I wrote before about one of beliefs about the welfare state, in that it cannot happen without many inherent problems.
One of my main issues with the debate on welfare is that is too often focused on very narrow aspects of the whole and becomes prone to simplistic views that sound good to people, based on each person’s ideology. I am not necessarily saying that some simple views are not correct, not everything needs to be complex. Or that these aspects should not be debated. But in the case of welfare, there are multiple facets of the problem which all need to be addressed. Off course, when it comes to politicians, what they say is not always what they mean. So we can have simple views that are not even honest.
For the left, the simplistic view is “help people” although the concept of help is never as simple as it is made out to be. The right view is “I should get to keep my money and choose whether to help”. You may agree more with one than the other, but that is not my point. The problem is the debate is framed along the lines “is it ok to tax some to help others”. The argument is not nearly that simple. It implies there are no second order effects beyond some people being taxed more or less, some receiving more or less.
Even maybe honest leftists like Joe Rogan make it sound so simple. Instead of giving corporations trillions, give the poor money to help them, and this lifts the economy as the poor start being more productive. His words were along the lines of (not an exact quote) “this is so simple why it is not done”. This implies that just pouring money in a poor area will automatically generate productivity and economic growth with no other effects. Simple, isn’t it. Just like Joe Rogan, to be fair. Also at odds with reality, in my view. But simple nonetheless.
Most libertarians do believe that one should get to keep one’s money, irrespective of the effects of welfare. But it is both incomplete and counterproductive to allow the debate to be framed solely on this point.
What I find annoyingly offensive about this “simple” claim is that it implies that no one can have an objection to this except “I don’t want to pay anything towards it”, without being painted as not caring about the “less fortunate” let us call them, or without the possibility of thinking there are better ways out of poverty. In the end, if it is so simple and clear, there cannot be arguments against the effectiveness of the claim. It must be those greedy right-winger who do not want to solve the problem. The “do handouts solve problems in the long run” part is ignored, or assumed to be automatically true.
There are many issues with the simple just give money solution. Depending on the situation, that money may not be used to improve oneself. It may generate welfare dependency – dismissed as a “right wing myth” despite the real world, it may lead to increase drug use and so on. But this is not what I want to focus on.
I want to cover a dynamic very present in Romania, which may or may not repeat in other parts of the world. I lean strongly on “probably repeats” myself, but will not make the claim.
In Romania the welfare payout is small compared to many richer European countries. But it is present and insidious. The size is not the issue. Romania is quite split between a few prosperous large cities and a lot of not so prosperous country side – with pockets of prosperous countryside here and there. And unlike most advanced countries, the rural population is pushing 50%. In Western Europe rural areas are not necessarily poor. Urban areas may be more so. In Romania, villages and small towns can be dirt poor. People still engage in what is practically subsistence agriculture, and the monetary income is basically what they get in welfare. Enough to buy a few things and hit the pub.
These areas in Romania are generally under the control of corrupt government officials. These are called, and it is not hyperbole, Local Barons. Because they control a county in the same way a baron would. You have to be on their side, they control the village mayors, the cops, the government agencies, and they can dictate what business is allowed to open in “their” county. Who gets hired. And what money they should get in bribes to allow business operation. Furthermore, they generally control the votes in the area even for national parliament.
This leads to a bad dynamic that is almost impossible to correct. The local barons or their relatives have companies that get rich off government contracts, while the population is kept obedient by the distribution of welfare – don’t act out or they cut you off and you will not be able find a job or start a business. The welfare is low, but enough to prevent outright revolt, to placate the populace. But the area is kept underdeveloped economically – you don’t want people being able to earn money so you need to keep that pesky free market at bay. As such, local tax money is not that much. So these areas depend on receiving money from the central government.
There are areas of “rulers” who realized they get more stealing a smaller percentage from a rich county than a higher percentage from a poorer one, but this takes competence, which the average baron lacks. They are mostly thugs who keep control in simple ways. There are several communes in Romania that pride themselves of zero welfare and there being plenty work for those who want it. But these are few.
This creates a two way dependency: local areas depend on money from the center to keep control, the center needs the Parliament votes controlled by the barons. And this will not change, because as long as the barons keep their counties underdeveloped – and they need to top keep control, they will need money from the center. And as long as the center needs the votes, they need the barons.
The national politicians tend to be also corrupt, so they like things this way – guaranteed votes from the barons. Also it keeps any new upstart parties limited. They may gain some limited traction in the large cities, but not so in the rural areas or smaller cities. Some tried canvasing villages, but people generally do not talk to them and vote for the baron anyway.
The barons switch allegiance to various national parties depending on which one looks better, and they generally bring the votes with them. One electoral cycle to the Social democrat party, another to the Liberal Democrat party and so on.
Off course, various forms of this are present in various places. One can claim that certain Western foreign aid keeps certain African warlords in power, for example. But it is an aspect of welfare not covered by “hand-outs only help people” part. It creates a vicious cycle of dependency and power. It creates many side effects that come with poverty and corruption. Alcoholism, violence, sexual abuse.
Some people leave the area – often the more hard working sorts. And the ones left are the ones who generally accept the situation, get by as they can, eat what they get, drink cheap booze, and try to fuck the village teenagers who don’t know any better – although you need to be ready to take a hike should a pregnancy happen. This does not mean these are all bad people, as the saying goes. But a bad system encourages this. One does not sow where one cannot reap, is an old Romanian saying. The system is certainly not created with welfare as a temporary crutch in mind, until the fracture heals. Because that would be visible – you could say look at area X, it got welfare for many people for 10 years, but now it does not anymore. But you cannot really say that in most places. They were on welfare 10 years ago and 15 years ago and there are no signs of this changing in 5 years. Another factor not addressed by proponents: let us have some metrics to see it works and if not, change things. But that is not the point, is it?
And the cost of the system is not welfare sum X recipients. It is sum X recipients + salary x worthless bureaucrat + graft for local barons family company + graft for additional useless jobs created because the baron owes some of their flunkies a sinecure. Not to mention the lost economic growth country wide due to keeping the same assholes in power.
This does, off course, not mean welfare always leads to something like this. But it is an aspect to keep in mind. Along many others, some mentioned in other posts. And I cannot see the local left bringing a solution to end such a cycle. But I am a cold hearted libertarian who does not care about poor people, unlike those kind hearted leftist who like the poor so much they constantly create more of them. Sometimes I am trying to “unbderstand” our lefty brethren, the not crazy ones, but it is quite hard when I never here them address such issues.
Taxation is theft.
There, I said it.
“Hrmm… a tax on theft…”
/taxman
Just because the source of you income is illegal doesn’t mean you’re exempt from paying income taxes on it.
Oh, no, not just a standard tax, but a surtax, and a tax on getting robbed.
“The more things change, the more”…
It’s the same everywhere, starts at the local level with zoning, licensing, permitting. Someone petty bureaucrat (redundant)…
Public Choice theory is universal and no one has figured out how to stop politicians from acting in their own interest. There is that one solution that I won’t mention.
…
…
And the money shot:
That’s pretty much it. Nock nailed it, perfectly. I’ve read nothing else on the subject as cogent and timeless as Nock.
It’s a good article, Pie. I enjoyed learning about the Romanian ”Barons.” It’s all the same everywhere, with the variations being nothing more than local flavor of the same statist dish.
In Romania social power was extinguished by the commies. Nothing left. It has started a bit growing from the ashes, but barely and with the boot of government crashing the shoots.
But the average Romanian is not really keen to help their neighbor. Or often to better and help themselves. The chief occupation is complaining about government not doing enough.
It is going to be interesting, with all the bailouts that are not the result of taxation at all, making more people dependent on government handouts.
While I don’t remember the Great Depression I heard stories from my relatives (parents) about the difficulties they faced. I do remember the rationing of WW2
and the ways most people were able to find a work around.
This time, no idea what will happen. People are resilient but not prepared.
Money printing is a regressive tax.
Invest in germanium.
My sarc-o-meter doesn’t work past midnight. Think I missed yours.
Your sarc-o-meter is from JR?
Heh. 終点です.
お疲れ様です。
Now I’m hungry for some bento.
True. Soon there will only be a need for trillion dollar coins.
Read The Grapes of Wrath for a dramatic example. Pretty horrific.
The depression never left many areas of the country. My father grew up in northwest Tennessee, one of those areas. Places where sharecropping was “the good life”. Some damage takes lifetimes to undo. Some even more.
I toured Ireland a couple of years back. Fantastic place, I highly recommend taking a BnB tour. But there are whole sections of the country that are depopulated from the great potato famine, all these years later. Ruins of churches and civic buildings where little towns once stood dot the countryside. There are even idyllic coastlines that are stunningly empty – one would think that Londoners would spend their fabulous wealth on coastal getaways. For such a tiny country, it is amazingly empty.
northwest Tennessee
county ?!?
Obion county. Union city. Back in the 70’s when I was a kid, it was still extremely poor.
Still, they managed to breed a lot of success. Robert Kirkland (of Kirkland’s stores fame) was a classmate of my dad back in the middle of the last century. He made so much money that he built the “Discovery Park of America” science museum, which is apparently amazing. It should be, since he spent $100 million on the thing.
I think there are a couple of other magnates from that era. And then there’s my dad, who helped engineer the rocket fuel for the Polaris sub-launched ICBM, Shrike anti-missile missile (blew up a few buildings doing that) and others.
Not bad for a bunch of hayseeds.
I always think of this Jerry Clower routine about “why can’t Johnny read?” when I think of those guys.
Dad carried his double barrel .410 with a .22 under to school every day. They hunted rabbits on the way to and from school. It was their main source of meat for most of his youth. Obion county was poor, and Dad was among the poor of those poor. Yet he worked his way through high school at the theater, and then worked a co-op through college and rose the ranks of corporate america as an engineer turned executive.
That history informs my sense of work ethic and what America is about. Dad was the youngest of 13 – 2 of whom died in infancy. He was the only one to go to college, one of few from his county to ever do so at the time. They moved into a house with an actual floor when he was about kindergarten age. It was near the train tracks, and “hobos” would regularly hop off trains and come to the back door asking for handouts. His mom would find something for them to eat – even though they didn’t really have enough for themselves. That’s what being a good citizen was about back then.
That informs my opinion of AOC’s proposals to provide an income and quality of life for “people who can’t work or don’t want to work”. When she talks about those proposals, I remember my dad eating squirrel stew because that’s all the meat they could get, yet managing to put himself through college at a time when you didn’t get all sorts of government assistance for such things.
Personal responsibility leading to personal success.
How very white.
That’s an interesting Clower routine.
I’ve never endured anything like what your dad did, but AOC’s “unwilling to work” bullshit makes me boil with rage when I merely think of times in my life when I was working at a shitty low-paying job that stressed me out.
Unwilling to work? Yea, I didn’t want to fucking work either, but I did it anyway. Fuck AOC and her entitlement bullshit.
The stupidest part is that there are legitimately unjust ways for people to get wealthy (getting in bed with politicians to fuck over your competitors) and ways in which people are kept down (regulations and cronyism that make it hard to start and grow a business). But just like police reform, the whole issue has been hijacked by the Marxists.
But there are whole sections of the country that are depopulated from the great potato famine, – but I assume some are rural tat are not repopulated due to urbanization. there are depopulated rural areas without a famine. Not that the famine didn’t count.
It could be that other forces caused all those towns to be abandoned. I dunno.
They do have a very different structure than we have here. Their towns are much smaller – each town has a gas station (maybe), a grocer , a butcher and a pub/hotel. And that’s it. Nothing else. There aren’t even Tasco (walmart) stores distributed throughout rural areas like we have here. And roads are tiny converted cart paths with stone walls on either side. Really an interesting area with a culture that is very closely related to the american south, while be simultaneously very different.
Good article. You described the web of corruption perfectly.
We need a (new) crime tax!
Checks Debt Clock. Yup, the kids are fucked.
Good article, Pie. Thanks for the read and thinking.
Robber Barons https://youtu.be/C2NRd36x0HE
does their cruelty sometimes sleep?
Pie, the bread picture is unfair, this close to lunch time. Probably the only reason I miss living in Europe.
I actually chose a pic of cheap shitty bread
Bread is like sex… even when it’s cheap and shitty; it’s still pretty good.
Well maybe not “shitty”.
Shitty Song. By the Doughboys. They’re from Canada. https://youtu.be/ztOmdsETPDc
Shitty sex is pretty good too if you’re German.
Rogan has all those tattoos because he’s that guy from Memento. He’ll talk to a free market guy, agree and then 15 minutes later forget what he just agreed to. “Yeah, but can’t the govt give lots of money to solve the problem?” Kind of amusing at times and irritating at others.
“Yeah, but can’t the govt give lots of money to solve the problem”
Well, since we’ve never tried that before. I mean that wasn’t real socialism and we’ve never tried that.
True, but in a way that’s good. it allows his guests to speak while he nods his head and say that’s right no matter where they are on the political spectrum. He mostly asks questions to get the guest to clarify what the guest is saying.
This is what is good about his show and other long format podcasts. They are built around “conversations” rather than spouting 8 second soundbites. People get to explain what they mean. So asking probing questions is a good thing – even if they are contradictory or don’t conform to any recognizable ideology. What makes them good is the fact that they allow long format responses.
It isn’t new – just something that has been gone for a long time. There used to be a lot of talk shows that had this sort of format, with the host not espousing any particular point of view, just having a conversation.
Even people with strong political opinions are following this format. Adam Corolla has strong conservative/libertarian views, but he doesn’t do confrontational interviews. He generally asks supportive questions of his guests and allows them time to speak before going of on his own tangential rant.
It is a much better and more informative format than the CNN/Fox/MSNBC format of 4 talking heads giving incoherent bulletpoints in quickly switching conversations entirely guided by party affiliation.
Michael Crighton called in the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect.
If I went on his show and stated that Akido was better than MMA or Jujitsu, he’d laugh at me. If I changed the subject to economics and said something equally stupid, he’d probably believe me.
So… Next Round of Stimulus. I was doubtful. I thought i had a low estimation of our Congress, but apparently they are even worse than i thought they could be.
So yeah. Fuck the GOP. They deserve to loose.
yes but if one loses the other wins and they both deserve to lose
Sadly the only people in the Lose-Lose situation are the common folk.
That’s why we need to give the uncommon more power, ’cause like Father, they know best.
Its reverse prostitution, we pay them to screw us. I guess that makes them the pimps
We’re the bottoms? I didn’t want to be the bottom!
And people are fine with it, we’ve lost it’s over.
I, for one, am doing my part by ignoring illegal “mandates” and spreading the word on this position.
Great job, Pie. I like all the new things I’m learning here.
I’ve lived my whole life in the US, but this story sounds very familiar. The names are changed but that’s it. The one difference is that here we’re stuck with the two parties and nobody switches.
The best part of the welfare state is when you run out of bread, you can always eat cake.
I prefer roast diversity consultant.
Sounds stringy and bitter.
But it is the one food that allows you to feel you are doing God’s work when you eat it.
Nah, feed them to the pigs.
Enjoyed your live blog of the presentation. Sorry you had to experience it to give the details.
I’m fairly confident that my job is in no immediate danger. I’m in the failure analysis group, which is a bunch of C-type anal-retentive pedants that are always looking for a way that something will break. At least three management levels above me decided to shit-can that presentation once the “I don’t like definitions, I prefer metaphors,” “No metrics” and “no targets” bit. The fact that it was given during the mid-year goals assessment (which have to be SMART, ‘natch) only emphasized the uselessness of it.
I’m in the failure analysis group
Should have no shortage of work, especially with your company going woke.
The danger, of course, is that someone may be naive enough to point out that wokism is contributing to failures.
+1 just caught up with it. Nicely done.
I live in fear of my company going that route. If we do, I may request some analysis from outside counsel on whether it creates a hostile workplace, and voice my objections in private to the CEO and CHRO, but that will be it, I’ve decided.
After watching the Cisco bait-and-switch massacre, no way am I sticking my neck out in public. Smile, nod, ride out the vesting on my deferred comp, and let it burn.
We have low level stuff, but nothing as bad as Not Adahn. However, I’m wondering if that will change now too.
As long as there is nothing I’m required to do other than attend – it’s their money for paying me to listen.
I’ve not seen too many straight white males ever win a hostile workplace suit. I’ve read about a few, but they are incredibly rare. At this point I don’t think I’ve read much success about out homosexual men winning such lawsuits either. I think that ship has sailed too.
We just got a voting guide sent to us from HR. No amount of goodwill toward the people in my department is going to keep me here a day beyond when my short-term bennies dry up.
voting guide? like political voting?
yep. I didn’t click deep enough into it to see what bias there is, but it had a “candidate information” tab
“And the cost of the system is not welfare sum X recipients. It is sum X recipients + salary x worthless bureaucrat + graft for local barons family company + graft for additional useless jobs created because the baron owes some of their flunkies a sinecure. Not to mention the lost economic growth country wide due to keeping the same assholes in power.”
This is very much true here. On a national level, it takes the form of departments. For example, the Department of Education. Sounds great, who could be against education! But all the bureaucrats, useless jobs, and graft take a larger and larger piece of the pie. But you dare not reduce the size of that pie, because then you’re against education, you monster!
As a “in my lifetime” compromise, I really don’t have any problem with extensive welfare spending. Nobody likes to see people suffer, and often people do through no real fault of their own (IE they acted no more irresponsibly than anyone else).
What needs to be curbed and then eliminated is the government running all this shit. They need to collect the taxes and cut the necessary checks and get the ever living fuck out of the way as much as possible. It’s the graft that really fucking kills us, not the money that eventually does actually get spent on poor people.
The Slavery Reparations Act of 2020.
This reimburses the descendants of slave owners the net present value of all the slaves that we freed by the oppressive Union government.
This is why I generally support direct welfare without micromanagement as much as possible. Yes, it can be maddening to see people abuse it, but the cost is the same or lower, and even idiots tend to make better decisions for themselves than the government ever could.
I really don’t have any problem with extensive welfare spending
I think I understand what you mean, but there are two major costs: the direct cost to the innocent who underwrite the spending and the indirect costs to everyone due to inefficient markets.
I’ll never stop pounding this drum: to pervert everything that my parents, who were born into abject poverty, relied on in a free system, to undermine their entire legacy of decades of very hard work, sacrifice, deferred gratification, and savings to prop up people without so much as a scintilla as much character and achievement leaves me cold.
I’m not gunning for anyone, and I hope I make this remark in context, but this one trick works for everyone who’s ever tried it, a total of two or three dozen people I’ve ever met. The rest can eat their cellphones and laptops for all I care.
I get it and agree, but we’re so far away from there at this point, if we could just get a stranglehold on all the graft and ‘crony capitalism,’ I think we’d still see some respectable economic growth and that might help ultimately mitigate a lot of the welfare spending.
If we get too wrapped up in the emotions of what is “fair,” I think we can lose sight of what is desirable and potentially achievable. Right now there’s areas where we spend billions and we know full well we’re getting absolutely nothing in return. Just down someones private little rat hole.
it ain’t about fair: it’s about money printer go brrrr destroying my family’s (everyone’s, your) wealth
I really don’t have any problem with extensive welfare spending – I donot don’t solve the problem.
Nobody likes to see people suffer – depends on the people. and long term, I am not sure welfare helps as I stated.
What needs to be curbed and then eliminated is the government running all this shit. – impossible. a system that can be used to buy votes and get power will be used to buy votes and get power. A system of welfare that is not a primary source of power for some is wishful thinking t its worst
That picture of bread is so beautiful, it makes me happy in my soul.
wrt charity, we should all be free to choose what and which charity to participate in.
There are several communes in Romania that pride themselves of zero welfare and there being plenty work for those who want it.
So Pie, this being the case, why don’t more people move there? Are there barriers to moving?
No. Some people do move. But many willing to work go West for more money. The rest don’t move cause they don’t want work.
I feel like there is a word for people who don’t want to work, and live off the bounty of people who do. What is it though?
There used to be a rule… oh yeah “Those who do not work will not eat.”
drunks?
Strangely some do the occasional work off the books, under the table in their region, seasonal in agriculture if they can be bothered, but nothing official or their lose their welfare.
Put in many a villages in Romania the pub is full at 11 AM on a Tuesday. I certainly don’t envy their lives or that of their children. The are often underfed, alcoholics, there is plenty violence and no hope. But more welfare is not the solution.
And not to be unfair, maybe more would work if it was available in their immediate region, but will not move or travel for it.
Also not to be unfair, it is in some places impossible to find a farm hand for decent money while the village pub is full of able bodied men.
it is a mix of scrounging and hopelessness and a few more things. it is not easy. I am not trying to say it is. But the way it is going, there is no changing it.
“but nothing official or their lose their welfare.”
The biggest corruption in that regard is the agricultural subsidies – I swear OPEC learned all its corruption from US farmers, but perhaps they learned it from the French.
US farmers can’t hold a candle to the French when it comes to squeezing the govt for subsidies.
Pretty much described the mining towns in MN of yesteryear. Maybe the same in Appalachia. Somehow unemployed miners could live and drink on the unemployment benefits. Loretta Lynn?
Well, if the alternative to working is drink and fuck the local teenagers, that’s a non-trivial argument against work.
but it’s bad quality drink
Pie, by your standards probably most Romanians consume bad quality drinks. Liked the article, I’m surprised that the rural population is so high. I’ve just checked: the share of rural population in Russia is 25%.
I am not sure I buy that number.
The Russian number or the Romanian one?
From the World Bank: Romania 46%, Russia 25%.
the russian one.
Romania… lots of people left the country without changing their residence. I doubt the population total is as high as official numbers. by this I mean people living year round in the country. SO no idea what % rural.
Something that’s considered a large village in many countries is called an urban-type settlement in Russia. I’m pretty sure their residents are put into the urban column.
Are they good quality teenagers?
We thought our democracy would keep the warlords and bandits at bay, but by looting peter to pay paul through democracy, we only legitimized them.
Once net tax recipients gained the right to vote it was all over. That’s why the founders didn’t believe in universal suffrage; you should have skin in the game.
Yep
There are three types of progs:
1. Power hungry maniacs who use the levers of power to gain and maintain power for themselves at the expense of others.
2. Naive, ill-informed types who perceive themselves as rational and decent people but who are, in reality, totally ruled by their emotions and an underlying desperate need of approval from others.
3. People who act proggy because they grow up in a bubble and don’t know any different but who might be persuadable given the right set of circumstances/education.
I find no errors or omissions here
A subset of 2 is that some want to rise to the no. 1 position. They feel they have not been recognized in spite of their hard work/strong beliefs and liberal arts ed.
Yeah, I know several of those. They have SJW degrees or are teachers, disgruntled by the fact that other people’s education is more highly valued. They went to school where they received high marks for being able to recite the mantras they were given. Then they were shocked to learn that this is not a valuable commodity in the real world.
Sorry to go OT, but the new name of the Redskins just popped up in my newsfeed.
Washington Football Team.
WTF?
Oh no WFT.
catchy. I like it. The Washington Redcoats would have been better but this works.
Will they have generic uniforms? Will the helmet just say “Team”?
Washington NFL team to use ‘WashingtonFootball Team’ for 2020 season
I’ll just call them The Cuckington Foreskins.
Or Washington Wokeskins
Washington will not have any change to its color scheme. It will still use burgundy and gold, and the logo on the helmet will be replaced by the player’s number in gold.
*facepalm*
Fans will be able to purchase “Washington Football Team” merchandise from Fanatics and NFL Shop in the coming days.
I eagerly await the sales numbers.
I sense a scam. Isn’t Washington still problematic? So they sell a bunch (not) of new merchandise, then change the name again to eliminate white racist dude’s name. More new merchandise.
I kinda like it. No one could be offended by that. It has a Euro-weenie Football Club feel.
No one could be offended
Washington Football Team. . .
Exactly. Redskins was the non-offensive part of their name.
WashingtonDistrict of
ColumbiaDistrict of Illegitimately Occupied White Devil Land Bland Derivative Sport Group
Europeans and South Americans immediately complain of cultural appropriation.
No no, that would be the Washington Futbol Club.
Dan Snyder as master troll. I’m a little impressed.
I have been hoping it is actually a troll that he lets go for a bit before telling the woke mob to fuck off.
“Our new name is ‘The Redskins’.”
BTW, Mile High Shooting Accessories didn’t actually have that ammo in stock. It was a website glitch apparently. They sent me an apologetic email and supposedly will be refunding my money.
“This does, of course, not mean welfare always leads to something like this.”
Except that there are no historical examples where it doesn’t.
Sweden used to be the poster child as the example, but now they’re the great satan because of COOTIES19.
Fuck off, you cunte.
Andy Ostroy
@AndyOstroy
Dear white folks: I know things are really tough for you right now…but you’ve had 244 yrs of total domination. But it’s a new day. You no longer get to do, say, tweet &/or joke about whatever you want. No more racist flags/statues. Just accept it… #BlackLivesMattter
Actually I will do and say as I please.
Fuckin White People, am i rite?
Which racial/ethnic group got the worst of both ends of the stick? Finally get accepted as white, only then to be lumped in with white people as the fount of evil in America?
The Jews? You’ve got proggies going full on blame (((them))).
Yes.
*orders a case of rifle ammo*
*heads to gunbot for the second time today*
I’m only 48 years old.
Of course he’s a white soy boy.
Of course. I am disabled, so I’m part of a “protected class” or whatever. But I would find it extremely insulting if someone like this went around making up battles and fighting them on my behalf. Do black people really see this stuff and think it’s great?
No, they don’t.
Of course. I am disabled, so I’m part of a “protected class” or whatever. But I would find it extremely insulting if someone like this went around making up battles and fighting them on my behalf. Do black people really see this stuff and think it’s great?
Good grief, that whole thread is a cesspool. Ban tweeter.
I had a very vivid dream of Bill Cosby being shanked in prison last night. All from a security camera’s view in the corner of a wing of the prison, and it involved him being strangled by a chain while being nutted by a knife.
Sugarfree is rubbing off on me. ?
I once had a weird dream about Bill Cosby that was in three parts like a play:
1. I was sitting on the couch in my mom’s house watching the Cosby Show
2. I was watching the Cosby Show with Bill Cosby
3. I was Bill Cosby, and I was watching the Cosby Show with another Bill Cosby
Sugarfree is rubbing off on me. ?We don’t need to hear about your sex life, bruh 😉
Wouldn’t that be SF’s sex life?
Weird would be imagining yourself in one of his monologues. Bonus if it was Natural Child Birth.
By stage 3, was everybody just saying “Cosby Cosby”?
What is the name of that wonderful movie with John Cusack and John Malkovich, anyway, that at one point has a world with nobody but John Malkovich and everybody saying “Malkovich Malkovich”? Haven’t seen it or thought about it in years, but this comment immediately brought it back. Now I want to see it again.
Being John Malkovich
Being John Malkovich? Is that the one?
One of the few movies that I liked while also hating everyone in it.
No pudding pop?
Had this conversation 35 years ago with a girlfriend. Her position was we should help the poor by giving them welfare. I stopped the car and pointed to a tar paper shack that had pigs in the yard.
“If I give that guy a million bucks today where do you think he will be in a year? Rich and living in a mansion or broke living in the same tar paper shack with pigs in the yard?”
I started driving again and she was silent for about ten miles but I could hear the wheels turning in her head…then it came out: “You are right. He will be right back where he is now.”
See most lottery winners.
Although not always. I’m aware of one large winner from a modest background who was well aware of his limitations. Somehow found a good financial advisor and they put together a full plan for living on the winnings and what to do with the estate.
Must be the exception that proves the rule.
I would like the opportunity to test my fiscal discipline.
What are the winning numbers?
I buy a ticket now and then. I rarely look to see what the jackpot is. Once I looked and noticed it was very high…. 300 or so million. Then I thought…what the fuck would I do with that? I mean, it would come in handy in certain situations but…300 million? Really?
Turned out it got up to 500M or thereabouts before some guy won. In about three years he was dead broke and in debt for tens of millions to casinos.
Sounds like he had a gambling problem before he won.
I’m too lucky, if I bought a ticket I’d probably win and my life would be destroyed. I’m happy (the government notwithstanding) now and more money would just be another problem.
I can’t buy youth, the only thing that seems to elude me.
I could buy the private island I’ve always dreamed of, and never have to deal with any assholes ever again.
Ask Epstein how owning his own island worked out
Well, he kept bringing other people there. That’s the problem. I will do no such thing.
Also, never admit to having dirt on the Clintons.
Most of the poor people I know are like this. Not 100%, but close. I’ve rarely met a poor person who isn’t making at least a few awful financial decisions, and most of them seem to have no financial logic at all.
The girlfriend’s sister and her husband are one example. He works at some factory as a temp. He’s been a temp for years making $10 per hour because in order to get hired in, you have to take a drug test, and he won’t stop smoking weed long enough to accomplish that. She drinks a $5 can of Starbucks Mocha every single day. They both smoke cigarettes, which costs God knows how much (it was almost $5 per pack when I quit in 2009). He walked out of his job recently and claimed it was out of fear of ‘Rona in the hopes of getting some benefits.
I’ve never seen any data studying this exact thing, but I’d love to see a breakdown of how many poor people smoke cigarettes, eat out frequently, play the lottery, walk off the job regularly, etc. It could be very illuminating.
Now that you mention it I am not aware of any studies either. It is probably racist to say that many people are poor because of their own behavior.
Mrs. Suthenboy used to complain about my cheapness. We cant take it with us, can we? It doesnt do any good if we cant spend it, right?
“You are forgetting about that call.”
“What call?”
“The one that comes without warning telling you someone is in jail, a baby needs surgery, or someone is in the hospital. I guarantee you that call is coming and when it does you will be glad we didn’t spend the money.”
A couple of months after that a grandchild needed surgery. I haven’t heard a word about not spending money since then.
To be fair, a lot of middle class and upper middle class people are like this too.
There’s a guy who parks his obnoxiously huge boat on our street, because he can’t fit it in his garage and can’t or does not want to pay for storing it during the week. It clearly impedes traffic even if it’s technically legal to park _cars_ there.
He cannot afford this asset, it is an unthinkably stupid financial decision and we’re in Arizona where he can’t possibly get full utility out of such a large boat (it’s clearly a boat meant for larger waterways than we have). But he figures he can ‘afford’ the monthly payments even if he has to free ride on public property to do so, and “bro, check out my boat!”
That’s not a defense of the fiscal irresponsibility of the poor, just that they tend to spend a much steeper price for it than the middle class and often having to do so having made no worse decisions in their lives than their middle class counterparts.
We stopped at the casino last week, not to play but old coffee drinkers need frequent stops. Needed a mask to enter. The place was busy, not like usual but busy for covid. Every one there had a mask on and playing the machines.
If I had 5 machines in my garage people would need appointments to play. Somehow the machines represent Easy Street but its a one way.
not easy to find, but here’s one
speaking of team names above Seattle Kraken sounds silly
not one Seattle hockey fan countering me?
When you play with fire…
Andy Ngô
@MrAndyNgo
Rioters outside the Portland federal courthouse accidentally set their comrade on fire with a flammable device. #antifa #PortlandRiots
true comrades are always, in theory, ready to sacrifice themselves for the revolution although, in practice, they would prefer to sacrifice others
Everyone’s Self Sacrifice is another persons “Let’s let that guy do it”.
This happens a lot with Molotov cocktails. Dumbass lights one up and winds up to throw it like a baseball, accidentally turns over the bottle, and ends up dousing himself in burning gasoline. Let me tell you, it’s a thousand laughs…
lousy price, but 5.56 is available
that is less than a buck per dead child. seems reasonable to me.
Buds has better than that.
I had been thinking when I move to a free state, I’d buy an AR and enjoy the 20 cent ammo all day. Now, maybe an M1 Carbine is a better idea.
Even in these trying times, 7.62×39 is under .30/per.
Someone mentioned the other day they could only find 223 and not 5.56.
So I noted a place where 5.56 was available.
Ah, as I am not currently a consumer I forget there is a difference. If I ever do drop money for an AR, it will definitely be .223 Wylde.
Or you could buy a Mini-14
I plan to hit what I aim at.
*ducks for cover*
These days, you’ll have to work pretty hard to find an AR that doesn’t have a Wylde or NATO chamber.
Last year I got the chance to chronograph two batches of ammo – both from Federal, same bullet, but one was loaded to 5.56mm NATO pressure, and one was loaded to .223 Rem. commercial pressure. The difference in my 16″ AR was about 200fps., or about 125 yards of optimum terminal effect. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s not nothing.
Unless you are having feeding problems it doesn’t make much difference. The reloading site I subscribe to doesnt have any 223 loads that shoot less then 3000 feet per second. I promise that the target can’t tell the difference between .223 and 5.56.
5.56 chamber will shoot both. Not the other way around.
What ever was cheaper is now sold out.
Both Target Sports and SGAmmo have lower prices than Bulk Ammo.
I saw some the other day at a bulk ammo site. The only one available was $1.80 per round.
Ammo prices are crazy right now.
there was a chris rock bit about stopping murder by making bullets to expensive
I bought some just last week for $0.37/round and thought I was paying out the nose for it.
I paid 45 cents a piece and was happy about it (not really, but happier this week than last).
Not as happy as you will be next week too.
When my 1911 gets out of gun jail, I’d like to try shooting it. Not so sure about doing that at $1/round though.
That’s the only thing Minute Man has in stock, and they’re only charging $0.50/round.
Covid testing is still going great. Only 62.5% of the positive results in CT were false.
Taking the 2020 censless.
Here are some example questions:
~White
Enter, for example, German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, Egyptian, etc.
~Black or African American
Enter, for example, African American, Jamaican, Haitian, Nigerian, Ethiopian, Somali, etc.
~American Indian or Alaska Native
~Enter name of enrolled or principal tribe(s), for example, Navajo Nation, Blackfeet Tribe, Mayan, Aztec, Native Village of Barrow Inupiat Traditional Government, Nome Eskimo Community, etc.
How is an Egyptian not considered an African American? Is Egypt not in Africa? Tortured logic, thy name is the 2020 Censeless.
/end rant
No category for “Brown”?
The same way white rhodesians who fled here are not african americans.
Besides, Egyptians are more arab than black.
what % coptic are they? Are they arab or north african?
Clare Carey….mmmm…
Besides, Egyptians are more arab than black.
Where’s my soap box? I feel the need to go on an un-hihn-ed, spittle flecked rant.
It should be:
[ ] Human
[ ] Non-human
Enter, for example, Neanderthal, Lizard Person, Sasquatch, etc.
Charlize Theron is an African American.
I just refused to answer; Kept clicking next until it went to the next question. They got names and ages. That’s it.
I caught my lovely wife throwing the paper letters they started sending afterwards into the bin. It’s been over a month since we got one. I expect at some point they’ll either give up or make something up.
I should have tried the clicking trick, darn it.
I’ve had an in person Census taker leave multiple notes on my door. The last thing I want to do is interact with him. Her. Whatever.
Answer unmasked, speak very loudly and cough.
That’s exactly what they will do. If the enumerator doesn’t talk to you, then he’ll just make a best guess based on your house, cars parked outside, etc.
And then all the counts from all the sources will be collated, massaged, compared to current estimates, massaged some more, and then final numbers will come out that in no way are meant to directly reflect reality.
In a world where nothing makes sense . . . . .
The ENUMERATOR will settle all the scores.
Hah, nice.
I got a few letters over the past month or two, and wouldn’t ya know it, they just got lost. Must have thrown them out with the junk mail purely by accident, gosh darnit. Haven’t heard anything else about the issue since then. What a bummer – I missed out on the opportunity to do my civic duty by spending half an hour taking an online survey. Shucks.
*rolls eyes*
House Democrats try to check Trump’s pardon powerBy MARY CLARE JALONICKAssociated PressThe Associated PressWASHINGTON
WASHINGTON (AP) — House Democrats are trying to rein in President Donald Trump’s clemency powers on Thursday as they advance legislation that would discourage pardons for friends and family and prevent presidents from pardoning themselves.
While the bills are unlikely to pass the GOP-led Senate, Democrats say a response is necessary after Trump used his clemency power to come to the aid of allies he believes have been mistreated by the justice system, including longtime confidant Roger Stone. Trump this month commuted Stone’s prison sentence for crimes related to the Russia investigation.
Legislation would be a meaningless gesture. The power to pardon is in the constitution.
and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and
Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in
Cases of Impeachment.
Maybe Holder can weigh in with his personal expertise on this one too.
But the base eats that up. I think.
It’s always posturing. The GOP does this, and so do the Dems.
Yes. How many times they did they vote to repeal Obamacare? That stopped quickly as soon as there was a chance it might actually happen.
This is why we have public schools. Eventually, soon, no one will know what a Constitution is, so they can then safely ignore it and create new laws by fiat anytime they want.
If we could dissolve the system and start again, we could do away with teachers and buildings and save a ton of money.
Here’s my plan.
Teachers would be basically on an as need basis.
At certain ages a child would be required to take a test at that level. A teacher would not be required to take the test, but any child could request one and receive tutoring. If they pass the test, they move on to the next level until all basic education levels are completed, then they would be on their own for further education and training. This would serve the needs for employers looking to vet potential employees. We would save so much money with this system that we could basically take the saving and give advanced training grants, dependent upon the student actually taking the training and PASSING the fucking exams.
All testing would be required to meet real world requirements, such as knowing what the FUCKING CONSTITUTION IS AND WHAT’S FUCKING IN IT! Along with that, the boring stuff, language skills, math, science, geography, REAL FUCKING HISTORY. You want to learn about gender studies, fine, you pay for it with the job you got by not being a fucking idiot!
That’s all. It’s a start.
I don’t think the D’s give half of a shit about the constitution. In fact I think progressivism is premised on the constitution being an impediment to their power, so something to be destroyed. They despise it.
“I don’t think the D’s give half of a shit about the constitution.”
They do, they see it as an block whatever they want to do at the moment.
Remember how they suddenly loved it again back in 2016 and how Trump was going to take it away? The moment they get power back, they’ll immediately revert back to ‘it’s an archaic old document written by white slave owners and it has no relevancy today’.
Chicago Mayor Hires Gangs To Spell Out ‘Trump Is Bad’ With Bullet Holes
Man Who Just Reads News And Social Media All Day Unsure Why He’s So Depressed
Speaking of welfare, are mask mandates racist?
If minorities can’t get state ID to vote, surely they also have troubles getting a mask. So racism, right?
Do I really want to do any research and find out that Minnesoda has a new department with a multi-million dollar budget and hundreds of employees who are dedicated to providing free masks. And the department will exist 20 years from now.
Will people be denied their right to vote in November if they want to cast a ballot without a mask?
So long as you mail in your paper ballot, you’ll be allowed to vote. Please use a number 2 pencil and don’t write too hard, in case we have to fix your mistakes. /the left
“And the department will exist
20 years from nowforever.”Glad I could provide my FIFY skills for free today.
I didn’t need any of your “man-fixing” buddy. I didn’t say it was closing up 20 years from now, I said it would still exist then.
YOU NEVER LISTEN!!!
YOU NEVER LISTEN!!!
I already have a wife, listening has been cancelled!
1.If you don’t wear a mask you can’t vote, you’ll need the mask on to take the vote card picture.
2. If you don’t complete every applicable box on the Census form you won’t be eligible for a mask card, which you’ll need to get a vote card.
Masks will be rationed, minorities will get 4 points, handicapped 3 points, woke 2 points, latinos 1 point, white 0 and Asian -1. Points will be awarded for attending seminars, day camps and having diverse friends.
I see they are trying to cancel Joe Rogan for not wanting confused teens to be pumped full of weird hormones.
He was already against guys beating up women in the ring – so obviously a hater.
Meh. this is the 10th time this year they try to cancel Joe. He keeps on trucking. He may be canceled someday but it does not seem that near. Then again many things I can’t see coming so who knows.
A lot harder to block a popular blogger than a guy with a network job.
Especially one whose persona includes the feature of not giving a shit what other people say.
Joe will be OK unless he ever apologizes.
One of the few things Joe knows for sure – backing down isn’t how you win a fight.
The lack of people who are intelligent and thoughtful in leadership and the media is destroying us.
Nobody at a national level is smart enough to simply ask the salient questions.
1. How do we know where the virus is being spread? Is it actually being spread predominantly in bars and restaurants? What about offices with loads of cubicles? What is the transmission rate there? How about factory floors?
2. What did New York do differently from the rest of the nation? Why did they get so sick, so fast and have so many people die? They are not wearing masks at rates that are at the highest nationally, nor are they shut down more than other states… why are they experiencing a decline? Could it be related to the huge spike early and the large number of deaths?
3. What ever happened in Sweden? They didn’t do anything to lock down their economy. We predicted that they would all die. Did that happen? How are they doing today? Is there anything we can learn from the examples of Sweden and New York?
4. We have spent nearly many trillions of dollars subsidizing people during the pandemic related shutdowns. Many times this amount has been lost due to the shutdowns. Could we have allocated those resources better? What if we had decided to lock down all senior centers and nursing homes, aggressively testing anyone who enters? How much would it have cost to hire healthcare guards for every such facility in the country? How much more to provide covid-protected delivery services for everyone over 65? Could we have kept the economy open for a fraction of the cost while still actually having fewer deaths?
5. In light of the questions above, could we change course now? Could we lock down the seniors and open up the economy, while still practicing handwashing, social distancing, masking, etc? Wouldn’t this path get us back to normal within a couple of months, rather than 6 months, a year or more?
Nobody in the national conversation is even smart enough to ask the first question – where is this being transmitted. Governors and Mayors are shutting down all sorts of things based on theory. Where is the data? How dangerous is a salad bar? We shut them all down. Has anyone caught covid from a salad bar? How about the gym? Those are the first to be shut down. Are they uniquely or even specially dangerous? Nobody is even questioning this stuff. And I don’t mean the “you don’t have the authority for that” kind of questions…. I mean questioning the basic mechanics of the decision making process. What are you basing your decisions on? How did you weight the various factors? They don’t even bother asking. Cuomo says “we are following the science” and everyone just leaves it at that. What science? Where? Does “the science’ you are following answer the salient questions? Or are you following some expert’s opinion and calling that science?
These are easy and obvious questions. By my reckoning, any average citizen should be asking these questions. And an expert in the field should be asking much more pointed and incisive questions. The lack of competence and curiosity by the media and the political class has completely failed us.
The lack of people who are intelligent and thoughtful in leadership and the media is destroying us. – well those are not the qualities required to get there, so why would you expect them?
This reminds me of Romanians who lamented that communism could have been better but somehow the worst people got in power, as if it was an accident not a feature of the system.
When all you want is power, the dumber people are, the better. Why make trouble by asking the sheeple hard questions that will just confuse them and postpone your rise to total power?
This doesnt have anything to do with public health. That is why they aren’t asking those questions.
They are trying to burn the country down to get rid of Trump, punish the deplorables and rebuild a communist utopia where they have total power. Those questions arent relevant to their goals.
This, they’ve finally found their golden ticket to total power and they will never let go of it now. We’ll all spend the rest of our lives quarantined at whim and subjected to every type of social experiments. It’s not going to go well, for anyone.
Well, I could’ve been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, I don’t have to be clear
If it bleeds, it leads.
listening to Joe Rogan Experience #1512 – Ben Shapiro, not a fam of benny but damn Joe is naive.
We must engineer a solution for black communities. right.
“We must engineer a solution for black communities.”
Dem cities have been doing that for 50 years. It isn’t working.
And I can’t even imagine Shapiro debating that guy, it would be a total pwn of the poor guy.
Thing is lets skip over the racism and slavery issue which allegedly makes a solution harder in the US.
Lets simplify to two components. poverty and crime. Italy could not engineer a solution for their south in decade. What would make anyone think they can engineer one now.
“Thing is lets skip over the racism and slavery issue”
See, the problem is that is not doable. If you want to do that, you are the problem. /the left
And they’re never letting go of the race card, ever, even when we’re all one homogeneous mixed race. It’s all about struggle. Someone is oppressed and we have to save them, that’s all they have.
This book is making the rounds in churches regarding charity: “When Helping Hurts.”
I remember hearing a missionary describe how a man in an African village had done some odd jobs and bought some chickens for his family. Then he and his wife sold extra eggs and were able to buy more chickens and make other improvements. Other neighbors bought the eggs and used spare time to invest in their own endeavors.
But then a Christian charity came in and started helping buy giving away chicken eggs. So the family that started the chicken farm lost their income, and other villagers observed that they didn’t need to work to get eggs.
So much for that.
Dead Aid is another book with a similar message.
When the highest paying job in your country is being an interpreter and driver for Western do gooders, that’s where your best and brightest go to work.
“that’s where your best and brightest go to work.”
Man, that is depressing.
In Stockholm, one of my fellow EE students was a Namibian guy who had worked in the copper mines and was spotted as a clever and hard worker. Great guy.
His plan was to pay his service to the company that sent him to Sweden, then to get to the US as soon as possible.
I fervently hope that we remain a country wherein talent and hard work are allowed to show themselves and be rewarded. How sad must the industrious immigrants must be when they see the graft in the US system that they’d idealized.
The most pernicious thing, to me, about the graft is the dishonesty and obfuscation of it, the sanctimonious hypocrisy.
In a corrupt Third World state, if you’re speeding, you pay the patrolman and he tears up the ticket.
In America, if you’re speeding, you go to court, where you agree to go to traffic school at your own expense, and you pay more in court costs than the Russian cop would have taken in a bribe, and you get a little lecture from the judge about the dangers of speeding and the importance of Safety On Our Shared Roads.
John Stossel covered a similar incident where an American shoe company started giving away free shoes to an African community and consequently put their local shoe factory/vendor out of business.
Businesses can’t price compete with ‘free.’
this. this this this.
this is why I don’t just drop money on any charitable cause. they need to incentivise productive behavior and disincentivize welfare whoring. Enabling poverty-linked behavior is worse than being a scrooge.
I’ve given to The Doe Fund a few times. I like how it’s all oriented towards the ultimate goal of getting the guys to live independently without welfare. Far better than just unconditional handouts.
I would donate supplies to a particular local homeless shelter because they had a policy that if you wanted to stay there, you had to clean up. Take a shower, wash your hair, put on clean clothes (which they would provide if you didn’t have any) and they would launder your old ones. They had dress clothes available, and job interviews set up with local businesses if you felt so inclined.
teach a man to fish . . . never mind
Doug Stanhope:
They say if you give a man a fish, he’ll eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish… then he has to get a fishing license. But he doesn’t have any money, so he has to get a job and enter the social security system. And he has to file taxes, and you’re gonna audit the poor son of a bitch because he’s not really good at math. You pull the IRS van up to his house and take everything. You take his velvet Elvis and his toothbrush and it all goes up for auction with the burden of proof on him because he forgot to carry the 1. All because he wanted to eat a fish, and he couldn’t even cook the fish because you need a permit for an open flame.
I’ve heard the same story but with clothing as an example. All the donated clothing from the west destroyed the local garment industries.
It was always true that my peers who bought, restored, scrounged their first cars appreciated those cars more and cared for them better than my peers who were given nicer cars by wealthy parents.
If you earned it, you know it’s true worth.
I was a teenager once, washed that clunker ’til the rust almost came off. Bought it and wrecked it with my own money but it made me proud and a better driver.
What about begging?
Because I had to beg and plead to use the family car. All sorts of rules went along with its use. If you brought it back with less gas than you took it out with, no driving for a long time.
My punk kid sister just got to take the car whenever she felt like it. And I turned out way better than she did.
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/utah-department-of-agriculture-investigates-mysterious-seeds-sent-from-china-to-tooele
THE VIRUS WAS JUST STAGE ONE!!!1!!!!111
Now the Chinese are sending seeds! what do they contain!?!
“what do they contain!?!”
The Pod Peoples.
Well, they don’t need to send it ’cause it’s already here, but for me Chinese Privet is where I could totally waver on the NAP.
Tolerating its existence is unacceptable. Planting it deliberately counts to me as a willful assault on your neighbor.
Ya’ll know what happens when you’re working and in a hurry, you misspell the word Analyst? You get Analust. You’ve been warned.
I’ll just save everyone the effort here:
STEVE SMITH HAVE ANALUST AND BY ANALUST MEAN RAPE ANALLY.
Thanks Pie.
The local barons or their relatives have companies that get rich off government contracts, while the population is kept obedient by the distribution of welfare – don’t act out or they cut you off and you will not be able find a job or start a business. The welfare is low, but enough to prevent outright revolt, to placate the populace.
Serious question: This sound like things haven’t changed since Communism. Am I right?