretty low – maybe by rabbits. It was a Japanese Maple, planted last year to replace a purple plum killed by black knot disease. I now keep the wire up around my apple trees year-round and put some loose fencing around other young trees in the fall to discourage the bucks.
How dare you! #BKM
I have very much enjoyed this series. Can you recommend a good company to oder from?
I really like these folks:
https://www.cumminsnursery.com/
Alas, it looks like my two favorite varieties (Gold Rush and Sweet Sixteen) don’t bloom at the same time so I can’t use them to pollinate each other.
So you actually learned something and applied it. Awesome.
So you just need a couple more trees.
Goldrush is pollination group 4 and Sweet Sixteen is pollination group 3. So they will overlap and cross pollinate.
I guess I didn’t pay close enough attention.
I can have delicious home grown apples by the next presidential election!
So, never?
Optimism!
I’ve had good luck with the three I ordered from Raintree nursery.
I’ve used https://www.starkbros.com/ in the past
I was going to recommend Miller’s Nursery in Canandaigua, as my family has always had great success with their New York State specific stock and they had a no-questions-asked guarantee, but they’ve apparently now been purchased by Stark Bros.
All I use my apple tree for is squirrel bait.
Every year that there are apples, they pile in to get some and I cull the herd by a couple suppers with my pellet gun.
Let me guess….they eat the seeds and throw the fruit on the ground.
They gnaw up the apples pretty good too. Tomatoes are what they love to take one or two bites of and then shit can the rest. And you don’t fuck with my tomatoes.
Who wants to fuck tomatoes? That’s a rather odd fetish.
I came to apologize for not commenting on this series before. These are really good. It goes to show we’re not all guns, weed, buttsex and Mexicans.
Speak for yourself Sharpie.
I never claimed to speak for anyone else.
To be fair, it is really hard to shoot an apple off the head of a Mexican while blazed.
Isn’t the apple to make a bong with?
I came for the cycling shorts but stayed for the pineapple on deepdish
Thanks.
Well, there is also booze, tits, and ass.
Selma Hayek eating deep dish?
Selma Hayek. Yum.
Very cool. Thanks!
You are welcome.
Kinnath, these articles are absolutely fascinating. Thank you for writing them.
You are welcome.
Seconded. Fascinating, well written, and filled with useful information.
Test
https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7350692,-91.9746185,1903m/data=!3m1!1e3
Test of the targeting system?
It seems to have worked. Check out the clear cut area in the center.
I wish I could get apples to grow here. I put a few pears in there…a few as in a dozen wild pears. They make golf ball sized fruit that have almost no sugar in them but wild critters still eat them.
Suthen, the beauty of that land almost makes me tear up a little. You have a fine looking spread sir.
Thank you I0b0t. That is just one tract. The two 40 acre tracts south of the cut over are part of it also. It is quite beautiful there. Every time I go over there I stay until dark and then I have to force myself to leave.
Click the map function and you can see the Salem creek. That is the north border. The water is ice cold and as clear as the air.
You live directly between two prisons?
Don’t you remember his escaped con alert incident?
I forgot about that.
I dont live there, I just grow trees there. If it weren’t for my wife I would live there. You can stay there for a week and not see or hear a car pass on the road.
Very nice.
???? YOU LIVE IN THE 2739 YEAR FLOOD PLAIN !!!!! ????
Ackchually…..that whole cut over goes under water every few years. Most of it is so soft I had to wait for a drought year to have it cut.
My grandfather tried to have it cut in ’47 but the cutter’s equipment got stuck and it was 3 months before it dried out enough for them to get it out. The ruts are still there where their skidder sunk to the frame. As a matter of fact if you zoom in a few times and know what you are looking for you can see them on the satellite image.
My mailbox is in the 100 year flood. I sleep maybe six inches above it.
My best timber is there because that part of the branch was too wet to cut in ~1954.
Well the good news is only one wisdom tooth needs to be extracted; the bad news is lots and lots of fillings. She did manage to talk me out of yanking the lot and getting fancy dentures. I am gonna hold the line on the broken tooth, I will only accept a gold replacement. Also, thank to Hizzoner’s absurd COVID rules, cleanings can’t be carried out in a single visit (I think the limit is on time in the chair) so, back tomorrow it is.
Yikes.
Avoid getting the lot yanked if you can.
Agree on that. Modern dentistry is amazing. If they can save the tooth or the root, let them.
cleanings can’t be carried out in a single visit (I think the limit is on time in the chair)
Tell ’em you’re going to throw a brick through their window if they don’t do it one sitting, apparently there’s an exemption for people who do that sort of thing.
Wonderful series, Kinnath – my nerd spouse loves the orchard lay-out.
Thank you!
you are welcome
If I ever get all the existing trees taken out of my backyard (man, I wish I could afford that) I would totally plant a few fruit trees. Our neighbor grows peaches and they are outstanding. Gets a huge yield too, so many so that they gave us a couple dozen and still had a ton for themselves.
I’m exhausted just reading this, kinnath!
My great grandparents had a variety of orchards (almonds, mostly) on their property. It made zero financial sense, but my GGF loved them. As a matter of fact, the day he died they found him sitting against a tree next to his ladder. He had been out pruning or something, clearly didn’t feel well, so he limbed down for a breather. And died.
Lucky man.
I really enjoyed this series. Thanks for putting it together!
You are welcome.
As frustrated as I am with the progress I have had so far, I still have a dozen more varieties that I would like to plant.
That is how I want to go
When I was growing up we had 3 orange trees, a grapefruit tree and a lime tree in the backyard. Miss that.
Good writing. Thanks.
You are welcome.
Sounds very convenient for cocktails.
One thing I do really miss from San Diego was the trees from two of my neighbors that reached over the fence: lemon (year round), avocado and tangerine.
My grandparents had a couple of lime trees and coconut palms. I can remember my uncles throwing rocks at the coconuts to get them to fall.
The real reason I write this articles.
Nonsense.
Your articles are as good as any we have all written. I certainly appreciate them. If you want to see how bad it can get go back and read some of mine.
I was talking about the orchard not the articles.
There are times when it feels like I am getting in over my head. Then I remind myself that I have friends with hundreds of apple trees and other friends with thousands of grape vines. So my little orchard is just about the right size.
Ah. Ok.
It is after noon here so I am a bit tipsy.
I am drowning in muscadines here but I dont worry I pick what I can use and leave the rest to critters and I have no shortage of those.
This is what I get on my tax deductions for. “We tell you the bad decisions we made so you won’t make them!”
How will I really know if they’re bad if I don’t test for myself?
Science is all about replication of results.
Well, there *is* a replicatibility crisis, Mom… So I’m gonna need the car keys and a fifth of Jack. For Science.
Thank you, kinnath! I will never be in a place again where I can do this (heaven willing), but I can fantasize.
You are welcome.
Trump was right about inserting light !!!
But I just got my butt-hole tanned over 🙁
It’s being done by the Russians, so clearly Trump got a heads up about it from his buddy Putin last month.
Wouldn’t there be a cancer risk from UV light?
I’ll have my liver wear UV gloves ?
I would guess it wouldn’t be any worse than shining a flashlight through your hand, depending on delivery method.
Now that the next thread is up, maybe nobody will see this, but: there are three types of UV light, depending on energy — UV-A, UV-B, and UV-C. The UV-A are the least energetic and therefore safest.
1. Register KevTech LLC on Legal Zoom.
2. Hire Dem operatives as employees.
3. Start “study” proving this treatment is ineffective and dangerous.
4. Sell study results to Lancet.
5. Profit!
So, are we just pursuing a post-immune-system world?
Because I’m not sure disinfecting everything is gonna work…
So I can stop drinking fish tank cleaner?
OT: Contractor follies: I talked to three roofing contractors for estimates on my roof. Two sent me estimates pretty quickly. The third gave me a date for when I’d receive an estimate from him, and that date came and went without an estimate. So I hired one of the two.
That one is working on my house right now.
It’s been a week and a half since the date the third guy gave me for when I’d have my estimate.
Just a few minutes ago he called me to tell me was going to drop off the estimate at my house.
I told him, “I hired someone to replace my roof, and they’re working right now.”
“Uhhh….. OK”, he said.
I said, “Thanks for your time. Bye.”
I wish you no leaks
I hate roofing as much as I hate buying tires.
*The hotel I stayed in while visiting England had a copper/lead roof that was put on in the late 1700’s. I still think about that roof.
A house in my neighborhood had a slate roof. It got some minor damage in storm. They replaced the entire thing with asphalt shingles. I’m hoping there was something I didn’t know, because why would any not just repair the slate roof?
Cost?
Our church at some point had half the slate roof replaced with asphalt – cheaper option I assume. We had to replace the other half with asphalt too because the weight difference was torquing the building.
Just for fun, I compared asphalt shingles with a nice metal standing seam roof. Absurd price difference and just didn’t make sense.
I helped put a standing seam roof on my step-dad’s poll barn when I was younger. He was on a tractor bucket 14 feet in the air, handing me sheets. I was on the roof screwing them down. This was wintertime – there were snow flurries, the steel was slippery. On the last sheet, there was no good perch. I had my snow boot wedged against a protruding screw head. I slipped and started sliding down. Luckily my step dad grabbed my jacket as I went over the drip edge and hauled me into the bucket. We never told my Mom.
I also looked at a steel roof when we had our house re-roofed. $12,000 for asphalt vs $27,000 for standing seam steel. I don’t plan on being in the house long enough to break even. We went with asphalt shingles.
Just for fun, I compared asphalt shingles with a nice metal standing seam roof. Absurd price difference and just didn’t make sense.
Metal roofs last a whole lot longer. I’m not sure what the relative useful life is, but I would suspect that metal roofs are a better value. And you should that value back, theoretically, on resale.
The issue with slate roofs is that they are incredibly heavy and you may need to add structural support. Also, eventually, slates will break/fall off, and replacing them is a more skilled thing – you can’t just send your average meth addled alcoholic roofer up there to do it.
your average meth addled alcoholic roofer
You can just say “roofer”.
I put this fabulous 100-year faux slate roof on the house in Fort Worth. FirstWife got the house in the divorce, of course, but the joke’s on her: she ain’t gonna live to be 100!
So there you have it, Glibs, Personal Finance 401 checkpoint; before you spend money on something, ALWAYS ask yourself: how many guns could I buy with this money instead!
“…ALWAYS ask yourself: how many guns could I buy with this money instead!”
And just like that Don became my favorite commenter.
let’s don’t get carried away
I’m still pretty embarrassed about that quip last year about how I actually like the smell of horse shit
I happen to be a fan of the smell of horse shit myself. It smells like my youth. And freedom. And that time Daisy kicked my ass across the pen just because she could.
Fancy (“Fancy Don’t Let Me Down”) kicked me in the forehead while I was combing her belly. I came to several minutes, or maybe hours later. I haven’t been right in the head since.
Personal Finance 401 checkpoint; before you spend money on something, ALWAYS ask yourself: how many guns could I buy with this money instead!
Excellent advice.
I followed that advice. Ended up with a bunch of really expensive guns, and a retirement account with a couple of moths flying around in it…
+ 446,000,000
/ terra cotta
Get an eagleview report in addition to contractor estimates. Less than $50 and will give you exact amount of materials including ridge, starter, etc.
I had part of the roof replaced a couple weeks ago (~1,000 sq ft). I must have called 12 or 15 contractors. 6 answered the phone/returned my call and only 3 would give a quote.
The first was a large company with fancy trucks who wanted double the price of the second (father/son licensed contractor team). The third gave an initial estimate that almost half of the second contractor (father/son) team but never followed back up with a formal quote. I got a pissed off phone call later when he realized I hired someone else.
One contractor told me up front he was too busy.
The two that gave me the quote were timely: they showed up exactly when they said they would and gave me the estimate when they said they would.
We (2-unit condo) had our roof done last year – neighbor called Long Roofing – one of those multi-regional places; flags went up as soon as they insisted “all decision makers have to be present for our visit”.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/long-roofing-beltsville contains typical reviews; guys who came out didn’t know jack shit about roofing, they were just weaselly sales guys.
They were obviously pissed when I said “I have to go but [neighbor] will fill me in and we’ll decide after we get our other quotes”. Even though neighbor and I had decided in advance that we wouldn’t sign anything on the spot from those guys, they _still_ pressured her into coming down with “they said if we sign today…”.
I almost felt bad about leaving her with them, but she made the appointment before checking with me…
We lost the pinned post
Intentional. COVID-19 panic seems to be mostly over.
Trump promises Stone won’t serve prison time
I haven’t studied the Stone situation and hold no opinion of him other than he’s a nut NTTAWWI.
I have mixed feelings about the pardon. I hate complicated rules; laws should be simple because virtue isn’t figured on sliderules; but I keep coming back to an idea: the pardon should be only one per month. A president shouldn’t get to wait until his last week or until after his re-election and then go nationwide on the pardon. They should be scarce and valuable, and a president should show what he’s made of early and often.
I’d rather he pardon Stone than Flynn. Flynn needs to be acquitted.
In regards to the specifics of the Stone case, he was railroaded. The judge made the jury anonymous and let it be stacked with Democrat activists. The FBI/DOJ went completely off the rails with that early morning raid using SWAT and a CNN news team in tow, and in general the entire case was a political show trial meant to reinforce the Russia collusion case.
Stone is an asshole, but that does not excuse the government in any way for their misconduct.
“The judge made the jury anonymous and let it be stacked with Democrat activists”
LIES!!!!! A wise and Senatorially confirmed judge selected a jury filled with noble, professional, dedicated civil servants and thoughtful and passionate activists from the middle of our nation’s beautiful capital. The very heart of America.
This is what I mean when I say “The Left is never out of power” You’d have to actually try to assemble a neutral jury in DC. I think assembling a rightwing jury in DC would be borderline impossible.
There were actually anti-Klan white people in 1960 Mississippi. Good luck finding a pro-Trump jury drawn from swamp critters.
Of all the things that need to change with the American government, restricting the ability of a POTUS to pardon people would seem to be the thing that is fine just the way it is.
Stone was arrested by a swat team in the wee hours of the morning in a “surprise” raid while CNN was there for the exclusive coverage (funny that…). It was an unnecessary show of force for a non-violent accused offender of, well, I have forgotten what exactly. But he has been relatively tight with Alex Jones so obviously deserves to be jailed/unpersoned/etc.
I wonder how they would have spun it if one of the roided up FBI guys had accidentally squeezed off a shot and killed Stone or his wife.
“Stop resisting”
That’s what drop guns are for.
Going off line for the rest of the afternoon.
I will check back to see if anyone else has questions. I will answer, and you can find the answers later.
@ProfDBernstein Looting is not ‘destruction of property’. It’s stealing stuff. And the sort of organized looting seen on 5th Avenue had nothing to to with “anguish” and everything to do with seizing an opportunity to make money by stealing.
When I heard some of the rationalizations of the riots, I thought back to my father’s problems with shoplifters. It’s the same broken logic: it’s okay to steal from rich people, and rich people are anyone who has two nickels more than I do.
I keep asking my re-distributive mom: if you don’t respect property, how, after the government reapportions everything, will you defend the new “owners'” right to keep it?
The formulation the proggies love is Jean Valjean and stolen bread.
But no one ever thinks about the baker, and his family. If you steal the bread from him, how do they eat?
Duh… he’s a baker, he’s got all the bread he needs. It just comes out of the ovens.
The thing that they miss re: Jean Valjean, is that when he receives the compassion from the Priest after being released that he vows to change his life around.
Also, he follows through on those vows.
Last weekend the Home Depot where my step-mom-in-law works was looted. Despite the concrete barriers, a bunch of people rolled up in trucks, smashed the windows, grabbed what they could, and drove off. That wasn’t protesting, it was organized theft.
Thanks for the series kinnath. We have an orchard with various strains of dwarf apple, pear, peaches, and cherries.
Unfortunately, we’ve yet to enjoy any of them. There are hundreds of full-size peaches, but they look diseased. The apples stay stunted. I have hopes for the pears this year, but we’ll see.
The house we used to rent had two enormous fig trees in the yard. Even with the birds eating their fill, we still had as many figs as we could possibly eat and give away. I’d like to plant some here, but we’ll probably have escaped from VA before they’re producing.
we’ll probably have escaped from VA
Do eeeett!!
Seriously, I don’t love Dallas, but I’ve had more strangers say hi to me in a week here than in 3 years in VA. Oh, and the governor isnt trying to make me a felon for owning (before they went swimming) a few guns.
I hate to leave our little slice of paradise here, but I’m getting worried about what’s coming down the pipeline. New Jersey style gun control and taxes seem inevitable. Statewide carbon emission testing. Repeal of right to work laws. Who knows what else.
The recent prosecution of store-owners for defending their businesses from looters in certain states hammered home how bad it’s going to get. We’re on a 4 year plan to wrap up the PhD and become debt free (including hopefully the mortgage). Then we’ll be free to jump out of here.
escaped from VA
there should be an avatar for that
Maybe of Governor Klansman chasing (((us))) out.
While you elites tend your elite apple orchards, and the super elites like Suthen is planting woods on the poor native’s graves the land was stolen from, some of us just doing our poor humble veggie gardening on a plot the size of a postage stamp.
We live in a house NewWife built 15 years ago on a postage stamp; works for now, long story.
But I can’t plant far enough away from the house to clear the termite treatment.
So how’s the radish coming along?
Nearly a month ago or so we had a surprise frost that I was certain took out my tomatoes.
As it happens, Gaia has a way, and a couple of them have recovered from what I was sure was terminal frostbite.
Ill be shocked if they bloom tho.
Thanks so much for writing this series, Kinnath. My family has had orchards in rural Pennsylvania and rural New York for generations. In fact, the first house I purchased, I bought simply for the 100 year old apple orchard the property contained.
When I lived in the mountains of Northern New Mexico, we had 50 acres planted with apples, cherries, and apricots. That was also an old orchard, around 75 years old, I believe. A lot of work to keep old trees productive, but you just can’t beat the fresh fruit.
Some year I may be living someplace I can once again have an orchard of my own. Until then, I can live vicariously through yours. 🙂
@SabrinaSiddiqui NEW: GBI Special Agent Richard Dial testifies that Travis McMichael said “fucking n*****” moments after he shot and killed Ahmaud Arbery. This is according to the account of William ‘Roddie’ Bryan, one of the other men charged in Arbery’s murder.
Is this some how an admissible version of hearsay? Is there some reason why Bryan himself shouldn’t testify as to what he did or said.
Not that we want wrongthink policed: if he murdered someone, hang him for that; if he didn’t, he walks. What am I missing here?
The only it should be used for is establishment of intent. It’s thin, but relevant.
The thoughtcrime aspect is irrelevant (to us at least but not to the rest of the country).
Like the Floyd killing in MN this story just keeps getting weirder. I have no idea what to think about it.
CNN said it first on air.
*NSFW if you have sound turned up. She says those words. Live. On CNN.
At least she didn’t mix up Knicks and Lakers, that’s a fireable offense.
Just got the sales bonus spreadsheet emailed to me
not that I’m gonna spend two seconds opening it
At least its not the TPS report.
Like em or Hate em, Saggar goes on a pretty good rant here about the shifting narrative re: looters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tULvahD5ZJg
Interesting. I’ve thought about planting fruit trees somewhere in the yard. But I like to grow vegetables and I have very few areas of full sun, so I wouldn’t really want to reduce that any further. Maybe I’ll start some raspberry vines.
I did put three pepper plants in the ground yesterday; I’m excited to see how they do. I have four more sprouts that are looking pretty good and will probably get transplanted this weekend. Also approaching “graduation” to the great outdoors are: 8 kale, 4 spinach, 1 basil, and 3 parsley (I just now found out that parsley can take over a month to germinate… I’ll have to remember to start them early next year). Finally, I have about 12 green onions and 5 garlic growing in planters, and I planted 12 more garlic cloves about a week ago. Can’t wait to make my own pesto.
https://twitter.com/POTUSWarrior/status/1267511300722061312
Fucking cops are useless.
That’s bizarre. Put her larded ass in the lockup.
This is disturbing
https://twitter.com/MarlaWithALa/status/1267511783876554753
I’ve seen that before. It’s an old flyer from 2016.
The only non-enraging explanation I can come up with is that she’s the owner and trying to veer off the looters.
If so, that would be some good thinking. Even though it still may not work.
And if the property owner had slapped that fat sow silly, they undoubtedly would have arrested the owner.
My Twitter feed is full of WTFery I could post all damned day long. All I want to do is eat my lunch and be entertained and Twitter WTFery is not entertaining at the moment.
I said this years but you can’t escape the Culture War. Eventually they were going to come for you and if you were on the Wrong Side then you would get in trouble. But hey I wasn’t a redneck socon so nothing to worry about, right?
I was thinking about that today while I was running errands. “How could they cancel me if someone notices I refuse to express an opinion and presses me for one?” Well, they can get my books delisted from Amazon. I guess. Maybe? And everywhere else. Oh, but I still have my website. Webhost? I don’t know if they’d go for that. They can leave awful reviews everywhere. Paypal? I’ve been with them 20 years.
What about my formatting business? Yeah, I guess they could do that too, but I’d go back to medical “transcription” (editing), maybe take a billing course and go work outside the home (yuck), but nobody in medical transcription gives a fat rat’s ass about peon ICs.
Aside: One WTFery I saw was a video of a policeman defending a looter from someone WHILE HE WAS LOOTING.
The god damned local pols are responsible for that shit. They ought to be tarred and feathered.
Thank goodness for socially liberal modern urban cosmopolitanism.
Hasn’t paypal been getting woke?
Not Yet…
Question: Is a Jury being intimidated by the possibility of mob violence if they vote to acquit a bad thing? Or is it okay if it is for people libertarians don’t like?
Is a Jury being intimidated by the possibility of mob violence if they vote to acquit a bad thing?
Yes.
Or is it okay if it is for people libertarians don’t like?
No.
Looking at the bare beginnings of the manuscript of Cods & Cuntes II: Trebuchet Boogaloo, I found this note:
Done and done.
What role does the Hyperbole fill? Moral Narrator?
Yorick
I was Cassius in HS
I knew him well.
I’ve thought that “contributing to the delinquency of a minor” is one of those things that
you should have on your rap sheet before you meet your maker. The way things are going, I figure
I’ll manage it yet by suggesting to the kids that they judge people as individuals.
My 0.4 acres is planted with shade and flowering trees. Some of the flowering trees are fruit trees like apple and peach, but any fruit they might produce is incidental.
Lotta work digging through rocks with a pickax, but now that it’s done * it’s totally worth it.
* It’s never really done.
https://www.insidesources.com/exclusive-sununu-to-end-stay-at-home-order-june-15/; however, the Clown Prince will keep certain businesses under his wise restrictions, for theirs and our benefit.
Gov. Chris Sununu’s stay-at-home order that closed wide swaths of the New Hampshire economy to fight the spread of the coronavirus will end on June 15, multiple sources tell New Hampshire Journal.
The governor will announce the end of the lockdown at Friday’s regularly scheduled COVID-19 presser.
“The word has gone out that Friday’s press conference is one we don’t want to miss,” one source in frequent contact with the governor’s office tells NHJournal.
Sununu telegraphed his decision when he most recently renewed his executive order on May 29. “It is our hope and intention to move beyond it on June 15,” Sununu said. “Two more weeks and hopefully we can take that next step into a different look and get our summer going.”
The stay-at-home order will be replaced by advisories on best practices as the coronavirus threat remains. However, restaurants and other businesses with particular challenges serving customers in this environment will operate under guidance from Sununu’s office, sources said.
COOL LINK BRO!
COOL LINK TEXT BRO: “Some folks think the Clown Prince will graciously and magnanimously deign to end cower-in-place on June 15th; however, the Clown Prince will keep certain businesses under his wise restrictions, for theirs and our benefit. “
I was reflecting on how insane it is that Maine can’t have outside visitors until September.
Fortunately, it’s not like the Maine coast makes most of their money during the summer. Oh, wait…
Gauleiterin Mills is considering ways to allow out-of-staters in without a 14 day quarantine. Considering in a gracious and magnanimous way of course as the tourist industry should be thankful she has deigned to consider them.
Who pays attention to this shit? I haven’t paid one bit so far.
“You are ordered to….” Yeah Yeah yadayada. Whatever. Fuck off.
I haven’t changed my life one whit.
I’d promptly ignore it if I was visiting friends, but I’m thinking of all of the hotels and inns. Not sure they can be so carefree without some state shitbag showing up at their door.
I ignored the order on two trips to Sunday River Brewing.
Ok, so I’ve been studying too much lately, but how is this not
an impermissible state restraint on interstate commerce?
The FYTW Supremacy Clause
BFYTW.
On a more serious note, this article talks about quarantines as an exercise of state police power.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
“Congress shall make no law … abridging the … right of the people peaceably to assemble, ”
It is not an exercise in anything. It is a crime committed by the state.
CNBC just showed a poll among “likely voters in swing states” regarding whether they would prefer to receive a supplement to work or stay home (related to the current +$600 unemployment benefit).
Republicans – 70% preferred work incentive
Democrat – 90% preferred stay home incentive
There you go.
So the old joke ‘all of the people that died in the apartment fire were democrats’ isn’t a joke. Imagine that.
The politicians of both parties suck pretty much equally, but I have been saying it for a while now: the vast majority of the Democratic Party voters and supporters is people who only earn a living through taxation, regulation, and mandates. Its bureaucrats, teachers, contractors, welfare sponges, HR departments, academics, etc etc etc.
It’s completely fucking insane that the Republican voter has to work 2 days out of 5 and hand that over to people who hate him. It’s immoral. I don’t see how this ends peacefully. You can use rational persuasion to tell a parasite to remove their bloodsucking proboscis from the host.
I don’t see how this ends peacefully
It doesnt. The only question is whether the charade ends next week, next year, or next century
Finally, a useful pregnant.