Stoic Friday LXII

by | May 3, 2024 | Advice, LifeSkills, Musings, Stoic | 49 comments

Last Week (Part I)

Meditations

How to Be a Stoic

How to Think Like a Roman Emperor

Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic

If you have anger issues, this one is a great tool (h/t mindyourbusiness)

This week’s book:

Discourses and Selected Writings

Disclaimer: I’m not your Supervisor. These are my opinions after reading through these books a few times.

Epictetus was born a slave around 50 ad. His owner was Epaphroditus, a rich freedman who was once a slave of Nero. Though he was a slave Epictetus was sent to study philosophy under Musonius Rufus.

Epictetus was lame and there are some stories it was caused by his master and others that it was caused by disease.

He was a freedman when all philosophers were banished from Rome in 89 by the Emperor Domitian. He then started his school in Greece, and had many students. He did not leave any writings from his lessons, but one of his students, Flavius Arrian, took notes and wrote the Discourses.

Epictetus did not marry, had no children, and lived to be around 80-85. In retirement, he adopted a child that would have been abandoned and raised him with a woman.

He died sometime around AD 135.

He might be my favorite Stoic teacher. I love his bare bones and very straight forward approach.

Following is a paragraph-by-paragraph discussion of one of his lessons. Epictetus’s text appears in bold, my replies are in normal text.

Of friendship Part II

The ruling principle of the bad man is not to be trusted; it is insecure, incapable of judgement, a prey now to one external impression and now to another. Nay, do not make the same inquiry that most men do, asking whether two men are of the same parents, or were brought up together, or had the same school attendant, but this, and this only: Where do they put their interest—outside themselves, or in their moral purpose?

Being related to an unprincipled person is difficult. I am reminded of my Dad’s sister and her husband, they make my dad look moral by comparison. These were the people that mowed the grass of my moderately well off aunt and charged her an exorbitant fee. They got mad at me when I was home and did it for free. We were related, but we were not similar at all.

If outside, call them not friends, any more than you would call them faithful, steadfast, courageous, or free; nay, call them not even human beings, if you are wise. For it is no judgement of human sort which makes them bite (that is revile) one another, and take to the desert (that is, to the market-place) as wild beasts take to the mountains, and in courts of law act the part of brigands; nor is it a judgement of human sort which makes them profligates and adulterers and corrupters; nor is it any such thing which makes men guilty of any of the many other crimes which they commit against one another; it is because of one single judgement, and this alone—because they put themselves and what belongs to themselves in the category of things which lie outside the sphere of moral purpose.

In my life I have known many people with no morals. I do not consider those people to be worth my time. I have cut them out of my life and have no regrets about that. The kind of people that would screw you over so they could party or get laid are a different type and I don’t consider them to be worth my time.

But if you hear these men assert that in all sincerity they believe the good to be where moral purpose lies, and where there is the right use of external impressions, then you need no longer trouble yourself as to whether they are son and father, or brothers, or have been schoolmates a long time and are comrades; but though this is the only knowledge you have concerning them, you may confidently declare them “friends,” just as you may declare them “faithful” and “upright.” 30For where else is friendship to be found than where there is fidelity, respect, a devotion[6] to things honorable and to naught beside?

My brothers and the true friends I have had fit into this category. I also try to be this way with others. For me being this way and limiting my circle to others who are this way eliminates unnecessary stress and drama.

“But he has paid attention to me all these years; and did he not love me?” How do you know, slave, whether he has paid attention to you just as he sponges his shoes, or curries his horse? How do you know but that, when you have lost your utility, as that of some utensil, he will throw you away like a broken plate? “But she is my wife and we have lived together all these years.” But how long did Eriphyle live with Amphiaraus, yes, and bore him children, and many of them? But a necklace came in between them. And what does a necklace signify? One’s judgement about things like a necklace. That was the brutish element, that was what sundered the bond of love, what would not allow a woman to be a wife, a mother to remain a mother.

Worse then greedy and selfishness is being a fake friend. It can be difficult to determine if a person is a true friend or only pretending in order to benefit themselves.Money or even the opportunity for money can end a friendship that is not real.

So let every one of you who is eager to be a friend to somebody himself, or to get somebody else for a friend, eradicate these judgements, hate them, banish them from his own soul. 35When this is done, first of all, he will not be reviling himself, fighting with himself, repenting, tormenting himself: and, in the second place, in relation to his comrade, he will be always straightforward to one who is like him himself, while to one who is unlike he will be tolerant, gentle, kindly, forgiving, as to one who is ignorant or is making a mistake in things of the greatest importance; he will not be harsh with anybody, because he knows well the saying of Plato, that “every soul is unwillingly deprived of the truth.”[7]

If I am not a genuinely good person, I cannot be a genuine friend. Also, if I know someone is not a good person odds are against them being a good friend. I used to have friends in the Corps that I trusted and these days, most of the people I work with are good people, but I don’t think I could trust them in a real situation not to abandon me to save themselves.

But if you fail to do this, you may do everything else that friends do—drink together, and share the same tent, and sail on the same ship—and you may be sons of the same parents; yes, and so may snakes! But they will never be friends and no more will you, as long as you retain these brutish and abominable judgements.

I don’t have much contact with my dad due to his lack of character, but I still call my step dad regularly after my mom died. I know my brothers would do anything for me and I feel the same way about them. It is important to know these things and not just float through life assuming you can trust people just because you are related or have known them for awhile without really seeing their character.

Alt Text

Caption

Ignore the picture, I am trying to figure how to get alt text and title to display properly for my next truck article.

That is my Rottweiler, he died 10 years ago at 9 years old. I used to take him for walks with no leash and he would stay at my heel, only going to pee at a bush when I snapped my fingers, pointed, and said “OK”. He was a great one.

About The Author

ron73440

ron73440

What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade MOLON LABE

49 Comments

  1. Not Adahn

    Rottweilers/Dobermans/Boxers and the like are great examples of how “scary” breeds get the aggression bred out of them, while tiny yippy dogs are allowed to go on biting all the ankles they want. GSDs might be an exception to that. I expect the same thing will happen to pit bulls.

    • Drake

      Had a mastiff. Calmest dog ever, until somebody entered the house without us or there was a bear in the yard. Then things got scary.

    • ron73440

      He was basically a golden retriever in a rottweiler body.

      The only danger about him is he could knock you over without trying.

      Also it hurt when he stepped on bare feet.

  2. Fourscore

    Thanks Ron

    I always felt that when I loaned money out I’d be surprised if the person paid me back. I just was not going to worry about it. Most of the time they did. OTOH I didn’t give free money to those that were unreliable in keeping care of their own money. Back in the days of monthly pay days a person that was looking for a loan 4-5 days after payday was not a good risk. In days long ago I occasionally held a savings bond as collateral for a small loan, the owner would be the one to suggest it. Those always picked up the bond at the end on the month.

    I don’t have many friends left, except for Glibs, and I don’t know a finer bunch.

    I only had one dog in adult life, a Wiemeraner. The dog was super smart, could read a newspaper but had trouble turning the pages. She could unlock the gate on the fence but I think her boy friend had a key. I put a combination lock on the gate, that stopped her, she knew the combination but the lack of an opposing thump couldn’t be over come.

    • Nephilium

      Any money I “loan” to people I know, I don’t expect to get back. The few times people have tried to pay me back, I tell them to use that money to help someone else who’s having a hard go of it. Of course, that also means that I’ll in general help out with one large major unexpected expense, not multiple.

  3. Derpetologist

    I’m putting some stoicism into practice right now. A student got rowdy with me and punched me in the face. Fortunately, I was able to subdue him quickly and easily. It all started over a cheap ball I confiscated from his cousin in the previous class. Well, now he’s getting charged with a felony, all over a toy that the owner was going to get back in a couple of hours. I popped the ball to keep the guy from making another attempt to swipe it.

    Meh, I took one for the team. One less miscreant for everyone else to deal with.

    I suppose I could have called the school cop in sooner, but it seemed like overkill at the time.

    For my trouble, I got a bloody nose and a bump on the side of my head. The things I put up with for $17/hour…

    • Derpetologist

      one fewer, I should say

      • UnCivilServant

        Nah, you teach math, it’s (Miscreant – 1)

      • kinnath

        Stannis agrees.

      • Fourscore

        20% shouldn’t be in school at all, disruptive for those that actually want to learn. It’s a problem with mandatory attendance. Forcing someone is never a solution and breeds resentment.

        Some kids would excel in a vocational setting, some will excel, temporarily, in a criminal setting. Work farms and chain gangs are no longer socially acceptable.

      • Shpip

        An unfortunate truth that we know all too well, but are loath to admit.

    • The Other Kevin

      Got my own exercise in Stoicism today too. The cousin that’s living with us just got fired this morning. I guess in keeping with the theme today, she told us it was because they suspected she was doing side work as a real estate agent, but she wasn’t actually doing it during work time. Then I heard her telling someone they did see her on her phone doing outside work.

      Cheers, Derpy. There’s a weekend on the way.

      • UnCivilServant

        (-_-)

        I do not understand that behavior. I know it’s all too common, but, still…

      • Nephilium

        If there’s slack time in the position, some people will use the slack time in productive ways for the company they work for, others will use it in productive ways for themselves, and the vast majority will dick around on websites like this.

        /looks in a mirror

      • Sean

        Inconceivable!

      • UnCivilServant

        Commenting on Glibs won’t get me fired.

        Doing work for a side business on the clock will.

      • The Other Kevin

        They had warned her about some other issues, told her those had improved, then used this as an excuse to fire her.

      • Fourscore

        I know some family members (1) that does cash jobs like that

      • RBS

        My step-dad used to own a golf cart sales/repair business. He fired a guy once who was using company tools and company time to run his side business of golf cart maintenance. Then the guy filed a complaint with the state for wrongful termination.

      • ron73440

        I remember you mentioned her before.

        Just another case of “bad luck” for her.

    • EvilSheldon

      And the school-to-prison pipeline claims another innocent victim…

      Seriously, I’m glad you’re all right. Getting hit in the head is nothing to fuck around with…

      • Derpetologist

        I suspect my assailant broke a bone or two in his own hand. He didn’t know how to hit.

      • Derpetologist

        14 is pretty young for a felony charge. Better that he gets a harsh punishment now before he graduates to something worse.

      • Toxteth O'Grady

        Hope you get the college gig.

    • Drake

      You should get combat pay.

      • Fourscore

        I had a temp job one time that my next door neighbor go me. Doing a record review at a bank. Anyway, on my first day my friend took me to the bank coffee shop, we sat with two young female ass’t vice presidents. Anyway, one asked me what my background was, I told her I was fresh out of school, Ed major. She smiled and said she was a schoolteacher, #2 said she was a school teacher, my friend said he too was a school teacher.

        Many smart teachers migrate quickly to less stressful jobs. I never looked for a teaching job.

  4. kinnath

    DOJ expected to announce indictment of Texas Democratic Rep. Henry Cuellar, sources say

    Federal authorities searched the congressman’s home in Laredo in 2022 as part of an investigation into the country of Azerbaijan and a group of U.S. businessmen.

    Cuellar’s home and campaign office in Laredo, Texas, were raided in January 2022 as part of a federal investigation into Azerbaijan and a group of U.S. businessmen who have ties to the country, law enforcement said at the time. His office had pledged to cooperate with the investigation. In April, Cuellar’s lawyer, Joshua Berman, told some news outlets that federal authorities informed him he was not the target of the investigation.

  5. PutridMeat

    Ignore the picture

    You’re not my supervisor! Neat dog.

    I don’t have much contact with my dad due to his lack of character

    I have had 0 contact with my mother for almost 30 years now. I wouldn’t say it’s character, but maybe so. She love(d?) drama, to the degree she would create it if it didn’t exist. I do not like drama. At all. However, it could have been tolerable, but she would manifest it the most vicious and nasty ways such that I wanted no part of it and, since it didn’t seem to go away, I just dropped contact. I sometimes wonder if I could have done things to steer her right, or – to deflect blame in a different direction – whether my father could have been a better husband to her and they could have mutually become better people. But I’ll never know the answer to either of those questions. Stoic? I don’t know, regretful but at peace with it – mostly.

    • Fourscore

      Sad to hear things like that. Completely different family life than the one I knew.

    • ron73440

      Stoic? I don’t know, regretful but at peace with it – mostly.

      Sometimes mostly is all you can ask for.

  6. kinnath

    Another black pill

    President Joe Biden on Friday will name 19 recipients of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, including several Democratic allies such as former Vice President Al Gore, former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    Other recipients include former Secretary of State John Kerry and Rep. Jim Clyburn, D-S.C. as well as Olympics swimming champion Katie Ledecky, actress Michelle Yeoh, former Sen. Elizabeth Dole, R-N.C., and journalist and television talk show host Phil Donahue.

    The Presidential Medal of Freedom is the nation’s highest civilian honor, presented to individuals who have made exemplary contributions to the “prosperity, values, or security of the United States, world peace, or other significant societal, public or private endeavors.”

    • Fourscore

      Doing what he does best, staying out of people’s way and not having to make any decisions himself. After he gets done with that I hope Dr Jill prescribes a 2 scooper cone.

    • Not Adahn

      Eh, not really a black pill. Corrupt partisan gives goodies to his buddies. Film at never.

    • Drake

      Frank Lautenberg?!

  7. Derpetologist

    I’m suspended from work pending an investigation. Figures. Oh well, in the fall, I’ll be teaching at a community college. Hopefully there will be fewer fisticuffs there.

    • Sean

      Doh!

      Sorry dude.

    • UnCivilServant

      It’s standard procedure, I’d wager. Err on the side of caution in case things played out differently.

    • ron73440

      That sucks.

      Good luck on the college front.

  8. Derpetologist

    To paraphrase Heraclitus, out of every 100 students, 20 shouldn’t even be there. 70 are just coasting along on minimal effort. 9 actually care about learning, and 1 is smart enough not to need school.

  9. ron73440

    One question, why is there no alt text on the dog picture?

    I filled in each line available when I inserted it into the article.

    I used the title for the line so I would know which one was alt text.

    • Nephilium

      Just looked at the post, and pulled up the image details. I believe the field you’ll want to use for “alt text” is Image Title Attribute.

      That is what should display when you hover over the image with your mouse (erroneously referred to as alt-text here and TOS), the Alt Text field is for text to display in the case the image isn’t displayed (it’s broken, the browser is in text only mode, or the like). In this case, an appropriate Alt Text would be along the lines of “A black dog laying down in a yard, with a house behind him and a truck in view”.

      Hope this helps.

  10. Derpetologist

    I don’t feel great about pressing charges. I did it for the sake of other teachers and students.

    • Grumbletarian

      The kid would have felt great about punching you if there were no consequences.

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