GlibFit 4.0 – Does Running Help Build Muscle?

by | Nov 28, 2021 | GlibFit | 303 comments

 

I have been scratching my head trying to figure out if running aids building muscle or impedes it. By running, I mean steady state running/jogging as opposed to sprinting. This is a perennial debate in the fitness community. While there is broad agreement some type of cardiovascular activity should be part of any fitness routine, running seems to draw the most disagreement.

 

I sure don’t have the answer. I have never been a big guy, so I do not even have personal experience to draw from. The evidence I have seen is conflicted but the idea you shouldn’t do any form of cardio while trying to build muscle is pretty much dead. You can go as far back as the movie Pumping Iron to see a huge Arnold Schwarzenegger jogging as part of his workout. I know Arnold was also doing massive amounts of steroids at the time. But it isn’t difficult to find natural bodybuilders who run as part of their regime.

 

 

The Bioneer makes the argument why steady state running benefits muscle gain. In a nutshell, steady state cardio depletes glucose stored in your blood. This leads your body to produce cortisol due to stress. This triggers the release of myostatin. Myostatin causes the breakdown of muscle. That sounds bad, so far, but it ignores the rest of the changes to your body.

 

The bigger picture is regular running will result in your left ventricle getting bigger. This produces better, more oxygenated blood flow. Your resting heart rate drops as does your stress level. This puts you in an anabolic state the rest of the time because you produced less cortisol and more serotonin. You deliver more oxygen and nutrients to your muscles both during a workout and at rest. So, running puts you in a more anabolic state more of the time.

 

 

Interestingly, while researching this article I couldn’t find anyone I respect who argues running is problem when building muscle. The sole exception is high mileage running but that’s something everyone appears to agree on. There is still the debate about whether HIIT is a better use of your time than running but I’m going to leave that for another day.

 

This week’s music.

 

About The Author

Chafed

Chafed

I'm looking California but feeling Minnesota

303 Comments

  1. DEG

    This puts you in an anabolic state the rest of the time because you produced less cortisol and more serotonin. You deliver more oxygen and nutrients to your muscles both during a workout and at rest. So, running puts you in a more anabolic state more of the time.

    Interesting.

    Weight is up. I’ve been eating too many baked goods.

    Deadlifts are going along. I haven’t moved up in weight yet as I’m still working on my form at the bottom of the lift. The last inch or so I tend to have a form breakdown.

    Face diapering at the gym is coming back. Blech.

    Music is… odd.

    • Chafed

      The baked goods will pass with the season. Glad to hear you can once again deadlift.

      • Zwak, sensual panzer

        Baked goods will also pass with the coffee.

      • DEG

        Oh shit. Every now and then I drink coffee.

        There are also the Pennsylvania Dutch treats I bring back from PA. Some are in freezer for later devouring.

  2. Drake

    Running will build some lean leg muscle. Not real bulky unless you are doing sprints or hurdles.

    • AlexinCT

      If you want to build leg muscles, do long hikes with extra weight on terrain that isn’t flat. I used to run a lot, and I had strong legs. I have a knee that is artificial and had to give up running about 7 years ago or get a new one, and replaced it with hiking. My leg muscles are a lot bigger and stronger from just hiking now (I tend to do about 5 miles a day and I can do as much as 30-40 miles on a weekend).

  3. Jerms

    I dont run anymore. Too much stress on the double fusion in my back. I end my workouts with 30 minutes of the stairmaster which isnt too hard on my back.
    Started eating low carb on Nov 1, and dropped a quick 13 pounds in the first 2 weeks but have been stuck at the same weight ever since.
    Got knocked out of ketosis about 10 days ago. I had salad at my MILs that had balsamic dressing on and I ate a big bowl without thinking. Not a big deal but have not been able to get back in since that day. Last 5 days Ive even cut out all cheese and artificial sweeteners and still nothing. Very frustrated.
    Didnt even cheat on Thanksgiving and still no goddamn ketones. Well trace amounts according the the blood meter I got yesterday but ten days straight with no carbs should have me in heavy ketosis.

    • westernsloper

      Are you tracking everything you eat? I use Cronometer and have it set up to track total carbs in keto mode. Very easy to get over 20g carbs a day. I got my blood ketone meter friday. I am ready to get serious about this shit! My understanding is after an initial run in ketosis, and as the body adjusts to burning fat, the liver can start dumping glucose in the mornings because the giant fat thing is stuffed with it. At least I know mine is. Some of my morning blood glucose readings are up there. It will eventually deplete but that takes time. Hang in there.

      • Jerms

        Im not writing stuff down but Im also not wating anything different than when I did get into ketosis in the beginning of the month. Ive actually cut out the sweetners and cheese. I also got some MCT powder and some pills that are supposed to help produce ketones—and nothing yet. Got a .7 on the meter and then ate a big juicy steak hoping that would help but only a .4.
        I also saw you mention starting something keto on the forum, I would definitely be interested but Im still just learning my way now.

      • IRBE

        Congratulation Jerms! It appears you have become fat adapted. You are burning ketones instead of micturating them. If you want to lose additional weight, fast.

      • Jerms

        Do you think that is what it is? How long should I fast for?

      • IRBE

        I would plan for 36 hrs. See how you feel after 24 hrs, if OK then go for the 36 hrs. Eat high protein before start of fast. Break fast with high protein/fat.

      • Jerms

        Ok, thats the plan then, thanks so much.

      • westernsloper

        Go for it Jerms. All the Docs I am listening to atm agree with IRBE. Fasting will do it. I am a few weeks from my first attempt at a real fast.

      • Sean

        Fwiw, Jerms, I never fasted.

      • Jerms

        Did you ever have trouble getting into Ketosis?

      • westernsloper

        Ya, I don’t know I am just learning too. I am also hearing overconsumption of protein can kill ketosis too because the body will turn it to glucose. Fuck if I know. I will see if I can figure out how to do something in the forum. Yesterday was the first day I signed into it since SP announced it.

      • Mojeaux

        What’s your water intake looking like?

      • Jerms

        One of the things I read today told me to drink more water, so today Ive had 3 tall glasses of water which is about 3 more than I usually have. Been drinking seltzer but usually only 1-2 glasses a day.

      • Jerms

        Another thing I forgot to add is that I feel great as far as energy and mood go. Im someone who gets very tired after eating any type of carbs and even though I havent lost much weight lately the way I feel makes it worth it.

      • Mojeaux

        At my best weight loss low carbing I was drinking about 2 gallons a day. Not seltzer. Just regular old water.

        Water intake is as important as counting carbs.

      • Jerms

        Ok, I dont know if I can do 2 gallons, I got the bladder of a pregnant woman, but I will up my water intake. Thanks

      • Spudalicious

        2 gallons a day will kill a normal person.

      • Mojeaux

        I guess I’m not normal, then. I was doing it. Drank until my pee ran clear and didn’t smell. I was also working a second job at Walmart (which I would get a second job in the winter to keep myself sane).

      • Spudalicious

        Hyponatremia can kill at much lower volumes than what you were drinking.

      • Mojeaux

        Ah. I was also eating LOTS of well salted protein.

  4. The Bearded Hobbit

    If you ever meet Deadhead you will find that he is as thin as a rail and he does ultra-marathon running. Extremely fit but not bulging.

    • westernsloper

      My guess is with the likes of Deadhead that is genetics.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        That sounds to me to be a great idea for a future Glibfit article: How much do genetics factor in fitness?

        I have had short periods where I got into good shape but find it very hard to maintain. I liken it to keeping three basketballs submerged in a swimming pool. Works for a while but inevitably breaks down.

        I recall meeting some of Mom’s aunts and uncles when I was younger. They all looked like potatoes on popsicle sticks. As for me, I’ve resigned to simply admit that I’m short for my weight.

      • Threedoor

        I put on muscle fast. It looks like that’s largely genetics. According to 23and me it’s the ACTN3 gene, two alleles, three combinations.

    • Chafed

      I have met him. He looks just the way you would expect an ultramarathoner to look.

      • Chafed

        If there are white Kenyans, then yes.

  5. R C Dean

    Up five pounds after a week of no exercise and . . . nonstandard eating.

  6. westernsloper

    Does Running Help Build Muscle?

    I’m sure it does. I did not build any muscle this weekend. I did consume a bunch though. I was really lazy all holiday weekend and I am ok with that. Eating was good, tequila consumption a bit on the high side. Fuckit.

    • R C Dean

      You’re not kidding NSFW.

      • Suthenboy

        Not safe for more than just work. Every one of those girls, no matter how much they try to look like the girl next door, have “I have a website and my boyfriend is in a band. Come get your Hong Kong Cooties right here!”

        Yikes.

        Sorry Q but it is true.

      • Q Continuum

        Such is why G-d invented antibiotics.

      • Suthenboy

        Some of that shit can’t be washed off even with gasoline.

      • DEG

        There is one in there who has started wearing an engagement ring/wedding ring in her more recent pictures she posts on reddit.

        Yeah, it could be a decoy. It might not be a decoy. Who knows?

    • Chafed

      Where were all these women when I was in my 20s.

      • DEG

        That’s a good one.

  7. Nephilium

    Weight’s been down a bit, but still relatively stable. I had scheduled some trips back into the spin classes this past week, but cancelled when the probability that I had the ‘vid went up high enough for me to get tested. Since I was trying to help out the studio, rather then suspending my monthly subscription, I’ve built up a backlog of ~20 classes to use (while getting 4 a month). So using them all up will be a challenge.

    • westernsloper

      You aint dead yet?

      • Nephilium

        The plague bearer has yet to stab me in my sleep. Only one more vacation day before I need to start working again, I’m not looking forward to that.

      • westernsloper

        ? One day is better than none days.

        I am trying to decide which week in Dec or Jan that I am going to take some vacation.

  8. Spudalicious

    Running has more to do with conditioning long fiber muscle, than bulking up on short fiber muscle. There is some benefit, but squats and such will do more to add bulk.

    • Fourscore

      Distance running develops the slow twitch muscles (long fiber) in contrast to sprints and hurdles, which build the fast twitch muscle. Generally speaking, linemen work on the fast twitch (40 yard), wide receivers the slow twitch.

      Mel Pender, Olympian and OCS classmate, was short, maybe 5’6″, stocky and fast. He ran the mile at OCS in about 5 minutes even, others, like me, tall and skinny, maxxed the event in 6 minutes. I was also a pack and a half a day cigarette smoker at the time.

      • Spudalicious

        Bingo.

    • westernsloper

      How was it that you isolated and then reproduced the Colonel Sanders muscle fiber?

      • Spudalicious

        Chin lifts. Asshole.

      • westernsloper

        ?

  9. IRBE

    Hi Chafed, Greetings from NOCAL-BEL. Thanks for edition! Nice easy hike, 4 mi with 800 ft. altitude.

    G-fit update: Sleep was very good. Food was delightful but too many carbs. Hike mileage was up to 42 miles. Wim Hoff/meditative “ancient man” techniques; Didn’t do any. Went to gym 2 times. Weight was up to 178! Didn’t fast.

    Goals: Failed goal weight range (175-170)… Still not dead from Covid…MB;MC

    My running days are long past. But, I have been following Peter Attia lately. He has some wonky yet interesting takes on exercise, fasting, food and aging. He talks about Zone 2 exercise for longevity. Basically it is exercising to a blood lactic acid target of 2 mmols, which is a non-accumulative level of lactic acid. Pinning down how to train at that level is at an aerobic level where you can just barely carry a conversation while exercising, quick hiking or biking. He of course actually measures lactic acid real time in his lab.

    Covid Update: Looks like the Moronic variant is spreading, again. My understanding is genetic variations of Covid identified to date are only about 15K competent variants from over 100K fully characterized Covid virus samples. For a respiratory virus, Covid virus is very genetically stable. Quite a lab specimen. Interesting that only a couple of the variants get the Greek label…

    To live better, fat adapt, skip a meal or three!

    • westernsloper

      Moronic variant….
      Ha

  10. Ozymandias

    Anything beyond moderate distance running will strip off muscle. This has been known among runners for a long time. Mark Allen – the triathlete legend – refers to this in his book on training from the 80s, recommending that distance runners supplement their training with resistance training (i.e. lifting heavy shit) in order to maintain muscle mass. Look at the physiques of runners whose specialty is any distance more than 800m. Then look at the physiques of 200m, 100m, pole vaulters, etc. up to about 800m. It makes sense when you think about it for a moment – any excess muscle mass is punished (with every step) when you get out to a mile or more. That’s why marathoners look like concentration camp victims; every excess ounce is punished over that distance. Combine that with the points made above about the density of muscle fibers and the difference between fast twitch and slow twitch muscle and their development by anaerobic and aerobic endeavors. One of Glassman’s great contributions was using weights – traditionally thought of as solely anaerobic endeavors – for extended aerobic efforts. That’s why you can get crazy fit doing that stuff – you get aerobic efforts and benefits from weights – without the muscle-wasting effects of repetitive pounding on the pavement.

    GlibFit – I’ve been doing the old school “play my way into shape” with hockey. Last week was 5 games in 4 days and I felt it. Two games this week and I’m adding in some rowing later in the week. (Running out of weed has also helped a lot, too.) I’m down about 6 lb and holding. Trying to get down another 10 to “fightin’ trim” in the low 180’s. I managed not to overeat on Turkey Day *and* we were out on the in-laws farm doing a lot of stuff outside.

    Keep on keepin’ on, Glibs! Just move a little more each day and be kind to yourself.

  11. Not an Economist

    I just found out a about a serious issue of global importance. Because of a poor growing season, Canada has had to tap their national reserve of … maple syrup. So rush to the store and buy up what you can to protect yourself from this international crisis.

    • UnCivilServant

      See, no one listens to me!

      • Ted S.

        Did you say something?

      • Ted S.

        At least this time it’s not colony collapse disorder.

      • Chafed

        Give it time.

      • TARDis

        I listened. Told my wife. She went to various stores today. Nothing. No one listens to me either. Fine. I have half a tiny bottle I’ll hide it in the basement.

      • UnCivilServant

        All I have is prickly pear syrup.

        No maple.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Plenty at the cash and carry yesterday. Vermont or Canadia.

    • creech

      Dammit, just today we bought the granddaughter a waffle/pancake maker.

    • Gender Traitor

      I use agave nectar on my waffles in the almost certainly erroneous belief that it’s somehow healthier than maple syrup. (Does “low-glycemic” mean a darn thing if you’re neither diabetic nor hypoglycemic?) Also, since it comes from Mexico it has no trouble at all getting across the US border.

      • Suthenboy

        Yes, it means something. I am convinced that stressing your pancreas over long periods of time induces diabetes. There is a lot o evidence for this but the most convincing piece is FDA wormtongues swearing that it does not.

      • westernsloper

        ….in the almost certainly erroneous belief……

        Ya, I had that one too.

      • R C Dean

        No matter what the marketing, agave is not low glycemic. It’s comparable to honey.

      • DEG

        Yeah.

        I have tea with honey and lemon almost every day, but I don’t put a huge amount of honey in it. Just enough to sweeten a bit.

      • Fourscore

        Oatmeal with a spoonful of honey, every morning.

      • PutridMeat

        Does “low-glycemic” mean a darn thing if you’re neither diabetic nor hypoglycemic?

        100% yes. Low glycemic index foods do not spike blood glucose, but have a slower, weaker peak in glucose levels whereas high glycemic index foods lead to a big spike in glucose. I would be less worried about the glucose spike but rather the insulin response since, IMO, sustained elevated insulin is the problem, not the glucose. You’re going to get a flood of insulin with a high GI food and over the long term, that’s not good. If you are metabolically healthy of course, insulin will spike up, store the glucose (either in the muscle or in fat) and return to normal low levels quickly. So in a healthy person, it probably is not a big deal, normal function of the body, though I’d prefer if insulin stayed low more often than not. But most of us are not healthy, even if we have good glucose control – might mean we’re just keeping insulin elevated more than we should and causing long term damage – and we’re not adapted to having large and frequent doses of glucose coming in (and hence large and frequent doses of insulin).

        Now as to whether agave is low GI – I have no idea, though as simple sugar, even if pure, probably not. I just stay away from sugars. But if it’s a once in a great while (for some value of great while) thing, you are generally metabolically healthy, and aren’t loading your body down with carbs (==sugar in the blood) continuously, I would venture it’s fine.

      • Tundra

        You need to test.

        I did some experimenting with glucose response after a large bolus of carbohydrates. As it turned out, sweet potato was far and away the worst for spiking my glucose. Bananas, blueberries, and honey were much, much lower.

        You are all special snowflakes. Program accordingly.

  12. hayeksplosives

    I am not going near a scale for a couple of weeks after thanksgiving.

    Still have a few delicious leftovers…

    Walking at work has been good. Buildings I need to visit are scattered around, so I can get some extra walking in throughout the day. Not sure how I will feel about that when it’s 110 degrees in summer, but it’s fine for now.

  13. Zwak, sensual panzer

    Just got back from a nice little VACA for the holiday, where I didn’t eat too much, nor drink too much. So, I got that going for me, which is nice. Worked out the request number of times this week and even got a walk in before the rains of death arrived. Again, nice. Need to clear some space and get by bike back together and do some winter riding here in a bit.

    But, I just spent 6+ hours sitting in my car for an emergency vet trip. Always fun, but this time it was just money, and my sassy pants old lady cat is much better.

    • DEG

      Good to hear your cat is better.

      • Zwak, sensual panzer

        Thank you.

    • Suthenboy

      For reasons I am unaware of my batch of wine last year did not turn out well. We will see in mid-december how this year’s turned out. Two years ago my bathtub muscadine wine was some of the best wine I have ever tasted.

    • DEG

      Everything is going down the shitter.

      • Suthenboy

        Ask a democrat and they will tell you that that is the plan.

        “There are too many people, too much prosperity, people have too many options that I dont approve of. We have to tear it all down and reset, build back better!”

    • Spudalicious

      I guess I’ll have to start working on the wine cellar.

  14. Ted S.

    I gotta go on a wine run this week anyway. Looks like a couple of boxes for me.

    • Ted S.

      Crap, I screwed up the threading.

    • Suthenboy

      A used tea pot? The first thing I notice is that the house appear bereft of furniture and furnishings in general. That person is broke and selling off everything they own, apparently including the shirt off of their back. Now they are down to one teapot.

      • Yusef drives a Kia

        Good call Suthen! I laughed

    • UnCivilServant

      That sort of ‘oops’ is usually deliberate.

      And I had a teapot of that design. they’re cheap, no need to buy one off ebay. The shipping probably costs more than retail.

  15. Threedoor

    When I could run all I would do was get hungry and then eat more. Which made me gain weight. Being in an environment of fake stress everyday was probably the biggest contributor to that though. Running five days a week was likely bad as well.

    • Ted S.

      Yeah, I’d like to walk more, but rifle-hunting season began last weekend. I’m not getting myself shot at.

      And today we got a coating of snow.

      Last season, however, it was dry the first three weekends after the season ended so the dog insisted I take him out in 25 degree weather. 🙂

      • Threedoor

        Is your fursona a buck by any chance?

      • Ted S.

        Are you into yiffing?

      • rhywun

        *backs slowly out of chat room*

      • Threedoor

        I have to look that up.
        I don’t want to.
        But I must.

      • Ted S.

        I figured if you used the word “fursona” you’d know what yiffing is.

      • Threedoor

        I didn’t. I have a friend who makes a living drawing manga style porn. I’ve told him he’d make more money drawing furries. He refuses. Dosent want to deal with them at all.

      • Threedoor

        My wife did take an ambian once and had hallucinations. I woke he up without realizing she had taken it and proceeded with bedroom activities. The next day she told me that she dreamed she was ravished by a wherewolf pirate.

      • Ted S.

        Mojeaux has a book about that.

      • Mojeaux

        *haughty sniff*

        I don’t do werewolves.

      • Threedoor

        But we may do you.

      • Fourscore

        I didn’t understand the first sentence, then I did.
        The little snow we had is gone, nicest, sunniest November I can remember.

      • Ted S.

        Here in the Catskills there’s a hunting (deer as the prey) season with bows from October to mid-November, and then with rifles from mid-November to a week before Christmas.

        One of the guys who used to come up and hunt on our woodlot fled NY to SC a few years back. 🙁

    • Threedoor

      I’ve watched some of that on the Columbia river. It’s pretty awesome.

      • westernsloper

        I had a buddy who lived in Hood River and he was into it. We first starting talking about it in 2000 when it kind of hit the scene and he ran with it I floundered. I can’t do it but I think it is the coolest sport invented.

      • Threedoor

        It’s amazing to watch. I’m not much of a swimmer and my body is shot. I sit on the beach and watch people have fun. The Hood river area is beautiful. My favorite antique shop is in Bingin.

      • tripacer

        Some good breweries in Hood River too..

    • Spudalicious

      What a great time to be alive, that this is a thing. Human and technological advancement combined.

  16. Tundra

    Chafed!

    Running is fine, but doesn’t do shit for getting bigger. I really, really wish I had never been a distance runner. It really did a number on my feet, ankles and hips.

    Honestly, I think most of your training at Maffetone levels with some HIIT mixed in is the best conditioning protocol.

    But what the fuck do I know?

    It was a decent week, even with Thanksgiving. Got out for a 5 miler yesterday, with 1,300 feet elevation gain. Steep little bitch but it was a blast!

    Have a great week, Glibfitters!

  17. hayeksplosives

    Ya know, this “Omicron” variant could be the best thing to happen to Covid. If people can catch what is essentially a cold that lasts just 1-2 days, and that confers immunity to the other Covid variants, that would be better and more effective than the vaccines.

    But then no one could get rich on vaccines or get their control boner on.

    • rhywun

      I’m not sure it matters with the media in full-on panic mode the way it currently is.

    • hayeksplosives

      Ok, how on earth does this make scientific sense?

      Biden’s travel restrictions do not ban flights or apply to U.S. citizens and lawful U.S. permanent residents.

      However, most non-residents who have been to Botswana, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa, Swaziland or Zimbabwe within the last 14 days will not be allowed to enter the country.

      • UnCivilServant

        Someone, somewhere knows that the president actually has the authority to deny entry of nonresidents under current immigration law, but citizens have the right to return to the country. It gives the appearance of doing something while not getting bogged down in yet another court fight.

      • UnCivilServant

        Oh, I left of “It’s not a scientific move, it’s a political one”.

      • Suthenboy

        Science Denier! Science Denier! Science Denier!

        *Standard Donald Sutherland pointing GIF*

    • Suthenboy

      Yes, cross immunity is probable.
      You are correct. The control freaks seem to be in panic mode and trying to convince everyone this is the worstess variant yet. Run! Hide under your bed!
      Pols are incompetent at nearly everything, including conjuring up boogey men. I hope the price they pay for their antics is very heavy.

      *Again, pathogens evolve to be benign, host evolve to be resistant.*

    • Name's BEAM. James BEAM.

      Absolutely, HX.

      Omicron (*sniff* it’ll always be “Xi” to me) could be the variant that ends the pandemic. That’d be awesome, so I’m sure our pols will do everything within their power (and many things outside of their power) to prevent this outcome.

      • rhywun

        “Nu” has a sad. ?

      • UnCivilServant

        Nu Variant sounds like a 90’s marketting ploy.

  18. UnCivilServant

    Question for glibs with better social skills (stop laughing, some of youse know how to people) – what are you supposed to say when you hear that someone who’s had a terminal illness from birth is on their deathbed after multiple transplants and sixteen or seventeen years of being kept reasonably alive?

    My internal reaction was “we all knew it was going to happen, no one is surprised.” but another part of my brain threw up the flag that this isn’t how I’m expected to react. And I’m out of clues.

    • Tundra

      Condolences are enough. No one needs the editorial content.

      • Zwak, sensual panzer

        Tundra nails it. For the people close to the dying, it is monumentally sad. No bit of logic will fix that for them.

        I went through this when my MIL passed away. She was dying, getting worse by the day the whole time I knew her. But my wife, who initially told me this, still broke down over it. Meanwhile, my father, dying of Alzheimer’s was expected, and while sad, I knew life has to go on.

      • DEG

        Tundra is correct.

    • Suthenboy

      “We all knew it was coming. I (you) thought I(you) knew I(you) was ready but when it comes you find out you aren’t ready. You are never ready. If there is anything I can do dont ask, just tell me what it is and consider it done.”
      If this is someone you know well say that and mean it.

      *I dont know how well you know the parties involved*

      • Suthenboy

        Preface with “I am so sorry to hear that”
        I tried to go bad and append that but my computer lost its cursor.

      • UnCivilServant

        I don’t know them very well, but they’re also family, which makes things even more awkward.

      • Suthenboy

        Then it is appropriate. Also, what GT says below. Or some combination of the two.
        The most important thing is for them to. know you empathize with them and are willing to help take some, even if only a little, of the weight off of them however you can.

      • Tulip

        Just go with Tundra’s advice. Say “I’m sorry, you have my condolences.” Then stop talking.

    • Gender Traitor

      I make no claims as to my social skills, but maybe the most appropriate thing to say would be something to the effect that even after all they’ve been through, you understand how difficult this time must be.

      • Gender Traitor

        You don’t need to mention this, but if much of the family’s focus has revolved around the care of the now-dying person, they may feel relief (and possibly guilt that they feel relief,) but the death is likely to leave a big hole in their lives.

      • UnCivilServant

        I don’t know about day to day, because they live a number of states away, so I only visited a few times in recent years.

        I suspect my aunt won’t take it well.

      • Gender Traitor

        If there were multiple transplants, it sounds as if someone was fighting hard to keep this child alive.

        And while one might argue that the time of year shouldn’t make a difference, it’s quite possible that the impending holidays make this situation even more painful for the family.

    • Threedoor

      I know I dont handle death situations well. Im pretty good with after care and a helping had after the fact with the family. A neighbor I became friends with was dying of cancer when I met him. His widow 12 years later since remarried is a family friend now. I e helped move the dead’s things. Beyond that I don’t know. My neighbor and I just talked like normal as his situation was normal to me since I met him till the day he died.

    • Fourscore

      Often and particularly when the death is not a surprise, after the initial shock has worn off one of the close relatives, like an adult child or a brother or sister will say something like, “Jim had suffered so long, he’s in a better place now” and that breaks the ice. Then the stories start, “Remember the time Jim got drunk and…” or “Were you there with us when Jim and I picked up these 2 girls and…

      Quickly the sorrow goes away and it’s time for lunch in the church basement and all the old friends get to see each other again.

      Two of my friends just died, funerals this week, both in their 80s. It’ll go exactly as I outlined. There is never time to say good bye. I tell my scattered family as they are leaving for home, “Good bye and I mean it” because after the “Best Used By Date” has passed one never knows if there is a tomorrow.

    • Sensei

      That’s both awful and expected.

      • UnCivilServant

        For a moment, I thought that was an answer to my question.

        Of course activists are waging war on reality, so stressing traumatized actual victims in the name of progress is fully in line with their track record.

      • Sensei

        That may be just a little too direct for your question. I’m in the Tundra camp there.

      • Suthenboy

        Misanthropy is the deepest root of progressivism. Any institution that brings joy, builds character, etc has a bullseye on it. It is why many progs are trying to force us to eat bugs and take away the foods we really like to eat. Everything they advocate for is calculated to diminish and punish humankind.

      • trshmnstr the terrible

        Yup. It’s a religion whose theology is focused on ridding the protagonist (Gaia) of the parasitic infestation of oversmart monkeys.

      • hayeksplosives

        I think “Sarah” is spot on that the guy is there for voyeuristic reasons.

        She’s also correct that the group dynamic of a women-only group is different than a men-only group or a mixed gender group.

        If this dude really needs mental health support (whether due to sexual assault or his body dysmorphia) he should go to a trans support group, not go crash a women’s group.

      • rhywun

        One does wonder how far the left is willing to go with this fantasy.

        They have laid the ground for destroying women’s athletics, disrupted women’s prisons, and now this.

        I get the sense they’ll go as far they want to, results be damned, and nobody is going to stop them.

    • Suthenboy

      By the time the progs finish helping and supporting women they will all be barefoot, pregnant, in the kitchen and unable to vote or own property. How long before the progs advocate for mandatory burkas?

      • AlexinCT

        I love the way the patriarchy wins by allowing trans dudes to compete with and beat women.

      • TARDis

        mandatory burkas?

        You mean Freedom Scarves, right?

      • UnCivilServant

        Anti-patriarchy robes.

      • hayeksplosives

        Nah, women would never submit to being required to cover up their faces.

        Oh, wait…mask wearing is more common among women than among men.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        Check out the prevalence of veils in women’s fashion in the 1940’s. I think that it is stylish; Mrs. Hobbit says, “No way!”

      • hayeksplosives

        Doing it as an occasional fashion is one thing; being watched by the Morality Police is something else.

        TW: Democratic Underground

        Ignore the inane text; the photos are interesting. Here are group photos of women at Cairo University over the years.

        https://www.democraticunderground.com/10024727575

      • rhywun

        O hobbit, I have a question.

        Are “The Hobbit” movies any good?

        I’m bingeing LofR this weekend. Your folk are entertaining but I don’t know if I can take another three movies of you.

      • rhywun

        the photos are interesting

        It is interesting. My neighborhood is one of the centers of this stuff in NYC and it closely resembles the 1995 photo – about one-half modern and one-half full regalia (both men and women).

      • rhywun

        I think that it is stylish

        #metoo

        I wonder what was up with that.

        Then again, I like the flapper look even more.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        Are “The Hobbit” movies any good?

        First of all, I was highly annoyed that they made the same number of “Hobbit” movies as the number of “LoTR” movies even though there were six times the number of books in the latter.

        I sat through the first Hobbit move at the theatre and about halfway through I wished I was doing something else.

        We rented the second Hobbit movie for home and about halfway through I walked away and did something else.

        Never saw the third Hobbit movie.

        As bad as it was, the Bashki version was better.

      • rhywun

        6x? Do you mean each book is 2x the length of The Hobbit?

        But yeah, the major concern is the lack of source material. Not that I have completed any of the books but still.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        Each of the LoTR books was actually two novels in one. If I recall, the publisher wanted 3 books rather than 6.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        “was” = “were”

      • rhywun
      • UnCivilServant

        I seem to recall it the other way, LoTR got chopped into three from a single book.

      • rhywun

        Each of the LoTR books was actually two novels in one.

        *consults bookcase*

        Oh yeah, that’s right. Though each is only around 200 pages.

        Do you even doorstopper, J.R.R.?

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        UCS-

        You might be right. It would have been a huge single volume, though.

      • Threedoor

        I didn’t make it through the first Hobbit movie. It started going south before the encounter with the trolls.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        The “comic relief” of the Green Wizard (or whatever the hell he was called) killed it for me.

      • Threedoor

        Radagast the brown

      • Zwak, sensual panzer

        There has been a leather-bound, single-volume version of LOTR for a long time. Yes, it is big and thick (ahem) but not really any different than GRRM or Robert Jordan.

      • Sensei

        Interesting is that I had to disable my VPN proxy to read DU.

      • TARDis

        Doh! I keep confusing Hijab and Burka. My bad. Pardon my patriarchy.

    • db

      Marla Singer inverted?

    • The Bearded Hobbit

      There is an excellent (but not well-known) novel from Michener called “Caravans” that references this.

    • hayeksplosives

      Kabul used to be a tourist destination. I see several captions talking about “Afghanistan before Taliban”. But didn’t the reversion to full coverage and not going out without a male relative happen a decade or two before the Taliban?

      Either way, it’s a reminder that “civilization” doesn’t always progress to more freedom.

      There was a student exchange thing at Virginia Tech several years ago, in which a mixed gender class of Saudi Arabian engineering students came to V Tech for a semester. The male students insisted on having a separate classroom from the females, just like they did in Saudi Arabia.

      To my dismay, V Tech acquiesced to their demands. I thought, if there is any merit in this program at all, it should be to show them American culture, like being in mixed gender classes. That was disappointing.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        Now do “white” students want a different classroom from “black” students. Or vice-versa.

      • rhywun

        The Americans who went to SA demanded, and received, co-ed classes, right…?

      • db

        heh heh

      • hayeksplosives

        I was inaccurate in calling it an “exchange”. No American students went to Saudi Arabia; it was one-way. This was a few years post 9/11, and I think the American proponents thought it would reduce islamaphobia to have them on campus. Ideally the SA students could have picked up something positive about America too, but America was in full “we suck as a nation and have a horrible colonial history” mode by then.

      • Suthenboy

        JFC, what cowards. I wonder how much of daddy’s money the school got for caving?

      • Gustave Lytton

        Some of it yes. Soviet invasion was 79 to prop up the commie regime that overthrew the king. That destroyed a lot of the western looking society and later the buildings. By the time the Taliban took over after winning the post soviet civil war, islamification was already in full swing. The difference with the Taliban was it was full on reactionary vs the garden variety Islamic conservatism that’s dominant in the Middle East these days.

    • Suthenboy

      There is no excuse for that. None. Not for them and not for us. No excuse.

    • Gustave Lytton

      Yeah, the Muslim world has largely regressed in the past 50 years.

      Once upon a time, I thought it might be possible in 20-30 years to visit Afghanistan or Iraq. Similar to the period that Vietnam opened to American tourists. Hah, not happening.

      • Suthenboy

        I can remember when Afghanistan was a place to visit and Americans were welcomed there. I think the rise of Wahhabism is responsible for a lot of what we see today. The Soviets and then the US threw gas on the fire. Much of the ME is lost to Islamic extremism for who knows how many generations.

      • Threedoor

        The ect team ones are those that don’t throw gays off of rooftops.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Wahhabism is both a cause and symptom I think. Similar to the 79 revolution in Iran. Reactions to previous ills.

      • Zwak, sensual panzer

        It was a bad year across the Muslim world. In a way, it is similar to what is happening with the Left in the western world. Hopefully, we don’t end as fucked as Islam, but it is essentially a “take my ball and go home” type of thing for both. Obama and Biden are both showing the lack of any positive effect of many of the dreams of the left democratically; economic, environmental, diplomatic. The only way to achieve those goals is authoritarian.

        ’79 showed Islam to be a failure in its ability to keep pace with the west, so it retreated into religious orthodoxy.

  19. rhywun

    I just tried to make parmesan “chips” (actually, 4C parmesan-romano mix – pre-grated and no cellulose). Maybe I need a thicker layer; it’s like trying to eat snowflakes.

    It is supernaturally delicious, though.

    • Sensei

      You are better off with using a block of cheese and grater or microplane.

      • rhywun

        Makes sense now that I think about it. Next time!

    • Loveconstitution1789

      We have a recipe for jalapeno bites, which are effectively cheese chips with bacon and jalapenos on top.

      Grease/oil foil on cookie sheet.

      Small piles of grated parmesan. Top with small pile of shredded cheddar. Add jalapeno ring to each pile. Sprinkle with some
      Crispy bacon pieces and grind pepper on each pile.

      350F for about 8-10 mins. Let stand for about 2 mins until spatula slides right under chips.

  20. Nephilium

    That was a crazy two minutes to end the half in the game. Browns offense needs to step up, the defense has been pretty damned solid today.

    • Nephilium

      /retreats to a beer after that game

      /has tickets to the game in two weeks

      • slumbrew

        That was ugly all around, but I was pulling for you guys.

      • slumbrew

        Great respect for Garret for the Ron Burgundy homage during the into clips:

        “I’m Miles Garret?”

      • Nephilium

        Myles Garrett is awesome. There was the play where Lamar got away from him and Clowney to complete that pass for a TD. Myles walked up and shook Lamar’s hand, while Clowney threw his helmet to the ground (which should have probably pulled a flag).

        The girlfriend is now worried she won’t be clear of her ‘vid restrictions before the game. I’ve let her know that I doubt I will have problems finding someone to go with me if she’s still sick.

  21. Yusef drives a Kia

    ’22-’24 is going to make or break our nation, Dems keep pushing, and now the Normals are pushing back, Parents, anti vaxxers, Black folks and more. I love this country, and want to keep it, but the Commies are pushing us to fight back, and good luck with that,

  22. straffinrun

    Evening Glibs. Gonna be offline for a while. My mom passed on Saturday night and we’re dealing with the arrangements as best as we can. She had a long, full life so we’re focusing on the good and trying not to get too upset over all the restrictions that are blocking us from holding a proper service. Love this community and wanted to at least give y’all a reason for my absence. Peace.

    • Nephilium

      Sorry for your loss straff.

    • Yusef drives a Kia

      Sorry Bro, Mom’s are priceless,

    • Mojeaux

      Oh, I am so sorry, Straff.

    • creech

      Condolences and only the best memories.

    • db

      I’m very sorry to hear of your loss. Hang in there.

    • MikeS

      So sorry to hear that, Straff. Hang in there.

    • hayeksplosives

      You have my deepest sympathies.

    • Suthenboy

      I am so sorry to hear that. My condolences straff.

    • The Bearded Hobbit

      Sorry, Straff

    • Gustave Lytton

      I’m sorry Straff and condolences. That’s got to be doubly hard dealing with it from a distance.

    • Fourscore

      We are saddened by your loss, Straff. We’ll be waiting when you come back. Our sympathies are with you and your family.

    • Sensei

      Sorry straff.

    • straffinrun

      Thanks for the messages of support. Was wondering whether to say anything but I figured I’d want to know if it happened to one of you. A lot of funerals over the past decade. The price you pay as you enter your mid 50’s.

    • Tundra

      Sorry straff.

      We love you and Mom. Be well.

    • Tulip

      So sorry, Straff.

    • slumbrew

      Sorry to hear, Straff

    • Zwak, sensual panzer

      Sorry for your loss. Peace be with you.

    • Spudalicious

      Take care, brother.

    • Sean

      Sorry straff, my condolences.

    • robodruid

      So sorry Straff, never a good time.

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      My condolences to you.

    • Gender Traitor

      Belated condolences, straff. Please take care, and vent here as necessary.

    • l0b0t

      Oh Straff, I am so sorry for your loss. May her memory be a blessing.

    • The Hyperbole

      So sorry, Straff.

    • Festus

      I missed it. Sorry, Bud. Draw a portrait of her as you best remember her. Young and vibrant at the beach with her family.

  23. Yusef drives a Kia

    OT: After a few weeks of talk, Angela came over for the weekend, that means Angela, her daughter Zyla, Bertha the dog, and even Otis the kitten. Hilarity watching Sophie and the kitten interact, Bertha was just happy. Dinner was next, we looked like short order cooks, grilling burgers, sauteing onions and general frivolity, then came Game time. Cards against Humanity is a blast, 6 straight hours of laughter and evil. When we awoke it was just blaaaa, burnt out and happy, we all had a peaceful, happy weekend with zero stress, good for all of us.
    /End of report

    • db

      Sounds idyllic. Glad you had a relaxing, good time.

      • Yusef drives a Kia

        We are just friends, but we are pretty alone up here, so us Cali kids stick close, and it was nice to have a little family noise in the house,
        thanks db!

    • dbleagle

      We played CAH at Thanksgiving. The teens and 20’s proposed it thinking they would embarrass the olds. It didn’t work. We olds got the younguns jaws to drop multiple times.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        Congenital adrenal hyperplasia?

      • Yusef drives a Kia

        Cards Against Humanity, a very Glib game.

      • Threedoor

        It can be pretty fun.

      • Yusef drives a Kia

        The kid beat our asses, 2:1 She has quite the vocabulary and a singeing wit,

  24. slumbrew

    I just drove our bloated carcasses home from a week at my MIL’s. Too much food in general, way too many delicious carbs, too much to drink and no rowing machine.

    Back on the machine tomorrow and lots of salads this week (lots of leftover turkey for those salads). Maybe I’ll step on the scale in a few days.

    • slumbrew

      Big point in favor of running – it requires minimal equipment and is pretty easy to do while traveling.

      My wife got her runs in this week. I was a slug (dog walks and moving firewood for my MIL aside)

  25. rhywun

    LOL today in hypocrisy… woke anti-cop gov candidate lives on an Army base in my neighborhood. This clown has been failing upwards for a decade or more. Love the comic-sans button.

    • slumbrew

      CWAA. Good thing this sort of reporting will limit his political ambitions.

      (yeah, that’d be nice)

      • hayeksplosives

        No kidding. Although in a heavily Democratic city or state, I’d think there’d at least be competition to get the party nomination.

        I can’t take anyone seriously who uses the phrase “racial justice.” Justice, in reference to a crime, is done when the guilty are punished, the innocent are exonerated, and/or or restitution is made to the victims. Any other use of the term is unoriginal poetry that has no meaning.

      • Yusef drives a Kia

        Orwell was correct, Newspeak is real,

      • dbleagle

        Not mentioned in the article was Ft Hamilton were the additional services like inexpensive day care, library system, and that his utilities are covered in the price of the rent.

        There are MP’s on the base, but no operating tanks.

      • tripacer

        Pretty sure the E4 mafia has enough 19K’s available to make a few tanks operable.

      • l0b0t

        Ft. Hamilton is alright; they have a nice officers club. IIRC, it’s the APO/FPO sorting location for the mail going to bases in the East. Just across the bridge is Ft. Wadsworth; a much better post. Wadsworth houses a wonderful secret underneath the Chaplain’s Assistant’s motor pool. The original PIT, former headquarters of Counter Terrorist Strike Force Delta, code named G.I. JOE.

      • slumbrew

        Any modifier to “justice” means something other than actual justice.

      • rhywun

        Yeah, I dunno. His current position is the same one that Mr. de Blasio used to occupy. It was specifically designed as a do-nothing platform for Democrats to tread water in while they build name-recognition and raise money for higher office. His chances are at least as high as any of the other corruptocrats being floated.

      • Yusef drives a Kia

        Why do I keep thinking we are fucked? this is why

      • rhywun

        Nah, none of them have national appeal. Look at De Blasio’s pathetic run for president.

    • slumbrew

      But how can i signal my social superiority if I can’t bring my own food container?

      • Gustave Lytton

        Next up will be some regulation “allowing” customers to bring their own food to the restaurant for the chef to prepare.

    • creech

      This is against federal law? A buddy, watching his weight, always brings a tupperware container with him when he eats out. No restaurant has ever questioned his use of it instead of their flimsy and poorly sealed foam boxes.

    • Threedoor

      Gawd I hate Kate brown and jay inslee. I’m about to go postal over the plastic bag bans.

      • tripacer

        They are selling slightly heavier than normal “reusable” bags here for .08. Its still a plastic bag, but the kind that no one will ever reuse. Too light to actually take back to Winco, too heavy to use to clean the cat litter. (apparently)

      • Threedoor

        Yeah. The Walmart ones say they are reusable up
        To 125 times. BS. I just take them. The faschists dont get my 8c.

      • Plinker762

        Working on a project at Lookout Pass. The Silver Valley is looking better all the time. Too had all the I5 assholes moved there.

  26. slumbrew

    Aww, my alma mater made the Top 10 on ESPN. That’s a rarity.

  27. Yusef drives a Kia

    want to get depressed? Come to Glibs, The reality here will stun you,
    Good night kids

    • Gustave Lytton

      Totes different. That was just an office building in flyover country, not the people’s temple.

      See also attack on Rand Paul, softball game shooting, disruption of congressional hearings, occupation of state capitols, attacks on federal courthouses and other facilities, assaults on federal officers and employees during riots, etc etc.

    • Gender Traitor

      Ah, yes! Time to bring out the book and give it pride of place on the coffee table! And a quick reread, of course.

      Also, thankfully, I have the original animated Grinch on DVD so I can be sure to get my annual fix. Maybe I’ll hunt up a copy of WfWtW, too.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        I love Bloom County. How have I never heard of this?

  28. Sean

    My whole house still smells like roast pork.

    That’s not a bad thing.

    • limey

      Since the topic is raised I’m going to go ahead and suggest that the evidence of neurological damage to developing brains (mostly teenage boys?) is a genuine concern and should be taken into account in any discussion. All the arguments for “legalizing” marijuana I hear or read seem to avoid this topic, and also tend to not be argued from principle. I wonder how many schizophrenics and psychotics who find their way into the prison systems of developed countries were pushed over the edge by cannabis use in their teens/early twenties.

      Something else to consider is that weed here in the UK is very strong compared to the mild strains you apparently smoke in the USA. We’re talking a lot higher THC content than the grass people smoked back in the ’60s.

      ?‍♂️

      I suppose I am frightfully authoritarian for even bringing it up?

      Anyway. Mornin’ Glibs.

      Another thought:

      It’s hard not to be very “black pilled”, but then remember it’s all a relentless campaign to demoralise and immiserate. Have any of you picked up your copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four recently? Consider O’Brien’s explanation of just how The Party maintains its control over everyone. We often refer to things as “Orwellian”, but how well have you studied just what is laid out so starkly in the book?

      Winston was a man without God. Would faith have been the one thing that saved him from O’Brien’s complete breaking of him?

      ?

      • rhywun

        We’re talking a lot higher THC content than the grass people smoked back in the ’60s.

        Same in the US. Hell, way stronger than it was in the 90’s too.

      • Trigger Hippie

        Yeah, the stuff I smoke usually is in the 20-30 percent THC range. Sometimes stronger. Nothing like the Mexican swag I smoked as a kid.

    • rhywun

      I can do without all the “social equity” hoo-haw but really was there any other way this would turn out?

    • Festus

      Even up here in Redneckanada the societal pressure toward OBEY is mighty strong. We reliably vote Tory Blue but there is one thing to remember about that voting bloc – they skew much older and thus fear the China virus much more than they rationally should.

      • Ghostpatzer

        “they skew much older and thus fear the China virus much more than they rationally should.”

        I’d think older folks have more to worry about if the mortality rates are to be believed. And yet here in the PRNJ most of the old ones DNGAF, while the younguns are running around with masks. Gah.

      • Festus

        I think we have a disproportionate “Karen” population here, especially in the tonier suburbs. The ladies will vote Tory for their financial interests but secretly think that Justin is dreamy. The median age of this city skews a little older than I. Many scarves are worn to camouflage turkey necks.

      • Ghostpatzer

        No love for turtlenecks? “Turtlenecks for Turkey Necks” would be a great marketing slogan.

      • Festus

        Agreed! This is why all those old actors used to wear ascots.

    • rhywun

      I would expect way higher than 62% if it were ever put to a vote in my city or state.

      Narrator: Propaganda works.

      • Festus

        Yep, my best guess is at least 75%, probably higher.

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE IF YOU DON’T WEAR THE MASK AND GET THE JABS

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        That does seem to be the fallback public health position but getting vaccinated to head off a variant that’s concerning because it can get past the vaccine doesn’t make any sense.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Sense was abandoned a long time ago.

        As Bret Weinstein likes to point out, if they were actually serious about improving outcomes with the best bang for the buck, they would have told everyone to take Vitamin D and get some fresh air and exercise.

      • rhywun

        Pfft they just have to turn a couple knobs and flip a couple switches to cook up a vaccine for each new variant.

      • UnCivilServant

        Especially since it doesn’t have to work and they face no liability for adverse effects.

      • Ghostpatzer

        Should have gone long pharma years ago. A license to print money guarantees profitability.

      • Festus

        “Long Pharma” – Thai porn star?

  29. Ghostpatzer

    Mornin’ all. Been away for a few days, I see the world is still crazy. The Omicron doom should last another week or two, then probably a return to climate change. Although ginning up rage against warming can be tough in the winter. Wait, it’s summer in the Southern Hemisphere, a heat wave in Australia will work.

    Festus, hope everything is OK with you…

    • Festus

      Thank You, Friend. Waiting for the hammer to fall. We’ll see.

    • Gender Traitor

      Good morning, ‘patzie! I admire your optimism re: the latest variant hysteria, but we haven’t run out of Greek letters yet. If they get to the end of the alphabet, maybe they’ll start combining them like fraternities and sororities.

      • Ghostpatzer

        Mornin’ GT!

        “maybe they’ll start combining them like fraternities and sororities.”

        We already did that – my fraternity went co-ed in 1971, first to do so. Got kicked out by the national, but survived as a local. They have sadly gone full woke, it was nice while it lasted.

      • Festus

        I might have seen some grainy footage of that.

  30. Festus

    Arrived at work last night and the building was deserted. Apparently they shut the highways down again. Pictured, Me – https://youtu.be/5fH2FOn1V5g

    • Ghostpatzer

      Glad to see your transition was successful!

      • Festus

        Victor/Victoria. I couldn’t pull that off in a million years.

  31. UnCivilServant

    Morning, glibs.

    Is it breakfast pizza if it’s just pizza for breakfast?

    • Festus

      Fry an egg and put it on top.

    • Ghostpatzer

      Cold pizza and warm beer, breakfast of champions the morning after a frat party.

      • UnCivilServant

        No beer, and I warmed up the pizza.

      • Gender Traitor

        Warming up the pizza in the morning magically transforms it into breakfast pizza.

      • UnCivilServant

        The fun part – it wasn’t even leftover pizza. I tried to make it, but apparently was out of it and forgot to sauce.

        still, pepperoni cheeze bread is tasty.

  32. Tres Cool

    suh’ fam
    whats goody

    • UnCivilServant

      I forgot to sauce the pizza. I must not have woken up early enough. So I guess it’s not pizza.

    • Gender Traitor

      Good morning, homey! I may have a busy day in store for me – if they all show up, we may have four new hires starting today, all of whom have to be entered into the payroll system, Then I may have to get after our payroll processor to find out why I’m not seeing any contributions to our 401(k) plan since mid-October. They’re supposed to be submitting those after every biweekly payroll. ?

      • UnCivilServant

        “December is after october.”

      • Festus

        Someone has a secret gambling addiction?

    • Festus

      Speaking with my friends on the morning crew! That’s goody!

      • Tres Cool

        And the beers are going down like I have tonight off or something.
        wait- I DO have tonight off

        TALL CANS!