The idea of secession is not often brought up in “polite society”, perhaps partly due to its association with the Civil War. But we obviously have a deeply divided country, and many people are not happy with the government that ostensibly represents them. Breaking up the United States into more than one country is fraught with many logistical difficulties – not that they couldn’t be overcome, considering that many countries around the world have done so – but a much simpler solution is possible that preserves the Union, and still can give people a government, at least at the state level, more to their liking.
What if counties in one state decided to leave their current state – you can use the nasty word “secede” if you like — and join a geographically adjacent state? Leaving aside the constitutionality of this – although I don’t know of any good argument why it would be forbidden – how might it affect the political landscape? In particular, how might it affect the Electoral College, assuming no states are dissolved and no new ones are formed?
To investigate this, I use a map (shown below) created by the New York Times which shows how each county voted in the 2020 presidential election – red for a county that voted for Trump, blue for Biden, and the darker colors indicate wider margins.
There are many regions that do not share the same politics as the majority of voters in their state. Parts of northern California have long considered forming their own new state of Jefferson. But forming a new state means more senators, which can directly shift the political balance and would be harder to be accepted. Counties switching from one state to another do not affect the Senate, and if the number of Representatives is kept at 435, then it might be more politically viable.
So what if the red chunk of northern and eastern California, with population around 3.1 M, seceded to, say, Nevada? They might take a couple of blue counties along the border with them so that the remainder of California is contiguous. Oregon is another possibility for the aspiring Jeffersonians, but much of the red regions of Oregon (population 1.1 M) themselves might want to secede, with a logical landing spot of Idaho, assuming they can’t split off with northern California to form a new state. Ditto for the eastern half (or maybe a little more) of Washington state (1.7 M), which would then more than double the population of Idaho.
Continuing on with this exercise, what other secessions might make sense? I’ve identified more than a dozen other possibilities where a block of red counties could “escape” from a blue state to a friendlier red one. In each case, there might be a few blue counties that must follow along to keep states from having islands of counties inside another state. There are even cases where blue counties could leave red states for “greener” pastures. The only restrictions I impose are that any block of counties moving to another state must be contiguous and adjoin their new state, no non-seceding counties are cut off from the rest of their state, and there are no tendrils of counties that one often sees in gerrymandered congressional districts.
Downstate Illinois has long resented being ruled by the more populous Chicago-dominated north – I know, I was born and raised in Decatur. If counties south of, say, Peoria and Champaign-Urbana, opted to go to Missouri, Indiana, or Kentucky, those states might gain population of 1.3 M, 0.59 M, and 0.14 M, respectively, from Illinois. [Illinois’s capital, Springfield, might end up in Missouri, but the Illinois capital could become the more fitting city of Chicago. If Springfield moved to Missouri, there would also be the problem of there already being a Springfield, MO. There’s also already a Decatur, IN, as well, but we won’t worry about such issues here.]
Regions of eastern Colorado have contemplated going elsewhere – perhaps 1.2 M would switch to Kansas and 0.40 M to Nebraska. Then the western Colorado counties (0.35 M) might defect to Utah.
Counties in western Virginia (1.8 M) are dismayed by the bluing of their state – they could go to West Virginia, reuniting with territory that was originally in Virginia. The tip of Virginia connected to Delaware might also switch there (only 45 k there, however). A few counties in northwest Maryland (97 k) might also prefer West Virginia. The parts of Maryland east of the Chesapeake Bay (1.5 M) might prefer to switch to Delaware since Delaware is less blue than Maryland.
Pennsylvania, although narrowly going for Biden in 2020, might be viewed more favorably by red counties in northwest New Jersey (0.89 M), northern Maryland (0.60 M), and western New York (4.6 M). The blue Buffalo area would also have to go along to avoid being isolated from the rest of New York; there may barely be enough red voters in western New York to provide a majority for agreeing to that change. [Some well-known Glibs would then be in Pennsylvania!] The red area in central New York is surrounded by blue, and I’m not sure where they could go without splitting New York into disconnected pieces; areas around Ithaca and Syracuse are keeping them from connecting to western New York.
Texas might absorb some red eastern New Mexico counties (0.32 M), but could lose the immediate El Paso area (0.87 M) to New Mexico.
There is a cluster of blue counties along the upper Mississippi River. I think the most logical change is to have a number of blue Iowa and Wisconsin counties switch to Minnesota and Illinois. I estimate that Iowa might lose 0.79 M to Illinois and 0.39 M to Minnesota, while Wisconsin might lose 0.86 M to Illinois and 0.72 M to Minnesota.
Finally, western North Carolina (2.1 M) could be alarmed at how their state, although barely going for Trump in 2020, looks like it is turning blue, and switch to Tennessee. Similarly northern Georgia (4.0 M), including two red counties on the outskirts of Atlanta, might also choose Tennessee.
Although individual population changes are mostly small, they do add up. By my estimation, with the changes listed above, the following states that went for Trump would have electoral vote changes: TN (+7), ID (+4), WV (+2), MO (+2), UT (+1), IN (+1), IA (-1), NC (-2), FL (+1), KS (+1), and TX (+1); some of the changes are due to population gain from the 2010 to 2020 census, and not county migration. The states that went for Biden had these gains/losses: PA (+5), NV (+4), DE (+1), MN (+1), NM (+1), NJ (-1), OR (-1), CO (-2), MD (-2), VA (-2), WA (-2), WI (-2), IL (-2), NY (-4), CA (-5), GA (-5), and MI (-1), with the last one due to population loss between censuses. Then Biden’s 306-232 electoral advantage in 2020 shrinks to 289-249.
Furthermore, the population migrations of red voters would have likely switched PA, NV, WI, and DE, now with electoral votes 25, 10, 8, and 4, respectively, to Trump, and North Carolina (with 13 EV) to Biden, resulting in a Trump advantage of 283-255! Since each electoral vote due to House membership represents about 750,000 people, even if several million of the population changes listed above don’t occur, as long as Pennsylvania, Nevada, and Wisconsin flip to the Republicans, Trump would still win the electoral count.
Obviously there are lots of issues with the above analysis, the foremost being: would all of those counties actually want to switch states, especially when they likely have been making fun of “those people” across the border for generations? Would the migrants fit in with their new state? And then there’s the problem with state capitals moving to other states (Springfield, IL, and Madison, WI, in the scenario above), and cities and counties with the same name as another entity in their new state.
But what this exercise shows is that the way population is distributed in the states can have a profound effect on what happens in the Electoral College, especially if certain areas were to migrate to an adjoining state with more similar political values. You might call it gerrymandering, although the purpose was simply to make more people happy with their state government, not to affect the Electoral College. Of course, migration of people rather than whole counties from one state to another can and does have a similar effect, although not to the same degree.
If you can allow states to dissolve or new ones to be created, it opens up many more possibilities. What would happen to blue cities in a red state, or even blue cities in a bluish state that is otherwise red? Would a number of micro-states be formed? The addition or deletion of senators would be a sticking point to many – not that the idea addressed in this article wouldn’t also be. I may tackle this in another post, assuming I can come up with a suitable framework.
Addendum
Tom Woods has had a number of recent podcasts on the idea of secession: Ep. 2188, “Is National Divorce Anti-Liberty?” , Ep. 2195, “Progressives Try to Suppress Secession Discussion” , Ep. 2221, “Status Quo Bias is our Worst Enemy” , and Ep. 2223, “Smaller is Better” . These discussions were what led me to writing this article.
The northeast corner of New Jersey (Sussex, Warren, and Hunterdon Counties) are deep red. They would gladly vote to leave and join PA – particularly if Philly was leaving PA.
East, West, same thing…
Woops – west.
Yes, I had those counties plus Morris jumping to PA. Philly stayed there, though.
NJ may be dumb, but they ain’t taking Philly.
Build walls around the urban areas. Starve them out.
Cities are supposed to be walled anyway.
“Walls don’t work.”
-Paul Pelosi
This was supposed to be a way to decrease tension, not increase it 🙂
Wouldn’t a Purge be easier?
We’ll feed them the bugs.
+1 Henry V
“Leaving aside the constitutionality of this – although I don’t know of any good argument why it would be forbidden”
I believe it requires the consent of both states and Congress. It’s actually covered, somewhat indirectly, although I can’t be arsed to look it up. Given this, I can only see a state agreeing to give up counties if they threatened the current political order, meaning it is closely balanced. It seems areas only want to leave when it is not closely balanced, though.
If it is balanced, you have a chance of winning in the (theoretical) statewide elections.
Thus the breaking up of states only gets floated when one side has been so abused that they can’t get a fair shake in the system as it is run.
FREE MINNESODA!
THEY CAN TAKE OUR FREEDOM, BUT THEY CAN’T TAKE OUR TATOR TOT HOTDISH!
Well said. This guy gets it. Now do carrot jello and I’m on board.
We will be a pariah nation until we let in international lutefisk inspectors to verify that we are not weaponizing it.
Most of the blue spotches are demographically comprehendible.
But seriously, can one of y’all explain the big ones along the upper Mississippi (Iowa, Wisconsin) and upper Minnesota? I don’t get it.
Large counties
That was striking to me, too, and I don’t understand it either. The bluest ones are either a state capital (Madison), metro area (Quad Cities), or university town (Iowa City), but the more rural areas along the river puzzle me.
Iowa is historically very purple — voting for clinton, bush, obama, and trump (at least once). The state had a very well established manufacturing capability which comes with deep blue labor. Manufacturing has been dying off. The influence of labor is waning. The state elected four R congress critters (the D’s lost eastern Iowa to the Rs) this year. The state also removed the deep blue AG and one other state office. An the Rs increased their dominance in the state house and senate.
Don’t know how long we will stay all Red, but it is new and pronounced right now.
The Arrowhead region of Northern Minnesoda is exceedingly rural, but its politics is dominated by metropolitan Duloot, which is bluer than blue. Deep Blue? Cerulean Blue?
Ultramarine.
And the Iron Range has always been reliably Dem.
Yep, Union members and Native American reservations (handout takers, kept addicted and obedient to the govt).
Those union mine jobs will come back someday!
Seriously, I’m ok with dumping tax dollars into the Range if it prevents the Rangers from migrating out of their territory and terrorizing the nice Minnesodans.
Way back in the ancient times, farmers were a core part of the Dems, as in Minnesota’s DFL.
Well yeah. But I really figured that the Dems’ massive kulturkrieg against anything that’s not super-Proggie would have wiped all that away by now.
Same with the old rust-belt mfg base – they seriously haven’t figured out how much the donks hate them?
Old habits die hard.
“Don’t mess with elderly nuns”?
Here in an old UAW town, there was a lot more Vance signs then Ryan signs.
River traffic on the Mississippi drives (or drove) huge amounts of commerce. Large population centers developed on the river with lots of skilled labor in manufacturing and shipping. Eastern Iowa has been very, very blue for most of my life. The western half is almost all agriculture and has been exceedingly Red for a long, long time.
Sparsely populated, a lot of government hand outs in Northern MN
Even better would be if states could secede entirely.
Then maybe those states could come up with a loose union so they could have free trade and movement.
Maybe a basic set of rules so things don’t get too crazy.
We could call this union “The United States of America” or something.
Fuck you! Let’s kill babies!
It does sound tempting. Babies are the worst.
So noisy. Always covered in feces. Take at least 21 years to be of value. No wonder the commies hate them!
21 years? I could hear OMWC harumph from here.
It’s a Swift solution.
States with too much population should be broken up, i.e. California. Conversely RI and CT are stupid little states and should be merged. Same with DE into MD.
The most important thing is 50 is a nice round number.
I thought it was now 57?
100 is even rounder. 🙂
I’ll be looking at breaking up states next (with some realignment sprinkled in), although I can’t guarantee it’ll get to 100.
128 is better
States can only be a power of 2.
correct
Fine, 1024 states.
We can start with 64.
Chop out the big cities and make them city states. What’s left of those blue states become red states.
That’s kind of what I’ll be looking at next.
Ugh. That’s like 200 senators. Gross.
I know, that bothers me, too.
100 states. 1 Senator per state.
Appointed by the legislature.
If we went to 25 per state, along with a Congesscritter for every 50K people, we have an organization much more prone to gridlock and inaction.
What’s not to love?
We are already broke. I’m not sure we could afford 200 senators. Not only paying for the current staffs and perks, but supporting all the retired senators as well.
Do what NH does.
$100/year. $125/year if you are in a leadership position.
I think you should charge them more than that.
Trim Wilmington off the top of DE and it becomes a red state. Give them the Eastern shore of MD and VA too.
Western MD can fold into West Virginia.
The rest of MD? Into DC.
Oh yeah, Wilmington can go to NJ I guess.
Start merging counties too. Ones in the SE from TX to GA are too numerous.
In Indiana, there are only two really blue areas. One is Indianapolis, which is landlocked. The other is Lake County, in the northwest corner, where I grew up. I have said for years I’d gladly cede that county to Illinois. I think that’s as good an example as any.
Thanks for writing another thought provoking piece.
You could get most of downstate IL in return, though I’m not sure you’d want it.
Hey, I was born there!
I grew up in Effingham.
Indiana don’t want it.
You’re very welcome, TOK!
I hate it when a question comes into my head and the internet keeps trying to answer a different question.
How long does it take between planting the seed and tea being harvestable?
They’re bushes, so I assume it’s a pretty long time.
Wikipedia says about 3 years.
I finally found the number.
Three years.
Three years, it looks like.
https://morningchores.com/growing-tea/
My search terms seem to generate too many false positives.
It’s an interesting article, but I’m in zone 5 so it’s a no-go.
I think I read that it took three years.
You must be reading the same thing I am.
Then the years shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out.
Not going to happen. Though it can work I suppose. I live in a county from which another county was split off back in 1792. Apparently, the split was amenable to the ruling class (now you had twice as many officials to elect!) and they drew an arbitrary line through the original county. Then any farmer whose land was bisected by the line got to vote which county he wanted to be in. The sawtooth township lines between, say, Thornbury Twp., Chester County and Thornbury Twp. , Delaware County are testimony to the farmers’ decisions of whom to be governed by.
Not going to happen.
What happens when there is no more road down which to kick the can?
I think it has to happen. The question is can it be controlled demolition, or does it just implode.
We peacefully accept the results, or pick up and move to a more favorable political climate.
Where?
The world is running out of favorable political climates.
Mars!
I’m trying to raise a kid. I’m told the conditions there are unfavorable for that.
I’ve heard the bars there are wonderful.
The women have 3 boobs!
I don’t want to go to Florida.
Ditto.
Neither do I, but in a few more years I may not have much choice if I want to flee to a red state.
OOOOOOOOOklahoma where the wind comes sweepin’ down the plains!
I also want to be near the ocean, so…
Thar be lakes there. Big ‘uns.
WTF:
We do have some pretty big lakes here in Ohio. And even local news has conceded that Ohio is now a red state.
Unsalted and shark free!
I was going to suggest ceding the whole NE corner of OH to PA, but was surprised to see most of western PA be so red. What’s the little red spot in the Cleveland metro area surrounded by blue? Shaker Heights & vicinity maybe?
GT:
Shaker Heights? Red? Not a chance. Some of the other inner rings suburbs have shifted to red though.
If you’re talking about the map up there, that’s by county so it would be either Lake or Ashtabula county.
You could always come to Texas.
Like the entire rest of the fucking country.
I want to live in a place that doesn’t have weather comperable to South Hell.
I used to live in Philadelphia and NYC, and the weather is way better here.
But I also lived in Southern California so I know it could be much more mild.
Absolutely no one like Texas weather. It is tolerated, not loved.
Does anyone like the weather who doesn’t live in a Mediterranean style balmy climate? Not many.
But I remember living in NYC it was hotter than hell in the summer with about 100% humidity. Not much better than Texas, but without cars and central air conditioning.
And the winters lasted about 2 months too long.
And that’s a place with much milder winters than the Midwest.
Time to bring back the real filibuster.
Cuba would be nice. Or maybe some of Canada?
Already lived there. Too goddamned hot and humid.
Might I suggest Iowa?
The state is now run by Republicans.
Governor, both Senators, all four Representatives, AG, Sec State, State Treasurer, State House, and State Senate.
We just passed a Constitutional amendment to assert the right to bear arms.
And the winters keep the homeless population down.
How could anyone think Iowa has decent weather? It’s colder than Moscow. You people….
Sounds promising.
Not as cold as MN. Not as hot as MO. So what more do you want?
Ringing endorsements there! And on the times you get wind, it shames the wind blowing in Oklahoma.
We had a couple of guys from Norway come to make a presentation one day in January. It was a glorious day — sub-zero temps and howling wind.
They said they could deal with the temps, but they had never experience wind like that before.
Been to Moscow. Iowa is not colder. And winter is no where near as long as Moscow.
Maybe a slight hyperbole.
Slight.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/weather/2021/02/16/iowa-weather-des-moines-record-cold-parts-state-temperatures-more-30-below-zero-tuesday/6761587002/
I’m with Urthona.
I’m in Iowa now, and Mrs. Whiz says that this will be the last winter we are here. We’re looking at Florida (warmer weather, ocean, and MLB spring training). Unfortunately, home prices there have gone up 50% or more just in the last 1.5 years.
Don’t worry! HOME PRICES WILL KEEP CRASHING!!
YAY!
That will be interesting to watch. Last real estate crash, even Texas was hit. This time – will only blue states be hit? And by what percentage? California has these insane “interest only” mortgages where you never actually pay for the house – just the interest. Should home values plummet, you are screwed. Trapped in an over valued property. That type of state-sanctioned shenanigans don’t happen in FL and TX. So I expect much less loss of home value in FL and TX. 1, less stupid loans. 2, everyone is moving there. Can’t crash unless demand crashes.
Retarded movie guy rant over.
We’re renting here.
Not as bad as I expected.
oof.
Sell now if you can, starting looking for new place to buy 6+ months from now.
Make sure you factor in other costs before making the move, too. You can expect your home insurance to be dramatically higher (2-3x is typical), car insurance to be much higher, and utilities will also likely be much higher than you are used to.
And the winters keep the homeless population down.
Down but not out.
NH has homeless people. Nashua and Manchester both have homeless encampments in parks. The Nashua police sometimes raid the camp, which is in a city owned park, kicking the homeless out and removing their tents. Then the homeless come back. Manchester police used to do the same but came under fire from the usual suspects. Strangely, even though some of the usual suspects are in the Nashua city government, I haven’t heard of any of them complaining about the police raiding the homeless camp.
Fucking Anchorage has homeless people camping in parks and alongside roadways. How they get through the winters I’ll never know. Some of them are sheltered in the Sullivan Arena and a few other places, but on the rare occasions we go down to the city in winter we still see tents set up, covered with snow. Urban igloos, I guess.
Isn’t picking up and moving peaceful?
“It depends”
/Goths, Vandals, and Sarmations
Angles, Saxons…
Jutes, Allemani, Franks…
Stolen land!! Return England to the Britons!!
What? No. It’s bad enough they still own Wales.
Comanche?
We thought about it for a long time, “Endeavor to persevere.” And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.
I love the idea of micro-states. I’m only half kidding that Snow Crash provides the model.
These are fun exercises, and I would love to see a no shit succession, but I’m also interested in strategies for evading more of the Blue and Red horseshit and at least pretend to have some liberty.
My micro penis belongs in a micro state.
Liberty? The only place you might get that is a place with damn few Americans anymore. And maybe a few refugees from other totalitarian hellholes.
Yeah, I think most of us would like to see the greater Ancapistan-Libertopia region. But, the real world doesn’t seem to have that on the menu. So, we’re stuck figuring out what deviations from the ideal we can accept. That’s the value in decentralization.
For those of you trying to understand some of the blue or paler red spots, cross reference with a map of Native American territories. Reservations were a misguided attempt to let Native Americans live as “authentically” as possible to compensate for their prior suffering at the hands of the European settlers. Of course now the reservations are depressing hell-holes of chemical addiction and dependency on the US State for handouts. They will vote blue forever, regardless of the depressing and hopeless results.
Similarly, I look at my old home state of Oklahoma. It’s red, but it’s paler red where the African American votes are concentrated: Tulsa, OKC, and Lawton (ft Sill, the end of the line for folks who are done with their military enlistment). They too will always vote blue because they’ve been told that only the Dems have their back and will get them handouts.
We are not just wasting money with government handouts; we are wasting people. Unfulfilled lives because rotten politicians benefit from telling these people that they can never make it without the beneficent hand of government upon them. They internalize that message and thus feel oppressed and worthless.
I hate career politicians.
I hate career politicians.
There’s a reason that “politician” was never intended to be a career in America.
Hamilton wanted life-time Senators. One more reason to piss on his grave.
Cue Lamar Alexander in a plaid shirt!
Hear hear!
I still can’t over how hilariously dumb that idea is. That they’d want to live authentically instead of .. you know… better.
BTW, watch “Reservation Dogs” on Hulu.
I have a little place up on in OK that I stay every other weekend and the local sports team in Kingston, OK is “The Redskins”. The county is mostly Native American with only about 10% college graduates. So apparently natives don’t actually hate the term “Redskins”. Big surprise, eh?
I saw a clip on TV where somebody was interviewing American Indians about whether they were offended by sports team names like the Redskins, Braves, Chiefs, etc. They wondered why they would be insulted as those names were chosen as an homage to the warrior spirit of Native Americans. Which is a great point, after all, you don’t name your team the Douche bags, or Nancy boys, or anything else that would be considered an insult or put down.
Oh totally.
I guess I can *kinda* see Redskins, but…
/looks at the Guardians
I’m over that because the team was also called the Blues, the Bronchos, Forest Cities, and the Naps. Names change.
Tangentially related – I don’t care much about baseball, but am a history buff and utterly despise the renaming trend.
That said, if they’re gonna do it for baseball, I’d totally support using some of the old Negro league names as historical homages.
I don’t have any Braves stuff, but would totally buy a shirt sporting the Atlanta Black Crackers.
I would have no objection to the Braves renaming themselves after Atlanta’s old Negro League team:
The Black Crackers.
I’m not an Atlanta fan, but I would totally buy Atlanta Black Crackers gear.
I know lots of Native Americans who lament the loss of the Washington Redskins. They loved that team. The logo was very respectfully rendered and represented a noble warrior. (I thought if they changed the name from Redskins, they should have gone with Washington Warriors and kept the Native American profile logo).
In high school I was employed by the Chickasaw Nation to provide after school tutoring for “at-risk” Native tribe members. One kid was kind of an emotional wreck. He said he wanted to become a doctor but that his tribal elders made him feel like he’s rejecting his roots if he participates in “white” educational system, but that he felt he didn’t belong in “white” culture either. He was obviously very alone.
One day he just didn’t show up for our session. Turned out he dropped out and became a drug addict.
A waste of a life.
Red Mesa High School, in Arizona, is in Navajo Nation territory and the students are all American Indians. Their teams are the Redskins and they have loudly resisted outside “professional Indians” attempts to make them change it.
Miami U, as far as I ever heard, was always on good terms with the Miami tribe, and one of the Redskins’ team mascots at games was “Chief Miami,” who wore an authentic Miami tribe costume and learned the ceremonial dances directly from tribe members. But, of course, the university finally had to cave and become the “Redhawks.” They probably couldn’t even keep the other, goofier, bird-costumed mascot, “Tom O’Hawk.” (Though if he’s gone, that’s not such a great loss.)
I was going to propose we scalp people who complain about traditional mascots, then I decided the Iron Maiden would be better.
Ah! You’ve taken me back to my high school etymology class, where, if we were very good, our teacher would read to us from The History of Torture. And this was even before we got down to doing any actual etymology.
If I’m not mistaken, the local tribes supported UND being the Fighting Sioux, too.
One did. The other got a no vote from the council. There was a push by the membership to bring it to a tribe-wide vote and the thinking was that it would have passed. The elders refused to allow it and UND had to change the mascot.
Correction, they didn’t have to change the mascot. They had to change the mascot if they ever wanted to play in any
MafiaNCAA sanctioned tournament.The proper response to that is “Bye, NCAA bigots.”
That was my solution, but I wasn’t consulted.
So how come Notre Dame (“the other ND”) still gets to call their teams the Fighting Irish? Why don’t they change their name to something less controversial – say, the Drunken Irish?
THAT’S DIFFERENT!!11!ele11!1!venty!11!1
The Willow Elementary is the “Wolverines.” Starting ’em off right. Now all they need is a logo of a little kid waving an AK over his head.
Yeah, we need to break the cycle of expecting handouts. I’m open to suggestions.
“The land is yours. Do with it as you see fit.”
Relevant.
Two more eastern Oregon counties appeared to join the growing, long-shot campaign to extend Idaho’s western border to add their region to the state, initial midterm election returns indicated.
Oregon’s Morrow and Wheeler counties each voted Tuesday to support the so-called “Greater Idaho” movement, which proposes exiting Oregon to enter the boundaries of its eastern neighbor. If the results hold, that means 11 Oregon counties have adopted the idea since the concept’s launch in 2020.
What about “New California” which would be just little disconnected blobs inside of California?
I support sovereignty and all, but I also really support nice looking maps.
*Holds up map of Holy Roman Empire*
In 1444, right?
Ok you’ve convinced me.
I have to say that at first I was a little surprised that the re-alignment suggested above would have changed the Electoral College result as much as it did. I guess it emphasizes that there really are a lot of red areas that are dominated by large blue cities.
But within the 50-state constraint, it really is a sort of gerrymandering. Or you can say it is effectively valuing land more than people, since the red areas are much larger overall.
Land is permanent, people are replaceable.
To me, the issue of counties seceding is philosophically different from the issue of states seceding. You might use the word “seniority” – or “who begat whom”?
The federal existence (the Constitution) was created BY the states, so they can leave it. That’s obvious for the original ones, and less-so for new ones, but provided they were Constitutionally created, they inherit the supremacy of position.
Counties, however, MOSTLY didn’t band together to create the states. They were rather (mostly/usually) created BY the states, so they’re inferior in that way. So they don’t have the same relative position that the states do with respect to the country. Ones that were created before states existed (mostly talking creations of the British crown) were usually, I think, subordinate to the colony.
So, states can secede, counties mostly can’t.
True, secession usually ends up with that entity being in control of itself, not just under control of a different entity. I used several different terms in the text of the article, so maybe one of them would have better for the title.
Re-alignment probably describes it best.
Perhaps the counties don’t have an inherent “right” to secede (although I’m inclined to think that any polity is ultimately only so worthwhile as it is useful to its members). But, there are times it simply makes more political sense to separate. A few counties that don’t share the culture or circumstances of the majority in their state, it probably is unjust to make them remain within a state that they may well feel doesn’t represent their values or conditions. At the same time, a committed minority can make the political process miserable for that majority.
I’d like to thank Whiz for this well-researched and thoughtful article. Secession is becoming a topic of interest once again, but usually in the context of States (generally Texas) seceding from the union altogether. Look for more Glibs articles on secession and secession movements in the future.
I second this! It’s a fantastic article. Well done!
Thank you!
Agreed!
Yes! Thanks Whiz!
on secession and secession movements
Damn, now that is some deep cover Fed work there!
Great article, and excellent discussion. Some form of secession is inevitable. It would be nice if it didn’t require a lot of major disruption, but major disruption will be required to effect real change. Fuck it, I might just move to Montana.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=smZA9Jv3qH0
It’s an interesting idea. Alaska has a decent port, good fisheries and lots of timber, not to mention shitloads of natural gas and oil. We could get by on an extraction economy until some kind of industrial base could start up.
Counties in western Virginia (1.8 M) are dismayed by the bluing of their state – they could go to West Virginia, reuniting with territory that was originally in Virginia. The tip of Virginia connected to Delaware might also switch there (only 45 k there, however). A few counties in northwest Maryland (97 k) might also prefer West Virginia. The parts of Maryland east of the Chesapeake Bay (1.5 M) might prefer to switch to Delaware since Delaware is less blue than Maryland.
This would have to be allowed by the state legislature. And I’d rather just give NoVa to Maryland.
That’s certainly another possibility.
Call it Panem?
If the government were not so enormously intrusive into our lives, it wouldn’t even matter that much who won elections.
The problem is the reach of government; that’s what’s driving the divisiveness and talk of secession. Instead of rethinking how we divvy up the country, how about repealing laws and shedding government agencies?
As ever, the root cause is this. Which makes me think no solution that doesn’t address the root cause will do much.
Totally.
This was my joke earlier about The United States of America.
This would be no big deal at all if the country was anything like it was support to be.
Yeah the COTUS scaled quite nicely to such a large booming population, until politicians realized the lack of punishment of adherence about 5 minutes after the ink dried.
*supposed.
Could I pay $8 a month for a blue check and an edit feature?
Problem solved if government is held to the actual constraints of the constitution. But that’s unlikely to happen other than in small increments here and there.
Now we’re talking!
Looks like my girl, Boebert, has taken a slight lead.
She is a cutie.
Don’t know much else about her.
She seems a little wacky.
Then again, would you rather be stuck in an elevator with Boebert or AOC?
Why not both? So long as I can gag both
Unless you’re deformed you can only gag one at a time.
You’ve never heard of a ball gag?
That only inhibits intelligible speech – which coming from the two in question is already a moot point.
She seems wacky, but not wacky enough to support communism. So there’s that.
Wackiness is magnified over the TV. I bet in person she is far less so.
The television adds 10 points of wackiness.
The time I was on it added about 120 points.
Wacky but feisty – bet she’d be a wild one.
CO-8 is tightening up too. The D now leads by 134 with 92% reporting.
8 is the new district and it was designed to be pretty damn balanced. And is.
If you can allow states to dissolve or new ones to be created, it opens up many more possibilities.
🙂
DEG-topia in 3.. 2.. 1..
🙂
No state will ever voluntarily dissolve or give up territory/people.
Huh. I may take that bet. What if leftist Oregon became so disgusted with the country folks that they agreed to let them go? I could see that vote happening. I shall bet one standard Glib unit (a beer) on that. And I say it will happen within 5 years.
Given my history of bets here, I should pass on that.
Five years from now a standard Glib unit may cost $45. Go Brandon!
Because if you’re an Oregon Proggie, your deepest desire is to CONTROL those country folks. The more disgusted you are with them, the harder you want to stick it to them. “Letting them go” is the last thing you’d ever do.
This.
The Icky People™
The “Oregon” part of that was unnecessary – they all feel that way. Raw power is the only thing progs value.
It isn’t raw power that they crave, specifically. It is that they think they are The Righteous! and thus need to spread the word.
West Virginia voluntarily gave up the big eastern half of the state.
Reconquista! At least to the the Blue Ridge (which once was the boundary between the civilized and savage peoples, why not again).
Great breakdown on a very topical subject. I’m looking forward to the follow-up articles.
The ME/NE plan for electoral votes mostly fixes this issue, without counties jumping to new states — at least at the federal level. It does nothing for within state governance, obviously.
I don’t see any other states likely to adopt that method on their own, so it would require an amendment.
I have long advocated forcing Fairfax, Loudoun, and Prince William counties to be ceded to Maryland, where they belong. It would improve Virginia so greatly.
Look, asshole, I’m not moving back to Maryland. I have to work there, I’m not living there too.
You don’t have to move anywhere, we’ll bring Maryland to you! haha
*angry gun-cleaning noises*
Believe me, I understand.
But the NOVA creep down 95 is going to reach Hanover eventually, by which point I hope I’m already dead.
Well, you kinda are.
Nah, the moment he crosses the border, he’s dead inside.
Those three counties are mostly inhabited by people indistinguishable from the residents of Montgomery and Prince Georges counties.
Alternatively we could reunite the Virginias so it would be as god intended.
Leave Kentucky out of it.
WV says leave us out too. Give NOVA back to the swamp.
Give them to DC. And no, I’m not proposing DC get statehood.
You can personally secede from a state. It’s called moving to another state. But part of a state actually seceding from another state? Without violence? Not happening, it takes violence to free up that sweet revenue, folks.
Why should I move? They’re the ones who suck.
Well, they’ll be glad to keep your taxes.
clap clap clap.
Great reference.
https://babylonbee.com/news/snl-writers-boycott-making-for-funniest-episode-in-years
Hahahha! Probably completely accurate. I still won’t watch it. I winder what SNL’s audience is now? In comparison to like, Svengoolie and Lost in Space?
My client isn’t really grokking the whole self-publishing bit, despite me having kind of half-walked her through it on a previous book, and she’s trying to coordinate different vendors. She is happy to hand the reins over to me to coordinate. I’m now working directly with another vendor who also is not grokking what I’ve told her 3 times. At some point, I got tired of it and said, “Please do not do anything else until I’m done with my part and then I will supply you with everything you need to do your part.” We will see if client steps in, but I doubt it. I think she’s happy I’ve taken over.
OMG I’M ABOUT TO STRANGLE SOMEBODY.
I know the feeling.
I had a call this week with an uptalking bitch who wanted us to build new call flows, and provided arrows pointing at numbered boxes. When we asked what the numbers meant, she said “I don’t know. You’ll have to determine that.”
We implement, we don’t make business decisions.
Lol.
I just told someone I was ready to machine gun one of my reps.
Is it Friday, yet?
Why yes it is, for some of us.
False.
Join me @ @ArcticBasecamp in bringing attention to the melting issue. We need world leaders to take action at COP 27!
The Arctic is melting at Millions of Liters per second, yet this problem can’t seem to make a name for itself, so we’ll make a name for it.
Go to link in bio
ha!
I avoid culture war stuff, but this person should probably not be in a men’s prison.
So what is your threshold for determining where the prisoners go?
I’m okay with biology.
Wardens are allowed or even encouraged to take social realities into account.
Give discretion to a bureaucrat? That’s madness.
Yup, biology should decide.
A penis?
Some prison went the other direction and the trannies ended up raping female inmates.
But then all the prisons would have to hire biologists.
This. Anything else is purely subjective.
Prisons have a lot of problems but they’re not there to satisfy your feels.
OK. But where would this person go?
For kinnath
https://www.wincogen.com/product/pss20b2wc/
https://www.wincogen.com/product/pss21f4/
If you have the funds, go for the second one. It will last next to forever if properly maintained (cycled, change the oil every three years at a minimum)
The first is also acceptable, but the key differences are that the Vanguard engine turns at 3600rpm, is quite a bit noisier, and will wear faster.
The four cylinder engine on the second one turns at 1800rpm and is oversized for the application. My father has an equivalent that is over thirty years old and it still runs like a top. Winco has been building generators for a hundred years now. Their stuff just works.
In order to determine the best installer, I’ll need an approximate location in the state.
zip 52352
What is the difference between the open skid and sound pak?
One is silenced and better protected from the elements.
Worth the extra 3200 bucks?
Yes. The unit will last longer when not fully exposed to the elements and the noise will be cut significantly. UV is not your friend when it comes to fuel lines and plastic components.
Skid units are commonly used in military applications and some agricultural use, but not very much elsewhere because they are quite loud.
got it
So no enclosure until I pay for it on the big unit, right?
Correct. They usually build these to the order.
thanks
Glibertarians.com: come for the snark, stay for the incredibly diverse knowledge base.
Bookmarked. Thanks, Scruffy.
Just so you know for negotiating purposes, dealer discount on these units is typically 30%.
I don’t know if it will be of much help in the current supply constrained environment, but it might come in useful.
good to know
So basically choose good for 11K or great for 23K.
I may not last as long as the great model.
Yes
If you expect infrequent usage with a low duty cycle (not operating 24/7 for a week) the less expensive unit is fine.
If you expect that when the power goes out, it will stay out for an extended period, the larger unit can better handle the continuous runtime. And the bigger engine is more reliable.
I the past the area has suffered one ice storm that took out power for 10 days and a derecho 2 years ago that took our power for 2 weeks in some locations.
We have not had more than 14 hours or so without power, but two weeks is possible.
Normally, we have interrupts for a couple of hours once or twice each summer for thunderstorms.
Naturally the Bee has a best take on Biden and Fetterlump…
Seems legit.
Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his company were ordered Thursday to pay an extra $473 million to victims’ families and an FBI agent for calling the 2012 Sandy Hook school shooting a hoax, adding to a nearly $1 billion jury verdict issued last month.
The only appropriate response.
So up to 2bn now?
This is the part where you take your camping gear and just go off into the woods and catch rabbits to eat.
Here in Glibs Gulch territory, people hate NYC and hate the NY state government. But no way we’ll join PA, though it would be fun to more directly observe the spray of chunky brown and black pus from our new senator’s neck lump.
What if secession was not linked to nearby states? You could secede to Florida. Austin, TX could secede to California.
Hah! That would be wild, and that idea has been floated here before. Just to narrow it down, I considered only contiguous situations.
I hope you guys are right.
.@charliekirk11: “This is their PR advance. And every ballot from this point forward will be a bloodbath for the @katiehobbs campaign.”
Not to wish ill on anyone (who doesn’t deserve it,) but there’s always a chance Mother Nature will take care of that pesky blue stripe along the Cali coast.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present the president of the United States of America.
I had this press conference on the car radio yesterday. In addition to the Porky Pig moment, he also referred to referred to a city in Ukraine as “Falluja.” Let’s concentrate on one foreign-policy fuck-up at a time, Joe.
Stfu, man…You aren’t helping.
Now that the Election in Florida is over, and everything went quite well, shouldn’t it be said that in 2020, I got 1.1 Million more votes in Florida than Ron D got this year, 5.7 Million to 4.6 Million? Just asking?
He’s such a child.
What a fucking man-child. I wonder what the difference in voter turnout was between 2020 and 2022.
He needs to put his foot in his mouth more often, and quickly so everyone says “fuck this” and the party can move on.
I’m in Idaho. I’m down with the greater Idaho movement.
I do not want Spokane, Whitman, or Asotin county WA as part of Idaho. We’re commie enough already.