More muddled meanderings

by | May 25, 2023 | History, Musings, Society | 135 comments

Years ago I read a thing that stuck with me, and apropos of the recent discussion about re-reading books (something I don’t do much of) I happened to crack open a book and find the passage (having previously failed to find it several times, searching in the wrong volumes on my bookshelves).  It is from Thomas Cahill’s How the Irish Saved Civilization*:

So the living civilization died, to be reassembled and assessed by scholars of later ages from the texts preserved miraculously in the pages of its books.  There is, however, one classical tradition that survived the transition — the still-living tradition of Roman law.

We have encountered Roman law already — as a dead letter, promulgated by the emperor and circumvented, first by the powerful, then increasingly by anyone who could get away with it.  As the emperor’s laws became weaker, the ceremony surrounding them became more baroque.  In the last days, the Divine One’s edict is written in gold on purple paper, received with covered hands in the fashion of a priest handling sacred vessels, held aloft for adoration by the assembled throng, who prostrate themselves before the law — and then ignore it.

The book was published in 1995 and this struck a chord in me, and I’ve remembered not the precise quote, but the gist for nearly 30 years.  In all of that time of course it only has become more haunting in that it is a putative description of ancient history and couldn’t possibly be an accurate description of our own day and age.  In fact, his whole treatment on the fall of Rome (alluding to both Augustine’s and Gibbons’ views), which is merely prelude to his main thesis, is worth the read (as I had pulled this from the shelf not actively searching for the above quote this time and only stumbling upon it on page 60 and muttering to myself: well, there you are).

The law as dead letter, elevated in vainglory, empty of living impact is our own zeitgeist.  It has no practical value because no one takes it seriously.  It can’t be taken seriously by any serious person, so the spectacle becomes ever more important.  The benefit you can give to the Romans is they didn’t have their own example to learn from.  We have less excuse than they did.  Though I don’t think the Romans were so boneheaded as to believe that making an act “extra illegal” would have any beneficial effect as we seem to think in this day and age.

One part we haven’t properly emulated the Romans in, yet, is tax collection.  Let us all be thankful for that, for the lot of the Roman tax collector late in the Empire made slavery attractive.  In the early days the tax collector was a sort of entry level position in the civil rank system, and it wasn’t difficult to ascend to a less onerous position.  On the cusp of the fall, tax collector was a caste you were born into and promotion out was anything but simple.  Worse, the nobility (and all of their wealth) was exempt and any shortfall in collection was a personal debt laid upon the collector.  In cases where someone escaped the office, they could be recalled from whatever position they had and stuck with the shit job once again.  Even slaves weren’t treated that badly.

Where last I left off (in my previous article) I asked – What do we do?  The answer may be we do what many Romans did as their society decayed around them, the perceptive having made and executed plans, and the laggards left to fend for themselves (something that didn’t generally go well).  The strange thing to consider is that anytime in the last 100 years, possibly more, of the Imperium, judgement day could’ve arrived.  It might not even have arrived when it did, instead coming another 100 years later.

I did say the meanderings would be muddled.

 

* – This turned out to the be the first book in a series (The Hinges of History) by Cahill.  His fascination was with the transitions between historical eras rather than the bounded eras themselves.  The transition in question here from late Roman civilization into Medieval Christian Europe and how the isolation of the Irish (pre Viking and English depredations) kept them from the turmoil of that transition and allowed some degree of classical knowledge to monastically survive which would help shape the following era.  Having re-sparked my interest, I may have to acquire and read his succeeding volumes.

About The Author

juris imprudent

juris imprudent

“He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." --Winston Churchill

135 Comments

  1. Penguin

    On the cusp of the fall, tax collector was a caste you were born into and promotion out was anything but simple.

    Well, we’ve certainly solved that problem. They go right up the ranks nowadays.

  2. DEG

    Worse, the nobility (and all of their wealth) was exempt and any shortfall in collection was a personal debt laid upon the collector. In cases where someone escaped the office, they could be recalled from whatever position they had and stuck with the shit job once again.

    On the other hand, they are tax collectors.

    • creech

      So no need to hire or pay 87,000 new agents. Just tell the current agents that all their kids are now conscripted.

    • ron73440

      In the early days of the Emipre, when it was still a republic, the tax collectors were like independent contractors.

      They would bid against each other for the “right” to collect taxes.

      Highest bid won and they had to pay that amount.

      Everything they collected above that amount was their profit.

  3. The Late P Brooks

    Lawmaking has become a baroque self-parody because “legislators” are duty bound to legislate. It’s their job, the Law of Diminishing Returns be damned.

    We need to revise the job description, and send people to Washington to prune the tangled thickets of laws and regulations. Don’t ask me to tell you how that is supposed to happen. I’m just a broad concepts guy.

    • Fourscore

      Something I don’t understand. Why do we need new legislation constantly? Was last year’s rules no good? Why do laws always need reforming? Why not make them right the first time?

      The 10 Commandments have stood the test of time until… elected officials decide that they don’t mean what they say. Has stealing changed?
      Well, no, but under $950 it’s really not stealing…

      Bipartisan, compromise, reach across the aisle are an admission of screwing up. Unintended consequences, etc.

      As a kid we played Monopoly but sometimes changed the rules. House rules prevailed over Monopoly’s printed laws. Everyone playing agreed before the game started or else they didn’t play. Legislation is different, lawyers have to eat, too.

      • Tundra

        Excellent question. The obvious answer is to have sunset provisions for every law, but we all know that will never happen.

        Do you think economic collapse or the degradation of the law will be the trigger that collapses us?

      • R C Dean

        Sunset provisions would only beget omnibus reauthorization bills.

      • UnCivilServant

        That’s why I say that any legislation must be read aloud in its entirety including any impacted laws or regulations in their entirety as they will appear after the law prior to any vote being made upon them.

        Thus a law that repeals a law or regulation is a quick read, but an omnibus renewal would require reading every law to be renewed and any regulations promulgated in accordance to those laws.

    • R C Dean

      That won’t happen under our current system. Full. Stop.

      Reform is no longer an option, I’m afraid. Under the best circumstances, true reform is walking a political razor’s edge between those who don’t you’re going far enough, and those protecting their rice bowls. I think we’re past the point where there is any realistic path to true reform.

  4. juris imprudent

    Thanks Tonio (I assume) for the main page illo.

      • kinnath

        Swiss digs up the best pictures.

      • juris imprudent

        Ah, he just peruses the Swiss Guard archive.

  5. Tundra

    The law as dead letter, elevated in vainglory, empty of living impact is our own zeitgeist. It has no practical value because no one takes it seriously. It can’t be taken seriously by any serious person, so the spectacle becomes ever more important.

    I wonder if the Romans gave the laws cool sounding names to lull the populace into supporting them. The “Puppies are Super Nice Act of 150 AD” or something.

    Thanks, JI. I enjoy these meanderings!

    • creech

      No, the laws were probably all “for the children.”

    • ron73440

      I don’t know about the names, but they had all kinds of land bills and a corn subsidy.

  6. The Late P Brooks

    We could start, I suppose, by horsewhipping anybody who complains about a “do-nothing Congress”. The best thing that could happen is a large scale return to Congressional sex tourism fact finding junkets.

    • Toxteth O'Grady

      Vous écrivez si parfaitement. 😊 🥐

      • Sensei

        I can cut and paste with the best of them! Although I did take two years of HS French.

    • R C Dean

      Hey, he also had to pay a few hundred bucks in restitution as well as his one (1) year suspended sentence.

      Why do I suspect that the penalty for having an unregistered gun, that you haven’t shot anybody with, is higher?

  7. ron73440

    In the last days, the Divine One’s edict is written in gold on purple paper, received with covered hands in the fashion of a priest handling sacred vessels, held aloft for adoration by the assembled throng, who prostrate themselves before the law — and then ignore it.

    Similar to how “our democracy” has become a religion.

    I’ve never read Cavill, but he sounds interesting.

    *grumbles about reading list that keeps growing*

    • juris imprudent

      *grumbles about reading list that keeps growing*

      The fable of Sisyphus seems appropriate.

      • mindyourbusiness

        Got a T-shirt in my collection which reads, “So many books…so little time”
        I sympathize.

      • UnCivilServant

        So many cookbooks, so little thyme.

  8. The Late P Brooks

    So no need to hire or pay 87,000 new agents. Just tell the current agents that all their kids are now conscripted.

    Just fire them all . Every quarter, the IRS can send out an auto-generated GoFundMe appeal for voluntary fair share contributions. I’m sure they’ll get all they need (and then some), especially from people like Bill Gates and Kindly Old Grandpa Buffet. And that Disney granddaughter. Those people have more dough than they know how to spend.

    Actually, Janet Yellin should be doing that right now, instead of running around trying to spook the markets into a massive crash.

    • JaimeRoberto (carnitas/spicy salsa)

      I’d be happy with old school decimation just for the sport of it.

      • UnCivilServant

        Naw, iterative decimation until there is only one left, who is blinded.

  9. The Late P Brooks

    I wonder how hard it would be to set up a “Save the Treasury” GoFundMe. You obviously need to hold some of it back, for administrative and operating expenses. I’d go with something proven reasonable and legitimate, like the Clinton Foundation model.

    • Nephilium

      You can just link them to this.

  10. R C Dean

    We are still a juncture where making alternative plans (so long as they don’t involve insurrection or crime) can be done without having to disconnect from mainstream society. So we’ve got that going for us.

    I think the alternatives that need to be developed and engaged in most are those that involve having a network of some kind that you can use to provide or acquire goods and services, and, critically, generally have social relationships, outside the corpo-fascist state. It’s hard to engage in Irish Democracy when you’re the only Irish person you know, I guess.

  11. invisible finger

    I think you are taking “tax collector” in too modern of a meaning. The more precise term would be “law enforcement”.

    From “A Man For All Seasons” :

    “William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

    Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

    William Roper: “Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!”

    Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake!”

  12. The Late P Brooks

    That won’t happen under our current system. Full. Stop.

    Reform is no longer an option, I’m afraid. Under the best circumstances, true reform is walking a political razor’s edge between those who don’t you’re going far enough, and those protecting their rice bowls. I think we’re past the point where there is any realistic path to true reform.

    All too true. The screeching of the shit flinging howler monkeys over the impending EPA and Administrative State rulings from the Supreme Court are conclusive proof.

  13. The Late P Brooks

    You can just link them to this.

    I don’t get a cut.

    • Toxteth O'Grady

      I read a few (a dozen?) about a European immigrant couple who did just that in their wills. 🤦‍♀️

      • Toxteth O'Grady

        *few years ago, évidemment

  14. Tundra

    Do you think the average Roman had any inkling of what was coming? Watching things spin apart is kind of surreal.

    And then there is this evil shit.

    I can’t believe how angry this makes me.

    • Tundra
      • Ownbestenemy

        I wanted to at least visit NYC one more time…but now, nah. I think Mogadishu is safer

      • juris imprudent

        I hope, slim as that thread is, that the conviction and sentence lead to the SC finally finding the law to be un-constitutional.

    • Fourscore

      But he won’t acknowledge his own grand daughter. I’m glad the Biden family don’t live in, on or near Podunkville.

  15. Sensei

    OT – follow up from my post in the AM. RE – Japan shooting – must have been a real rifle. Three dead not sure if that includes the person stabbed.

  16. Rebel Scum

    I, for one, welcome our trans AI overlords.

    Cameron started that he started writing a new Terminator movie three months ago, but wants to see how A.I. develops before he goes any further with it.

    If you remember, Cameron had mentioned last December that he was in “discussions” to direct the next ‘Terminator’ movie.

    If I were to do another ‘Terminator’ film and maybe try and to launch that franchise again, which is in discussion, but nothing has been decided, I would make it much more about the AI side of it than bad robots gone crazy.

    • Gender Traitor

      He should have ChatGPT write the screenplay.

    • ron73440

      As far as I remember, there were only 2 Terminator movies.

      The first one was the best one.

      • Sensei

        That’s my memory as well.

      • Fatty Bolger

        There’s like, a million of them. Approximately.

        One and two are both great.

      • Ownbestenemy

        No, no I think you are mistaken. There are only two.

      • ron73440

        No, there were only 2.

        Also, only 3 Indiana Jones movies.

        Only 3 Star Wars.

      • Fatty Bolger

        4 Star Wars, you forgot Rogue One.

      • Not Adahn

        That was the prequel to Andor, right?

      • Fatty Bolger

        Sequel, actually.

    • The Other Kevin

      Everyone is sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for the next Avatar so why not reboot yet another franchise?

      • Not Adahn

        Speaking of sequels/remakes, I heard they remade White Men Can’t Jump.

      • UnCivilServant

        Is the remake about a transracial activist who fights stereotypes in athletics?

      • Dr. Fronkensteen

        White women can’t jump?

      • Sean

        Starring Dylan Mulvaney?

      • R C Dean

        Pish. Still “White Men Can’t Jump”, but it’s about a POC chick who identifies as a white man, and leads xir team to the championship.

      • Nephilium

        Brittney Grier plays the white man.

      • Bobarian LMD

        A remake of Juwanna Mann?

  17. Rebel Scum

    Justice.

    A federal judge sentenced Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes to 18 years in prison Thursday and accepted the government’s recommendation of an enhancement for terrorism for his role leading a seditious conspiracy to disrupt the certification of President Joe Biden’s election victory that culminated in the violent assault on the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

    Rhodes’ sentence is now the longest to date handed down to a defendant charged in connection with the Capitol assault.

    For the first time in a Jan. 6 case, D.C. District Judge Amit Mehta accepted the government’s recommendation to apply an enhancement for terrorism in Rhodes’ sentencing. Mehta agreed with prosecutors that Rhodes “inspired the use of violence” in his followers to disrupt the certification and that his conduct met the legal definition of terrorism intended to influence the actions of government.

    Mehta cited the stockpile of weapons the Oath Keepers had amassed just outside of Washington, D.C. on Jan. 6, as well as Rhodes’ orders for members to delete incriminating messages after the Capitol assault.

    Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. Off to Gitmo, traitor. ///sarc

    • R.J.

      Weapons amassed. What, did he have a few guns and 1,000 rounds of ammo? Everyone has that. Fuck you. I don’t even have to read the shitty news article to know the truth.

    • Rebel Scum

      “You, sir, present an ongoing threat and peril to this country,” Mehta told Rhodes just before handing down his sentence. …

      In his own remarks just before handing down his sentence, Mehta pushed back directly on Rhodes’ claims of being a political prisoner, saying instead he poses an “ongoing threat to this country.”

      He questioned the legitimacy of the election and institution thereby inciting a violent insurrection. He is clearly too dangerous to be kept alive.

    • R C Dean

      And we’ve gone from not having to incriminate ourselves, to having a legal duty to preserve incriminating evidence.

  18. The Late P Brooks

    Mehta cited the stockpile of weapons the Oath Keepers had amassed just outside of Washington, D.C. on Jan. 6, as well as Rhodes’ orders for members to delete incriminating messages after the Capitol assault.

    The fact that they had weapons which they did not use or even bring proves their violent intent!

    • Rebel Scum

      And I wouldn’t be surprised if “stockpile” meant that they all brought their carry pistols with extra ammo.

      just outside of Washington

      Literally close enough for a quick terrorism!

      • R C Dean

        So complying with DC gun laws is proof of intent to commit insurrection?

        Got it. Lesson learned. In for a penny, in for a pound. Next time, people will bring their guns, and use them.

    • Fatty Bolger

      Was there really a stockpile? Or did they just leave their weapons at somebody’s house so they wouldn’t get in trouble for bringing them to the protest?

      • juris imprudent

        The Confidential Informant says there was – what do you expect, an inventory? [I would acquit on this as a juror]

    • R.J.

      My assumption is it was all their everyday carry, sitting in a hotel room or a safe house because NOBODY WAS TO BE ARMED TO AVOID A SITUATION. But, what do I know over a federal prosecutor.

  19. Tundra

    Unreal.

    What is ‘Disease X’?

    At least we know now what their Hail Mary is gonna look like.

    • Sensei

      It’s like you never saw the movie “Resident Evil”.

    • Gender Traitor

      To prevent and combat an outbreak of Disease X, medical experts worldwide are clamoring for an increase in funds to support the surveillance of, and research into, potential pandemic agents.

      “And then there could be Disease Y. We really need to start preparing for Disease Y, too.”

      • R C Dean

        I read that as “We’ll need more gain-of-function funding if we’re going to produce the next pandemic on schedule”.

    • Rebel Scum

      “X” is usually given to experimental things. So I take it to be the next lab created virus they release.

      At least we know now what their Hail Mary is gonna look like.

      They always have the need to tell you exactly what they are about to do.

      • R C Dean

        Supervillains gonna monologue, I guess.

    • Rebel Scum

      “This isn’t the stuff of science fiction,” Dr. Richard Hatchett, of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, told the Telegraph. “This is a scenario we have to prepare for. This is Disease X.”

      Like when you cuntes wargamed a novel coronavirus just before one appeared…

      • R.J.

        How about we call it Disease )*(? That way it looks like a puckered butthole.

      • R.J.

        Depends on how fat the butt is!

      • juris imprudent

        They’ll unleash this one at Burning Man )'( and let the hippies spread it.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Insn’t that the logo for Christ’s Church Revival?

    • Nephilium

      Isn’t that how we create the Powerpuff Girls?

    • Dr. Fronkensteen

      Disease X is a slacker. It’s Disease Millennial that will cause all of the problems.

    • The Other Kevin

      Just hang on, the boys at Wuhan are putting the finishing touches on it right now.

  20. The Late P Brooks

    The term Disease X is used by the WHO as a placeholder to describe a disease that’s unknown to medical science as a cause of human infections.

    Their ultimate tied-naked-and-squirming-to-the-railroad-tracks spank bank fantasy.

    • Fourscore

      I’m reserving “Death X” as a placeholder to describe a cause of death that’s unknown to medical science. Save the coroner a lot of sciency stuff looking.

    • R.J.

      It would be a great band name. And the first track of the first album could be “tied-naked-and-squirming-to-the-railroad-tracks.”

  21. Raven Nation

    Re: “you can just link them to this”

    I hold a few shares in Berkshire Hathaway. One of my day-dreams has been to fill out a form like that with Buffet’s name on and go to the annual shareholders’ meeting. They do an open Q&A. I want to get up with the form and say, “Mr. Buffet, you’ve often said you don’t pay enough taxes. Here is a form for giving money to the US government. I’ve filled in your name, business address, and e-mail. All you need to do is sign and write out a check. I’ll even pay for registered mail.”

    • Sensei

      BRK.A – I’m sure as you are a Glib.

      I remember when there was no other class. My trade desk hate to touch it as if you fat fingered the trade you could quickly lose money as you tried to get out of it.

      • Raven Nation

        Hah! BRK-B.

      • Sensei

        That came into existence because Buffet was unhappy that “regular folk” were buying mutual funds that did nothing but invest in BRK. As they were funds they had loads and operating expenses that direct shareholders didn’t incur.

    • Fatty Bolger

      He’ll just have you arrested.

  22. Raven Nation

    “The law as dead letter, elevated in vainglory, empty of living impact is our own zeitgeist. It has no practical value because no one takes it seriously. + “Why do we need new legislation constantly?” kind of go together. Whenever there’s a significant bad event (mass shooting, bank failure, ponzi scheme) there is ALWAYS a number of laws that have been violated. No legislator ever seems to hold a press conference and say, “the laws weren’t enforced. We’re going to find out who didn’t enforce them and prosecute them and/or fire them.”

  23. The Late P Brooks

    I want to get up with the form and say, “Mr. Buffet, you’ve often said you don’t pay enough taxes. Here is a form for giving money to the US government. I’ve filled in your name, business address, and e-mail. All you need to do is sign and write out a check. I’ll even pay for registered mail.”

    That might, as the kids say, “blow up” on twatter.

    • The Other Kevin

      Especially the part where the police arrest him like they did to the last person who tried to get mouthy at one of those meetings.

  24. Drake

    Reading through mortgage escrow complaints at work this week, I realized that banks have assumed the rule of property tax collectors and enforcers. Some of the tax increases pushed on towns and counties are enormous. And some of the complaints are heart-breaking. People crying on the phone because they can’t afford their mortgage payments any longer.

    • Sensei

      Cheer them up and explain at least it’ not NJ levels of taxation.

      • Drake

        These are nation-wide. I have to cross -reference to identify the guilty town, but generally as blue as you’d expect.

    • DEG

      In NH, municipal and county property taxes are calculated based on spending levels and property valuations. You want lower property taxes? Attack spending. Hence why some municipalities have spending caps limiting how much spending can increase year over year.

      The usual suspects hate the spending caps and constantly look for ways around them.

    • Fatty Bolger

      I don’t have a mortgage, but they still make me pay the taxes.

      • Drake

        Sure – but you’re the exception. And you know who the blame.if they double.

  25. Drake

    The leaders of our collapsing empire have a big advantage over their Roman predecessors. They can print and borrow.on a huge scale instead of debasing. Print $200 billion, send it to the Ukraine, Aghanistan, wherever – launder it there and deposit in bank accounts.

    Meanwhile the peasants can’t understand why eggs and gas are suddenly so expensive.

    • Fatty Bolger

      Ancient Rome was so stupid, they could have solved all of their problems with a trillion denarius coin.

  26. Pat

    Where last I left off (in my previous article) I asked – What do we do? The answer may be we do what many Romans did as their society decayed around them

    Funny enough, that would actually please some people. In Return to Order, John Horvat advocates for Christian neo-feudalism as a natural and beneficial solution to the collapse of the American empire, painting a very rosy picture of what a fantastic decentralized system it was after the collapse of the Roman empire. Once I realized he was serious, I kind of admired that level of nuttery.

  27. The Late P Brooks

    Meanwhile the peasants can’t understand why eggs and gas are suddenly so expensive.

    Milk jumped ~+20% in the past week or so.

    • Fatty Bolger

      The cause is obvious, corporate greed, duh!

    • R.J.

      Sadly this link is flaccid.

      • Sean

        They’re not bringing their A game.

      • Sensei

        Assuming that’s true that’s a legit LoL.

      • Drake

        I hope.some other Feds bid on it.

      • juris imprudent

        Like the armed DEA agent on Jan 6th?

      • DEG

        Heh.

      • Scruffyy Nerfherder

        The fruits of eliminating meritocracy.

    • R C Dean

      Totally non-functional? That would make my day.

    • Ted S.

      Cool link, bro!

  28. The Late P Brooks

    Lesson learned. In for a penny, in for a pound. Next time, people will bring their guns, and use them.

    If there’s no meaningful difference in the penalty, why wouldn’t you just kill all the witnesses?

    • Sean

      You’re Italian?

  29. juris imprudent

    In six minutes I will shut down my work computer, and tomorrow morning I will drop it and my govt ID off.

    • kinnath

      Congrats.

    • Sensei

      Congrats!

    • Tundra

      Woot!

      Happy for you, brother!

    • Sean

      <==

      • R C Dean

        *points to Sean’s avatar*