Association Between Vaccines and Autism: Have an Opinion Do You?

by | Oct 19, 2021 | Science | 243 comments

So now that the Covid vaccine response has opened people’s eyes a bit with some red pilling, I’m going to wade into the autism vaccine arena. People have incredibly strong feelings about this topic. Did you have a gut reaction reading the article title? If so, the propaganda campaign (for either side) has probably worked on you.

If you were ready to yell out that it’s crazy to suggest a potential link between autism and vaccines, let me ask if you’ve done your research or if you’re just parroting the MSM? I’m not saying vaccines cause autism, but I’m amazed that so many people are so damn sure that there’s no possibility to be explored. It’s become a taboo subject… much like questioning the science for masking. The coordinated response between Big Pharma and the Government over Covid should be a wakeup call to us all to do our own homework.

I’ve done mine. I’ve read hundreds if not thousands of journal articles on autism. I’ve authored articles and am currently leading an autism study being conducted across several states plus DC. Before someone throws out the appeal to authority fallacy, I’ll say that I don’t know and I am certainly not an authority. I only mention this to point out that I’ve spent years closely researching this topic and I still don’t know if there’s a link or not. How can those without the same effort make such definitive statements on this subject?

I do have a child with autism. I’m as certain as I can be that vaccines did not cause it. Why? Because my wife (a clinician who has treated hundreds of pediatric patients with autism) and I purposely delayed and modified the vaccine schedule out of caution. However, our shared best guess is that autism is currently used as an umbrella diagnosis for several different disorders that present similarly. Some cases may be genetic while others may be environmental in origin.

The Hannah Poling case set my radar off and helped launch my interest into autism research. If you haven’t read the original published case and have an opinion on this, read the case. Just read it. Then understand that this exact case is repeated with thousands, if not tens of thousands, of families every single year. A child is typically developing, receives multiple vaccine injections at once, has a bad reaction, and then suddenly regresses into autism.  It’s literally overnight and we’re talking about going from dozens or even hundreds of words to essentially becoming non-verbal. Does that not sound odd to you? Forget about the term autism. Wouldn’t you just want to know what the fuck is going on with your child? I would think so, yet we have the Las Vegas shooter aura of silence around this phenomenon that occurs following vaccination. Hannah Poling’s father, a dual MD and PhD from the Department of Neurology and Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins, has been ridiculed for writing that article. If he hadn’t stepped up to take the hit and get it published, the whole phenomenon would have simply been summed up as something in crazy parents’ heads who are looking for someone or something to blame. Here’s an excerpt:

A 19-month-old girl was born after a normal full-term pregnancy. There was no family history of autism or affective, neuromuscular, or hearing disorders. Her development was progressing well, with normal receptive and expressive language and use of prelinguistic gestures, such as pointing for joint attention. Imaginary play and social reciprocity were typical for age. She used at least 20 words and could point to five body parts on command. Several immunizations were delayed owing to frequent bouts of otitis media with fever.

 Within 48 hours after immunizations to diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis; Haemophilus influenzae B; measles, mumps, and rubella; polio; and varicella (Varivax), the patient developed a fever to 38.9°C, inconsolable crying, irritability, and lethargy and refused to walk. Four days later, the patient was waking up multiple times in the night, having episodes of opistho-tonus, and could no longer normally climb stairs. Instead, she crawled up and down the stairs. Low-grade intermittent fever was noted for the next 12 days. Ten days following immunization, the patient developed a generalized erythematous macular rash beginning in the abdomen. The patient’s pediatrician diagnosed this as due to varicella vaccination. For 3 months, the patient was irritable and increasingly less responsive verbally, after which the patient’s family noted clear autistic behaviors, such as spinning, gaze avoidance, disrupted sleep/wake cycle, and perseveration on specific television programs. All expressive language was lost by 22 months.

 Now 6 years old, our patient has been treated with vitamin supplements since 2½ years of age. Even before starting supplementation, the patient began speaking again at 23 months old and had a four-word vocabulary of “bubbles,” “ball,” “drink,” and “cracker.”

Source: Poling, J. S., Frye, R. E., Shoffner, J., & Zimmerman, A. W. (2006). Developmental regression and mitochondrial dysfunction in a child with autism. Journal of Child Neurology, 21(2), 170-172. doi:10.1177/0883073806021002140

Autism prevalence has been increasing in recent years with 1 out of 54 children diagnosed. I’ve often heard it asserted that the increase is just due to a change in diagnosis criteria, but that’s not really true. There is a substantial increase due to changes in diagnostic criteria, but this doesn’t come close to accounting for the entire increase (King & Bearman, 2009). I’ll say it again that I don’t know for sure one way or the other, but I do lean towards a percentage of the population (~2%) having a mitochondrial disorder that does not react well with an overload of vaccines. I’m guessing most Glibs may be used to older CDC schedules of around 7 doses and not realize that children are currently pumped with 28 doses by 15 months and ~40 doses by 6 years (I lost count, could be more… the below graphic notes children are currently mandated to receive 53 injections of 71 vaccine doses by age 18) . Look at how many shots 19-month-old Hannah Poling received all at once: diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis; Haemophilus influenzae B; measles, mumps, and rubella; polio; and varicella (Varivax). Most children (~98%) may be fine with this barrage of shots, but even the hypothesized reaction of just 2% with the mitochondrial disorder would be enough to send autism rates skyrocketing to the current prevalence. But don’t take my word for it, take Julie Gerberding, the 2002-2009 director of the CDC, in her own words during a CNN interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-nkD5LSIg&ab_channel=GingerTaylor

Gerberding: “My understanding is if a child has what we think is a rare-mitochondrial disorder and when children have this disease and anything that stresses them creates a situation where their cells just can’t make enough energy to keep their brains functioning normally. Now we all know that vaccines can occasionally cause fevers in kids. So if a child is immunized, got a fever, had other complications from the vaccine, and then if your predisposed with a mitochondrial disorder then it can certainly set off damage… some of the symptoms that can have characteristics of autism.”

Gupta: “…. Are we ready to say right now, as things stand, that childhood vaccines do not cause autism?”

Gerberding: My understanding is that if the child has what we think is a rare mitochondrial disorder, when children have this disease anything that stresses them causes a situation where their cells can’t make enough energy to keep their brain functioning normally. Now we all know that vaccines can occasionally cause fevers in kids, so if the child was immunized, got a fever, had other complications from the vaccine, then if you’re predisposed to the mitochondrial disorder, it can certainly set off some damage. Some of the symptoms can be symptoms that have characteristics of autism.”

I mean come on. I get the hesitation to say that vaccines can cause autism, but that’s exactly what the CDC director is saying here. I’m not there myself. Just because a CDC director says so, doesn’t make it true. But we’re really going to immediately dismiss it as a wacko conspiracy theory when you have the head of the CDC making statements like the above in bold?  If this is truly the case, there has been a systematic harm perpetrated by the United States government for decades that may be unparalleled in human history in terms of the number of children injured.

Gerberding: “What we can say absolutely for sure is that we don’t really understand the causes of autism. We have a long way to go to get the bottom of this. But [15 government-funded studies have concluded that] there is no association between vaccines and autism.”

So the CDC has absolutely no idea why autism occurs, except that it can’t possibly be from vaccines (even though the CDC just laid out a very specific mechanism of action for how this can happen) because government-funded studies concluded this wasn’t the case. Hmm, government-funded studies have also shown that Covid vaccines are already the safest and most effective vaccines in medical history. It’s also very important to note that the vast majority of studies on vaccines only consider the effects of administering a single dose at a time and do not evaluate the safety of multiple injections at once in an infant. Yet the Science is Settled™. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? For transparency, I transcribed this interview for the article, so it may have minor errors in phrasing. If someone is able to download this interview and send to me on the forum, I would appreciate it. I have a feeling it is only a matter of time before this interview is memory holed.

Following this interview, Gerberding left the CDC in December 2009 to become president of Merck’s vaccine division. Are you starting to see the incestuous relationship between Big Pharma and the CDC who mandates vaccines? The CDC schedule is like giving Pharma their own printing press. I’ll note again that the graphic below shows children are currently mandated to receive 53 injections of 71 doses by age 18. In contrast, I received ~7 injections during my childhood and Gen X isn’t exactly dropping dead from communicable diseases.

Source: https://kellythekitchenkop.com/cdc-vaccination-schedule-1983-vs-2016/

Note: Links to the actual 1983 and current CDC schedules are provided earlier in the article.

I’ll end with this, autism used to be noticed and diagnosed around 3 years or so. With attentive parents and a knowledgeable PCP, it can now be diagnosed around 2 years or even earlier. Vaccines are currently being pushed earlier and earlier. It’s been theorized in some circles that the schedule was intentionally accelerated to confound any connection with autism. I don’t know if that’s true and it would certainly have seemed insane to suggest even a couple years ago. I’m not so sure it’s farfetched anymore with watching the response to Covid. It’s eerily like the rush to vaccinate everyone for Covid so there’s no control group that can be compared against. It’s just not possible to compare the autism rates of a 1983 vaccine schedule group of toddlers with another group receiving the current schedule in a randomized controlled trial. Regardless of the reason for the acceleration, there is evidence to suggest that injecting infants and toddlers with dozens of vaccines can cause stress, which could initiate the reaction that CDC director Gerberding mentions above in children with mitochondrial disorders. We chose to follow the 1983 schedule for our own children, add in some of the newer vaccines on a delayed schedule, and reject others like the Hep B vaccine which was originally intended only for the children of intravenous drug users and whores.

What say you? Is this still a taboo conspiracy theory that has no place on Glibs? Or are you interested in additional articles that start exploring the scientific evidence? If there is a serious interest, I’ll start compiling what I have in follow-up articles. I’ll warn you in advance that evidence is not overwhelming, but neither is it non-existent. I’ll go back to my early statement that I don’t know. I’ll also note that the sponsors funding these studies would face devastation from finding such connections.

 

About The Author

Semi-Spartan Dad

Semi-Spartan Dad

Bacon is for sycophants, and products of incest.

243 Comments

  1. db

    “I don’t even have an opinion, man.”

    Now I’ll read the article.

  2. Zwak, sensual panzer

    Science is a methodology, nothing more and nothing less. What is presented as science is not data uncovered by that process, but rather on the opinion of someone interpreting that data, at best. At worse, it is propaganda.

    As soon as people realize this, and in turn, know that they are often placing their trust in a failable person, we can get on with life and make informed decisions.

  3. trshmnstr the terrible

    Count me as very interested. I’m skeptical of the connection, but not nearly as skeptical as I was 2 years ago. We did a modified vaxx schedule on kiddo #1 because she was tiny as an infant, and we’re debating what to do with kiddo #2 as she approaches 1 year of age.

    I’d say that I’m more skeptical of the current shot schedule than I am of the purported vaccine autism link. There’s no need to give that many shots to kids, and I don’t think I realized how many shots mine were getting until the covid vaxx blew the lid off a lot of it.

    Add in the vaccines tainted with association with abortion and the vaccines for lifestyle diseases, and there’s a ton of questionable medicine being pumped into kids.

    We just switched to a “natural” pediatrician because we were sick of sitting second chair when it came to our kids’ medical decisions. We’ll be having some frank conversations with the new doctor about vaccine schedule when the 1 year appointment comes up.

    • Drake

      “natural” pediatrician…

      I think a lot people are going to be walking away from their traditional doctors who blindly follow the dictates if the FDA and CDC.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      We just switched to a “natural” pediatrician because we were sick of sitting second chair when it came to our kids’ medical decisions. We’ll be having some frank conversations with the new doctor about vaccine schedule when the 1 year appointment comes up.

      I must have called 4 or 5 pediatric practices and couldn’t find any who were willing to accept my children as patients with a modified schedule. We finally found an excellent family practice physician who is well worth the hour drive each way.

    • R.J.

      I did the same, and I appreciate this article. My wife’s family has a history of on-the-spectrum, and some full-on autism so I took it carefully. I am not skeptical, just careful. Child ended up more like me, very hyper instead. Good for future work endeavors!

  4. Tundra

    Excellent article, SSD!

    I had no idea that the regimen was so many shots. I’m sad to say I gave it almost no thought when my kids were little.

    Beyond autism, chronic illnesses and metabolic disorders are rampant among kids now. Would it be at all shocking that shooting them 73 times could have unintended consequences?

    If you are willing to do the heavy lifting I’d love to learn more.

    • juris imprudent

      Yeah, mine was young before the explosion of the protocol. I’m appalled at the amount of shit being pumped into children. Rotavirus is a non-problem in this country, absurd to vaccinate for it.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      Thanks! I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if the multitude of vaccines are contributing to other chronic illnesses and metabolic disorders.

      • Fourscore

        And thank you, great and interesting article. There are things we don’t know that we don’t know

      • Semi-Spartan Dad

        Thank you.

  5. juris imprudent

    JFC – flu vaccines every year? I don’t even do that now.

    • rhywun

      Right?!

      It’s nuts.

    • Sensei

      That really stood out for me too.

      If you knock that requirement off the list by eye it looks around a 150% increase on required vaccines instead of the 500% to 700% increase in that table.

      Still makes you stand up and take notice even if you exclude it.

      • Lackadaisical

        I made the same observation, but still agree with the op, do my kids need HPV shots and hepatitis? Judy cause some people’s kids need them? Don’t think so.

      • Ted S.

        You never know when they’ll meet OMWC.

        /ducking

    • Rebel Scum

      Vitamin C/D/E, zinc, magnesium, selenium, etc. Boost your natural immunity, particularly if you start to feel ill.

  6. db

    I had no idea that current vaccination schedules were so voluminous.

    • Sean

      Me neither. That’s crazy.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        And you are considered crazy for thinking it’s crazy.

      • Semi-Spartan Dad

        It took me a couple drinks and about a year of kicking it around to finally write this article. I probably still wouldn’t have done it if it wasn’t for Covid starting to open eyes.

      • juris imprudent

        It’s easy to understand why – the prior anti-vax and vax/autism has been rooted in junk-science and new-age woo-woo. You’d have to be pretty much nuts to want any association with that.

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        ^^

        A lot of my skepticism of anti-vaxxers was that they seemed to be crunchy lunatics.

      • Fourscore

        Hey, wait just a damned minute now. I may be both but they may not be related.

    • EvilSheldon

      Nor I.

      As a confirmed trypanophobe, I wonder a bit if it’s not the vaccines themselves, but the act of holding down an infant and sticking them with needles repeatedly, that causes the social regression…

      • Fourscore

        Added a new word to my vocab. Thanks ES. A week ago I got a shot in the butt in an attempt to speed up getting rid of a rash.

        /Not a tryan..trypao, trypanph…OK, OK, whatever…

      • slumbrew

        A week ago I got a shot in the butt in an attempt to speed up getting rid of a rash.

        Are we still not doing ‘phrasing’?

      • EvilSheldon

        Heh. The medical literature just calls it ‘needle phobia’, but I do love my florid language.

        I had to have fifteen sutures in my soft palate when I was a little kid. I (thankfully) don’t remember this, but I suspect it might have something to do with my lifelong avoidance of getting jabbed.

  7. Scruffy Nerfherder

    Thanks Spartan.

    This one hits close to home as I have a son who classifies as Aspergers.

    autism is currently used as an umbrella diagnosis

    This cannot be overstated. Autism is a description of symptoms, not a diagnosis. I learned this the hard way when after receiving my son’s Aspie classification, he was promptly shuffled off into the pile of “those kids that we just kind of ignore now.” No attempts were made to determine root cause, pills for behavioral modification were suggested and rejected by his mother and I.

    I’m getting ready to go to lunch, but afterwards I’ll relay a detailed actual diagnosis of the biochemical pathways that are broken in his system due to a confluence of multiple genetic mutations and a medical system that treats children as herd animals.

    I have become rather bitter about the topic over the years as I witness the same process repeating itself with other families. They trust their pediatricians far too much because they are conditioned to and are desperate for answers. The government makes it far, far worse by refusing to discuss or even denying the underlying issues at play and demonizing those who are making good faith efforts to improve the situation by lumping them in with the true whack-a-loons who trade in pure conspiracy.

    • juris imprudent

      The therapeutic state may be the worst form of tyranny ever conceived.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      I’m sorry to hear all of that Scruff. It’s a broken system that’s very painful for the parents trying to navigate it… almost always on their own.

    • CPRM

      he was promptly shuffled off into the pile of “those kids that we just kind of ignore now.”

      esxept when it comes to school budgets, then each one must have their own aid! Sure, the kids may not get the aid, but the district gets their cut.

      • Rat on a train

        I’ve seen it from both sides. My son is autistic and my wife worked in special education. My son is high functioning, so he doesn’t get all the care he should. It frustrated my wife, but I told her it is better than being the low functioning kid that gets more care. He does get speech and writing help.
        If your kid is sufficiently disabled, you can get them on Medicaid regardless of your income. It gets them in the system in case they still need support when they are adults. Resources depend on your child’s diagnosis.

    • robc

      I don’t know how old your son is, but Aspbergers is now passe. It is no longer used as a separate diagnosis.

  8. db

    If you strip out the 19 influenza doses, the total count becomes 74 – 19 = 55 doses. Still twice the count in 1983. Some of that certainly is due to advances in the number of diseases for which there are vaccines. Some of that may be due to improved understanding of requirements for spacing boosters.

    But I’d certainly question the wisdom of mass injection of multiple vaccines all at once, unless there had been well documented studies showing the safety of doing so without interaction or effects of overwhelming a young immune system.

    I’d be interested in seeing any studies/papers documenting evidence for the mitochondrial damage hypothesis. Is there a specific mechanism posited, or is it a very early stage conjecture?

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      I wouldn’t discount the influenza doses. At least not the early ones that are given to young children. For this hypothesized pathway, it’s not so much the individual vaccines but rather the overload from multiple injections at once.

      I’m more on the clinical research side than the biomchem side, but I’ll see what I can turn up on more details about the mechanism. There is a strong association between autism and mitochondrial disorders, but of course correlation is not causation. This is an older article that has the prevalence among children with autism at 5% (as opposed to 0.01% in the general pop), but it’s a place to start:

      https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2010136

  9. The Other Kevin

    I’d like to learn more. Politics has tainted us in such a way that it’s very rare for someone to say “I don’t know for sure, but it’s possible.” So let’s hear more.

    When we got married, Mrs. TOK was required to get a rubella shot. Her doctor didn’t have one so he just gave her an MMR shot. A day later her joints were so painful she couldn’t move. The doctor thought it was just “soreness”. After a week of suffering he had her take a blood test, and he found a severe allergic reaction. After some steroids she was fine, but I can’t imagine what that would do to a kid. So yes, people do have reactions to even one shot, and they can be severe. This is why Mrs. TOK is not getting a COVID shot. We aren’t taking that chance just for some glory hound’s vanity project.

    • trshmnstr the terrible

      I’ve heard skepticism of the MMR vaccine in particular. Specifically that the combo shot is less safe than getting them each individually. Of course, they’re not sold individually anymore in the US, so it’s a take or don’t take decision.

      I dunno how true the skepticism is either.

      • Semi-Spartan Dad

        There are studies that have found significant increases and decreases of certain heavy metals in children with autism during gestational development. I tried to avoid the whole “Hey Mercury = Autism” thing, but there does seem to be at least a correlation of some metals with autism. I don’t know how that fits in with the current vaccines if at all. It could be indicative of other environmental causes (if we assume autism to be an umbrella of disorders, there will be several different causes).

        It’s like a giant puzzle and going through the studies is like trying to determine which could be puzzle pieces in ways we’re not even sure yet how fit together.

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        I’m only half remembering what I read, but it was some other ailment that was supposedly linked to MMR. Maybe Kawasaki syndrome or some other inflammatory issue?

        *goes off to the internet to track down the half remembered article*

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      Thanks, TOK.

    • EvilSheldon

      Yeah, ‘she’ looks like a model of health.

      • juris imprudent

        Sorry America, we had to save PA by sending her to DC.

      • Certified Public Asshat

        Better her than some bodybuilding Chad…right?

      • Fourscore

        Don’t do that to me, Tundra, you’re supposed to be my friend.

      • Zwak, sensual panzer

        She may be fat, but you know in second that she is a she.

        Not Miss four-star up above.

    • Certified Public Asshat

      I literally LOL’d at the response “Congrats to Benjamin Franklin.”

    • Lackadaisical

      So… I never knew you could go from nobody to four star admiral. Sounds ridiculous, regardless of who it is.

      • Certified Public Asshat

        It’s easy if you transition.

  10. Gustave Lytton

    Gen X isn’t exactly dropping dead from communicable diseases

    Covid has really opened my eyes that this was never the case, even prior to vaccines. Nor have they ever been 100% with zero side effects.

    Airing gut reactions, I think autism, while there are real cases, is the latest fad diagnosis like ADHD or peanut allergies and is applied to far more children who don’t behave or react as expected on an ideal schedule. I think child rearing in general could benefit from less worrying about the child and more about setting expectations and holding the child to it, with discipline as needed.

    • trshmnstr the terrible

      I think it’s very easy to classify people with relatively low social adeptness as (high-functioning) autistic these days. Then it becomes a self-perpetuating diagnosis as many parents don’t bother to push the kid to grow after they get the diagnosis.

      As others have mentioned, it’s a disservice to lump all these people together. I’ve known autistic people who were largely indistinguishable from their non-autistic family members, except in their drive to succeed. I’ve know autistic people who were unable to function independently as a human being even in some of the more basic tasks. It makes no sense to treat those two types of people the same.

      • robc

        Autism is often missed in girls because they are naturally more social than boys.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      I don’t know about ADHD, but it’s not easy to get an autism diagnosis. It takes a specialized medical professional to give an official diagnosis (or a team of others working together). In rural areas especially, the closest one may be an hour or two away with up to a one year wait.

      Usually a validated instrument like the ADOS is used… it’s not just parents chatting with the doc about getting Johnny pumped with pills. The ADOS can set the parents back a grand, easy, unless if there health insurance is gold plated.

  11. robc

    My daughter is on the spectrum and I am 100% convinced it is because of genes from her Father.

    • UnCivilServant

      I came so close to asking “So who’s her father?”.

      😛

      • robc

        You will have to ask Nashville Fertility. I delivered a container of my sperm, but who knows what they actually used?

      • robc

        Apparently there is no known connection between IVF and autism, but it has been suggested before.

      • Lackadaisical

        I mean, do a genetic test? If my little embryo survives I plan to do so.

      • robc

        She is so obviously mine, it isn’t worth doing.

  12. Mojeaux

    I’d have to look up what I got my kids, but I think it was just the basics I had as a kid and what’s required for school attendance. XX’s pediatrician wanted her to get the HPV at 8, and I’m like, duh no. She got it when she was 16. I’m about to take XY for his HPV vaccine. Then I think we’re done. No flu, no COVID, no whatever else they think they can prevent with a vaccine.

    I don’t know what XX did about the COVID vax. She went to get vaxxed when she was still 17 and they wouldn’t do it without our permission and she wasn’t getting it. But now she’s 18. I haven’t asked.

    • db

      Just to glom onto your comment, the HPV vaccine is important to get because of the prevention of cervical cancer. The downside of the vaccine is that research into cervical cancer treatment has gone down the tubes, which we found out to our chagrin when my Mom was diagnosed with cervical cancer.

      • Mojeaux

        One time I posted a meme of a dude going down on a girl (soft light, not too explicit, almost SFW) that said, “She’s what’s for breakfast.” Somebody else posted that that was a good way to get throat cancer (HPV).

      • hayeksplosives

        That happened to Michael Douglas and to a friend of ours in San Diego (friend had finally settled down with a wonderful woman by then but the damage was done).

      • hayeksplosives

        That happened to Michael Douglas and to a friend of ours in San Diego (friend had finally settled down and married a wonderful woman for years by then but the damage was done).

        A virus that causes cancer. Pause and reflect on that a bit: what is cancer? A mutant cell, meaning that somehow its DNA got corrupted and it then managed to stay under the immune system’s radar and replicate itself, eventually growing large enough to be a problem.

        And now the Covid vaccine is expressly intended to modify mRNA, which is the part of genetic information contained in the mitochondria. Hmmm…:

    • CPRM

      Until recently I was not aware that all warts, not just genital warts, are said to be caused by HPV. Man, I guess my hands got more lucky than I did when I was a kid, since they now say HPV is an STD.

  13. The Other Kevin

    There are a lot of unsettling things in this article. One is that we’ve been studying autism for a long time, and still don’t know exactly what causes it.

    • juris imprudent

      One of our needs for absolutes is that science can solve mysteries. We don’t like it when it can’t.

      • Lackadaisical

        It’s one of those really complex things like diet that they’ll likely never solve as everyone is too different and things keep changing in the environment.

  14. Grummun

    However, our shared best guess is that autism is currently used as an umbrella diagnosis for several different disorders that present similarly.

    I work in a statistical genetics lab that did a lot of work on autism ~7-10 years ago. I am not a statistician or geneticist, just a code monkey/technician. From my viewpoint, however, looking at how phenotypes were classified, I’d say you’re right. To say that someone has “autism” is a gross overgeneralization, and that we need to tease out distinctions in clinical diagnosis to have any chance of successfully identifying causal factors.

    I did have the gut “vaccines don’t cause autism” reaction, on reading your headline, but you make a fine point regarding the pharma-regulatory complex’s reaction to any suggestion that COVID “vaccines” are less than an unalloyed good.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      Thanks Gummun. I appreciate you reading with an open mind.

  15. Mojeaux

    Both my kids have a variety of issues, most of which are semi-controlled (with varying success) with meds. I can conclusively say (a la robc) that their mental illnesses are 100% genes from their mother.

    I do not think ADHD is a fad. What I do think is that in the past it was controlled differently, i.e., working on the farm or 40 hours a day in a factory or heading west, young man, i.e., surviving.

    I do think peanut allergies are new; however, someone posited the notion that kids who were “sickly” may have had some sort of allergy, peanut, gluten, dairy, whatever they are these days.

    I think many of the things that can be seen as “fads” are just revealed by our prosperity and leisure time.

    • robc

      I didn’t find this out until after my daughter was diagnosed, but apparently I was tested for autism in the mid 70s. Apparently the result was “borderline” and since they weren’t going to stick me in Special Ed, they tossed me until the Advanced Program and hoped for the best.

      So I don’t have a diagnosis technically, but, well, you know.

      As I have said for years, everyone who works in IT is somewhere on the spectrum.

      • Mojeaux

        When I was in the first grade, my teacher told my parents to get me to a private school stat. I didn’t know this until years later. She was one of my favorite teachers ever.

        When I was in the second grade, I was put in a gifted experiment or something, I’m not quite sure. For several weeks, twice a week, I and a few others were sent upstairs with a 6th grader who would tutor me in things. Mostly I only remember cutting stuff out and gluing things. For years, I thought it was for stupid kids.

        When I was nearing the end of third grade, the KC school district did “desegregated” bussing (see CATO report here) and I was going to be going to a far inferior school than what I was already in. My parents went shopping for a private school.

        So fourth grade, there I was, the lone Mormon in a southern Baptist private school.

      • robc

        Bussing started in Louisville my 1st grade year. So I missed Day 1, in case of riots, but they didn’t happen.

        I remember the testing, I thought it was the testing to be in the AP. It was, I was just going thru more testing than that. Louisville had separate classes (basically magnet schools before that was a thing) for the Advanced Program, so I went to a different Elementary after 1st grade, the class had students from a number of different elementary districts.

        On a funny bussing story, I was bussed in 3rd grade. All of the black kids in the AP were being bussed out to the suburbs, so there was literally zero black kids in my class.

        My other bussing year was 8th grade, but my middle school was sufficiently diverse so I didnt get bussed.

      • rhywun

        I started the smart-track and the bussing in 4th grade and by then all those schools were in the worst neighborhoods. I’m sure deliberately so.

      • rhywun

        Interesting. I wonder if I was tested. Because I have an older brother with autism.

      • Nephilium

        I was tested around first grade as well. In a twist, the private school recommended to my parents to send me to the local public school since they had a gifted program. Recently got handed a bunch of childhood stuff the parents had been holding onto that included the paperwork for the testing. Some quick searches on the scale and name of the testing done didn’t return much in the way of scales or what specifically was being tested for.

    • EvilSheldon

      ADHD is definitely not a fad; anyone who has met me knows that (plus I still have my PET scan recordings from when I was diagnosed back in 4th grade.)

    • UnCivilServant

      On the topic of ADHD, I think it is both real and overdiagnosed. You have one subset who does have the condition and another where the teacher went “Why can’t these boys just sit still and be quiet while I lecture at them?” after removing any outlet for the normal activity.

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        This. As with most “fad” diagnoses, there is always a nugget of reality coated with a metric fuckton of social engineering. Forcing kids to do a very unnatural thing (sit in class for 6+ hours per day) and then classifying them as defective when they find coping mechanisms is one of the persistent evils of government schooling.

      • robc

        See also, gluten allergies.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Do you mean ignoring millennia of human evolution and explosion on a wheat diet or at least wheat in their diet and suddenly, as if a thousand souls cried out (marketers), humans can’t eat wheat?

        /I know…there are people with actual wheat allergies but not on the level of ‘gluten free products’ available and fad diets and the junk science behind them.

      • slumbrew

        My wife is in the “there is definitely an issue with gluten” bucket.

        When we first met I was all “whatever with your fake white-girl disease” but having seen her belly swell & her in pain after eating gluten, there is for sure something there.

        She never got tested for celiac – she’d have to start eating gluten for something like 6 weeks first & it wouldn’t tell her much other than “don’t eat gluten” (well, it’d be “gluten will eventually kill you”).

        One of those things where they always thought she was just a “bad eater” growing up – dropping gluten was a revelation for her.

      • Mojeaux

        This is not quite the same, but it reminds me…

        So I dropped about 20 pounds my freshman year of college. Yeah, I had to walk everywhere, BUT… the cafeteria was a bonanza of protein and salads. They had a salad bar!, which is something I really dig.

        Then, 2 years later, I was delivering pizza for the summer. Lunch. I was the only driver. Not too crazy. I often made the pizzas and would graze in the pepperoni and cheese (my manager was chill). I was ALSO going to Weight Watchers. The weeks I stuck to my diet were miserable and i would usually gain weight. The weeks I said, “Fuck this” and cheated with pepperoni and mozzarella, I always lost weight.

        I never made the connection.

      • slumbrew

        We were lied to for years, Mojeaux. The Food Pyramid was one of the great harms inflicted on the US population.

      • Fourscore

        Do kids get recess in today’s schools.? Back in the day we had morning, afternoon recess plus if you lived close to school could hang out after a quick lunch at home. We lived a mile from grade school and walked home and back every lunch time. Must have had an hour for lunch. Kids need some down time to shake off those ol’ school time blues

      • UnCivilServant

        Not during my tenure. School was run like a prison. The idea of people leaving and returning during the school day was alien to me. Anyone who left had no intention of coming back that day.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Lunches are down to 20/30 mintues. Its sit…eat (hopefully) and get back to sitting in class.

      • Gustave Lytton

        The removal of outlets yes, but also the removal of discipline including corporal punishment.

      • Drake

        In grade school we played tackle football or kill-the-guy-with-the-ball during recess. And had real gym classes. We would come back to class dirty, sweating, and bleeding – and actually sit still and pay attention.

      • Ownbestenemy

        kill-the-guy-with-the-ball — where I was from it was Smear the Queer and not once did I think it meant I was gay when I had the ball.

    • juris imprudent

      I think allergies in general crop up more now because of our higher level of hygiene, both personal and environmental. Our immune systems don’t like being bored.

      • Ownbestenemy

        ^^^ No they do not. *looks back to previous times out over the past months at big events and having some type of head ‘cold’ afterwards*

      • Ownbestenemy

        So ‘rub some dirt on it’ actually was the proper response to cuts?

      • slumbrew

        More “don’t avoid dirt” – not sure actively rubbing it into cuts is a great idea.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Sissy /best grandpa voice

      • slumbrew

        I mean, maybe you want some sweet looking scars…

      • robc

        Wasn’t that the cause of the 20th century Polio outbreak?

      • slumbrew

        That, I dunno.

      • slumbrew

        It’s also distinct from just exposure to allergens like peanuts – as I understand it they now recommend early exposure to small amounts of nuts for kids these days; the total avoidance of years past likely made things much worse.

  16. Drake

    Over the weekend I was told I had to work remote because unvaccinated. My wife just got an email saying the same thing. Reading between the lines – they are waiting for legislation or OSHA rules for legal cover before they fire us.

    • kinnath

      kill-the-guy-with-the-ball

      smear the queer

      Less enlightened times.

      • kinnath

        threading fuck up

      • Brawndo

        I dunno. It kinda works here

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        “from the makers of Frag the Fag and Splay the Gay comes Smear the Queer!”

      • Ownbestenemy

        Welcome to my world!

  17. Rebel Scum

    Have an Opinion Do You?

    I’ve only been told that I am “on the spectrum”.

  18. slumbrew

    Is there anything to be gleaned by looking at other first would countries with less aggressive dosing schedules and their incidents of spectrum diagnoses? Or is like trying to compare crime stats with the UK – tracking is just too different to make meaningful comparisons?

    • db

      This was my first thought. Surely there have to be some countries out there that continue (or have worked up to) a vaccine schedule similar to the US in the early ’80s to compare.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      That is definitely worth a look. A lot would depend too on how autism is diagnosed in those countries.

      I’ve heard a suggestion for a 2 arm trial in the US using the Amish as the control arm, but I have no idea where the funding for such a study would come from.

      • slumbrew

        That was my other thought – comparing to groups like the Amish and (some?) Orthodox Jews.

  19. Ozymandias

    SSD – Great article and thank you for writing it.
    Even before the current Covid hoax, people had been conditioned by mass media and social pressures to think vaccines are magic potions.
    99% of people who give or get them – yes, including the doctors and even the people who make them – are operating on hope and nothing more.
    We still don’t understand how the immune system works in toto. I’ll say it again (with love and respect for all of our wonderful Glib docs) but medical fuckups are the third leading cause of death annually: ~400K/year. Yet doctors – just like police – as an industry, have convinced the American public of their infallible rightness and trustworthiness about the human body. I’m sorry, but nothing could be further from the reality. Some of the fuckups are also the result of good intentions, too. Some are not.
    Orthodpedic surgeons and anesthesia are wonders of modern medicine. In broad terms, when medicine confines itself to handling the problems of the body that result from accidents and other kinetic malevolence, that’s where they are great. Unfortunately, most of the death and medical spend in the US is from chronic disease – and medicine and pharma have turned that into an absolute shitshow. That’s besides the fact that doctors helped cause it in the first place with horseshit dietary recommendations that serve other masters.
    I hope people are having a chance to reconsider their slavish obedience to being injected with unknown substances. I know I wasn’t anti-vaxx before, but I sure as fuck am now.

    • Mojeaux

      medical fuckups are the third leading cause of death annually: ~400K/year. Yet doctors – just like police – as an industry, have convinced the American public of their infallible rightness and trustworthiness about the human body.

      This is why my dad loved working for medical malpractice attorneys.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      Thanks Ozy. Your vaccine articles and posts have been an inspiration.

      • Ozymandias

        Well, then – I’ll count those rants as having at least been useful beyond the therapy I get from unburdening myself.
        Thanks, SSD.
        (Also, aluminum as an adjuvant has a lot of evidence on both sides of the ledger, IIRC.)

      • Fourscore

        “Orthopedic surgeons and anesthesia are wonders of modern medicine”

        Even as I didn’t have surgery recently and all the OS did was look at X-rays, he did a helluva job.

    • Drake

      I knew there was correlation between vaccines and autism – this helped explain the possible causes.

      And the pharmas want the covid vax added to that cocktail for kids.

    • Mustang

      Ozy, your book is my next read. Starting it tonight, though I’m not entirely sure I want to because it’ll just piss me off.

    • Certified Public Asshat

      Cernovich had a thread yesterday where he was criticizing the liquid hospitals use in feeding tubes. It’s basically just corn syrup and vegetable oil.

      It was eye opening, even though it shouldn’t be considering the running joke that is hospital food.

  20. hayeksplosives

    I’ve commented about this on Glibs before, but this article seems to be the right place to park it.

    I have temporal lobe epilepsy. My first seizures were febrile seizures as an infant and happened to occur shortly after being vaccinated (DPT for diphtheria, pertussis,tetanus: since 1996, replaced with DTaP).

    Many infants suffer from febrile seizures, recover completely and never have another seizure. I seemingly recovered too. But I started having “episodes” that I didn’t know were what are called “partial” seizures, in which only a localized portion of the brain is involved sometime in my teens.

    Then I had a full blown tonic clonic convulsive seizure at age 31. Got the EEG and other tests and was verified as having temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE). Fortunately mine is “well controlled” on daily meds, but it does affect my life.

    So even though febrile seizures in infancy don’t usually lead to TLE, about 6% of adult TLE people did experience febrile seizures.

    The speculated mechanism is that little infant brains swell slightly when feverish and push the brain downward onto a bony protrusion inside the skull. That “bruises” the temporal lobe, which later comes back to haunt.

    It would not surprise me if overloading infants with vaccines that induce fever sufficient to swell brains also could cause other physical brain injuries.

    (BTW, I am allergic to the Tetanus vaccine, as I discovered in my 20s when I got a “booster”.)

    • Mojeaux

      After a sleep study, the pulmonologist recommended I see a neurologist. The word “epilepsy” was involved. I did not go because I can’t not drive. So far as I can tell or remember, I have never had a seizure.

    • slumbrew

      Did they ever suggest you can’t drive?

      That was the case with a couple people I know who have seizure disorders.

      • Ownbestenemy

        My niece has epilepsy and hasn’t been told can’t drive, but docs did say “you should probably not drive”.

      • hayeksplosives

        I was banned from driving for 6 months but reinstated after my neurologist signed the paperwork to the effect that I had been “seizure-free” for 6 months.

        Then eventually we only had to do the paper work annually, and now it’s just every 2 years.

        It’s a fallacy that you’ll never drive again after a seizure.

      • UnCivilServant

        I’m wagering the concern is having a seizure while driving. But the longer you do without one, the less chance of that happening.

      • Lackadaisical

        Based on most people driving, someone having a seizure would be indistinguishable from most others on the road today.

      • db

        I have a colleague who had the same experience.

  21. juris imprudent

    Oh I looked up the law Congress passed back in ’86 to remove the liability on childhood vaccines. Sponsored by none other than the mole-man himself, Rep. Henry Waxman.

  22. kinnath

    ADHD — we were guardians of teenage girl that was the poster child for ADHD. She was scatter-brained and restless. On pills, she would read the newspaper, and we would have interesting discussions on current topics. As the pills wore off, she would return to whirling-dervish mode. It is very real for some people, and it can be treated effectively.

    The spectrum — my grandson was diagnosed as being on the spectrum. He was on meds for awhile, and it helped him cope with the world. He was on meds long enough to understand what “normal” was supposed to be. He then learned out to be “normal” without the meds. His case was mild, and he was able to overcome it.

    Celiac disease — wife’s mother was formally diagnosed with it. My wife has problems if she eats to much wheat. My daughter was formally diagnosed with it. It produces crippling bowel problems. She needs to be very careful of everything she each and to read labels religiously. Both of my son’s daughters were formally diagnosed with it. One of the girls is so bad that we she had blood in her stools as a toddler.

    All of these very real things have become fads that let people believe they are victims and can demand special treatment.

    • Mojeaux

      I try to tell my son that the meds are to help him learn coping mechanisms. There are going to be times in his life he can’t rely on meds to get through.

    • slumbrew

      My wife and I roll our eyes when we’re out and overhear someone specifying “no gluten!” at the restaurant, then ordering a beer with their meal.

      Those people make my wife self conscious when ordering “really, it’s an allergy, not just a preference” – no fryer cross-contamination, etc. Though my wife is cool with blue cheese (some are cultured on bread).

      • UnCivilServant

        Fun Fact, Likeside Brewery in Milwaukee makes gluten-free beers.

        I thought they tasted like crap, but I’m not a beer drinker.

      • UnCivilServant

        (One of the founders has Celiac, so they formulated them for him)

      • slumbrew

        There are some decent GF beers – Glutenberg, in particular, is quite tasty. Needs to be kept cold, though, as the taste declines as it gets warmer.

        My wife is skeptical of the “gluten-removed” beers.

        *looks*

        Ah we’ve had their New Grist GF beer – not terrible but I’ve had better.

      • Nephilium

        Quite a few of the gluten removed/reduced beers are thanks to White Labs. One of their clarifying agents also turned out to break down gluten in finished beer.

      • robc

        White Labs is awesome. I think I met Chris White once.

      • kinnath

        gluten-free beers.

        Mead. It’s called mead.

        😉

      • Fourscore

        I’ve heard from others that mead(s) are really super. I’ll rely on their opinions. It’s made with natural products. It makes people happy at HH, that’s for sure.

      • UnCivilServant

        Mead is wine made from honey.

        It is not an attempt to recreate a beery flavor with a different forulation.

      • kinnath

        Mead is wine made from honey.

        Mead is not wine.

        I can and do make mead using wine yeast that reaches 12-16% ABV and is bottled still. Some people will call that honey wine because they are too lazy or too tired of trying to explain it to people.

        I can and do make mead using ale yeast that reaches 6-8% ABV that is kegged and force carbonated. The commercial industry has taken to calling that “session mead”. I have three of them on tap in my kegerator right now.

        Unfortunately, I do know people that make hoppy mead. Fuck those people. But yeah, I can make a beer replacement that will taste a lot like an IPA without using any malt.

      • UnCivilServant

        I can make a beer replacement that will taste a lot like an IPA without using any malt.

        But why would you? Should you not embrace uniqueness?

      • kinnath

        I won’t, because I want met to be “not beer” and “not wine”.

        But I know beer geeks that will mead and cider with hops in them. Hoppy mead is bad. Hoppy cider is horrendous. But some people like them.

      • UnCivilServant

        Hops are horrendous. It doesn’t matter what you throw them in, they ruin it.

      • Nephilium

        /hides his Cooking with Hops book

      • kinnath

        We like Neph anyway.

      • robc

        UCS is just wrong on hops, but hopped Mead sounds awful

        My awful idea I want to try is a heavily dry hopped lambic. I am pretty sure it would be horrible.

      • kinnath

        My awful idea I want to try is a heavily dry hopped lambic.

        Another thing that pisses me off. 😉

        Dry-hopping sour ales — the sour/hop combination really turns me off.

      • robc

        Yeah, I don’t think bitter and sour go well together. Pick one and accentuate it.

      • Nephilium

        robc:

        A couple of local places do some solid hopped meads.

        And as I’m sure you’re aware, one issue with hopping a lambic is the anti-bacterial properties of the hops (just putting this out there for those who wonder why there aren’t a lot of hopped lambics). For my lambics, I actually just leave packs of hops sitting out in the basement (still sealed) to age them out of freshness.

        I really should get around to bottling that kriek that’s been in the basement for years now.

      • kinnath

        A couple of local places do some solid hopped meads.

        Just drink beer for fuck’s sake.

      • Unreconstructed

        My friend runs a place that makes cider (and resells wine made by family in MI), and he did a hopped cider. Only one of his ciders I won’t drink. Hops are the debil.

      • Ted S.

        As always, it’s the carbonation that’s the problem.

        /freak who doesn’t like carbonated beverages

      • Plisade

        Omission beer is pretty good.

      • slumbrew

        That’s the GF-removed beer I was thinking of, in fact. The wife is hesitant.

        Not like either of us drink much beer anyway.

      • Ownbestenemy

        That was what I was getting at above. People that seriously need to avoid certain ingredients are being overrun by idiots like you pointed out.

      • Surly Knott

        Counterpoint: they are being offered a much wider range of choices, more readily available to them, than would otherwise be the case.

    • Lackadaisical

      One thing, again going back to the immune system, most of the immune system is in the gut. Like others notes, humans have been eating wheat for a long time, so why now? Maybe it’s all just defective immune response and modern times are causing it?

      My sister literally couldn’t keep weight on before going on an extreme diet, which as she explained it is caused by some imbalance in gut bacteria (immune system involved?) That can be exacerbated by eating the wrong balance of sugars.

      Needles to say, I’m a lot less skeptical of people who say they have allergies or what not than I used to be.

  23. Ozymandias

    Let me add one thought on the vaccine as curative –

    Microbes have been cavorting about on this planet for something like 4bn years? Ish?
    Human beings are (as far as we know) about… what? 200K years old? Give or take?
    Vaccines (and I’m using that broadly) are about ~300 years old? And widespread vaccination is even younger.

    It should not be controversial to suggest that jamming a whole bunch of microbes or DNA altering substances into a vial and injecting it into someone’s body willy-nilly isn’t necessarily a great long-term play.
    And might have side effects and third and fourth order consequences that we don’t understand.

    Maybe what we really need is a vaccine that inoculates out the arrogance and selects for humility.

    • juris imprudent

      a vaccine that inoculates out the arrogance and selects for humility

      Paging Dr. Malthus! One population crash made to order.

  24. ttyrant

    Yeesh. My wife and I have our first child on the way in March – this sort of stuff is nightmare fuel. That many shots? Seriously? I am grateful my wife is generally apolitical. It so happens that she has enough health issues such that she wants to stay away from the Covid vax, even with both parents and a very intelligent brother and sister-in-law pushing her to do so. I just mention this because I think she’s naturally sympathetic to my skepticism- if she was a Covid nut, the last two years would have almost certainly made me bald.

    I’m curious how other glibs navigate these waters, as I know there’s plenty here who have had newborns recently. I suspect at the end of the day I need to find the time to do my own damn research. Finding the time for that is a pretty daunting prospect. Thanks for putting this post together, SSD. I’ve bookmarked some of your references.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      Thanks ttyrant. The Poling case is very disturbing. We didn’t go through it with our child, and I can’t imagine what it’s like for the parents who do.

    • Mustang

      When they said everything would change after having a kid less than a year ago, I believed them but didn’t realize just how much my emotional reaction to stuff like this would change.

      As for navigating stuff like this, I can’t say I have an answer. COVID has blown everything wide open. Pre-COVID I m not sure I’d have thought twice. Now, we are learning all sorts of shit about Big Pharma and just trying to keep our own sanity in check while doing what’s best for the little one.

      I may approach the wife about SSD’s slow-rolling vaccine schedule. That seems reasonable.

    • Lackadaisical

      As the parent to your child, you have a responsibility to their health and well being. You’re not going to have any additional time when the kid is born. So your research now so you don’t have to live in regret. Obviously we can’t make 100 percent correct decisions at all times, but you are morally obligated to do your best.

  25. slumbrew

    I’d like to call out Semi-Spartan Dad for his bullshit “I just don’t know” attitude – we demand total surety and a mocking of all contrary positions!

    Seriously – great article. Add me to the “I was in no way a vaccine skeptic until recently” bucket. That and, as pointed out, the “anti-vaxxers” really are/were filled with crystal-hugging kooks.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      Thanks, slumbrew. Those were great points on comparative groups.

  26. Semi-Spartan Dad

    Work calls and I need to run, but will try to be back before the next article drops if there are any more questions I can answer.

    I want to thank everyone for being open minded and seriously considering what I’ve wrote. I am not convinced that vaccines can cause autism, but I think there are enough questions that it shouldn’t be taboo any longer to discuss. This is truly an incredible place and I really appreciate being a part of it.

  27. JaimeRoberto (shama/lama/ding dong)

    I’m not sold on the vaccine-autism link, but I also don’t like the number of shots kids get. Even more, I dislike the shortcut in thinking that says, it’s a vaccine, therefore it must be good and therefore we must mandate it or you are a stupid anti-vaxxer, you don’t want to be a stupid anti-vaxxer so shut up and get the shot, and no this can’t possibly lead to any screwed up incentives.

    • Ownbestenemy

      I bet we pay it and then wonder why humanitarian organizations won’t continue their presence in Haiti afterward. Or we mobilize and rescue them and still turn a blind-eye to those stuck in Afghanistan.

      • Sean

        It’s a drop in the bucket compared to what we gave the Taliban.

        Weak admin will probably give them twice what they’re asking.

        Let’s go Brandon!

    • EvilSheldon

      I imagine that the SMU boys are probably looking for something to do.

      The big problem, of course, is that we have zero intel resources in Haiti, and no way of developing any in a useful timeframe.

      • Not Adahn

        we have zero intel resources in Haiti,

        What about our guys that wacked their president?

  28. Mustang

    MOAR ARTICLES.

    Please write more on this. It’s particularly interesting because you’re at least trying to be objective about it and it’s refreshing. Well done.

    • Mustang

      Not vaccine-related (or is it?)…

      About eight years ago now I was sitting at work when suddenly my vision went all blurry and it felt like my brain was too big for my skull. I couldn’t walk a straight line, but I walked myself to the base ER where they promptly treated me for a bad hangover. I spent a month in that condition and whenever I went to sleep, I wasn’t sure I’d wake up, which led to some pretty severe panic attacks. Every time I went to try and get help at the base clinic, they treated me for a hangover. They were pretty open about it. It finally started to ease a bit and someone finally signed me up for a CT scan at a Korean hospital off base. Didn’t show anything. Got an MRI too, with nada.

      It took about six months for the feeling to go away enough where I could actually start to remember the day prior, instead of fumbling around my brain trying to connect dots to recall things. I had a spinal tap done around that time and that caused the worst headache I’ve ever experienced. I didn’t get out of bed for three days. Finally, after a year or so, I kind of gave up after being told it’s just stress and decided to just go to mental health.

      Ever since then I’ve had regular migraines and bouts of dizziness that will last a few days and go away. It changed my personality too. I used to be told I wear my emotions on my sleeve. Now I’m regularly told I’m incredibly reserved, even indecipherable sometimes (which freaks out new friends according to my wife). Maybe that’s just growing up, because I hated that everyone could see how I felt.

      So anyways, after going in and out of mental health and feeling like a total loon, they decided on whatever it is where people think they have something and even physically present symptoms, but don’t really have anything. I’ve given up completely and have just learned to work around the migraines, dizziness, and frustration at not being able to show my loving wife hardly any outward affection or overreact to stuff. Turns out that last bit can be very useful.

      Long story short, I hate the medical system and distrust every doctor I’ve met. It may be just me, or not. I dunno.

      Fuck Big Pharma.

      That is all.

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        I’m not a doctor in the slightest, but that sounds like a small stroke. I’m surprised they didn’t find any damage consistent with that.

      • Mustang

        Yeah, the lower part of my face felt weird too. They did check for a stroke after some bitching on my part but didn’t find anything…allegedly.

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        I’ll add the abridged version of my source of skepticism.

        A few months after my parents divorced, my mom had a mental break and was in and out of psych wards for the next year (with occasional relapses for the next decade). The diagnosis slightly varied each time, but it was mostly PTSD plus schizophrenia. She was having near constant auditory hallucinations mixed with paranoia. For a decade.

        It always struck me as funny that a person who, although regularly dealing with some relatively mundane mental issues, wasnt an unstable person would snap, not during the divorce, but as she was starting to get a sense of normalcy put together again.

        By year 4ish, after many attempts to live on her own had failed and she had been through another stint at the local psych ward, and as her grasp of reality continued to decline, I finally started confronting her about the mess of psychiatric pills she was popping. Long story short, even after confronting her and my grandparents about this strongly in year 5, she went another 5 years popping psychiatric cocktails before coming to the realization that she was experiencing side effects of off label (chronic) use of an (acute/short-term) anti-anxiety med prescribed after her divorce.

        After detoxing, she didn’t return to pre-divorce mom, but was as close as you can expect after being through that.

        The psychiatrists couldn’t figure this out. They were happy to layer on more pills. My boomer grandparents couldn’t figure it out, they worshipped the medical establishment (and still do ?). I figured out one of the pieces of the puzzle, but it was up to my mom, during some of her more salient moments, to do the research and figure out that others were experiencing the same thing.

        The only change since then in my thinking is an expansion of my disdain for mental health professionals to health professionals as a whole. ok, disdain is a strong word, skepticism is more like it.

      • db

        I have a very good friend who is a social worker who deals with all kinds of kids and families on psychiatric meds of all kinds. He adopted a very troubled boy after fostering him for a year or two. Up until the adoption, he had no control of the meds the kid was on, and the doctors had him on a crazy cocktail of medications, some counterindicated for various conditions that others were prescribed for.

        After the adoption he put his foot down, found a doctor that would agree to stop all the drug therapies, and start from scratch. After that, he is still on some medications, but far fewer and at lower doses than before. He is doing orders of magnitude better. It seems all the interacting meds he was on before were causing him some serious problems that have gone away since the reset.

      • Tulip

        So sorry you’re going through this. I have a friend that suddenly developed stomach issues and tics and seizures, and then muscle weakness. And when the medical establishment couldn’t figure it out, wrote him off as it being all in his head. He finally got a diagnosis and treatment (basically chemo every 6 months) and is doing better. I think Hashimotos syndrome, maybe.

        But because of failed treatments, he has steroid induced type II diabetes and weight gain etc. He and his wife have had a really rough time.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        It’s not easy to do, but find a neurologist who specializes in diagnosis, not treatment.

        It took me years to find one for myself as I have my own issues that cropped up around age 40.

      • Mustang

        I wish I had the willpower to pick up the fight again. I’m kind of just resigned to the idea that I’m either a loon, will die by age 51 like my grandfather and great-grandfather, or will debilitate into no-shit madness very early.

        Ah well, the rest of life is pretty great.

        Well, except the whole careening headlong into tyranny thing.

  29. Lackadaisical

    ..”We present a singleton case of developmental regression and oxidative phosphorylation disorder in a 19-month-old girl. Subtle abnormalities in the serum creatine kinase level, aspartate aminotransferase, and serum bicarbonate led us to perform a muscle biopsy, which showed type I myofiber atrophy, increased lipid content, and reduced cytochrome c oxidase activity.”

    Case closed in my book.

  30. Raven Nation

    “but I’m amazed that so many people are so damn sure that there’s no possibility to be explored. It’s become a taboo subject”

    I make something like this point when people bring up the fraudulent Lancet article arguing a connection between vaccines & autism. Skeptics (and SGU is big on this) dismiss it by saying “oh, there was one study and it was fraudulent so let’s forget the whole thing.” Yeah, I agree with that as stated. But the bigger question is how did the article get through all the peer-review processes, etc. Hand-waving away one article without addressing – and at least attempting to fix – the underlying systematic problem does nothing to restore confidence in research.

    • UnCivilServant

      So what is the factor keeping the boats waiting at the clogged ports rather than moving to another port on the other side of the country? Is it contractual? logistic?

      • robc

        Logistic. I have heard labor shortage to unload boats.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Cheaper to wait it out than to sail elsewhere apparently.

        Thought I saw a week ago the backlog was 60 ships.

        Meanwhile this and the increasing congestion has allowed minor ports to ramp with the grifting. Zero chance this will ever happen, and certainly not at the estimated $1B.

        https://theworldlink.com/news/local/port-signs-mou-to-bring-shipping-container-facility-to-coos-bay/article_46399ec2-0f40-11ec-9101-2b5d29d7c8d5.html

        There’s a railroad, but it’s in poor condition and cannot support either doublestacks or the speed necessary for intermodal, and would need to either handoff to UP (and would be a captive unless the paper restrictions on interchanging with another shortline were lifted) or transfer to trucks after a relatively short distance.

      • Gustave Lytton

        And no fucking way is the Port of Coos Bay going to be handling 1M TEUs. That’s 10% of LA/Long Beach

      • juris imprudent

        I read that the port of Charleston has containers stacked up all over (and expanding more storage for them). They can get them off the ships, but the trucks/rails aren’t getting off to end destinations.

      • robc

        When the pipeline broke last year or this spring or whenever it was, the line of gas trucks stretching into the port of Charleston was impressive. It basically shut down I-526 in that direction.

      • robc

        Oh, I misread your question, but same answer. The problem exists nationwide.

  31. Certified Public Asshat

    let me ask if you’ve done your research or if you’re just parroting the MSM?

    The left is now openly mocking the idea of doing your own research and critically examining things on your own. I guess it’s a failure of the school system that they didn’t completely eliminate critical thinking.

  32. Lackadaisical

    I think the connection between fever and the possibility of neurological damage is well established, so why not a fever introduced by a vaccine (a known side effect)?

    Once couches like that, I find the possibility much higher.

    One thing I’ve just started to think about: males tend to have weaker or different immune systems when compared to females. Does an immune response trigger for autism make sense in this context, where males are much more likely to be diagnosed as autistic?

  33. Ozymandias

    For more eye-opening info on vaccines, I suggest this site. It’s some data wonk who is taking the CDC’s VAERS info and posting it each week. Whoo-boy!
    Then consider that the Public Health Service hired a consultant to take a look at the VAERS system. Here are the last paragraphs of the paper’s conclusions:

    Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events
    and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or
    slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. New surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed. Barriers to reporting
    include a lack of clinician awareness, uncertainty about when and what to report, as well as the burdens of reporting: reporting is not part of clinicians’ usual workflow, takes time, and is
    duplicative. Proactive, spontaneous, automated adverse event reporting imbedded within EHRs and other information systems has the potential to speed the identification of problems with new
    drugs and more careful quantification of the risks of older drugs.

    Unfortunately, there was never an opportunity to perform system performance assessments because the necessary CDC contacts were no longer available and the CDC consultants
    responsible for receiving data were no longer responsive to our multiple requests to proceed with testing and evaluation
    .

    Ahhh, yes, blessed government health monitors. Where would we be without ye?

    • Ozymandias

      Now look at the deaths from the Pfizer BNT vax on the VAERS site and someone try to argue we’re not witnessing one of the largest crimes against humanity.
      From Sep 10 – Oct 8 (exactly 4 weeks of data), the mRNA’s vaccines averaged 65.75 reported deaths per day.
      That’s just the simple math of 16766 dead the CDC reported from VAERS on Oct. 8 minus the 14925 dead that was listed on Sep. 10, divided by the 28 days.
      Again, now consider that the analysis by an independent health expert hired by the government believes that only 1% of adverse events are reported.

      NOTHING TO SEE HERE!! TOTALLY SAFE AND EFFECTIVE!!!

      • Gustave Lytton

        “safe and effective” = “Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life”

    • Plisade

      Serious question, how do they know the quantity of unreported adverse reactions?

    • The Other Kevin

      Also a serious question, how do they determine a death was caused by a vaccine?

      • Lackadaisical

        The same way they know it was covid what dun it?

  34. MikeS

    Really excellent article, SSD. This is the most I’ve ever read on this topic. Your stating that you are unsure made me want to hear what you had to say. I look forward to more.

    • Ozymandias

      No. Almost nothing that happens in DC and gets reported by the Media is a “coincidence.” It is the exact opposite of coincidence.

  35. Lackadaisical

    Since we’re stirring shit today, my skepticism of the medical establishment was truly started when I realized that routine infant circumcision is not the norm worldwide.

    Chew on that one too while you’re at it.

    • Ownbestenemy

      Chicken is brined, prepped, rubbed and seasoned for it to hit the smoker here in a bit. On another note, I sliced my finger, right by the edge of the nail pretty deep. I am sure I could rub some dirt in it and it will be fine.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Well…I guess it could possibly go here in response.

      • slumbrew

        Circumcision gets you in the mood for some smoked chicken? No kink shaming, I guess.

    • Ted S.

      I’m not chewing on any foreskin, thank you very much.

      • Plisade

        -1 Metzitzah B’Peh

    • Brawndo

      Same. One of the only times I won an argument with my wife was when I put my foot down against our son being mutilated.

  36. Scruffy Nerfherder

    OK I’m back.

    My son, whom I’ll refer to as Son (my great-grandfather’s actual name) is officially classified as having Asperger’s Syndrome, now officially Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD). He’s now almost 19 years old, and our journey with his health began just days after his birth with a real effort ramping up around age ten when his problems became so severe that he stopped growing.

    He has an IQ in the 150’s, yet a processing speed in the 25th percentile. He suffers from a variety of physical and mental ailments which will become clear as I describe the root causes of the issues.

    I’ll start at age ten. Son had stopped growing, had severe headaches and mood swings, and had a demonstrated capacity for rationalization of imagined events. We sought help from our pediatrician (who is coincidentally running the state legislature). He put Son through the standard autism diagnosis schedule and sent him to UVA for further testing. The results came in, he was Aspergers. Great, what do we do? The pediatrician recommended occupational therapy, the children’s hospital neurologist recommended some antihistamines for his headaches. That was it. I, at the time, was still fairly trusting of the establishment but getting irritated. However my wife found a doctor through the mommy network who specialized in this type of diagnosis. But she was one of those kooks who while not saying all vaccines are bad, didn’t think they were all good. I was suspicious, but agreed.

    When we brought Son to her, she spent five minutes with him and then started asking us questions. I thought “What is this?” but went along. I shortly realized that every one of her questions was about a behavior or symptom that Son had demonstrated in the past; spinning, sugar craving, headaches, etc… She then pivoted to my wife and started asking her questions like “Do you have an allergic reaction to jewelry? Yes. Do you have an elevated anxiety reaction? Yes. etc…” Now my curiosity was piqued. Tests were ordered, blood was drawn, urine collected, hair sampled, thousands of dollars spent…

    What did we find? Almost exactly what the doctor predicted we would find.

    – A double copy of the MHTFR defect on C677T
    – A systemic candida (yeast) infection in the gut (the worst the doctor had ever seen)
    – Aluminum poisoning

    We began antifungal treatment immediately. A word of caution to anyone faced with the same problem, the neurological effects of dying yeast in the system are severe and cause mental and emotional trauma. We were not really prepared for that even though we were warned. It was a long first month until it settled out. We began treating him with glutathione cream help the expulsion of the aluminum as well. We started him on methyl folate supplementation.

    What does the MTHFR C677T defect mean? It means the body cannot produce methyl folate through the normal biochemical processes. This lack of methyl folate interrupts a number of other biochemical pathways. One involves the immune system, another involves the expulsion of toxins from the body. When Son was injected with the Hep B vaccine on day one of life, he was injected with a vaccine cultured in yeast and using aluminum as an adjuvant to heighten the immune response. Normal kids fight off the minor amount of yeast and expel the aluminum. He did not. The yeast took up residence and burrowed into the lining of his gut. The aluminum floated around in his system and built up with each successive vaccination until it started causing neurological inflammation.

    Yeast infections are insidious. The fungus provides feedback to the brain through chemical releases that incentivizes the consumption of sugar. The holes that it burrows into the gut lining causes leaky gut syndrome whereby not fully digested food passes into the bloodstream causing immune reactions and actual, no-shit gluten sensitivity. The not completely broken down gluten molecule is called gluteomorphin and acts as a mild opiate, thereby creating a dependency of sorts.

    It was a rough few years for Son. But he persisted. He persisted through the hallucinations, the anxiety attacks, the general torpor and malaise. He really has walked through the fire without even knowing it.

    Senior year of high school was a relapse. His anxiety was off the charts, his appetite was suppressed and he was underweight. He was having suicidal thoughts and hiding them from us. When he came home from boarding school, he was a wreck. I decided that we needed to find another doctor and started searching. I found one in Burbank, CA who seemed to fit the bill, a psychiatrist who specializes in the MTHFR defect.

    More tests ordered, blood drawn, urine collected, hair cut, stool sampled, thousands of dollars spent….

    Two more double copies of mutations were found in the new round of testing:

    – TAQ1 – Prevents the sulfation of Vitamin D. You can take as much Vitamin D as you want, your body cannot use it even though you will show good Vitamin D levels on blood tests.
    – MAO A – Interrupts normal breakdown of neurotransmitters and leads to buildup of serotonin in the brain

    The first one is fairly straightforward to deal with. We got him a membership at a tanning salon. Within two days we’ve noticed a change in mood and attentiveness. It’s actually quite remarkable.

    The second one is an unknown as of yet. We will be meeting with the psychiatrist shortly to discuss and I expect there may be drugs involved for that treatment.

    It’s worth noting that these issues have cascading effects that lead to other symptoms and breakdowns in other pathways as your body attempts to compensate. It’s quite remarkable that Son is alive and functioning at any level. He can play a Bach fugue on the pipe organ but cannot remember to put his dishes in the dishwasher. As a parent, you’re simultaneously astounded at his resilience and talent and incredibly frustrated with his lack of coping and life skills.

    What’s the upshot of all of this? What are we to take away from it?

    Medicine is personal. The medical industry is not. Most doctors go by the book and don’t think outside of it.

    At every step prior to looking outside the system, Son was treated like a herd animal. He was to receive the same treatment that every other kid received. All the shots, all the standard operating procedures. At no point did any doctor in the system step back and say “This isn’t working. We need to look deeper.” Whether they were incentivized to be that way, trained that way, or they just didn’t care wasn’t of significance to me. The result were the same. Son was a number in the machine. You are a number in the machine. Your kids are numbers in the machine. We’re all numbers in the machine.

    As an engineer I was appalled, I was outraged when the realization hit me. I was trained to identify root causes and attack them. The medical industry is not. They treat symptoms. Pop a pill, see if it works. Treat the kids with addictive stimulants. Give them a painkiller, an SSRI, who the fuck cares what the long term effects are if it calms them down today. We have this incredible, amazing resource of genetic profiling at our disposal, and we recognize that our genetic makeup determines so much of who we are, yet we do not consider it when providing medical treatment nearly enough. Different people respond to medicines and treatments in different ways.

    In regards to the vaccines, we have no idea what the cumulative long-term effects of the ever-increasing schedule is doing to our children and to us. We don’t even fully understand the short term effects. It’s one huge experiment. Son was my canary in the coal mine who helped me understand that all of this comes with risks that we do not appreciate yet or even know of. But our betters have decided that to question is to deny their expertise and put the herd at risk, they’re perfectly willing to accept the downside for the individuals so long as the numbers look acceptable for the masses. Their viewpoint is at best utilitarian and at worst, opportunistic for their pocketbooks and their egos.

    And if you think Son is an outlier, consider this from the NIH:

    There are two MTHFR gene variants, called C677T and A1298C, that have been an active area of study. These variants are common. In America, about 25% of people who are Hispanic, and 10-15% of people who are Caucasian have two copies of C677T.[4]

    • Tundra

      Holy shit, Scruffy. What an ordeal.

      The medical industry is not. They treat symptoms. Pop a pill, see if it works. Treat the kids with addictive stimulants. Give them a painkiller, an SSRI, who the fuck cares what the long term effects are if it calms them down today.

      They need customers, not cures.

      Good luck with Son. He’s lucky to have you guys.

    • slumbrew

      Man, that’s quite the journey – your son is fortunate that you were willing to keep pushing.

    • Mojeaux

      Scruffy, that was heartbreaking to read. I’m so sorry.

      Do you think that Son will be living with you for the rest of his life? Is he able to work at a job?

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        He’s actually trying for a job as a pipe organist at a conservative Episcopal church right now. I think he’ll move out in time. We’re just trying to get his life skills in order so he doesn’t fall off his schedule when he does because the medical effects are severe when he doesn’t do what he needs to do. And he desperately wants to be on his own. The kid is highly intelligent but feels beaten down by the COVID regime and seeing other kids going off to school right now. He feels like he’s getting left behind.

        I’ll state again that the mood difference from the tanning sessions has been quite noticeable. He’s more alert and happier. Vitamin D deficiency is quite striking in presentation when you can see the shift like that.

      • Lackadaisical

        I’ve heard some people describe vit D as a hormone more than a ‘vitamin’.

    • Lackadaisical

      Sorry to hear scruffy.

      However my wife found a doctor through the mommy network who specialized in this type of diagnosis. But she was one of those kooks who while not saying all vaccines are bad, didn’t think they were all good. I was suspicious, but agreed.

      Those ‘mommy’ groups are great. AS you point out, most medical establishments don’t treat you, but rather the aggregation of people who present your symptoms. I think this probably also played a part in what Trashy’s mother went through.

    • robc

      My journey has been more positive, but still thought I would share:

      My daughter was about 1.5 and she was not progressing with eating. She was still on stage 2 baby food and even things like puffs she would immediately spit out. It was clearly textural, as she had no problem with most flavors.

      Also, getting her to drink fluids or take medicine when she was sick was next to impossible. Every fever for her first 3 years ended up with an ER trip do to dehydration.

      We started with a local feeding therapist. Being in a small town, there weren’t a lot of good options and the one we ended up at was really a speech therapist who also did feeding therapy (this is common and a big problem). She started pushing us on doing speech therapy as our daughter wasn’t talking. She had lost the few words she had. She would learn “Go” and that would be it, she would have a one word vocabulary for the next 6 months. We weren’t happy with this therapist and there was a well regarded speech therapist we switched to. After 3 sessions, she suggested we have her tested for autism as she was getting no response.

      A few days after our daughters 2nd birthday she was tested. Yup, autism. By this point, we were seeing all the signs, so weren’t surprised. 2 months later we started our daughter in ABA therapy. She would be in it for the next 15 months. We had started teaching our daughter sign language, they continued, she was up to a dozen or so signs when she started speaking. And hasn’t shut up since. At about 2.5 years old she started feeding therapy at a specialty program in Evansville (Hi Evan). She did that for a year before we left for South Carolina.

      The ABA program kicked here out after the 15 months, said to get her in a regular school. She is in her 3rd year of Montessori now. It is perfect for her. People think of it as unstructured, but it has a hidden structure that my daughter loves.

      This summer on our way out west, we spent a few days back in Evansville, she is cleared to not do feeding therapy anymore. We still have to work with her on some issues, but honestly, she eats better than most 5 year olds. She loves vegetables. And dry aged steak (sigh, I may have raised a monster).

      We got a new autism checkup about her 5th birthday earlier this year. She still has the diagnosis (over 50% of kids who go thru ABA therapy lose their autism diagnosis), but it was a close thing. Hopefully we have smooth sailing from here, but I have learned that there are lots of steps back along the way. We have seen it in 3 years, but things have mostly progressed forward.

      And we have only started using our 2023 HSA money, we have almost caught up!

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        If I may be so bold as to recommend something.

        https://www.holisticheal.com/dna-nutrigenomic.html

        This is what I wish we had at the beginning of all this. It is the starting point for a treatment regimen that offers some actual resolution.

    • Semi-Spartan Dad

      I’m really sorry to hear all of that Scruffy. Your son is really lucky to have parents like you to advocate for him.

      Absolutely, on the cascading effect. To your other point, most doctors are now technicians with advanced training. I think this is more of a recent development over the past couple decades as the whole concept of care has shifted. There are still some hold outs, especially among older doctors. The newest generation might as well be indoctrinated foot soldiers for the State though.

    • Sensei

      Thanks Scruffy. I know you’ve mentioned bits and pieces of this at different times and I’m glad to finally be able to read the whole story.

      As Tundra noted, what an ordeal. Best of luck and amazing job going through all that.

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      who is coincidentally running for the state legislature

      Oops

    • Ghostpatzer

      Wow. So sorry to hear this, but I think you and your son are amazing.

      The mechanistic approach to medicine is pretty recent. I am confident that I received better treatment as a poor child growing up in 1950’s Washington Heights. Dr. Stiller (David Stiller, yes I still remember his name) paid regular visits to our apartment to look after me and my constant strep infections. Pretty sure he didn’t always get paid. Medicine has a whole bunch of new and wonderful toys, but not sure what happened to doctors.

    • Ownbestenemy

      Wow Scruffy. Sister went through the medicine is personal, the medical industry is not with trying to get her daughter diagnosed with Turner’s Syndrome (didn’t until hormone therapy was near useless for her). So yeah, tough roads all around.

      Not to make light of anything here, but MTHFR gene variant sounds like something you would say once you hear you or a loved one is being affected…motherfucker.

    • Plisade

      “DOL and OSHA, as well as other federal agencies, are working diligently to encourage COVID-19 vaccinations. OSHA does not wish to have any appearance of discouraging workers from receiving COVID-19 vaccination, and also does not wish to disincentivize employers’ vaccination efforts. As a result, OSHA will not enforce 29 CFR 1904’s recording requirements to require any employers to record worker side effects from COVID-19 vaccination at least through May 2022. We will reevaluate the agency’s position at that time to determine the best course of action moving forward.”

      JFC

      • kinnath

        I posted this on FB. My first foray into the madness.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Well that’s a steaming pile of horseshit.

        Continue to track any problems for which we can blame you, but where the vaccine is concerned somebody might blame us so don’t track that one.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Well, I would keek the recording requirements because of it. Just says they won’t enforce the regulation, doesn’t mean the employer shouldn’t make sure his behind is covered.

  37. Ghostpatzer

    Finally got to this, been a long day. Someday we might know what causes autism (assuming it is a single disorder; I’m with you WRT to an umbrella diagnosis for multiple related disorders). The possibility of vaccines being one of the possible causes calls into question the policy of forced vaccination from a utilitarian perspective. As always the more fundamental issue of freedom matters to very few; questioning forced vaccination from that perspective largely falls on deaf ears.

    Thanks for the read, SSD.

  38. db

    I just have to say that this is one of the most informative and best-discussed threads I have ever seen on Glibs. I’m impressed with the content and the commentary. This place is full of amazing people.

    • Sensei

      Yes, we can be civil and mostly on content when the occasion calls for it.

      • kinnath

        nuh uh!

    • Tundra

      You take that back!

      *drops gloves*

      • db

        I *knew* you fuckers would be easy to bait!

        Have at you, then!

  39. Brawndo

    My 1 year old just got 4 vaccines today, but he’s probably at greater risk of developing autism because of his libertarian dad than the vaccines.