USS INGRAHAM (FFG 61) – a great ship to serve on.
Captain Duncan Nathaniel Ingraham
The sloop USS St Louis
“United States Ship St. Louis, Smyrna, July 3, 1853.
Sir : It becomes my duty to report to you an affair at this place, in which I have taken upon myself to compromise the American flag.
I arrived here upon the 23d of June, and, soon after anchoring, was informed that an American had been kidnapped by the Austrian consul upon the Turkish soil, and sent on board an Austrian brig-of-war.
I sent for the American consul, and informed him of what I had heard. He told me the man was a Hungarian refugee, (named Martin Koszta,) who had a certificate of intention to become a citizen of the United States, and came here in an American vessel, but that he did not consider him under his protection, having, to his knowledge, no passport.
The consul and myself then went on board the brig and requested to see the commander, but were told he was not on board. We then went to the Austrian consul and demanded to see Koszta, which, after some demur, was granted. After a conversation with Koszta, I was afraid I had no right to demand him as a citizen of the United States, but determined neither to make a claim, nor acquiesce in his seizure, until I could hear from the legation at Constantinople. I was guided in this opinion by the consul, who seemed to think we could not use force without more evidence than the paper in his possession gave. I then requested the consul to write immediately to the legation, which he did. Before an answer could arrive, I received information that Koszta was to be sent to Trieste. I immediately wrote to the commander of the brig, protesting against this step, and received a verbal reply that he was ignorant of any such intention. Next morning, at daylight, I got under way and anchored within half-cable’s length of the brig, and loaded my guns ; the steamer, in which it was said Koszta was to be sent, being very near. At 11 a. m. an answer came from Mr. Brown, stating that Koszta was an American citizen, and advising the consul to give him all aid and sympathy, but in an unofficial way. I then told the consul he must insist upon Koszta remaining until I again heard from the charge. He did so, when the Austrian consul told him he had intended to send the man that day, but would wait until the next mail. On Saturday, the 2d of July, the capon oglan of the legation arrived with letters from the charge to the consul and myself to use stringent measures.
I immediately had an interview with Koszta, in which he claimed the protection of the American flag. I then addressed note “B ” to the commander of the brig, demanding Koszta’s release. I also directed the American consul to furnish the Austrian consul with a copy of the demand, which was done.
At this time the Austrian brig and a 10-gun schooner, that arrived the day before, prepared for action ; having three mail steamers to assist. I did the same, and awaited the hour of 4 p. m. At 12 our consul came off with a proposition that Koszta should be delivered into the hands of the consul general of France, to be held at the joint order of the American and Austrian consuls until his nationality should be determined. After some consideration, and the advice of the English and French consuls to ours, I agreed to the terms. The prisoner was then landed, amid the cheers of the inhabitants and every demonstration of joy. I know, sir, I have taken a fearful responsibility upon myself by this act ; but after Mr. Brown had informed me Koszta had taken the oath of allegiance to the United States, and forsworn all allegiance to Austria; that he was an American citizen, and had been under the protection of the legation at Constantinople, I could not hesitate to believe he was fully entitled to protection. It was a case of life and death, for if Koszta had been taken to Trieste his fate was sealed ; and could I have looked the American people in the face again if I had allowed a citizen to be executed, and not used the power in my hands to protect him for fear of doing too much? The easy manner, also, in which he was given up, and the convention that he should be held by a third party until his nationality could be established, is evidence that they were not sure of their ground.
Should my conduct be approved by you, sir, it will be one of the proudest moments of my life, that I have saved this gallant man from a cruel and ignominious death. On the other hand, should the course I have pursued be disavowed, I must bow to the decision ; but what-ever may be the consequences to myself, I shall feel I have done my best to support the honor of the flag, and not allow a citizen to be oppressed who claimed at my hands the protection of the flag. I enclose copies of all the papers (A to E) relating to this affair. I have the honor to be, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
D. N. INGRAHAM,
Commander.
Crest of the USS INGRAHAM (FFG 61). (The alternate motto we had was “Last and Finest”)
USS CHUNG HOON (DDG 93) – returning to port at the end of deployment Oct 2013 – which means I’m probably somewhere in that picture.
The second ship I’ll discuss in this article is – by no coincidence – the second ship I served on. In keeping with several military traditions, the USS CHUNG-HOON (DDG 93) was the first “Hawaiian Destroyer” – although it will soon be joined at Pearl Harbor by the USS DANIEL INOUYE (DDG 118). Like Duncan Ingraham, Gordon Pai’ea (Hawaiian for “Hard Shell Crab”) Chung-Hoon was not a Medal of Honor winner, but he was still a war hero with a long and distinguished career.
Rear Admiral Gordon Pai’ea Chung-Hoon
Gordon Chung-Hoon was notable not only for being the first Asian American graduate of the US Naval Academy (class of 1934), but also for being a star half-back and punter on the football team. (Unfortunately I haven’t been able to locate a copy of his football portrait we had hanging in the ship’s wardroom – but here are a few others).
Sports Illustrated Dec 22 1958 – Silver (25th Anniversary) All Americans
Early 30s – US Naval Academy
For better or worse, one of Chung-Hoon’s first assignments was the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor. Thankfully he had spent the night in Honolulu on a weekend pass and was on his way back to the ship on Sunday morning when the Japanese attacked on 7 Dec 1941. He had several other assignments, before being given command of the destroyer USS SIGSBEE (DD 502) in May 1944.
Hard at work (should probably be more paperwork involved – and coffee)
USS SIGSBEE (DD 502)
Commander Chung-Hoon and SIGSBEE participated in numerous actions until a battle off the coast of Okinawa on 14 April 1945 – he earned a silver star several days earlier. While screening the battlegroup as a radar picket, SIGSBEE assisted in the destruction of 20 planes before being hit by a kamikaze aft of her number 5 gun. Despite damage severe enough that Admiral Halsey directed Commander Chung-Hoon to scuttle his ship, the commander directed damage control efforts until they were able to restore enough systems to make port in Guam under their own power (there was some towing involved somewhere). (This may also have been a case in which the ship was forced to make the entire trip in reverse due to the damage – but I may be mixing that up with another story).
The Commander told the Admiral he would not abandon ship because “…I have kids on here that can’t swim and I’m not putting them in the water. I’ll take her back.”
Kamikaze hit aft of the #5 Gun
Like the other services, the Navy values tradition a great deal. The Battle of Midway is recognized every year across the fleet, but individual ships also recognize their own traditions – often based on their namesakes. While stationed on board CHUNG-HOON, we recognized SIGSBEE Day every April 14th – by a formal ceremony on the deck in whites that included reading the names of the 23 sailors killed in the attack (sadly no pics from the ceremony during my deployment).
SIGSBEE Day 2016
SIGSBEE Day 2019
Gordon Chung-Hoon continued to serve in the navy until 1959 (including command of the destroyer USS JOHN W THOMASON (DD 760) during the Korean War) becoming the first Asian American Flag Officer in the Navy upon his retirement. After retirement he served in multiple public service roles in Hawaii, most notably director of the Department of Agriculture in the early days of statehood and even ran for Congress as a Republican before passing away in 1979.
Crest of the USS CHUNG HOON (DDG 93) – note the Hawaiian elements integrated into the crest. Motto translates from Hawaiian as “Go forward sea warriors!”
I realize these aren’t quite up to the standard of some “Toxic Masculinity” tales, but there are still some pretty nifty stories behind some of these ships. Let me know if you’re interested in more of them. I’ve actually got the next one half completed already….
I love this piece from Milton Caniff’s “Male Call” – it does a great job breaking down the designations we use for ship classes (circa WWII)
Wow that was great! Thanks Fish!
+1 Thanks!
+2 Bravo Zulu
recycling !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Lexington
USS Lexington may refer to the following ships of the United States Navy:
USS Lexington (1776), a brigantine acquired in 1776 and captured in 1777
USS Lexington (1825), a sloop-of-war in commission from 1826–1830 and 1831–1855
USS Lexington (1861), a timberclad gunboat in commission from 1861–1865
USS Lexington II (SP-705), later USS SP-705, a patrol vessel in commission from 1917–1918
USS Lexington (CC-1), a Lexington-class battlecruiser, converted to CV-2 in 1922
USS Lexington (CV-2), a Lexington-class aircraft carrier commissioned in 1927 and sunk in 1942
USS Lexington (CV-16), an Essex-class aircraft carrier in commission from 1943–1991, now a museum in Corpus Christi, Texas
Yeah, the new Frigate (FFG(X)) is the Constellation Class. Also named after one of the first 6 Frigates and and several previous versions.
So the Lexington aircrafter carrier that dodged a bullet at Pearl Harbor was a repurposed battlecruiser. I did not know that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ranger_(CV-4)
Of course planes are new things and boats are ancient….it could hardly have been otherwise.
Per the link, the first US ship built from the hull up as a carrier was commissioned in 1934.
Pre-war naval treaties limited total tonnage by type of ship. Carriers were new and unproven so less limited.
The USS Constitution can also fly!
Indeed.
Very interesting, Fish. Things we never knew in the army. Thanks
I did serve with two sailors in a joint office, A first class and an Lt Cmdr, on an AF base though. We wore civilian clothes though.
Thanks for the info, never too old to learn
That was tremendous Fish!
I realize these aren’t quite up to the standard of some “Toxic Masculinity” tales,…
Incorrect. Those two dudes were both perfectly toxic!
Relevant.
Interesting article.
Sadly, I did not win the lottery to sail on the Constitution during her last July 4th turnaround cruise.
Maybe next time.
Lulz.
Great write up, more please.
Thanks for the feedback. I’ll keep working on the next one. (no more ships I served on per se, but still “connections”).
Won’t have much more time to respond to feedback before I go in to work, but I’ll keep an eye on comments/questions and try to get back to them on the night post.
Seconded, really interesting stuff.
OT and a solid nut-punch.
This should be directed to the Covidiots in your life. Let them know, too, that they are fucking monsters and complicit in murdering a shit ton of people.
Mila’s story
Damn Tundra that is quite the nut punch.
I’m sorry. It was quite literally a “there but for the grace of God” moment for me.
And anyone who says “kids are resilient” clearly understands that they are inflicting damage.
This is also why in our household, to be a family friend, you agree to receive phone calls from our teens if they need to talk to someone outside of the parentals.
That’s very smart.
But this 2020-2021 shit was too much. We got them both standing appointments with a therapist.
It appears there are many more Milas in the real world, too. They are not all as young as she was but age is not a determining factor.
Fauci is head executor. I hope he lives a long life, in a nursing home, with Alzheimer’s an no one to change his Depends.
All my kids are adopted. The two oldest were in foster care, and have mental health issues. I went through almost a year of group therapy with each of them, before COVID. Still I have seen up close and personal everything in that article. There are so many kids with mental health issues, and they had been ignored and marginalized before COVID. But all the ham-fisted COVID responses, focusing everyone’s lives on that one thing, have dropped a load of bricks on each of these drowning kids, and for what?
Not going to read it.
I don’t need the additional angst today.
Argh
It’s harder every day not to hate.
Yeah, this is one that makes one consider whether “peaceful protest” is sufficient.
I really will not be shedding any tears if the govt/”public health” officials who have done all of this eventually wind up as lamppost decorations.
I don’t think personal responsibility goes out the window in even this case.
But undoubtedly the evil machinations of the lockdowners took their toll.
My nieces have all been struggling (already were) and all the lockdowns and making hasn’t helped. It’s not healthy.
Heads. Spikes. Walls.
Yes, please.
^^ Yup.
Thirded.
I’m on board, too
*eyeball emoji*
That’s Swiss’ gig, but I see you, 4×20.
*peers over glasses*
I wonder whose bad pun is on deck?
Now, just keep an even keel.
Yes, this was really interesting.
Thanks, Shipmate! Loved this. More more more. I was a Boston University Navy ROTC guy (Marine Option) and I love the naval traditions. My college roommate was a SWO and he would love this.
I was commissioned as a second lieutenant aboard the USS Constitution – oldest ship-of-the-line. I don’t know if they do that anymore, but I was proud as hell to begin my career that way.
We sat out in front of it while the CO read our orders, then we walked aboard as midshipman, got pinned, saluted our first enlisted man/woman (coughed up the requisite silver dollar), and walked off as new Ensigns and Second Lieutenants. OO-FUCKIN’-RAH!
My first midshipman cruise was on the USS New Jersey (BB-62). That was amazing. She was homeported in Long Beach and the pier right next to her had the Mighty Mo (USS Missouri, BB-61). Next to them was an Aegis class cruiser. That was a helluva lineup when you would walk to the pier and see those three behemoths all lined up. My first deployment was about LHD-3, the USS Kearsarge, on her maiden cruise. It was also the first time a Navy ship embarked women. We had 4 female officers aboard and they were all good shits.
That letter is exactly the kind of thing that hooked me into the Navy-Marine Corps Team. That’s why I have such a hard time when I see what our military and civilian leadership have done to the services.
Would love to see more of these, Fishy. Maybe I can find some time to ride your coattails (and help out) by putting one together for one of the ships I’m familiar with.
Thanks for the feedback. I attended a promotion ceremony on Mighty Mo in Honolulu in 2014 but never did the full tour. Only BB tour I’ve done is USS North Carolina in Wilmington. (thinking I might make a list of all the ship memorials/museums in the country and use that as a vacation guide sometime).
INGRAHAM had female officers (2nd CO was a woman and she was excellent) but no enlisted due to berthing spaces. Of course…as a junior officer, I had to move from officer country down to overflow berthing in the enlisted engineer berthing for the entire deployment (to make space for the helicopter pilots – all men..but they get to their first command as O-2s due to school length).
Cruiser would technically be a Ticonderoga class.
I did the USS North Carolina tour when I was there. The heat and lack of hydration hindered the latter half of the walk. there’s a lot of compartments to go through. I do recommend the visit though. Just make sure you’ve got water.
you’re taller than me
I’ve been on carriers and subs….no idea how anyone can live like that
My one “cruise” aboard a sub was the Tennessee (a Boomer) when she was brand new. Everyone on the boat raved about how they had “real shitters.”
We were mids and only aboard for 3 days, but that was more than enough for me. I got my shoulders wedged between my rack and the one above me while sleeping. I like to sleep on my side, but I woke up in a panic because I got stuck trying to turn.
Fuck. That.
(The chow – and ice cream machine – was as good as advertised, however… and hence why submariners are… ahem…a bit chubby.)
Still haven’t been on board a single sub (didn’t even tour Arrowfish in Pearl Harbor – one more reason to go back). Missed a chance to go with a couple other folks when we had sub (with Seal Delivery Vehicle attached) on the same pier as us for a couple days.
I’ve toured two subs – one a WWII vintage German one in SF and the other was the Bluefish, in Portland.
If you thought Das Boot was claustrophobic looking, you don’t even begin to understand until you’re inside one. The Bluefish, although diesel-electric was a testbed for the Nautilis, including the round hull. You’ve seen her as the sub breaching in The Hunt for Red October (where she was appearing in the role of the USS Dallas).
Did my tour of one back in the 80’s.
It was enough to make me say no to the nuclear engineering position they were trying to recruit me for while I was still in college.
I think they have a few water fountains around now, but yeah, was a little chilly in Dec.
I toured the New Jersey when it was docked next to the Missouri in Long Beach, CA. The Iowa class were awesome. My favorite was going inside one of the main gun turrets. As the guide told us they could hurl a shell that weighed as much as a car over 20 miles with enough accuracy that they could hit a house. It was almost enough to get me to go Navy instead of Army.
hit a house
that’s around 0.06MOA, so probably a well-intentioned but baseless fish tale
The tour guide didn’t say the house hit was the one aimed for. 😛
The Los Angeles area is a target rich environment.
It’s no bullshit, either- my recollection is something like 2400 lb per HE round. When I was embarked in ’88 they had to bring back some retired Master Chief (who was in his 60s) to teach the new kids how to operate all of the analog fire control systems in the turrets.
Out at sea, they drop this giant orange-red balloon overboard (they called it the ‘Killer Tomato’) and then the ship drives about 20 miles away and they shoot at it. It only took three tries – all very close – until they got a direct hit and it disappeared from the horizon.
I have some pics of the 16 inch guns firing at San Clemente and it was… I don’t know quite how to describe the feeling, but I remember thinking, “Oh my god, what have we done?” The idea of launching those shells at other human beings really shook me back then.
https://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/03/us/lebanon-experiences-spur-navy-to-improve-battleship-accuracy.html
the truth is probably classified, but this is all USN is claiming in public that I could find: the New Jersey had attained accuracy of within 250 yards or so of a target from a range of 10 to 12 miles
a spread of plus/minus 250yds in 12 miles is 1.2MOA which makes a certain amount of sense to this marksman who knows absolutely nothing about the navy but figures rifled projectiles operating under 3000FPM are probably rather similar ballistically
the operations/finance part of my brain says that’s plenty good and points more to simply understanding how close one needs to get to do a job with however many shells: it’s just risk and cost and nothing to bless or to blame; no one expects them to perform surgery with a chain saw….or even a coping saw
My preferred “a href=”https://cdn.cwsplatform.com/ditchwitchmicom/vp4634265_1_large.jpg”>surgical instrument
derp
I remember going through the abbreviated (non MOSQ) artillery observer course. We each had to run through a simulated adjusted fire scenario. I was given an Iowa class. The danger close was 1km.
When I was an enlisted infantry guy, the Viet Nam vets said just that – give the grid coordinate in 2 digits only…1KM was enough.
There weren’t many Vietnam vets still around by the time I joined (at least at the ranks I would get an opportunity to chat). I would have loved to hear their stories.
I would expect the mass of the shell would negate any windage effects and might even minimize elevation variations, which would enhance accuracy compared to a rifle. I have no idea how precise the powder charges are, which would be another significant variable. For comparison, my .300 Win Mag (bore polished, muzzle crowned, trigger stoned and set at 3.5 pounds) clocks in at just under 1 MOA off a rest. And I’m a mediocre rifleman.
Of course, a ship, especially a moving ship, is not the most stable platform, even a battleship.
#metoo
Took my stepdad, he is also a history nut, it was a good day.
The LONG path to get out from the engine room to fresh air was a little disconcerting when we talked about trying to do that if the ship was sinking.
Glad I was a Marine with only a week on ship in my 20 years.
I toured the Battleship Wisconsin in Norfolk. It was fascinating.
That’s about a half hour from my house.
I’ve thought about going, but I figure it would just be a repeat of the USS North Carolina.
I have to take the family someday. I assume I would get to see more of the ship then I did when I toured the then commissioned New Jersey.
Yeah, we were all over the thing. Captain’s quarters, radar room, etc.
Definitely a fun tour.
Thanks. I will see when I can get the family down there.
junior enlisted/senior enlisted/officer distinctions that are utilized in the Navy
My reserve unit would regularly go to the Frisco area to work a live mission. At first they put us up at the Presidio of San Francisco in transient housing. The Army would assign old style barracks for the unit. We would show up and the highest rank would sign for the keys. We stayed together as a unit. The BRAC changes eventually forced us to find other housing. For one trip we arranged to stay at Treasure Island. The Navy split us into junior enlisted, senior enlisted (NCO) and officers for housing. After that we just stayed in hotels.
I didn’t witness, but I also hear the difference in how the Navy treats junior NCOs and senior NCOs compared to the Army is more extreme.
Army had First Three Graders (NCO) clubs, Navy had a Chief’s Club and an Acey-Deucy Club.
Did the Chiefs also have a separate Mess? Don’t know/Can’t remember
Chiefs ALWAYS have their own mess/berthing on a ship.
First class petty officers (E-6) have their own “association” and some larger ships give them a separate dining area too.
Generally officers aren’t supposed to eat on the main mess deck at all (barring schedule conflicts, VIPs in the wardroom, etc) – to avoid “mixing” too much and making the junior folks uncomfortable (depending on the circumstances), but in port the officer of the deck is normally supposed to “sample the mess” after watch on the mess decks (and inspect for cleanliness, etc).
Still haven’t been on an LCS though, so I’m not sure exactly how they work space-wise – or the Cyclone class Patrol Craft.
“officer of the deck is normally supposed to “sample the mess””
Unit Officer of the Day duty, Duty Officer also got the meal free, all other officers paid .
I was commissioned as a second lieutenant aboard the USS Constitution
That’s super-cool!
SB – Someone, one of the staff, had managed to make that happen because it was a “tradition” by the time I got commissioned in 1991. But the thing about that is the ROTC unit had been chased off of campus in the 70s by protests over Vietnam. The ROTC building was burned.
The seniors (when I was a frosh) were the first class to be “officially” back at ROTC and that was the class of ’87. A few of the staff were local Chowds, so I think someone had a “hook-up” over at the Navy Yard and they started doing commissioning ceremonies every year at the Constitution, which is in the Charlestown Navy Yard. The staff and sailors aboard it were very cool and they seemed to get a gas out of commissioning new officers.
Very, very fortunate to have gotten that opportunity. I don’t know if they’re still doing it.
UNC didn’t even have ROTC for quite a while. Cadets had to go over to NC State for training. They re-established it around the time I got there in ’98 and my buddy was one of the first to finish under the new program (Army).
Huh. That’s surprising given how much mil there is in NC.
The BU NROTC unit rolled into my local in Kenmore Square right after 9/11 – they were all in dress unis, I think it was an end-of-year function for them.
I bought the whole unit a round as a “thank you”, since I’m sure they weren’t expecting anything like 9/11 when they signed up (good thing I was friendly with the owner, as the final bill was certainly smaller than it could have been)
I ended up having a pleasant chat with the commander and one of the Marine Option guys (ISTR he had started out as enlisted & then went to school/NROTC, if that makes sense).
Yep. I’m pretty sure I know who it is, in fact.
And which “local” was that? Because we frequented ALL of them when I was a midshipman and undergrad at BU. Cornwall’s, the Dugout, Crossroads, Father’s ____, the Cask (before it got turned into a nice hipster place, it was a shithole dive bar in the 80s), etc.
I’m customer emeritus at Cornwall’s – spent a lot of my 20s there.
This was at location #2, across the street from the original, under the Citgo sign.
They’re on on location #3, a few doors down (that building the Citgo sign is on needs to be demolished as it’s in bad shape).
If you’re talking shithole dive bar, you can’t forget The Rat, may it rest in peace.
No one could forget The Rat (PBUI). Our combat boots with a black leather leather jacket helped us fit right in!
The British Army is like that. Officers and Other Ranks (might as well just call them peasants or cannon fodder).
The Army has some traditions held since the days of aristocrats and peasants. It is a problem for higher skilled enlisted positions. Send a soldier to language training for a year. Grant a security clearance then send to intelligence school for about six months. Then treat the soldier like a peasant and wonder why they leave for a higher paying contracting job.
Gentlemen by act of Congress.
Who is the mostest racisty person ever to have a ship named for him, and shouldn’t that ship be immediately scuttled to save us from our sins? Or is simply renaming it the USS Nicole Hannah-Jones enough penance?
The USS Harvey Milk waves “hi”.
Sorry, USNS Harvey Milk (T-AO-206)
I just came here to say that much of what I have been told about sailors would suggest that this might be the most appropriately named ship in the fleet.
+ rum, sodomy and lash?
USS John S. McCain (DDG-56)??
He ran against the Lightbringer. QED.
There’s got to be a deserving garbage scow out there…
USS Gabby Giffords (no joke).
that’s mostly Ray Mabus’s fault
he’s one of my people…..looks a lot like my dad, even
I thought that was named after his dad.
As a kid living near Boston, I had the good chance to take a field trip to the Constitution. It was fascinating.
Penguin, by any chance, did you ever go down the south shore to the replica ship they have of the Mayflower in Plymouth? https://plimoth.org/plan-your-visit/explore-our-sites/mayflower-ii
We lived there (in Plymouth, not the Mayflower II) for a short while and took the kids. HO-LEE SHEE-IT.
Trying to imagine being on board that thing for the couple of months journey over from England made me nauseated just trying to imagine it.
The 1619 project assholes can say whatever they want, but those folks aboard that ship were some hardy, tough fuckers… because that would be unbearable to most (IMO).
https://www.caller.com/story/news/local/2020/01/17/heres-why-city-corpus-christi-decided-demolish-la-nina/4503821002/
your chance to board La Niña has sailed
Aw, that’s too bad, but I can see that. Wooden ships are crazy hard to maintain, especially if they’re just for show.
Glad they’re still saving HMS Victory (older than the USS Constitution but not still afloat). Seeing where Nelson was shot and then later died got to even this landlubber groundpounder.
Oh thanks for that! I need to add that to my list. My mother’s side arrived on the original.
Then it’s worth going down to the south shore to Plimoth Plantation and the Mayflower II, OBE. You’d dig it. We only lived in Plymouth for a year, but all of my daughters got the full indoctrination from the local school system. I kinda dug it.
Ozy – no, I just remember being taught about the Pilgrims’ journey around the same time. Also, your comments about a rough 60 day voyage were certainly not overstated.
Don – shame, but I get (as Ozy says) that’s a hard thing to keep up.
I had the same reaction to the replica Dutch East Indies ship in Amsterdam. It’s just unimaginable to me that a crew could tolerate it for months on end.
It was the money.
Besides, it’s amazing what people can grow to tolerate.
/looks at people happily wearing masks…
Love that place, RC.
https://www.hetscheepvaartmuseum.nl/
It was on our bucket list when my wife and I went to Boston. It was a treat.
I had an extended tour of the Constitution via my father’s sailboat association – someone knew someone, etc. Lots of time below-decks with a dedicated guide.
Really great stuff.
Might be going to Boston for work in May, I want to see it.
If they are mask/vax nazi’s I’ll have to pass.
Two semi-related topics: My Grandfather used to cut up the comics pages and staple them into books for each comic. I loved them as a kid. He had a lot of Steve Canyon (by Milton Caniff) books.
After watching a lot of YT videos, I was impressed by how much of a difference the USN’s emphasis on good damage control made on outcomes. It wasn’t as if the Royal Japanese Navy didn’t care, they just didn’t have the focus the US did. Probably did as much or more than the primitive radar did to help victory.
I was impressed by how much of a difference the USN’s emphasis on good damage control made on outcomes
See the story of how much abuse the Yorktown took over a month before a submarine found the damaged ship and sank it.
Thanks for this, loved the Captain Ingraham story.
OT: someone posted the story yesterday about the Scottish football club who was losing sponsors because they signed a rapist. Apparently they’ve bowed to pressure:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-60244442
Okey-dokey.
Now that’s just crazy-talk.
I thought there was a civil case though that found against him?
Yeah, that was how he’s considered to be convicted. The argument turned on consent: the judge at the civil trial said the woman was “incapable of giving meaningful consent” but the story provides no detail beyond that.
The criticism from some people is that the guy has never acknowledged or apologized for the incident (I don’t know how you apologize for raping someone) so I assume if he appeared contrite or similar, there might have been more mercy from the critics. I assume the problem there would be acknowledging and apologizing for the incident would open the door to a criminal charge.
Of course, I’m sure it’s not all over. One of the sponsors, crime writer Val McDermid said, after the announcement, said “it was “a victory of sorts of the hundreds of people who make the club, who were appalled a the original decision”. She said: “It’s just the first step on a long road back. The same people who made the decision are still in charge.”
This apparently happened back in 2011. Even if he’d have gone to prison he’d probably be out for some time now.
I thought having the rapists of various kinds on staff was de rigeur in pro sports?
Reminds me of a fake commercial in GTA V.
“We know he murdered his wife, but he can run really fast with a football!”
Just the NBA and NFL. Because there are so few people who want to be pro football or basketball players, what choice do they have if they want to field a team?
*kiff sigh*
Really nice, VA Republicans, really nice.
This asshole
Not you juris…..
Del. Wren Williams, R-Patrick. “Aren’t we supposed to be using the justice system to make it just for our victims?”
In Williams eyes, the victim has already been identified and absolutely been found the victim. Law and Order and maybe Justice when we get around to it.
You’d think that shit should already be illegal, but then you wake up an remember you live in clown world.
In her youth and many moons ago, my wife after a bad car accident told me the lies the officers were using before she invoked her 5th Amendment. “We have video of you going to Mexico in your car!” She didn’t cause they took the foot bridge.
He’s a youngster representing a rural district. Not surprising at all.
My guess is he’s never been sideways with the law and his interactions have been typically friendly.
Great journalisming there, where’s the effing bill number?
Were any of these falsified documents ever presented as genuine in court?
My guess were the basis of a plea, but that is just a guess.
Out in the real world, anything that is based on a falsified document is irremediably tainted.
IIRC yes. In VB
Oh one was actually offered up in court.
Honestly, I can’t get excited about cops using false papers as part of an interrogation.
Presenting falsified documents in court is a different story. That’s fraud and subornation of perjury, at a minimum.
I don’t like opening the door for any dishonesty on their part. It’s corrosive at best.
^^^THIS right here.
me either
but a 150million screaming mommies that deserve absolute insulation and immediate resolution from any hint of risk mean that a bunch of $20/hour guys are gonna do what they gotta do to keep from getting yelled at
the problems in this country are in no part direct results of idiot fantasy and the hundreds of millions of morons who applaud for them
we are not going to have peace in this land until Mexicans, pot, and asssex is stomped out in every corner because that’s what most of your neighbors demand
we are fucked
I don’t think they should be allowed to lie during interrogations.
I saw one case where a little girl was kidnapped from a house in the middle of the night.
It turned out to be a random pedophile, but the cops assumed the family did it.
They told the father her blood was found in is father’s underwear, trying to rack the family story.
Fuck the cops.
As a member of the Chair Force I envied the Navy and Army folks attention to tradition. We didn’t seem to car much. I did do some research and discovered that one of my units could trace it’s linage to one of the first radar units in Hawaii – yes that one. We kinda celebrated them every Dec 7.
“As is now tradition, the warnings from the radar station were ignored.”
Hey we had a song! Tradition! And…we um…sometimes saluted…oh and stood in formation!
Formation? I loved formation! Especially watching the occasional butter bar fall out during a long-winded speech from a General.
Somethings I miss about active duty, but standing in formation on a Friday, while our long winded First Sgt gave a safety brief long enough for us to watch the sunset* while he talked is not one of them.
*true story
“Flies cause disease. So keep yours closed!”
Are you saying you guys would go out and get bombed?
*narrows gaze*
That was so bad, I expected a much stronger gaze. Something that would really zero in.
It was dangerously close
Nice story, fish. I was going to enlist in the USN, but I got a hell no from Army mom. I guess she had some issues with seafaring folk at CENTCOM.
BTW Fish. Every time I see you post I’m reminded of a Lt Fish I was stationed with. Francis (not Frank!) was a piece of work. He loved to hear himself talk. Went into the head one day and there he was, apparently alone, pontificating on something or other. I did my business quickly and left without a word. Turns out another Lt had tried going into one of the stalls to escape – he just succeeded in getting himself trapped.
Shit
The compression fitting on the diesel transfer line wriggled loose right at the moment I was walking by.
Now I smell like a Navy bilge.
These euphemism are getting positively nautical!
Always keep a strong grip on your transfer line…
And don’t drop anchor in just any port
I got splashed with JP8 once. Couldn’t get that smell out at all.
Gah, jet fuel is the worst.
I once pulled a diesel tank out of sailboat while in the harbor down in the Virgin Islands. Damn boat was built around the tank making it almost impossible in very constrained quarters.
I smelled like diesel for a week and I think every time I got in the water it left a slick.
This means war!
“My message today is this: We can do this. I promise you, we can do this,” Biden said in Wednesday remarks at the White House. “All those we lost, all those we miss. We can end cancer as we know it.”
Monumental hubris, or delusional idiocy?
He’s also in NYC to make guns there even more illegal.
Because homeless crazy people and open defiance of the law and failure to prosecute lawbreakers isn’t the problem.
Joe Biden arrives in NYC to address surging gun violence with Eric Adams
He actually claimed the 2nd amendment meant you couldn’t own a cannon….while a portion of our naval fleet at that time were private citizens who…owned cannons.
Why not both?
?
Was it here, or somewhere else, where I read that there’s not one thing called “cancer”. There are hundreds or thousands of types and they are all different, and are all treated differently. There will never be one single cure.
That is also true. Also advances in the past ten years have been incredible. Human understanding of the cause and potential cures needs to be left outside the thuggish arm of government interference.
Everything Biden touches turns to shit. I expect the cancer rate to skyrocket post his announcement. And it will, because nobody went for routine screenings during lockdowns.
Given that cancer diagnoses are through the roof (wonder why), it’s a target rich environment.
Just got the ‘this means war’
We’re screwed, I’ll call it a win if cancer rates don’t double.
Covid is over then?
I realize these aren’t quite up to the standard of some “Toxic Masculinity” tales, but there are still some pretty nifty stories behind some of these ships. Let me know if you’re interested in more of them. I’ve actually got the next one half completed already….
I like this article. Please write more.
I was amused by the Male Call cartoon.
Yes, I thought it was really interesting
Since I didn’t get to link it in the morning post, here’s the story about Austria’s vax mandate passing the upper house of parliament and going to the President’s desk for his signature, which is a formality. Sorry it’s only in German.
Do we need to send Canadian truckers over there?
I initially read that as Australia.
But the German would make sense there too…
It’s always best in the original German.
This bit, the personalities behind the names, got me thinking. I never had to send a kid off to war. We have four girls, none of whom served (the oldest applied for the AF Academy but was turned down for being deaf in one ear.)
What do you say to a kid going off to war?
Both of my grandfathers sent sons to WW2. Two each. I don’t know what they said to their boys.
My Dad sent one son off to war. Me. I know what he told me – that he was proud of me. That was absolutely the best thing he could have ever said.
If you’ll forgive a movie quotation response to a serious question, I always liked, “Bring yourself back, that would please me more.”
Yeah, that would have been good.
Dad was one of those taciturn old WW2 types. He didn’t talk a lot, but when he did, you wanted to listen to him. My brother and I inherited some of our Mom’s… well, glibness, you might say.
When Dad died, I was talking to my brother about him. We both observed that, in our whole lives, Dad never once told either of us that he loved us. We knew he did, but he wasn’t the kind to say so. But he told us both that he was proud of us. We both agreed, that was better, coming from him. I told my brother, “we two, you and I, are the men we are because of him.” My brother agreed.
I miss Dad. He’s been gone four years. I think of him every day.
My Dad has been gone 40 years, and I miss him still. He was of the same generation and fabric.
If I had a son of the age now, I couldn’t in good conscience set him to military service. I’ve lost too much of the respect I once had for our military.
Me too. Sad but true. I’ll be advising my grandkids accordingly.
My mom was pissed at me when I went because I could have gotten out of it.
I had been in the same unit for 6 years due to deployments and “Stop Loss/Stop Move” orders.
We had just come back from a 6 month Okinawa deployment that had been extended to a year when word came down we were going to do convoy security in Iraq (2004).
A few of my fellow Sergeants put in for transfers and they were all approved.
I was an artillery section chief, once we realigned as a company, I became a squad leader.
I could not leave when the guys I had trained since they showed up as brand new Marines were going.
My wife was not happy, but she understood. Mom still gets bitter about what I put her through.
I understand completely.
WMD
We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait
(the KLA) has committed terrorist acts
Peace for Galilee
remember the Maddox
remember the Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States
impartial in thought as well as in action
remember the Maine
You forgot the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
the Maddox was the ship in question in the Tonkin
Guess I should have remembered the Maddox then.
I failed to come up with a poetic way to include it….I’ll do better next time
I’ve been spoiled by the ubiquitous quotations one can cite today defending the craziest positions; a less lazy man would have dug out something from those days
Thanks for the history lessons, very enjoyable and informative. Learning is fun.
And now… for our regularly scheduled snark…
SMH. Seaman and their tubby toys.
Good on whatever man stuck with Rebel Wilson (this is the kinda stuff I get now cause I follow Warty)
https://twitter.com/Beech_Fit/status/1489003383423967238
Oh and good on her
Did she have to get skin removal surgery?
But yes, good on her.
Tres has a sad
Hell yes!
Nice job, Rebel!
Thanks, piscine one. Two outstanding officers who live on in the ships bearing their names (well, maybe not Ingraham. Sad.) Please do share a few more of these!
Well, Judge Merryday in the Navy SEAL v. Biden case just issued a TRO against the military for fucking around with the religious accommodation requests of two particular plaintiffs.
https://lc.org/newsroom/details/220203-breaking-military-members-win
I can’t find a publicly available copy of the order, but I pulled it off of PACER. My favorite part of the decision is this completely unsubtle point –
…
This is glorious. The full hearing is 10 Feb in Tampa and counsel must appear in person. I would say that “the scales have finally fallen from the eyes” of the good judge. I don’t know if I speculated about it here, but I said that when he first ordered the DoD to produce reports about how many RARs had been filed, approved, denied, etc. that he was going to be pissed when he found out the whole thing was a sham. Le voila!
Chaulk one up! I had to reach out to the Feds for Health Freedom on a question and they were very gracious (in a non-lawyer way) on directing me to some resources.
HA! Let us hope…
That is going to resonate in the private sector as well, where I hear very mixed things about religious accommodation requests.
Let’s just say that I gave my views on what we should do with them, and we did something else. I am hearing of some organizations basically denying them en masse unless some pretty onerous requirements are met.
Thanks Fish! Keep ’em coming.
Both my grandfathers were in the Navy so I have a soft spot for it in my green heart. Traditions and history are unfortunately not always done on the army side, and when discovering them, it’s always been surprise at why it isn’t highlighted more. Even basic training battalions with illustrious lineages that should be a no brainer part of indoctrination… *sigh*
Taibbi’s public article on the fraud of fact-checking. No quotes, just read the whole damn thing.
Good read, but infuriating.
That sums things up nicely. Especially in regards to the “science” journolisming stooges.
The US Naval Institute has a treasure trove of historical pictures and info.
As to officer-enlisted relations, it was clear that naval officers were treated in a superior manner, so we enlisted treated them differently.
Also I have found that very few officers inspired but led by giving orders. Which is military discipline and is fine. Just dont expect enlisted folks to want to be around officers they think are “empty suits”.
If Glibs liked naval history, stories on Deweys naval coup during the Spanish American war, WWII naval battles, Israeli attacks on the USS Liberty, and North Korea attacks on USS Pueblo illustrate the life of a sailor.
Also the US Navy combat engineer battalions (SEABEE) have some interesting behind the scenes history.
I made the mistake of not taking anything from my ship and when I contacted the US Navy about said request, they informed me that my ship was drained of fluids, used for target practice, and sunk as a coral reef off The US East Coast. I would have to dive deep to get a piece of her now.
Also the US Navy combat engineer battalions (SEABEE) have some interesting behind the scenes history.
I made the mistake of not taking anything from my ship and when I contacted the US Navy about said request, they informed me that my ship was drained of fluids, used for target practice, and sunk as a coral reef off The US East Coast. I would have to dive deep to get a piece of her now.
Anyone remember Admiral Jeremy Boorda? Guy was well liked by sailors until the media was going to grill him about an award he did not earn, so he shot himself. Wearing awards you didnt earn is a big no-no in the military.
Of course, this was the 1990s. we had a draft dodger as president and all the future flag officers were making their bones seeing women were on combat ships.