The start of a sporadic series.
In contrast to my take-down of Rousseau, Nietzsche is an entirely different beast; you could almost call him the diametric opposite both in intellect and temperament (and life lived as well). I might as well throw in legacy to that mix, as Rousseau would be the wellspring for nearly every revolutionary that came after him; Nietzsche has been associated with a wide variety of viewpoints – due to extensive cherry-picking (and this, worst of all in the material – notes and unfinished drafts – that he meant to never be published) by the thinkers in those disparate views. We of course immediately think of the unfortunate association with the Nazis due in large part to Nietzsche’s sister (who promoted the photo op of Hitler with the bust of Nietzsche). Despite the fact that he lived the last couple of years under her care (as he was an invalid), they had had a rancorous relationship and she represented, with her antisemitism and German nationalism, two things that Nietzsche detested (to which he gave ample expression in his writings). Trotskyites also found some use for some parts of Nietzsche’s writings, and others tend to misinterpret Nietzsche as a nihilist when nihilism (which he regarded as an inevitable end from Schopenhauer) was his worst fear. It was this last that he argued was the hallmark of a dying culture and the impetus for his demand for the transvaluation of all values (which would re-anchor western thought and culture on new ground). I find you can read him as an advocate for individual man (e.g. Zarathustra) even though you can’t ignore that he often speaks of the collective (though not the masses), so that interpretation has to be taken with at least a grain of salt. It may even be really the most contentious point about his philosophy, for strong arguments do support the latter.
Now, the next thing to be said is reading Nietzsche is hard work for he has a style unlike anyone. He has a penchant for aphorisms, often drenched in irony or outright oxymoron, that can end up reading as a series of Zen koans. It dawned on me as I was reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra that I was really reading poetry not prose, let alone persuasive rhetoric, and what other western philosopher wrote like that? I will dare say, you need to be mature to get at his meaning – though that comes at the price of having to unlearn things you believe you have learned. I suspect that when someone reads him in their formative years, they will be too inclined to grasp at answers (that should elude them, or frankly are simply where Nietzsche misfires) and end up radicalizing as those of that age are wont to do with Marx or Rand, or any other offering a beautiful theory. In contrast to Rousseau, Nietzsche does understand man as a social being from the beginning. Good ol’ Friedrich was also extremely well read, from the classics up through his contemporaries. His writing is sprinkled with commentary on other thinkers – usually with studied impudence (and not infrequently, scorching disdain).
Nietzsche was born a Prussian (in a town in what is now Saxony-Anholt) but would renounce his citizenship around the age of 24, and be stateless for the remainder of his life. This was at the same time he was appointed a professor of classical philology at the University of Basel. Curiously, this all immediately preceded German unification under Bismarck. Nietzsche had previously volunteered for the Royal Prussian Army, in an artillery division, but that service was cut short by an injury on horseback. Despite renouncing his citizenship, he served (again cut short by health issues) in the Franco-Prussian war. Nietzsche would remain deeply skeptical (if not outright cynical) about both the German state and culture. Deterioration of his health led him to resign his professorship (and he was pensioned) and in the ensuing 10 years he would have a productive crescendo that ended with his total mental and physical collapse. He would also fall into a deep love (infatuation perhaps) with a woman that went unrequited, and you can’t help but wonder to what degree that colored his writings, particularly in the latter part of his productive years. He tends to write unfavorably toward women, drifting toward full on misogyny. There will be things you have to disagree with him about, and this is certainly one. Some of his late work was only published posthumously (Ecce Homo written at the height of his production – 1888 did not see the light of day until 1908, eight years after his death), and of course the incomplete materials he wanted burned upon his death. It is safe to say, despite his generally positive outlook (a rather overlooked aspect of his writing) he did not live a happy (or obviously, long) life. He even speaks at times to the dangers of what he is thinking and proposing, and in that regard he shares with Rousseau the perspective (and existence) of the outcast.
What I intend to follow this with will be treatments on his main ideas, and perhaps some forays into his errors, particularly where those have misled people. Some of these will be difficult or unpleasant, most obviously with his problems with Judeo-Christian morality as it underpins the modern West (both in his time and ours). I’m certainly open to inputs or questions that you might like explored, so in that sense this will be a collaborative effort. I will refrain from any discussion from his notes and unfinished manuscripts, which of course means nothing from The Will to Power. Even in what is purely his writing, there are elements that I would consider errors. Those are prolific and serious enough without going after things he may not have actually written or what he considered as incomplete. Sometimes there are conflicts between what he says in one work and what he says in another, and teasing out what is the better reading is tough enough. So far as I can tell, he doesn’t directly discard things he later contradicts and he very often introduces nuance or expansion on what might have been a passing thought from years before. If I am correct about this, you can see how that adds to the likelihood of misinterpretation, particularly based on selective reading.
“In contrast to my take-down of Rousseau”
I must have missed that.
J.I. from the top rope!
Next comes the Full Nelson.
I shall be helpful here in Juris’ absence.
https://www.glibertarians.com/2023/04/reviewing-rousseau/
Yeah, last I looked this was scheduled for Monday evening.
Surprise!
Philosophy on 4/20? Duuuuuude.
Take that up with the scheduling god(s).
It was savage.
What you did there was perceived in an ocular capacity. It wasn’t very noble of you.
“what other western philosopher wrote like that?”
Schopenhauer? I can’t read German.
Sir Terry is the only philosopher that I have read.
I wouldn’t call him a philosopher, but I don’t disagree with him often.
/looks at Men at Arms for a prime example of disagreement.
“ I will dare say, you need to be mature to get at his meaning”
Damn. Rules me out.
reading Nietzsche is hard work
*closes book*
How could anyone with a stache like that think that God is dead?
More like he felt that secularism killed God and didn’t provide any sufficient substitute. He felt this was a bad thing, but as JI pointed out he had issues with Christian morality itself. I’m looking forward to more of this.
Well said, it was the Enlightenment that killed God.
We are drowning in material wealth and starving for meaning.
He would also fall into a deep love (infatuation perhaps) with a woman that went unrequited, and you can’t help but wonder to what degree that colored his writings, particularly in the latter part of his productive years. He tends to write unfavorably toward women, drifting toward full on misogyny.
So Nietzsche was the original incel?
When I was a 20something still struggling to get through school, I overheard younger students than I solemnly discussing knee-cheese writing. I had no idea what that was. I couldn’t be bothered to ask because I was trying to just get through each day. Since, I had no reason to really care. No one to sit and discuss him with comes along post-college.
So my only real exposure to Nietzsche’s work has been through listening to Jordan Peterson, which has piqued my interest. I’m now in a place to learn about knee-cheese. Thanks, JI!
Happy to oblige.
Disappoint
Utah Associated Municipal Power Systems (UAMPS) and NuScale Power Corp. (NuScale) have mutually agreed to terminate the Carbon Free Power Project (CFPP), a small modular reactor (SMR) project that was planned for construction on Idaho National Laboratory (INL) property near Idaho Falls, Idaho.
“Despite significant efforts by both parties to advance the CFPP, it appears unlikely that the project will have enough subscription to continue toward deployment. Therefore, UAMPS and NuScale have mutually determined that ending the project is the most prudent decision for both parties,” the developers said in an announcement issued on Nov. 8.
——-
Concerning the CFPP, however, costs for the first-of-a-kind project were a mounting concern. Still, NuScale’s Hopkins said during the company’s quarterly earnings call on Nov. 8 that capital cost projections had not increased “between the Class 3 and current Class 2 estimates” when adjusted for inflation. “I want to emphasize that point, because not only have overall capital costs remain stable, the cost of NuScale’s SMR technology, which is just one component of the CFPP, have remained steady as well,” he said.
Instead, Hopkins pointed to subscriptions as the main factor in the termination decision. “CFPP targeted 80% subscription for the project by year end,” he noted. “Despite significant efforts by both parties to advance the CFPP, it appeared unlikely that the project would have enough subscription to support deployment. Therefore, UAMPS and NuScale mutually determined that ending the project was the most prudent decision for both parties.”
“This decision is very disappointing given the years of pioneering hard work put into the CFPP by UAMPS, CFPP LLC, NuScale, U.S. Department of Energy, and the UAMPS member communities that took the leadership role to launch the CFPP,” said UAMPS CEO and General Manager Mason Baker.
Lack of subscribers makes it sound like it was too expensive. Or too many uncertainties.
I would guess cost.
I have always dreamt of single family type reactors. One reactor per customer installed and running on site. I want my own reactor to run my house, barn, sheds etc. I would be willing to make a one-time largish investment for a lifetime of power, autonomy from any supplier. Who wouldn’t?
I know….more of that scary freedom. Individual autonomy is some scary shiit for the psychotics that live to control others so probably never happen.
+1 Mr. Fusion
*strokes chin whiskers thoughtfully*
Yes.
Nietzsche seems like a guy today who would be an uber progressive with a fetish at night for getting pegged.
The guy who wrote this?
“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”
Well, perhaps the pegging:
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
You can view these men as products of their time or as wholly original. I choose the former in most cases and I take the personality of the man and try to put it into today’s world.
So you have to look at what they were bucking against and what often suited their interest.
I don’t see how you think the guy who wrote this would likely be an uber prog if he’d been born recently. If that insight ain’t enough to keep a later iteration of yourself from embracing the opposite, why isn’t everyone an uber prog?
“Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.”
What kind of state was he rebelling against?
What did his ideas lay the groundwork for?
Most progressives view themselves as champions of the individual, as well. You are taking a few quotes and reading into them what you want without taking them in the larger context of how he viewed things like natural rights.
He is one of the masters of suspicion along with Marx and Freudand his writings have caused tremendous harm over the last century .
What have you read from versus about him?
REDLINING
Experts agree that establishing a robust infrastructure of public charging stations is key to mass adoption of EVs. But the creation of that infrastructure lags. Stations are scarce, particularly in low-income and minority communities. Where they do exist, they are often unreliable.
Yes, yes, of course. It’s not that black people in the ghetto are unwilling to pay three times their annual income for a hopped up golf cart, it’s just that there aren’t enough places to charge them.
Low income people are just itching to prepay for fuel for their car, which what you are doing with EVs.
In some of those communities, the charging stations wouldn’t last a week until the vandals took them out. Imagine the fun somebody could have wrecking a 240 volt, high amperage box on their street. Possibly incinerate a vandal now and then.
Imagine all that copper wire. Or the opportunity to rob or carjack someone who is refueling for 40 minutes and not 3.
All that.
That’s why all “those people” will be forced into public transit.
Eh, you might get your windows busted and have everything stolen out of it, but carjackers are not into EVs either.
It’ll be the Democratic version of Chinese ghost cities.
The link driving 4 answers provided in the dead thread was awesome. I think it’s one of the most complete take-downs of EVs that I have seen. Even then he does not get into the environmental impacts of mining and manufacturing of batteries and intermittent power sources.
Federal trial begins for man accused of attacking Paul Pelosi
hilarity ensue
Federal case? [sighs and rolls eyes]
The unrequited love thing…that’s a big red flag. To what degree that influenced his writing? A great deal, that is how much. That condition, especially in an invalid would virtually guarantee the birth of nihilism. His personal flaws translate into flaws in his thinking. I tend to dismiss him for that reason.
Emotional well being is crucial to clear thinking. Mojeaux mentioned Peterson. I have heard a bit of what he has to say and what I take from it is Peterson points out things and gives recommendations that elicit a “…yeah….and?” from me. It seems any sane person of average intelligence should already know this stuff.
Nietzsche suffers the same flaw as our contemporary Lakoff. Smart, lots of info, carefully constructed arguments leading to conclusions that are wildly wrong.
“It seems any sane person of average intelligence should already know this stuff.”
You might need to lower your assessment of the meanings of sane and average.
I suspect you are correct. I was just now thinking about how to do that without destroying the meanings of the words.
Jaime beat me to it.
If I had a nickel for every time I’ve heard (on YouTube) dudes going, “JBP changed my life” I’d have $2.35. But still, that’s a lot when you consider, these people had no frame of reference, no guidance, no inkling that they could do/be better and if they did, no idea how to do that.
People spouting sense come along all the time, but usually, they don’t have as big a platform as JBP, so any person he gets to and changes is one fewer person to be worried about being a drain on society and/or perpetuating proggy talking points.
His notion that there is no objective way to establish what is good, right and true is wrong. Much like the debate between determinism and free will the correct way to think of it lies between. Because of limitations on our ability to collect data we can only ever approach truth asymptotically, never really reaching it. However we can objectively measure how close we are to truth by putting our ideas into practical use and seeing if they work or not. How well do they work? Can we use other ideas that will upon implementation render better results?
Because we cannot travel in time and put ourselves in his shoes to observe the religious, ethical and cultural norms of his time we cannot fully understand his perspective.
I will give him that much. In his place I might have concluded the same.
God is not dead, he just doesn’t give a shit.
“His notion that there is no objective way to establish what is good, right and true is wrong.”
I’d be interested in hearing the specific quotes that you’re referring to.
Good and right are the product of value systems. And the value of something is intrinsically subjective – that’s the basis of modern economics.
As for objectively determining what is true – the scientific method is all about trying to falsify stuff we currently think is true. There’s no way to objectively say, “this theory is true for all time, and will never be supplanted by something more accurately reflecting reality.”
Of course, his being an incel violates Prolefeed’s First Law of Dating – don’t waste your time chasing someone who isn’t interested in you. If you get that, you won’t be an incel, with a bit of effort you’ll find plenty of people who want to have sex with you.
“Of course, his being an incel violates Prolefeed’s First Law of Dating – don’t waste your time chasing someone who isn’t interested in you. If you get that, you won’t be an incel, with a bit of effort you’ll find plenty of people who want to have sex with you.”
18–23-year-old Ed wishes he would have followed this rule.
Well, you have to be honest about what you bring to the table, and sometimes that realization hurts. It requires work and effort.
Yep. My Mom gave me that brutal advice after I was pissing and moaning about being single and having a hard time getting a date. I shaped up and started getting more dates which then eventually allowed me to meet my wife.
Up to 28 year old me wishes I’d had someone who told me that. I recently had a long conversation with my son pointing out this seemingly obvious idea, and how to go about finding women.
After riding about downtown Austin on the Duck Tour, in sight of thousands of people:
Prole’s son: “I don’t feel any women are interested in me.”
Me: “We literally just rode past thousands of women. Statistically, you just saw between ten and twenty women who would be great for you in a long term relationship. Including the woman you didn’t pick up on, who looked directly at you with this look of ‘I want some of that White Bread guy!’ So, go find just one of them.”
I’m not sure how constructive that lie was.
Prole is correct. At one time, I had a strong green melon, and non-saggy eyes. The womenfolk loved me. Now I only have my charm. At least one woman still loves me.
I have neither looks, charm, nor personality. And not enough money to attract by that alone.
Same. As an adult I have talked to at least three women who said they had a big crush on me in high school. I was completely oblivious back then. If I could give HS me advice, it would be to stop chasing after girls who were not interested, and instead just observe and find ones that already are interested. Because they are out there.
When both people in the relationship realize that this is the best they can do.
“What do you look for in a partner?”
“Low standards.”
Put me in that list as well.
Stupid girls that were interested in me in high school… couldn’t you tell how dumb and unaware I was?
/is well aware it was mostly my fault for being oblivious
That is some great advice that I never took myself. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
If you think he was a nihilist you aren’t paying attention.
I came away from the little bit of Nietzsche I’ve read with the same impression, and I’ve sometimes wondered if maybe I was the one who misunderstood. I always took Nietzsche’s stance as “Well, it’s a good job you upended the moral underpinning of western society going all the way back to the Greeks, but have you given any thought to what comes after that?” Alasdair MacIntyre’s treatment of Nietzchean ethics in After Virtue is interesting, if you haven’t read that.
I kinda like Nietzsche:
“Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.”
“That which does not kill me, makes me stronger.”
I much prefer the consistent take downs of government and socialists by Bastiat.
*Places a gold star next to Neph’s name*
Sad trombone…
Jezebel shuts down, lays off staff in ‘excruciating’ decision, parent company says
Oh no! That only leaves about 126 other terrible sites for us to avoid visiting!
Couldn’t have happened to a shittier group of people.
I laughed and then pondered….how the fuck did they last this long?
I wonder how these weirdo ultra proggie organizations form. It is obvious they are all nuttier than squirrel turds, how can they organize?
*suddenly remembers the college commie club meeting to establish a charter that was derailed by endless points of order. Addressing them for what seemed like an eternity guaranteed that they accomplished NOTHING. No work whatsoever was produced*
Oh, yeah. There is that.
Jim Spanfeller, chief executive of G/O Media, said in a memo to staff obtained by CNN that the company had tried to sell the publication, but that after talks with two dozen potential buyers, “we could not find Jez a new home.”
*outright prolonged laughter*
Incentives. How do they work? Misleading headline:
Microsoft instructed all workers to set diversity goals in performance reviews. Employees taking optional DEI courses increased by 270%
Halfway through the article:
Got it, I can tick the fucking box I’m required to tick and get back to my job if I take some online training. Will do.
I really dont understand what any of that means. It is fucking gibberish.
“facilitating critical conversations”
“My goal for this year is to periodically point out that these DEI initiatives are bullshit and keep people from doing productive work. That will facilitate conversations from HR criticizing that statement, from people incapable of using my feedback to understand and improve.”
Yeah I bet my definition of “critical” would be different from theirs.
Thankfully, this has not happened at megacorp yet.
Yet. Same at my place, who knows what next year brings.
I only get tortured once a year with DEI trainings. Last year’s was a Zoom where several times we were reorganized into smaller groups for bullshit discussions about our lived experiences. I just pretended that my microphone wasn’t working.
I work at British owned company in the Cleveland area and while they talk about DEI, they don’t really harp on it. I suspect they know that people here aren’t as into that shit as other big cities in the US.
I work in NYC. My workplace has UN levels of “diversity”.
I’ve worked at small game and software development companies for the past 25 years.
Never had a developer who isn’t white/asian and male.
Had some artists who are “diverse” however.
You are a green pickle, that counts as diversity.
Hey Microsoft, I got your allyship right here!
*grabs crotch*
Wow, a Yahoo comment that is not terrible:
Commenter must be a duPonter.
Glad to be retired. I do remember causing a stir back when the whole diversity crap started. It was a Chamber luncheon and the speaker was some HR bint. During Q&A I stood up and said “we employers don’t want diversity. We want people who show up, do their job, and are pleasant to be around. Don’t care if they are black,brown, white or green, from Mars or Venus. ” Got enough applause to make stocking one’s neck out worthwhile.
One of the toughest things of being an NCO in the military is training new lieutenants.
I’m looking forward to reading more JI. I only read the Nietzsche Family Circus meme generator.
https://www.nietzschefamilycircus.com/
http://www.nietzschefamilycircus.com/perm.php?c=81&q=140
facilitating critical conversations
“It’s a white thing. You wouldn’t understand.”
Not that kind of critical?
https://news.yahoo.com/democratic-senator-manchin-says-not-194008491.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAsPfgcrCgGztgTXVGYmLAAZYD-4Rv5dX0gj7JzmAJejwlnrH_zfC_gKhomm3wUGcpEOsn7XkHL14LrtYgMKkX0ArUJCm04rzX66ddl0A8QqwwkEjKtOxkO0GaWyEgcWSySGy6QKl0gol0GT42zFryJxnennT0bAvWowGa_MvmVv
“I have made one of the toughest decisions of my life and decided that I will not be running for re-election to the United States Senate, but what I will be doing is traveling the country and speaking out to see if there is an interest in creating a movement to mobilize the middle and bring Americans together,” Manchin said in a statement.”
He knows he overstepped with some of the things he supported.
It was a fucking wonder he lasted that long in WV, given that he only diverged from the prog agenda on a handful of stuff.
I always wondered how he got elected in the first place.
*Fetterlump comes to mind*
Oh.
It’ll be funny when all the progs who cursed him lament him when he’s gone because that was a reliable Dem voter 90% of the time and they were too caught up in the few whacked out shit he refused to support. Almost like there was a trade-off to having a Dem represent West Virginians.
That’s progressives in a nutshell. You can agree with them on 90 percent of stuff but will destroy you if you take a different stance from any of their sacred cows. J.K. Rowling has learned this the hard way, but she survived because she has fuck you.
Her one divergent view is so mainstream
and common sense too.
See above discussion re overestimating common sense.
I love Rowling because she outright said, “I have a responsibility to speak up because I’m the only one with the money and power who can.”
Corollary…. Martina Navratilova, iconic hero of women in sports, gay rights, and trans rights…. putting everything on the line a half century before any of today’s knobs were posting their social justice from the safety of their iPhone.
“Women’s sports should not include transgender women”
Die, demon!!!
Yep, I respect her too, for that. But the platform she needs to make a difference got ripped out from under her. Rowling takes on the responsibility because she knows she’s untouchable.
Old Joke: “What do tennis and Martina have in common? ”
Punchline: “Fuzzy Balls”
I remember when some network or streaming service were doing a Harry Potter reunion special, she wasn’t invited to be part of the show. One of her detractors pointed this out on the twitters and she responded basically with that it doesn’t matter because she’s still making money off the special.
You know that had to send her detractors in a tizzy.
I’d say it was also true of the couple of Republicans who killed the Obamacare repeal but they were from
Maine and Alaska so probably not actually true.
Every prog opening their mouth about how they can now get a real proggie voice in WV shows they’ve never set foot in the state.
I can’t possibly win, so I am going out on my own terms.
I shall now suck up as many appearance fees as I can.
So the Dems lose one Senate seat in 2024. I wonder how many they pick up when some dumfuck GOP candidate for dog catcher in Cousinloving, Arkansas says girls who’ve been raped deserve to be pregnant because they didn’t keep their legs closed?
“We should have these political campaigns in the bag, so of course I’ll say some dumb shit to not get me and others in my party elected.”
I forget…who was the moronic turd that asserted that women could not be raped because they had some..something…some way of preventing or controlling their pussies?
That stache tho.
what I will be doing is traveling the country and speaking out to see if there is an interest in creating a movement to mobilize the middle and bring Americans together
Tent show revival meetings with Mitt Romney and the Third Way choir?
I was wondering what Manchin was up to, just the other day. He’s been keeping a pretty low profile since that pipeline thing blew up in his face.
Oh the phrasing.
2 examples, 1 video
A. How to handle a traffic stop.
B. How not to handle a traffic stop.
Salient moments:
“You’re a white man… You’re scaring me”
“Don’t resist… you are going to get a resisting charge”
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1722423760395948429?t=fglBeosRprF9hY_QgZQPtg&s=19
Also notable…. the casual racism on display. Nice job, progressives. You have brought racism back.
I enjoyed the “don’t call me ma’am”
The simply silly shit coming out of her mouth would make me think “Kai” was on PCP.
PCP is a hell of a drug
https://www.mobygames.com/game/10327/narc/screenshots/arcade/655114/
Martina Navratilova, iconic hero of women in sports, gay rights, and trans rights…. putting everything on the line a half century before any of today’s knobs were posting their social justice from the safety of their iPhone.
If Bud Light had announced a brand ambassador relationship with Nvratilova, nobody would have given it a second thought.
Good observation.
There was a lot of tongue-in-cheek ribbing about her back in the day but you are right, no one would have objected.
I think the BL problem is that the company let it be known that they have contempt for their customer base. They deliberately chose Dylan to rub their customer’s noses in shit.