By Kbolino
SLD: NAXALT. If you haven’t seen it before, this is an acronym that stands for “Not All X Are Like That” and is used, in various circles, to qualify a general statement about the behavior of groups of people by the admission that there are counterexamples but they aren’t the examples being discussed. Case-in-point, “Not All Libertarians Are Like That” applies to the following analysis.
The first and most important question in discussing this topic among a bunch of libertarians is to define “alt-right”. Unfortunately, that’s surprisingly difficult to do. For some, it’s the label applied to any of their enemies. For others, it’s the label used to salami-slice the right side of the political spectrum into smaller and more easily crushed pieces. Few people, and basically none today, self-identify with the label. For the purposes of this discussion, I’m going to crib Michael Malice’s definition of the “New Right” which is more precise and more useful anyway:
A loosely connected group of individuals united by their opposition to progressivism, which they perceive to be a thinly veiled fundamentalist religion dedicated to egalitarian principles and intent on totalitarian world domination via globalist hegemony.
How does a bunch of libertarians end up under that banner? I mean, sure, there’ve always been conspiracy theorists and other cranks among our number, but now they’re converging on this particular set of beliefs? Well, let’s trace out the path.
The first thing to observe is that libertarians are noticers. They’re misfits who notice the things that ordinary people are not supposed to notice. Things like: the government is incompetent and wasteful; public school funding has tripled while outcomes haven’t changed; you need a million licenses and other permission slips to do anything remunerative legally in many jurisdictions; the “housing crisis” is largely a result of intentional policy; a combination of labor union intransigence and environmental regulation drove the decline of American industry; etc.
The naïve libertarian conclusion here is that all of these factors are centered around one institution, the government, and that the government must be “the problem”. This is a first-order kind of noticing. And, ceteris paribus, in context, it’s not wrong. Injecting this government and these people into any situation they aren’t already involved with will only make things worse. There’s no denying that. The problem starts to arise when the proposed solution, to reduce the power of government, can never quite materialize. Libertarians inherit from the liberal tradition, and that tradition views the state as a unique institution which is separate from the rest of society, at least in theory.
Some people noticing things from a different angle came up with “public-choice theory”. This places government agents as economic and political actors. It is not enough to merely win an election; any interaction between voters, representatives, and government agents must be viewed as a multipolar negotiation, not a simple and unidirectional flow of demands. Already we’ve dispensed with the veil that the government is merely an engine for enacting voters’ preferred policy. I’d call this a second-level noticing. We’ve gone a bit deeper.
It is not a coincidence that there’s significant overlap between libertarians and public-choicers. These two groups share a common thread of misfittery that doesn’t befall the general public. Where Joe Q. Public sees “this isn’t working”, the misfit asks “but why?” Now though we start to enter the truly dangerous territory. Public-choicers were tolerable misfits. The “alt-right” isn’t.
If naïve libertarians have identified merely symptoms and indicators, then public-choicers have progressed to identifying proximate causes. But what of root causes? What sits at the heart of this beast, directing its desires? This is where yet another group of people notice even harder. We have now reached Mencius Moldbug and his blog Unqualified Reservations. These ideas are those of “neoreaction”, a name evocative of reactionary politics (more Franco or Pinochet than the Austrian Painter) that’s combined with a sense that something new is going on. After all, the old reactionaries were fighting communists. While some government agents might fly the hammer and sickle, most don’t.
If government agents can act of their own accord, outside of the demands of representatives, and representatives can act of their own accord, outside the demands of voters, then whence do they obtain their motivations to act? If somebody could influence what representatives and government agents think and want, would they not be at least as powerful as the voters? Finding out these answers gives us the next link in the causal chain. Perhaps even allows us to glimpse the root cause, insofar as it even exists. This is the natural next step for misfits who can’t stop noticing things. And this is where neoreaction attempts to provide an answer.
I’m not even going to summarize neoreactionary thought, at least partly because I can’t do it justice in this form. I will provide a link to Unqualified Reservations and recommend “An Open Letter to Open-Minded Progressives” which despite its title is approachable by any American born before the year 1995; sadly, anyone younger than that may find its examples too dated to relate to. Nevertheless, I think the explanation of why so many libertarians ended up there (or moved through there to other places) can be found from this primary source speaking for itself.
Tangentially, it’s worth noting that there are other paths down this pipeline. Some that come to mind are Hans-Herman Hoppe’s Democracy: The God that Failed and the Austrian School of the late Murray Rothbard and Ludwig von Mises. Those paths don’t all end at the same destination, for what it’s worth. Hoppeans and Moldbugites want monarchy; the Mises Caucus largely believes democracy is salvageable. Moldbug wants a strong government that maintains order and suppresses chaos; Hoppe wants a government that favors liberty and can be held strictly accountable when it doesn’t. These goals all seem widely divergent, but that’s why Malice called them “a loosely connected group of individuals” after all.
In conclusion, I think the simplest way to summarize the “Libertarian to Alt-Right Pipeline” is to say it functions among people who are inclined to dig into deeper explanations but can’t stop digging. Every time they find unsatisfactory or incomplete answers, they go deeper. Whether this work is ultimately productive or not remains to be seen. On the topic, I can also recommend this Twitter thread which lays out the pipeline from a somewhat different perspective.
Alt right is just bullshit like racist – sure, there may actually be some, but not anywhere near what the person using the term imagines.
Public-choicers were tolerable misfits. Nancy MacLean (and fans) disagree.
…but can’t stop digging. There’s a pony in there somewhere.
“a loosely connected group of individuals” – and here is where Hoffer is so valuable: what is the demon that animates and unites them (since they don’t share a belief in a god)?
I think the quote from Malice lays out that demon nicely: progressivism.
It was anti-communism that held together the old fusionist right. Once deprived of that demon, there was nothing to hold that particular coalition together. Progressivism is just a re-booted Toryism, with experts instead of aristocrats. That isn’t even a real demon to the right, because it isn’t an existential threat – it is a competing faction for the same power. And therein is the flaw for libertarians with being part of the anti-communist fused right. The other components don’t share the animus toward the state. The neo-reactionaries aren’t fighting the existence or scope of the state – just who is in control.
The neo-reactionaries aren’t fighting the existence or scope of the state – just who is in control.
I’d say you’re very wrong here. The existence and scope of the state is a major front for NRx. From their perspective, the state has retained considerable power but shirked almost all of its commensurate responsibility. Despite the exercise of state power being terrible at times, it is aimless. It has lost its own sovereignty over decision-making; decisions over how to exercise state power are not made within the formal mechanisms of the state. Instead, the state is wielded like a glove by others. This is, of course, intentional: one of the major tenets of progressivism is “scientific governance” which defers the questions of how to use state power to outside experts. The state can employ these experts directly, of course, but they influence the decision-makers more than the other way around.
I seem to hear a lot from the new right about the “common good”, which boils down to little more than their view of how to shape human behavior. Convince me that is different in substance from progressivism. Libertarians reject that our best selves result from the coercion of the state (whether from the left or the right), but from maximal room to choose freely.
They, at a fundamental level, are no different than progressivism, as that is all they know. There is no one else barking up the tree, so they are going to follow the line of thought that they understand
Which is were libertarians need to come in. We cannot be sitting the struggle out, because we lose that way, no matter who wins. We need to be changing the course of the ship, little by little.
NRx is not libertarian. They do not believe in limiting state power as a primary political goal, nor do they embrace even “classical liberalism” except perhaps as an ideal that only a very discriminating and high-functioning society could achieve.
What I was hoping to convey here is not an NRx primer but an explanation of the draw of (some) NRx ideas to libertarians. Rather than answering the question, “how can we curtail state power?” directly, it approaches the tangentially related question “why doesn’t the state work like it says in the Constitution?”
Deprived of the demon?
The demon seems stronger than ever. And the people squared off against it appear to be exactly what Malice described.
Competition on the same field, for the same prize, is not the same as the struggle against an existential threat.
One thing that I note in many articles I read about foreign policy is how much competition is discussed. The thing you’ll note is that they never define what it is we are competing for.
MacLean is a libelous cunte.
Bullshit on the idiots who did the study in Afternoon Sugarlinks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_copulatory_vocalizations
https://thumbs2.redgifs.com/DemandingBabyishPittabird-mobile.mp4#t=0
NSFW.
https://thumbs2.redgifs.com/CleanMerryFlyingfish-mobile.mp4#t=0
NSFW.
https://thumbs2.redgifs.com/BlaringVoluminousDartfrog-mobile.mp4#t=0
NSFW.
https://thumbs2.redgifs.com/BlaringVoluminousDartfrog-mobile.mp4#t=0
NSFW.
This is a repeat of the third post
Apologies.
https://tinyurl.com/2p8vr43m
NSFW.
You are forgiven.
Yes. There are boobies. They bounce.
Go easy on my boy kbolino. Tonight is his first rodeo. And he actually has something to say beyond mere titillation.
These jiggle videos do nothing for me.
You are dead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpxBeOMyiB4
The central issue with libertarianism is the attempt to set up a closed-loop system. A set-it-and-forget-it system. That one can simply enact liberty, and then walk away thinking that it solves all problems. It can, but it will never be left alone from outside forces. And this, in turn, irritates the libertarian who simply doesn’t want to be fucked with. Right now this is coming from the left, because the left is in the cat-bird seat. At on time this came from the right, albeit from a different set of sources, which have now been co-opted.
My son was born in 1995, not sure he would appreciate Moldbug.
Moldbug is a Hobbesian, and apparently influenced strongly by Carlyle. That’s a sad fate for anyone.
I think the cutoff year will move forward with time, as the people who are now quite young gain more experience and question more things, but I also think it takes relevant/relatable examples to initially be approachable. Nixon and Watergate, for example, is ancient history to people who grew up with Obama and Trump but that is more due to age than cohort.
Point well taken.
The central issue with libertarianism is the attempt to set up a closed-loop system.
Disagreed. The central issue with libertarianism is that it is a governance strategy masquerading as a worldview.
The biggest difference I notice between interacting with (intelligent) libertarians and with (intelligent) alt-righters is the foundation of their arguments. Most libertarians can never quite get to a satisfying “why” for their beliefs. The NAP is a first principle, and they’re left defenseless when somebody calls bullshit on the NAP. As a result, there are a bunch of libertarians running around going “this is bad! This is bad!” but never quite spit out why it’s bad. The alt-righters are much better at recognizing that culture matters. They are able to get to the next step. “This is bad because it degrades the culture”. Granted, many of them go to lala land when describing what is good for a culture and what is bad for a culture (and you get people talking about ethnostates and the like), but, as kbolino described, they noticed something profound. They noticed that the best rules of governance don’t matter a whit when the culture is shit.
when somebody calls bullshit on the NAP.
Don’t hurt people. Don’t take their stuff.
How is any of this bullshit?
I do think many libertarians fail to make the logical leap from personal behavior (Don’t hurt people. Don’t take their stuff.) to group behavior. It is critical to explain to people that a democratic vote by a large number of people does not justify hurting people and taking their stuff.
Government is violence. Democratic voting does not negate that violence.
Don’t hurt people. Don’t take their stuff.
How is any of this bullshit?
Reparations is a great example. When a leftist engages in identity politics and assigns guilt to groups of people rather than individuals, then “don’t hurt people and don’t take their stuff” backfires. Whites hurt blacks and took more than just their stuff. Now, reparations is the application of justice to make blacks whole and to divest whites of their ill gotten gains.
Now you either have to introduce another first principle, individual autonomy. Great, that’s fine, but individual moral agency is much harder to assert as a first principle. They can just assert collectivism as a superior alternative. You have to get a layer deeper than that, and most libertarians can’t.
eitherReparations is bullshit. It will always be bullshit. The notion of collective guilt is also bullshit.
White people hurt black people 150 years. Those villains and and victims are all dead. End of story.
Now you either have to introduce another first principle, individual autonomy.
Back to my old rant. There is no such fucking thing as society. There are only living, breathing individuals going about their personal business in a mostly cooperative fashion. “Society” is just a illusion that comes from cooperative behavior viewed from 50,000 ft.
Sorry to bail out after ranting. But I have things to do early tomorrow AM. And I am an old man that needs plenty of beauty sleep.
dammit, i was just about to have a fun devil’s advocate debate with you 😉
G’night! Have a good one!
Nah, there’s no such thing as an individual. Society is the only true reality, and people are just subunits of the greater being, like skin cells on your arm. The fact that the individual skin cells that started the tumor on your arm died long ago has no bearing on the fact that your current skin cells have cancer and need to be excised so that your arm can grow healthy again. They need to have their power to control the fate of the arm removed and the damage to the surrounding tissues must be repaired.
trshy has been assimilated into the Borg!
WELL, that’s a horrifying thought, thanks.
I don’t find that a convincing argument against the existence of individuals. I wish I could understand why some people do.
I think, most respecfully trshmnstr, that the issue is that libertarians don’t believe that the issue is culture and it’s degradation. And that is why they seemingly go to la-la land when attempting to describe what is good for the culture. Because they don’t think along that axis.
Because they don’t think along that axis.
Exactly, and I think that’s because projecting a 2D governing strategy into a 3D worldview can’t avoid that that axis is missing. Kbolino correctly pointed out that naive libertarianism tends to function with a singular focus, government. Of course culture’s not an issue, it’s not government.
I go a step further. I think libertarianism is wholly deficient when held up as a worldview. Libertarianism is okay at answering the question of “should government do this?”. It falls flat when brought outside of that scope. Why? Because, to me, drag queen story hour is aggression. To the drag queen, it’s not. In a multicultural society, every interaction between people of different cultures is a potential escalation up the aggression chain.
This is why I shy away from the “libertarian” term anymore. I think culture matters. I’ve come to believe that good governance is necessary but not sufficient for a tolerable society. I reject the idea that waving the magic libertarian wand and shrinking government by 90% would accomplish anything. The totalitarians and the evildoers don’t just go away. They find some other institution to infect. They find another boundary of decency and virtue to topple.
Well, the gods of wordpress just ate my lengthy comment. Dag-nabit.
I have been working on a longer post about this off and on, so you will have to excuse my buggin’ out of the here and now, for a later date with a full essay on this.
I look forward to it!
Propertarianism is the foundation of libertarian belief. The NAP follows from the idea of every individual having a property interest in their own self.
Or, alternately, when someone rejects the NAP, ask them exactly who they want to murder or enslave.
How ’bout if we call bullshit on “why” being a necessary, meaningful, or even useful question?
The problem with going that direction is “why” is often short for “why should I submit to your philosophy?”
So, that’s your simple explanation for the pipeline. Progressivism, the natural outcome of liberalism, has led to less liberty, not more.
If so, it would be irrational for libertarians to *not* become whatever progressives calls fascists.
Some real mental masturbation there.
Every system conceived by mankind, implemented by mankind, and executed by mankind is inherently flawed because mankind is flawed.
There are only two outcomes for any given system. It collapses under its own weight as it grows and stagnates. Or it devolves into bloodshed.
Sometimes, it doesn’t make it to one of these outcomes, because it is overwhelmed by some other larger, more aggressive system. But, no matter how many times it is overrun, the conglomeration eventually collapses under its weight, devolves into bloodshed, or both at the same time.
Happy Hump Day everyone!
This goes right along with Zwak’s point about the silly idea that we can have ANY system that is set-it and forget-it. That might make sense to an engineer, but not to anyone who pays any attention to human beings.
In the future, airplanes will be crewed by one human and one dog. The human’s job is to feed the dog. The dog’s job is to bite the human if he/she tries to fly the airplane.
This engineer believes that automation is evil, and we need humans more involved, not less.
👆👆👆
The reality is that none of political philosophies really work.
Go fuck yourself and leave me alone is my favorite though.
I think a wrote a post on that subject.
Your statement is certainly true when it comes to empires (like the U.S.). They decay and collapse pretty rapidly.
But smaller homogeneous nations can last for centuries if an outside force doesn’t intervene. Denmark, Portugal, Finland… Before they joined the EU, the were stable for long periods. Small populations, similar people, shared religion and culture seems to be the formula for stability.
Humans are pack animals. We have an innate urge to divide the world into “us” versus “them”. When the pack remains small enough for “us” to be a coherent group, then members of the pack will willingly, even cheerfully, subordinate their own needs and desires to the good of the pack. As long as a “them” doesn’t come along and eat the pack, it can be stable for some time.
Unfortunately, packs are not designed to optimize individual liberties.
Nope. The long-run small country examples I can think of were often benign constitutional monarchies. Not oppressive, not too free, just sort of stable and boring.
Portugal from the mid 19th century (post monarchy) wasn’t very stable.
Just a pack run by an alpha.
Yes. A relatively benign one, but yes. The Swiss system was even more stable – the alphas and packs were down in the Cantons.
When searching for root causes, I find the adage “follow the money” yields results more often than anything else. The fact that Western Civilization, in all its prosperity, has created the richest individuals to ever walk the planet (a good thing) has also created the mechanism for these “oligarchs” (not my preferred term) to exercise disproportionate influence over the processes of government (not by itself necessarily bad). It’s only because these people seem to inexplicably be infected with the woke mind virus that things seem to be worse than during the Gilded Age; during which the oligarchs were dedicated to good old fashioned greed.
Are the current batch of rich bastards driven by guilt (and thus go woke) or by profit (think woke will bring in more customers)?
And building libraries and parks and shit.
Right?!
What happened to real philanthropy? I guess you still see it from the millionaires, but these billionaires suck.
For some, it’s the label applied to any of their enemies.
Like fascism.
What are you? Some kind of Nazi?
The “pipeline” is nothing more than a slur to use against right of center libertarians. I could just as easily talk about the libertarian to useful idiot pipeline that exists on the left. We either engage with the ideas directly or we resort to ad hominems based on outlier nutjobs like Chris Cantwell.
Gillespie et al can shove the pipeline up their asses and spin on it.
rekt
Yeah, there’s only so much ground I could cover, but from a non-sympathetic perspective, the “pipeline” is meant derogatorily, implying that libertarianism is a gateway drug to fascism. The reality is that most people who start at libertarianism don’t go anywhere else. But there’s a significant number of ex-libertarians among the “New Right” and, given the expansive definition of that term, some not-so-ex-libertarians too (e.g. the Hoppeans I briefly mentioned).
Why would I care what a bunch of morons think? The left are fundamentally stupid – which isn’t to say they aren’t dangerous, but I have no reason to give much consideration to why they dislike me. They will believe what they choose to believe.
I don’t think they are fundamentally stupid. I think believing that stupidity rather than (what is from our perspective) willful malice animates them is a grave error. Jordan Peterson says of them something like, they are angry with God for having been born. They resent existence and they especially resent an ordered, peaceful existence. Some of the most brilliant minds of the past few centuries have been enthralled with leftism. At the very least, stupidity and patience are not traits often found together, and Gramscian Long March through the Institutions is nothing if not very patient.
I agree – I always lean towards evil over stupid, at least when it comes to those in power.
There we have it, I’m not a believer in the Gramscian narrative.
People who choose to immerse themselves in primitivism are stupid. That may have been the greatest inherent obscenity in Marx’s work – it’s absurd and unjustified claim to modernity.
There we have it, I’m not a believer in the Gramscian narrative.
This is, I think, a difference of opinion so fundamental that arguing around it amounts to talking past each other. If you don’t believe something like what Gramsci wanted actually happened, then how do you explain the extremely consistent (but slow moving!) leftward tilt of every major institution? How do you explain the pipeline (pun intended) of ideas from the universities to the academic press to the mass media to mainstream politics and culture?
Or do you disagree with those framings as well?
As I mention below – you can apply Pournelle just as easily as Gramsci, with one significant difference.
Let me give you a counterpoint that cannot be ascribed in any way to Gramsci and the Long March. The National Security Act of 1947 – the linchpin of our entire national security apparatus.
I can’t say I agree with you on the importance of a bureaucratic restructuring of the War Department. I may not be able to stick around much longer tonight, but I’d like to discuss your thoughts on Pournelle some time you’re around.
I’m not sure. I think that many of those people are exactly who they always were, they simply hid in libertarianism for a while. All it takes is to find a couple things you think are handled poorly by the gov’t, such as Mexicans, ass sex and weed, and boom, you are a libertarian when you chosen politics are out of favor.
I used to know a conservative, who decaled up and down he was a libertarian when Bush the lessor was in the shitter. Obama years? Nope, as soon as that dood showed his true colors it was straight up conservative.
Cold calling ad seller got annoyed with me for not taking his pitch and sent me an email “Thank you for wasting my time.”
I’ll have some fun with that tomorrow when I call his client.
Further: the supposed libertarian -> right-wing authoritarianism pipeline is mostly a chimera. None of the erstwhile libertarians that “transitioned” to “right-wing authoritarianism” or “alt-right” or whatever are anything of the sort. They have mostly stayed on the “leave me the fuck alone” axis while the Overton Window has shifted so dramatically that believing in private property = fascism, or believing that men can’t get pregnant = MUH NAZIS, or I think all races should be treated equally under the law = David Duke 2.0.
The fact of the matter is that The Long March Through the Institutions has been so successful that the only acceptable beliefs are those that were fringe 5 years ago and anything else is Right Wing/Alt Right/NOTZEEZ!!!!.
You can just as easily apply Pournelle to our institutions as Gramsci, save that Pournelle doesn’t let you have the demon you want.
One of the big questions that’s relevant here is over whether the progressivism we have today is an inevitable result of the liberalism of the past. A caricature of libertarianism, especially Reason/Cato libertarianism, is that its adherents want to return to the 1990s. However, we had to pass through the 1990s to get to the 2010s and present day. If the real thing wasn’t enough to stop the “progress of history”, how can any attempt to repeat it not lead to the same result?
This.
I don’t think I’ve changed all THAT much over the decades but hot damn has the world changed around me.
What explains all the folks who happily go along with [current fad]? I am 100% certain that all the octogenarian politicians and corporate executives mouthing platitudes about trannies and equity and the whole rest of that baggage don’t believe a goddamn word of it.
I think there is some shallowness and a vague cynicism to their beliefs, but I think that was just as true of their beliefs 10, 20, 30, etc. years ago. However, as the stakes are raised, the tendency is not to shake the beliefs, but to turn them more sincere. Some peel off, yes, but the rest double down.
Yeah, it’s all cynicism, all the time. I think they’re just paying too much attention to their activist wing lately. They just profess to believe what they think is current, but they are seriously ignorant of what “the masses” actually believe – probably because they hate “the masses”.
I don’t think those people, the octogenarian politicians and corporate executives believe it. But, they are scared as fuck of the people who do believe it. And at this point, that is everyone just below the c-suite, just coming into politics on the heels of anti-fa. They hate the Boeberts of the world, and think of them as declassee. Thus, they are going to be attuned to those who supposedly came up the same ladder as them.
Yup.
Part of the problem is that [strong]everyone[/strong] is afraid of them. Because they DO have power.
How did we so easily go from EEO to DIE? No one could stop it despite 50%+ of the country being against it.
Sure, some of it is just the ease of lobbing the ‘r’ word around and the superficial similarity (purposeful) between the two.
I’ve become pessimistic. With every institution under their control, the left isn’t sitting back and enjoying their power. They are actively destroying the economy while trying their best to start WWIII. Flirting with disaster is not a long term plan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K_-D5B7DIg
They’re not after long-term. The progressives are trying to loot as much cash from the treasury as possible, then fade back into obscurity before the bombs start falling. Think of WWIII as a corporate reorg to cover their tracks.
Mencius Moldbug (Curtis Yarvin) is a hard-core covid fascist. If he is the best the new right has to offer, then I think I’m unlikely to go through that pipeline.
https://medium.com/@curtis.yarvin/plan-a-for-the-coronavirus-7db3997490c1
It is important to understand that lockdowns cannot end until the virus is either eradicated, or has passed through most people (creating herd immunity). An imperfect lockdown will reduce the death toll, but not eradicate the virus — or restart the economy.
While epidemiological models which portray humans as identical data points suggest that an infection ratio (R0) under 1 leads to exponential extinction, humans are not identical data points. Irregular and incomplete patterns of eradication — geographic or social — are not a path to zero.
In retrospect, population control should have begun as soon as the virus was discovered. Taiwan did this. In Taiwan, nominally a province of China, the virus has been little more than an inconvenience. Five people have died.
In America, at the start of February, there were probably only tens of cases in the country. A total lockdown was still necessary. The time a weak lockdown will take to get back to numbers this low might as well be infinite.
That person does like to go on and on, doesn’t he.
Curtis? Nobody ever accused him of being short-winded.
There have been many splits in the New Right, and one of the biggest was over COVID. While Moldbug has waned due to his abysmally bad take on COVID, others have waxed. The Bronze Age Mindset, for example, has taken off: not directly opposed to Yarvin but definitely not in the same direction he was pointing.
Does the New Right include the Post-Libertarians?
I’m getting confused.
Broadly speaking, yes
I’m a little baffled at what’s happening with those guys. I stopped following Quinones as I can’t understand what the hell he is advocating anymore.
I think I heard one video of him with Aydin Paladin.
Sounded like he was purposefully obscuring his beliefs with jargon. I think this corner of the internet is an even smaller subset than Libertarians, they certainly have even less influence. Time spent trying to understand their intricacies is probably wasted.
What the hell is a ‘post-libertarian’?
*newly confused*
Mendacious Moldbug.
That is a hilariously bad take.
I could see the use of border controls, i.e. strict isolation for 2 weeks for all international visitors until we had good tests, etc. And of course, forced isolation for those known to be infected who were in-country already. But they all acted way too slow and that probably wouldn’t have worked, at which point we needed to ditch all controls whatsoever.
To be fair, it is dated April 2020 – everyone was in freakout mode. I wonder if he recanted after it became obvious that “lockdowns” don’t do shit.
By April I was ready to throw open the floodgates- three weeks (minimum) had gone by with only an increase in rates of disease and terrible economic damage already beginning. Of course, by then we were sending covid+ people into old age homes by order of the state while everyone else was kept at bay. Pretty mucht he worst use of governmental powers since I don’t know when. WW2? The draft?
Thanks, Kbolino. Interesting stuff.
“Progressivism is a thinly veiled religion”? I can completely agree with that quote.
hawt
https://tinyurl.com/yc3vykfb
No.
Is she just supposed to be preggers?
The introduction of food makes one think she’s meant to be fat, but I guess they’ve never seen a real fatty?
The fact of the matter is that The Long March Through the Institutions has been so successful that the only acceptable beliefs are those that were fringe 5 years ago and anything else is Right Wing/Alt Right/NOTZEEZ!!!!.
Any expression of appreciation for what 10 years ago would have been considered plain vanilla western cultural traditions is now a cry for white supremacism and the ruthless suppression of all “people of diversity”.
The source of my defeatism and despair is the acceptance of the knowledge that the vast majority of the people in the world want Big Nanny to coddle them and protect them from every hobgoblin, real or imagined.
“Progressivism is a thinly veiled religion”? I can completely agree with that quote.
Except for the “thinly veiled” part.
The thinly veiled part is actually pretty important, it is how they managed to bypass the state-church barrier (and other related barriers besides). That it is a religion which doesn’t walk like a religion means it can go places religion isn’t allowed to go.
To you and me and the rest of us it is obvious.
If I’m foolish enough to talk about this in meatspace, I get everything from blank looks to incoherent sputtering. One person told me, and I wish I was making this up, that it was different for him because he was a communist. Quite the conversation killer.
Most of the world’s problems could be solved by ignoring, ridiculing, and/or ostracising the people who have determined that they themselves are the careful thinkers who will solve the world’s problems.
The thinly veiled part is actually pretty important, it is how they managed to bypass the state-church barrier (and other related barriers besides). That it is a religion which doesn’t walk like a religion means it can go places religion isn’t allowed to go.
From their point of view hat’s true. You would never catch them proclaiming their faith in a supreme being. That’s for bible thumpers and snake handlers. But their faith in and devotion to government institutions and the high priesthood of the administrative state are completely indistinguishable from religious fervor to anyone who cares to look.
That is probably why they constantly hammer on about how the constitution doesn’t say “computer” in the first amendment, so the founders didn’t mean it had anything to do with regulating hate speech online, obviously!!
And I am only half joking,
I’m going to watch Cotton Comes to Harlem. Redd Foxx is in it, so it’s got to be worth watching.
Don’t forget to wash your ass. 😜
“you dont just wash yo whole ass…..you wash your ass hole”
As always, kbolino, I don’t know what it is about the way you explain things, but you make complex topics accessible to me. Thank you.
Very glad kbolino did a long form post. Now if cyto would do similar…
People are always clamoring about the Alt-Right when the real danger is coming from the Alt-Firsters. Those people are the scum of the Earth.
Would there, by chance, be an… Anti-firster among them!
Nobody expects the anti-firsters!
Save the Earth.
https://youtu.be/WSfBGuSmyRQ
Late as always but
Alt right like fascist is meaningless these days
I am not that sure that libertarian to alt right pipeline (should alt right be clearly defined) exists
The issue with libertarianism is: it is separate from mainstream ideologies, which makes it appeal to “political hipsters” who do not know much but want to be non mainstream (in Europe many of these youths become tankies or local versions of alt right because they so edgy man). The second issue is that it is a fairly acceptable and tolerrant institution who does not police as much, so people who may be unacceptable in other designations become accepted in the sense that no one pays them much mind.
But in the end the issue with politics is self identification. Just like the many a lefty who writhe the vice otr huff post (I have no idea if this still exists but back in the day) articles but “I was a libertarian then grew up”, many former libertarians were not libertarians in the first place, just hipsters who had a stint in pretending libertarianism.
We really need better purity tests, in conclusion.
I agree. Many people who ‘shift’ just hadn’t fully examined their political conscience yet.
And they never will examine, they’ll just flit from one political trend to the next. If anything the pipeline led from “libertarians” in 2012 to Bernie Bros in 2016 and was indicative of precisely nothing except dissatisfaction with the political status quo.
Centuries? Finland is younger than the US at only 105 years.
The country of Finland, yes. The people, speaking Finnish and living in that geographical spot, they go waaaaaaay back.
Also Curtis Yarvin is full of shit and has an awful style.
TKO from the Romanian corner.
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suh’ fam
whats goody
Morning.
Sun’s coming up, took out the trash. Pretty crescent moon and a couple of the lined-up planets are visible.
That shit is bad.
Yes, Huey Lewis is bad.
Also B.A.D.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjTZLxekig
🎶🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIwj1TQmFs
“She wears underwear with dick holes in em.”
Hair care is racist?
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2022/06/22/hair-products-parabens-linked-breast-cancer-research/
I’m convinced that all synthetic chemicals are terrible for you, and the general environment.
Everyone jokes about the frogs turning gay, but it is really happening, we can measure it on the human level, not just with preferences, but actual measurable results (like the drop in sperm count). I don’t think it is any one chemical, but you add all this stuff up and it starts to make a difference, nudging people into being fat and feminized.
Kinda relevant:
“The ironic thing about that program,” Ignatius was saying over the stove, keeping one eye peeled so that he could seize the pot as soon as the milk began to boil, “is that it is supposed to be an exemplum to the youth of our nation. I would like very much to know what the Founding Fathers would say if they could see these children being debauched to further the cause of Clearasil. However, I always suspected that democracy would come to this.” He painstakingly poured the milk into his Shirley Temple mug. “A firm rule must be imposed upon our nation before it destroys itself.”
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/anaheim-police-searching-for-stolen-u-haul-with-autistic-man-inside/
Ten minutes to Wapner.
https://www.nj.com/politics/2022/06/nj-auto-insurance-rates-could-go-up-for-1-million-drivers-under-new-reform-bills-opponents-warn.html
Suck it NJ.
“Meanwhile, opponents of the bills say it will overwhelmingly affect non-white drivers who are already hurt by current practices.”
Lawyers versus retards, I can’t decide who to root against.
““Our primary issue has been and remains the disproportionate impact that the discriminatory rating practices that are still being used by auto insurers in this state that allow the use of education, occupation, credit score, even marital status, to be used, are disproportionately impacting low-income residents, and disproportionately impacting communities of color,” Maura Collinsgru, the director of policy and advocacy for New Jersey Citizen Action, said.”
I have a real hard time with statements like this… you as a group are high risk, I do not want to subsidize you just because of the color of your skin.
“The package passed the legislative committee with bi-partisan support with the exception of state Sen. Robert Singer, who said the bill on commercial vehicles “will destroy small business owners.”
“I guess we don’t care about small businesses,” Singer, R-Ocean, said.”
Perfect! /leftists
Auto insurance requirements are a tricky one, no? Technically it hurts no one for you to have no insurance.
It’s straight-up racist claptrap. Too bad the MSM eats that shit up.
Mornin’ all! Gym time.
“MSNBC Guest Tells Inflation-Anxious Americans: “Stop Complaining… Calm Down””
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/msnbc-guest-tells-inflation-anxious-americans-stop-complaining-calm-down
No complaints allowed until you’re drinking Sterno under a bridge.
Who would complain about that?
Real Sterno or off-brand “Chafing Dish Fuel?”
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db on June 23, 2022 at 5:37 am
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50/50 words boo
Back to mediocrity after yesterday’s fluke of a great start. 😉 At least I didn’t (double… triple) chump this time.
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I’m happy as long as I don’t chump.
I wonder if chump has ever been used as a Quordle answer
In searching to see if someone has compiled a list of words used in official daily Quordles so far, I learned that there exists something called “Queerdle.”
No, I didn’t click on it; I haven’t had enough coffee yet.
Labor, enacted.
#Queerdle 169 3/6
🥥🥥🐍🥥🥥
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The solution is a word much loved by glibs.
#Queerdle 169 5/6
🥥🥥🥥🍌🥥
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🍌🥥🥥🍌🥥
🍌🥥🥥🍌🥥
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heh heh
I don’t normally play wordle so I misinterpreted the color code of the letters when I was making guesses.
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Good morning, Tulip, homey, Stinky, DEG, Lack, Sean, and lurkers!
Getting a break from the heat wave here in SW OH – predicted high only in the mid 80s – and I get to leave work early for a hair appointment! 👩🦰 I hope ALL of you have that good a day! 😃
I’m 3-sheets and making breakfast for Jugsy.
What’s for breakfast?
AIGS/sausage/cheese all all in one.
😋
Looking at the forecast, it looks like the tolerable weather (60s and rainty) will be gone by the weekend and it’ll roast around here.
Yeah, our (relative) reprieve is only for a day, and then it’s back to sweltering until Monday.
Im glad I got the grass cut the other day before the humidity sneaked back in.
I’ve apparently woken up with a headache – a little knot of suffering directly behind the forehead.
I’ve got four interviews today. I don’t want to attend any of them.
🙁
Eat more hot peppers.
https://www.epicurious.com/archive/blogs/editor/2014/03/migraine-food-cures.html
I haven’t done this to Liesl or The Dozer yet. But it is Summer.
Dogs Wearing Watermelon Helmets
Dont progs think we should be more like Sweden? And from yesterdays link, its my understanding that moaning during coitus means nothing.
Talk dirty to me! RUBBISH BINS groan in pleasure and make sexually suggestive comments when trash is inserted in new Swedish initiative
I love trash!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rxgWHzMvXOY
So they’ve managed to sexualize trash bins now…wonderful.
That would not make me want to put trash in it.
Mornin’, reprobates. Tall Covfefe and strong tobacco to celebrate the first time in over a week that our overnight pipeline completed with no errors and no manual intervention. Yay!!!
Now that’s how you euphemism.
::sees local headline about higher electric rates::
::compares last month’s to this month’s bill. Sure enough – last month was $70.23 for 693 kWh, this month is $89.74 for 735 kWh::
It wasn’t like this when it was Dayton Power & Light! 😭
I havent looked at mine yet, but for the past 2 weeks, my aged 2.5 ton unit has been going non-stop. Mostly due to Jugsy.
Big girls dont brook heat well.
::beats Tres to the punch, wallows in nostalgia::
Dow was the genius behind Dr. Creep.
/props
At the risk of being burned at the stake for blaspheming, Cincy Channel 19’s Cool Ghoul > Dr. Creep. Had a wee bit more energy, or at least made more of an effort. We could bring him in occasionally – albeit with a fair amount of “snow” – with the honest-to-goodness-tower-that-would’ve-gotten-our homeowners-coverage-cancelled-if-the-insurance-company-had-seen-it TV antenna my dad built beside the house.
Of course, neither character was really very scary.
I get charged $88 before I even start using any energy. 🙁
the 656 kWh itself cost $61.67
I’m sure that’s because NY electricity is “better.” My BIL in Bemus once (jokingly) used that to explain the extreme price difference between OH and NY gasoline.
CA would make a better example. OH and NY are roughly the same gas-wise.
Or PA. Usually there’s a $0.40/gallon difference because of high PA taxes vs OH. I don’t go to NY often enough to know those details.
Recently, though, PA has been a lot closer to Ohio’s prices–not sure why. Someone is trying mightily to keep prices here right around $5.
GasBuddy is showing about a 10-15 cent split this morning between PA and OH in my local area.
pay your fair share for Gaia and stop complaining
You’re paying for “reliability.”
heh heh heh just wait
WHERE IS RUFUS ?
Montreal protesters go topless after Quebec City police harass sunbathing woman
After a young woman in Quebec City was hassled by multiple police officers for sitting on a blanket topless doing macrame while smoking a cigarette on a sunny day, a topless demonstration took place on Sunday in Montreal.
what the hell is macrame and smoking is bad for you I am surprised it is legal in progressive Montreal
Macrame is, off the top of my head, essentially tying knots by hand, often with the assistance of T-pins on some time of puncture-able board, IIRC. Most famously used for plant hangers back in the day.
::waxes nostalgic for Tandy Leather/American Handicrafts stores::
She was probably hassled for smoking, not being topless.
🎶 A is for apple… 🎶
Im guessing Hernandez is another of those pesky “white-hispanics” ?
And is he wearing underroos ?
Im guessing Hernandez is another of those pesky “white-hispanics” ?
*raises hand*
What do you have against White Hispanics?
Sweet, free advertising!
“Hernandez is already facing reckless-endangerment and weapons-possession charges stemming from a gun battle with another man in Manhattan in February, according to records and officials.”
If only NYC had strict gun control…
Good mornin’ or moanin’ for those young enough to enjoy the carnal pleasures,
I’ve been up for an hour and a half but missed the discussion last night. I had to read the whole thing this morning to decide if I’m a lib or one of the other many great pretenders.
As one of my friends once said, “I liked it better when the Drunk was in charge”. The guy now reminds me too much of my schizophrenic ex-wife.
i’e been up
Flathead County, Montana crime update:
(ATTN: Tonio)
3:17 a.m. A man reported there was a bear in the parking lot. He couldn’t tell what type of bear it was, but he could smell it, which is how he knew it was a bear.
If he was a otter he would have smelled better?
That would not make me want to put trash in it.
“Stuff me, baby’ doesn’t imbue you with civic pride and a desire to make your city a better place?