Stoic Friday XIV

by | Apr 21, 2023 | Advice, LifeSkills, Musings | 118 comments

Last Week

Meditations

How to Be a Stoic

How to Think Like a Roman Emperor

If you have anger issues, this one is a great tool (h/t mindyourbusiness)

This week’s book:

Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic

Disclaimer: I’m not your Supervisor. These are my opinions after reading through these books a few times.

Picking up where I left off with Seneca’s letters to his friend and student, Lucilius Junior, an official in Sicily.

Following is a paragraph-by-paragraph discussion of the letter. Seneca’s text appears in bold, my replies are in normal text.

ON THE FAULTS OF THE SPIRIT

I WONDER whether there’s anything I couldn’t be persuaded into now, after letting myself be persuaded recently into taking a trip by sea. The sea was quite calm when we cast off. The sky was certainly heavily overcast, with the kind of dark clouds that generally break in a squall or downpour. But in spite of the uncertain, threatening skies, I thought it would be perfectly feasible to make it across the few miles from your Parthenope over to Puteoli. And so, with the object of getting the crossing over quicker, I headed straight for Nesis over the open water to cut out all the intervening curves of the coast-line. Now when I had got so far across that it made no odds whether I went on or turned back, first of all the smoothness which had tempted me to my undoing disappeared.

It seems as though Seneca did not like to travel by boat, but one day took a short voyage on a calm day. When they were in the middle of the trip, the weather turned nasty. I imagine sailing was a lot more of a gamble when there was no way of knowing what weather patterns were on the other side of the sea.  It is only 9 miles on land between Pozzuoli and Naples, and to avoid the rugged shore, they went a little further out to the Island Nisida.

There was no storm as yet, but a heavy swell was running by then and the waves were steadily getting rougher. I began asking the helmsman to put me ashore somewhere. He kept saying the coast was a rugged one without a haven anywhere and that there was nothing he feared quite so much in a storm as a lee shore. I was in far too bad a way, though, for any thought of possible danger to enter my head, as I was suffering the torments of that sluggish brand of seasickness that will not bring one relief, the kind that upsets the stomach without clearing it. So I put pressure on him and compelled him, willy-nilly, to make for the shore. Once we were close in there was no waiting on my part for anything to be done in the manner commended by Virgil,

Bows faced seawards
or
Anchor cast from bow.

Seasickness can be horrible. I have only had mild cases of it, but i have seen many people seasick at once and that memory makes me a little uncomfortable. Even the Stoic Seneca was overwhelmed by it and did not make logical decisions because of his illness.

Remembering my training as a long-standing devotee of cold baths, I dived into the sea in just the way a cold-water addict ought to – in my woolly clothes. You can imagine what I suffered as I crawled out over the rocks, as I searched for a route to safety or fought my way there. It made me realize how right sailors are in being afraid of a lee shore. What
I endured, in my inability to endure my then self, is beyond belief. You can take it from me that the reason Ulysses got himself wrecked everywhere was not so much because Neptune was against him from the day he was born, but because he was given to seasickness like me – it’ll take me twenty years to reach my destination, too, if I ever have to journey anywhere by sea!

Because of his inability to deal with his seasickness on the ship, he now wound up in an actual dangerous situation. He jokes that Ulysses had many ship wrecks so it took him 10 years, but Seneca has such a hard time with seasickness that he will take twice as long.

As soon as I’d settled my stomach (for stomachs, as you know, aren’t clear of seasickness the moment they’re clear of the sea) and rubbed  myself over with embrocation to put some life back into my body, I began to reflect how we are attended by an appalling forgetfulness of our weaknesses, even the physical ones which are continually bringing themselves to our notice, and much more so with those that are not only more serious but correspondingly less apparent. A slight feverishness may deceive a person, but when it has developed to the point where a genuine fever is raging it will extract an admission that something is wrong from even a tough and hardened individual. Suppose our feet ache, with little needling pains in the joints: at this stage we pass it off and say we’ve sprained an ankle or strained something in some exercise or other; while the disorder is in its indeterminate, commencing phase, its name eludes us, but once it starts bending the feet in just the way an ankle-rack does and makes them both misshapen, we have to confess that we’ve got the gout.

It is hard to admit that when I have any illness or weakness. I limped through running for years before I finally had to admit that I couldn’t run any more. The Dr. looked at the MRI and said he could tell that I had sprained that ankle a few times and probably ran on it before it was healed. Because of this, I had dead cartilage and needed reconstructive surgery. During my Marine Corps career, I had many injuries and always tried to push through them or went back on full duty while I was still hurt. I have learned in my old age and am much more careful about injuries and pushing through pain.

With afflictions of the spirit, though, the opposite is the case: the worse a person is, the less he feels it. You needn’t feel surprised, my dearest Lucilius; a person sleeping lightly perceives impressions in his dreams and is sometimes, even, aware during sleep that he is asleep, whereas a heavy slumber blots out even dreams and plunges the mind too deep for
consciousness of self. Why does no one admit his failings? Because he’s still deep in them.

I had anger issues for years, but I didn’t see them as a problem, it was “normal”. As I started to study Stoicism, I began to see how the anger was harmful and counter productive.

It’s the person who’s awakened who recounts his dream, and acknowledging one’s failings is a sign of health. So let us rouse ourselves, so that we may be able to demonstrate our errors. But only philosophy will wake us; only philosophy will shake us out of that heavy sleep. Devote yourself entirely to her. You’re worthy of her, she’s worthy of you – fall into each other’s arms. Say a firm, plain no to every other occupation. There’s no excuse for your pursuing philosophy merely in moments when occasion allows. If you were sick you would take a rest from attending to your personal affairs and drop your practice in the
courts. And during a spell of improvement in your condition you wouldn’t look on any client as being so important that you’d undertake his case in court. No, you’d devote your entire attention to recovering  from your illness in the quickest possible time.

I try to devote more time to studying philosophy, but I get distracted. I can see a difference in my mentality and self control when I do a better job of it. I need to make a priority out of it and limit my fun reading a little bit. The last couple weeks, the only Stoic reading I was doing was this weekly article.

Well, then, aren’t you going to do the same in these circumstances? Away with every obstacle and leave yourself free to acquire a sound mind – no one ever attains this if he’s busy with other things. Philosophy wields an authority of her own; she doesn’t just accept time, she grants one it. She’s not something one takes up in odd moments. She’s an active, full-time mistress, ever present and demanding. When some state or other offered Alexander a part of its territory and half of all its property he told them that ‘he hadn’t
come to Asia with the intention of accepting whatever they cared to give him, but of letting them keep whatever he chose to leave them.’ Philosophy, likewise, tells all other occupations: ‘It’s not my intention to accept whatever time is left over from you; you shall have, instead, what I reject.’

If I truly long to control myself and be a tranquil person as I tell myself I want to do, then I should reread this section often. The time I waste when I could be learning is not something I can make up later, which is what I tell myself.

Give your whole mind to her. Sit at her side and pay her constant court, and an enormous gap will widen between yourself and other men. You’ll  end up far in advance of all mankind, and not far behind the gods themselves. Would you like to know what the actual difference between yourself and the gods will be? They will exist for longer. And yet to me
what an indisputable mark it is of a great artist to have captured everything in a tiny compass; a wise man has as much scope before him as a god with all eternity in front of him. There is one thing, too, in which the wise man actually surpasses any god: a god has nature to thank for his immunity from fear, while the wise man can thank his own efforts for this. Look at that for an achievement, to have all the frailty of a human being and all the freedom from care of a god. Philosophy’s power to blunt all the blows of circumstance is beyond belief. Never a missile lodges in her; she has strong, impenetrable defences; some blows she breaks the force of, parrying them with the slack of her gown as if they were trivial, others she flings off and hurls back at the sender.

As I have improved in the study of Stoicism, I have improved my life. Is it in any material way? No, nor does it make me healthier or likely to live longer. I still have a long way to go, for instance, if I had to go to the hospital and wear a mask, my blood pressure would be high. I still catch myself getting angry when I work in my garage, but there is almost an insincerity about the anger most days and I can laugh myself out of it. There are still times when I actually feel a deeper anger and it takes more work to get me out of that mentality.

 

Music this week is from W.A.S.P.

I am not a huge fan, I only have The Headless Children CD, but it does have some good tunes.

It starts off solid.

Headless Children is another good one.

I love this cover, the bass and drums rip.

 

About The Author

ron73440

ron73440

What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade MOLON LABE

118 Comments

  1. mikey

    I’m trying to be Stoic, but JHTDC it snowing again!

    • Bobarian LMD

      I was unclear what the D was for in that string. Shouldn’t it be an F?

      I now realize that your messiah is more limber an a lot less profane than mine.

  2. R.J.

    “ I still catch myself getting angry when I work in my garage.”
    Amen! I am pretty sure there is an exception to cursing in the Old Testament when automobile work is involved. It’s somewhere in Leviticus.

    • ron73440

      Thou shalt not lose your temper and throw something.

      Unless it’s a wrench, then it’s understandable.

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        I think it’s “though shall remember Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosy even when the bolt is upside down” or else FUUUUUCCKKKK Our Father, who art heaven…

      • Bobarian LMD

        If you can dodge a wrench…

    • juris imprudent

      Yep, “if thy chariot vex thee…”

    • Gustave Lytton

      Jesus clips are New Testament.

  3. Not Adahn

    My shipment from Brnik is being delayed due to “the situation in Ukraine.” And yet, I rage at neither Putin nor the lying liars at the shipping company who think Americans can’t google a map of Europe.

    • juris imprudent

      You doubt that they put it on a barge down the Danube?

    • limey

      A thick Polish accent comes down the line.

      “Sorry yes [suppressed laughter in background] we have put peckage on big American rocket [suppressed laughter bursts into a snigger followed by shushing] and it hev exploded. So sorry [stifled howl of laughter in background] but perheps you ask mister Elon for money beck. Rocket not good for delivery of product. Bye bye.” A sound suggesting someone in the background falls off his chair is audible before the call cuts off.

      • Sean

        <==

      • Bobarian LMD

        Old Pollock joke.

        Delivery truck, it crash in cemetery. Is major disaster. Only driver survive. 30 body recovered so far, as digging continue. Package be delayed.

    • mikey

      Brnik.
      Consonant to vowel ratio = 4:1
      If Derpy were still around he could tell us what the average ratios by language are.

      • Not Adahn

        It’s not in the same country as Brno.

    • Ted S.

      During the 1999 Kosovo war I tried to send a letter to Radio Slovakia International, with the last line of the address reading, Bratislava, Slovak Republic. I got the letter back saying I needed to write the name of the country in English. So I added “Slovakia” to the address and took the letter to the post office, where I was told deliveries to Slovakia were allegedly suspended due to the war over there.

  4. The Late P Brooks

    I still catch myself getting angry when I work in my garage

    I can’t remember anything fighting me like that piece of shit Element. I was heartily and sincerely pissed many times. If something did actually just “fall into place” without a struggle, I started to suspect a trap.

    • ron73440

      I am currently replacing the heater core in my truck.

      To do this, the entire dash needs to come out.

      Mine is cracked, but had a cover on it.

      When I put a screwdriver on the HVAC control, the plastic behind the screw shattered like I had hit it with a hammer.

      I just laughed and said, “you have got to be kidding me”.

      My wife was there, and she was amazed at my reaction.

      She said she was bracing herself for a “cuss storm” but was happy it didn’t happen.

      Progress!

      • Sensei

        しまった!

        I finally broke down and purchased an electric impact for changing wheels. Just tested it out a few minutes ago. Beats the breaker bar by a long shot, but it’s not nearly as easy on the hands and wrists as an air impact. Ouch!

        I’m assuming since you’ve got the whole dash out you are going to replace the dash cover now too. I know that’s a common replacement item and I believe there are aftermarket replacements.

      • ron73440

        Replacing the whole dash.

        The cover was just a stick-on plastic piece that looked like the dashtop.

        I bought a new dash from LMC Truck and had the “while I’m in there” snowball hit, so I am changing the color of the interior and putting in a vinyl floor.

      • Sensei

        Legit LOL.

        That’s always the case.

  5. Rebel Scum

    I have to be stoic to tolerate this bullshit.

    Been reading through the thread. It is an interesting case study in the quality (or lack thereof…) of modern, collegiate debate. In short, it’s a fucking train wreck.

    • WTF

      It’s a little tough to put all the blame on the kids when they’ve been indoctrinated to think like that their entire lives.
      It’s really kind of sad.

      • kinnath

        Nope, I happy to blame the shit out of them.

        They are a debate team. They are trained in logic and defeating fallacies. In this case, then fail utterly at seeing their own fallacies.

        Fuck’m

      • WTF

        They are trained in logic and defeating fallacies.

        Assumes facts not in evidence.

      • Pine_Tree

        Yeah, that’s not what debaters are trained in.

        They’re trained to pile on words and never concede a point. Logic and reason and problem-solving are the farthest things from their minds and practices. And the more outlandish and esoteric their arguments, the better (in their minds).

        I’ve pretty much figured out, as a matter of fact, that (warning, some of y’all may get hit by this), that being a debater makes one unsuitable for being the kind of Engineer that I need in my org. They can’t back up, listen, adjust, etc. Just keep on and on with their own positions as above.

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        They go on to become Lawyers.

      • kinnath

        I admit, the world has changed since I was on the high-school debate team back in the 70s.

        Yes, piling on words was a strategy. But catching your opponents logical mistakes and then piling on was the winning strategy.

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        Remember when those two black chicks “won” the debate by completely ignoring the rules and just rapped about oppression, or some such shit?

        The whole thing went out the door at that point.

      • Gustave Lytton

        They’re not kids. They’re adults at an university.

    • Fatty Bolger

      Pathetic. And the debate team account is getting owned in the comments, and they don’t even realize it.

      • Rebel Scum

        Well AcKsHuAlLy they are like totally for REASON, EVIDENCE, and SCIENCE unlike those bigoted, unserious panderers that disagree with them on any particular topic.

        You just say your opposition is conspiracy theorizing and/or intolerant and BOOM. No need to debate.

      • Sean

        Some good commenting going on there.

      • ron73440

        And the debate team account is getting owned in the comments, and they don’t even realize it.

        That’s the problem.

        If they don’t see how backwards their logic is, I don’t know that they can be convinced.

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        They can’t. But, and this is the important part, everyone reading that thread sees through the BS and reacts accordingly.

    • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

      The fun part of it is that no one, and I mean no one, takes the “debate” teams side in this.

  6. The Late P Brooks

    The nation exhibits every indication of falling apart around us. All I can do is try to focus on things I can control.

    That’s all I got.

    • R C Dean

      Pretty much where I am. I think I’m getting better at it. I no longer expect Our Masters to do the right thing by us, so I’m not disappointed when they don’t. I follow the political news much less, and mostly for entertainment.

      My late night ponderments are turning toward whether I want to be here in the US for the decline/crash, or somewhere else. It’s a tough one. When the US really hits the steep part of the slope, I think it’s going to be bad everywhere (economically at least, and that always knocks on to social problems).

  7. kinnath

    I was reading a pamphlet on bicycle repair a long, long time ago.

    It said that a hammer and a block of wood were essential tools to have in the shop.

    So, when you repairing a hub, and one of the ball bearings rolls off the back of the work bench, never to be seen again; then you pick up the hammer, pound on the block of woods, and scream profanities until your vision returns to normal.

    • ron73440

      I am way better than I used to be, but putting a junkyard turbo in my Saab was a test.

      I am just glad I checked the studs and found they were cross threaded before I installed it, or I would have failed.

      I ended up taking the vacuum canister and diaphragm off that one and putting those parts on my original one and it’s been running strong for 2 weeks now.

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        And that is how you do it.

    • ron73440

      “George is getting upset!”

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        “The internet was angry that day, my friends!”

        “It’s a mammal, George.
        Whatever.”

    • Sean

      That’s fantastic.

    • The Other Kevin

      When I hear one of them complaining about this, all I can hear is an entitled asshole screaming “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?”

    • kinnath

      This page is down

      oops

      • Rebel Scum

        I’ve been getting that on twatter links for the past few min.

  8. Scruffyy Nerfherder

    Here we go!

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/chile-stuns-markets-and-ev-makers-nationalizing-lithium-industry-overnight

    Chile’s President Gabriel Boric stunned the world on Thursday when he said he would nationalize the country’s lithium industry, the world’s second largest producer of the metal essential in electric vehicle batteries, to boost its economy and protect its environment.

    The shock move in the country with the world’s largest lithium reserves would in time transfer control of Chile’s vast lithium operations from industry giants SQM and Albemarle to a separate state-owned company.

    • Dr. Fronkensteen

      Seems like Chile is in need of some more helicopters.

    • Grumbletarian

      It can’t fail. I mean, Venezuela nationalized their oil industry and just look at them now.

      • Dr. Fronkensteen

        Well except for the problems caused by the wreckers, Kulaks, and saboteurs.

    • The Other Kevin

      I don’t really blame them. The US has gone all in on EV’s, so this gives them a ton of political leverage. Not saying it’s right, just as a power play it makes sense.

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        This pretty much guarantees that the US won’t go EV.

      • Pine_Tree

        Oh, well good then.

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        Oh, we will still get the reg’s, just no ability to drive them.

      • Scruffyy Nerfherder

        Oh DC has a response to that: https://twitter.com/MintPressNews/status/1633509433811640325

        Sen. Lindsey Graham will introduce a bill that would allow the US military to use force in Mexico less than a month after President AMLO moved forward with plans to nationalize Mexico’s lithium.

      • Ownbestenemy

        I’ve told my middle son that we are headed to a resource war.

      • WTF

        God forbid we mine it here:
        The US used to be the top lithium producer, but it lost that status right around when lithium began to be more important, first with personal electronics,” Thea Riofrancos, an associate professor of political science at Providence College whose research focuses on resource extraction and renewable energy, told DW.

        Lithium production moved overseas beginning in the 1970s, and now there is only one active mine left in the country, in Clayton Valley near Silver Peak, Nevada. The site is operated by mining giant Albemarle, which also runs a mine in Chile’s Salar de Atacama and is a large stakeholder in the world’s largest hard-rock lithium mine in Australia.

      • juris imprudent

        Environmentalists will find another judge who will.

      • Fatty Bolger

        The interesting thing about lithium is that we have a lot of it right here, a lot more than Mexico in fact.

      • WTF

        Of course the greens won’t allow it to be mined here.

      • juris imprudent

        Environmental destruction is for POC outside the U.S.

      • R C Dean

        The goal has never been to have 1 for 1 replacement of ICE vehicles with EVs. The goal has always been to force us to give up our personal transportation.

      • Compelled Speechless

        ^^^^^^^^^^^^

      • Gustave Lytton

        give up our personal transportation

      • Gender Traitor

        give up our personal transportation

      • limey

        You beat me too it

      • The Other Kevin

        Why would you let companies from China, for instance, run mines, when you can nationalize and extort the US for a bunch of aid money?

      • Scruffyy Nerfherder

        I’d bet money that the IMF and World Bank offer Chile loans in the near term.

        That’s their schtick: loan a shit-ton of money to natural resource rich third world countries, let them go hog wild on spending (or maybe even encourage it), then swoop in with austerity measures when they fail, gaining political and monetary control of the country, usually buying up assets on the cheap.

        And if the commodity markets happen to swing the wrong way at the exact wrong time for Chile, well that’s just a happy coincidence for the Davos set, now isn’t it?

      • Pine_Tree

        Aaaaand, the nationalized Li company will turn out to be quite the new Burisma.

  9. Timeloose

    This commie dipshit is trying my stoicism.

    “Rather than vote in favor of a motion banning the unlawful possession of catalytic converters — a valuable automotive part — Nithya Raman, a Los Angeles councilwoman, voted against the measure and blamed car manufacturers for making the part too easy to steal.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/l-councilwoman-blames-toyota-catalytic-133800854.html

    The law in question is asinine, but her argument against it is so stupid that it could have come only from an ivy league graduate in humanities. Nithya Raman was born in Kerala, India, and moved to Louisiana at 6 years old.[4] She earned a bachelor’s degree in political theory from Harvard University then a master’s degree in urban planning from MIT.

    • Grumbletarian

      Wow. That’s like blaming stores for thefts from shoplifting because packs of gum aren’t individually chained to the floor.

      • Sensei

        She was asking for it, She was wearing tight revealing clothing.

      • kinnath

        If she didn’t want to be raped, she should have been wearing a chastity belt with the key stored in a safe place.

    • Sean

      Yo, Isuzu is definitely guilty of that. She may be dumb, but she’s not wrong on that topic.

      Isuzu could not have made it any easier to steal the cats from work trucks. Then those motherfuckers wanted nine THOUSAND dollars for TWO replacements.

      • Scruffyy Nerfherder

        Yep

      • Zwak tastes the soup, but never counts the beans.

        Platinum is not cheap, but Isuzu (and Toyota) is.

      • Timeloose

        The large panel trucks or a small pick ups like the Hombre?

        Did they have a dotted line with cut here engraved on the pipes?

      • Sean

        NPR

    • Gustave Lytton

      Prohibiting non-native born of a specific jurisdiction would end a lot of this shit.

      • Gustave Lytton

        *prohibiting non-native born of a specific jurisdiction from holding office

    • Ted S.

      I think it came from the JMU debate team.

  10. Rebel Scum

    Speaking of dummies.

    Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., turned heads Thursday by stressing the need for “female dummies” in car crash testing during a congressional hearing.

    During the House Appropriations Committee hearing on the Department of Transportation budget, DeLauro used her time to praise Transportation Secretary Pete Butigieg’s initiatives to rectify the “gender inequity” among crash victims.

    DeLauro singled out the “use of female dummies” for roadway crash testing as one of these Buttigieg initiatives she supports.

    Crash test dummies are non-binary.

    • Scruffyy Nerfherder

      Got to protect those titties.

    • The Other Kevin

      So those commercials that showed crash tests with a “family” of male, female, and child dummies were made up? Can I believe anything anymore?

    • Ownbestenemy

      Look we need equality. I expect next call is for trangender dummies

      • The Other Kevin

        That’s a problem that solves itself. Just use male dummies, call them female, and accuse anyone who disagrees with being transphobic.

        We call this model “The Lea”, and that one “The Dylan”.

    • ron73440

      The Crone has spoken!

    • whiz

      So DeLauro is auditioning to be used in crash tests herself?

    • Ownbestenemy

      How long til those who he pays for claim he defamed them

    • Sensei

      Perfect.

  11. DEG

    I try to devote more time to studying philosophy, but I get distracted.

    Something similar to me today.

    I have the day off. My initial plan was to get an early start, get to the gym, then get work done outside.

    I’ve had several days of bad sleep, just before I went to bed last night I turned my alarm off. I slept most of the morning away. I made it to the gym. There was eye candy plus I got some good work done. Now I’m at home nursing some boozy coffee and reading Glibs. I’ll do a little yard work later.

    • DEG

      /looks at clock

      Or maybe I won’t get yard work done today.

      • Sean

        Slacker.

    • R.J.

      I pray Elon sets up a macro to put a dollar sign emoji on every account that complains, with the phrase “I WANT MY $5.”

      • R.J.

        It’s up to eight dollars now?
        *Dons reflective vest, joins French protesters. Because they are the best protesters.

      • Scruffyy Nerfherder

        Perfect

      • Sean

        Hehe

    • R C Dean

      “If you don’t want to pay for the blue check, I guess it has no value to you. Why are you complaining about losing something that has no value to you?”

  12. R C Dean

    Now this is an entertaining Twitter account. Kind of a clearinghouse for spoiler alerts, I mean, conspiracy theories.

    https://twitter.com/iluminatibot

  13. Tundra

    Remembering my training as a long-standing devotee of cold baths, I dived into the sea in just the way a cold-water addict ought to – in my woolly clothes.

    Aaaagh! Cold plunge hipsters have been around for centuries!

    • Sean

      I “need” a compact.

      • Bobarian LMD

        Pictured

        You’ve got shiny cheeks?

  14. Rebel Scum

    Fucking retards…

    NEW – All NATO allies “agree Ukraine will become member.”

    • Scruffyy Nerfherder

      I’m sure it was a condition of admission.

      Barring a war in which they’re victorious, NATO’s done.

    • Tundra

      What’s left of it, anyway.

  15. Penguin

    The story I heard is, John Entwhistle went in first at the studio and they told “we’re only trying to get levels. Go nuts. Play whatever you want.” So he did. The rest of the guys heard it and said “yeah, we’ll stick with that. So you have a song wrapped around a bass solo. (Not that I mind). Bitch to learn, though.

    One of the reasons why I say the correct paradigm is The Who>>Stones>>Beatles.