Stoic Friday LXVI

by | Jun 7, 2024 | Advice, LifeSkills, Musings | 59 comments

Last Week

Meditations

How to Be a Stoic

How to Think Like a Roman Emperor

Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic

If you have anger issues, this one is a great tool (h/t mindyourbusiness)

This week’s book:

Discourses and Selected Writings

Disclaimer: I’m not your Supervisor. These are my opinions after reading through these books a few times.

Epictetus was born a slave around 50 ad. His owner was Epaphroditus, a rich freedman who was once a slave of Nero. Though he was a slave Epictetus was sent to study philosophy under Musonius Rufus.

Epictetus was lame and there are some stories it was caused by his master and others that it was caused by disease.

He was a freedman when all philosophers were banished from Rome in 89 by the Emperor Domitian. He then started his school in Greece, and had many students. He did not leave any writings from his lessons, but one of his students, Flavius Arrian, took notes and wrote the Discourses.

Epictetus did not marry, had no children, and lived to be around 80-85. In retirement, he adopted a child that would have been abandoned and raised him with a woman.

He died sometime around AD 135.

He might be my favorite Stoic teacher. I love his bare bones and very straight forward approach.

Following is a paragraph-by-paragraph discussion of one of his lessons. Epictetus’s text appears in bold, my replies are in normal text.

Of personal Adornment Part III

0Man, what reason have you to complain against your nature?[12] Because it brought you into the world as a man?[13] What then? Ought it to have brought all persons into the world as women? And if that had been the case, what good would you be getting of your self-adornment? For whom would you be adorning yourself, if all were women? Your paltry body[14] doesn’t please you, eh?

When I was single, it was amusing to me watching how all of my buddies would dress up and wear cologne in an attempt to impress girls. Being a poor kid from a farm, I never got into that. I would dress the same way I always did and never have worn cologne. My idea of looking nice was to wear a clean pair of jeans and a Iron Maiden or Led Zeppelin t shirt with no holes.

Make a clean sweep of the whole matter; eradicate your—what shall I call it?—the cause of your hairiness; make yourself a woman all over, so as not to deceive us, not half-man and half-woman. Whom do you wish to please? Frail womankind? Please them as a man. “Yes, but they like smooth men.” Oh, go hang! And if they liked sexual perverts, would you have become such a pervert?

What women like can influence how men dress and act. Being a weirdo, this was not me, but acting like a different person seemed to work for most guys.

Is this your business in life, is this what you were born for, that licentious women should take pleasure in you? Shall we make a man like you a citizen of Corinth,[15] and perchance a warden of the city, or superintendent of ephebi,[16] or general, or superintendent of the games?

In my teens, my goal in life was to pick up women, but I never lost myself in the pursuit. Luckily, when I was 19 I met my wife, so I don’t have a lot of experience in the field.

35Well, and when you have married are you going to pluck out your hairs? For whom and to what end? And when you have begotten boys, are you going to introduce them into the body of citizens as plucked creatures too? A fine citizen and senator and orator! Is this the kind of young men we ought to pray to have born and brought up for us?

Being a man is the best way to raise sons. I see soft men with sons and it makes me cringe inside. What kind of example do they have?

By the gods, young man, may such not be your fate! But once you have heard these words go away and say to yourself, “It was not Epictetus who said these things to me; why, how could they have occurred to him? but it was some kindly god or other speaking through him. For it would not have occurred to Epictetus to say these things, because he is not in the habit of speaking to anyone. Come then, let us obey God, that we rest not under His wrath.” Nay, but if a raven gives you a sign by his croaking, it is not the raven that gives the sign, but God through the raven; whereas if He gives you a sign through a human voice, will you pretend that it is the man who is saying these things to you, so that you may remain ignorant of the power of the divinity, that He gives signs to some men in this way, and to others in that, but that in the greatest and most sovereign matters He gives His sign through His noblest messenger? What else does the poet mean when he says:

Since ourselves we did warn him,
Sending down Hermes, the messenger god, the slayer of Argus,
Neither to murder the husband himself, nor make love to his consort?[17]

As Hermes descended to tell Aegisthus that, so now the gods tell you the same thing.

Sending down Hermes, the messenger god, the slayer of Argus,

If the message is correct, it doesn’t matter where it comes from. Recognizing the wisdom in it can be difficult if it comes from a source I don’t like. When I was a teenager, I remember my Step Dad teaching me many things about farm life and life as a man. At the time I was non-receptive to the life lessons, but after I grew up, I realized that everything he had told me was correct and it was in my best interest, in spite of my assholishness at the time. I have been on the other side of that with my own kids, and they seem to have had the same revelations.

not to distort utterly nor to take useless pains about that which is already right, but to leave the man a man, and the woman a woman, the beautiful person beautiful as a human being, the ugly ugly as a human being. 40Because you are not flesh, nor hair, but moral purpose; if you get that beautiful, then you will be beautiful. So far I do not have the courage to tell you that you are ugly, for it looks to me as though you would rather hear anything than that. But observe what Socrates says to Alcibiades, the most handsome and youthfully beautiful of men: “Try, then, to be beautiful.”[18] What does he tell him? “Dress your locks and pluck the hairs out of your legs?” God forbid! No, he says, “Make beautiful your moral purpose, eradicate your worthless opinions.” How treat your paltry body, then? As its nature is. This is the concern of Another;[19] leave it to Him.—What then? Does the body have to be left unclean?—God forbid! but the man that you are and were born to be, keep that man clean, a man to be clean as a man, a woman as a woman, a child as a child. 45No, but let’s pluck out also the lion’s mane, so that he may not fail to be “cleaned up,” and the cock’s comb, for he too ought to be “cleaned up”![20] Clean? Yes, but clean as a cock, and the other clean as a lion, and the hunting dog clean as a hunting dog!

Men and women have differing standards of beauty, but it seems as though the lines have been blurring for most of my adult life. Even with my long hair, I have never been confused for a woman. I don’t dress to impress anyone and never have, job interviews being an exception.

Not everybody is good looking, and not everyone is a good person. What is in my control of these two things? I try to be the best person I can, and try to take care of my physical health. I have met good looking people that were ugly on the inside. If I can keep my moral center and control my reactions, my exterior is not important. That being said I am working out and running, not 100% just so I can be healthy, I also would like to lose my gut and get some definition back into my frame. While it is nice to look good, it is not important. The ones that make it too important become unattractive in my opinion.

About The Author

ron73440

ron73440

What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade MOLON LABE

59 Comments

  1. Sean

    So, I shouldn’t be shaving my balls?

      • PutridMeat
      • Sean

        ^^ A classic.

    • EvilSheldon

      Didn’t we have this discussion just a few days ago?

      • Sean

        I don’t recall. Been a weird week.

        *shrug*

      • Nephilium

        Apparently he took it to heart the esthetician.

      • R.J.

        That was the Uranus jokes.

  2. Nephilium

    I’m with you on general dress. I’ll dress up on the occasion I’m going somewhere fancy (or appropriate). In those instances, I leave the final say on what I’m wearing to the girlfriend.

  3. PutridMeat

    What women like can influence how men dress and act.

    Can? I’m not sure it’s not 100% rather than just ‘can’. To say nothing of how much we might think is internal male preference that has been created over millennia of evolutionary pressure. I would guess that almost everything we men like about ourselves appearance wise is driven by female sexual selection. It’s a simpler question when it comes to physical characteristics than when it comes to grooming and dress – the former is relatively uniform across cultures while the later is decidedly not. But what ever those norms are within a given culture are largely driven by female selection – with of course a huge dollop of feedback depending on the proclivities/appearance of the most desirable male as judged by a whole host of other selection criteria – with those proclivities and appearance having a large dose of female selection already built in.

    IOW, its pretty damn complicated. But I think I’ll stick with a much stronger word than ‘can’.

  4. EvilSheldon

    And if they liked sexual perverts, would you have become such a pervert?

    I’m already a sexual pervert, so no problems there!

    I’m frankly less concerned with looking too soft, overly adorned, or whatever, and more concerned with not ending up on People of Walmart. “I’ve given up on taking care of myself,” is the look I really want to avoid.

  5. trshmnstr

    Question for TPTB: what is the process for submitting an article using this new system? Is the publish button safe to hit?

    • UnCivilServant

      You hit the publich button it becomes a “Submit for Review” button. Hit that again and it’s just like old times.

      • Sean

        publich

        -An undead sorcerer who likes frequenting taverns.

      • Nephilium

        Sean:

        Would the publich’s phylactery generally be a barstool, a tap handle, or something else?

      • UnCivilServant

        Clearly, it would be something entirely unrelated to alcohol or pubs.

        Wouldn’t want someone to guess and find it!

      • EvilSheldon

        The worm in the Mezcal bottle?

      • Grummun

        An undead sorcerer who likes frequenting taverns.

        And that fucker is a mean drunk.

      • Sean

        Would the publich’s phylactery generally be a barstool, a tap handle, or something else?

        A pony keg.

      • Nephilium

        EvilSheldon:

        Damn it. I can’t find a clip of both scenes from Poltergeist II. I did however stumble across someone who did a deepfake of Biden in the role of the evil priest.

  6. UnCivilServant

    Only 4427 words over 32 pages (with a lot of pictures) took a whole workday and I feel worn out.

    Of course that was 32 pages of technical process documentation, so it wasn’t exactly the fun kind of writing. No character, no plot, Couldn’t even add jokes.

    • UnCivilServant

      (I started writing it yesterday, which is why finishing at 12:30 is “a whole workday”)

  7. The Other Kevin

    “And if they liked sexual perverts, would you have become such a pervert?”

    If Epictetus were alive today he’d be rolling in his grave.

    • Sean

      Or buying bondage gear…

    • PutridMeat

      Depending on what one means by ‘sexual pervert’ the answer is unequivocally “Yes”. Of course the very definition of what it means for one to be a ‘sexual pervert’ already has female sexual selection (and the male feedback into it of course) built into it!

      • Nephilium

        Of course, some of the things that are considered standard today would likely be considered perversions in ancient Greece. The reverse is true as well.

  8. Gender Traitor

    Let me just say, please, no Axe. đŸ˜©

    • Sean

      *splashes on Drakkar Noir*

      • The Other Kevin

        Sometimes I think we are the same person. But no joke, that was my go-to in high school.

    • The Other Kevin

      How about a little Drakkar Noir? *waggles eyebrows*

      • Sean

        LOL

    • Suthenboy

      I hear the Axe jokes and am familiar with the phenomena of teenage boys and cologne but I have no idea what the stuff smells like.

      • R.J.

        It smells
metrosexual.
        I myself am clean, and carry the manly scent of stress and coffee about my person.

      • The Other Kevin

        Mrs. TOK is very sensitive to heavy fragrances so thankfully she prefers me not heavily perfumed.

    • Gender Traitor

      ::searches local sporting goods stores’ sites for nose plugs::

  9. Suthenboy

    “If you knew the sexual proclivities of every person on earth there is not one of them you would not find to be a pervert.” – Samuel Clemens

    • Nephilium

      /raises hand

      I don’t consider myself a pervert, the rest of you may be freaks though.

    • Fourscore

      If every one of us is a pervert then that becomes the norm?

      There are no perverts in Pervertown.

      Someone I knew, can’t remember who, always said “preverts” I’m guessing that is the training ground to becoming a pervert.

  10. Mojeaux

    What women like can influence how men dress and act.

    “So avoid using the word ‘very’ because it’s lazy. A man is not very tired, he is exhausted. Don’t use very sad, use morose. Language was invented for one reason, boys – to woo women – and, in that endeavor, laziness will not do. It also won’t do in your essays.”

    • Fourscore

      That’s very clever, Moj

    • UnCivilServant

      Except ‘very tired’ is less tired than ‘exhaused’ and ‘very sad’ is different in character to ‘morose’.

      Lack of precision and unforced inaccuracies will not do.

      • Mojeaux

        The point on the line between “very tired” and “exhausted” is minuscule in this exercise. A woman who is listening to a man will find “exhausted” far more exciting than “very tired,” so if you want to get laid, use “exhausted.”

    • Nephilium

      Jill : How could you possibly enjoy a film like that?

      Steve : Because it’s got naked women in it. Look, I like naked women. I’m a bloke. I’m supposed to like them. We’re born like that. We like naked women as soon as we’re pulled out of one. Halfway down the birth canal we’re already enjoying the view. Look, it is the four pillars of the male heterosexual psyche. We like naked women, stockings, lesbians, and Sean Connery best as James Bond. Because that is what being a boy is. And if you don’t like it darling, join a film collective. Look, I want to spend the rest of my life with the woman at the end of that table there. But that does not stop me wanting to see several thousand more naked bottoms before I die. Because that’s what being a bloke is. When man invented fire, he didn’t say, “Hey, let’s cook.” He said, “Great! Now we can see naked bottoms in the dark. As soon as Gutenberg invented the printing press, we were using it to make pictures of, hey, naked bottoms. We’ve turned the Internet into an enormous international database of naked bottoms. So, you see, the story of male achievement through the ages, feeble though it may have been, has been the story of our struggle to get a better look at your bottoms. Frankly, girls, I’m not sure how insulted you really ought to be.

      –Coupling

      • The Other Kevin

        “I crawled out of one and I’ve been trying to get back in ever since.”
        -My FIL

    • Don escaped Texas

      how men dress

      I put the worst picture of me ever taken on my dating profile figuring to weed out shallow bitches: I’ve just reached civilization after hiking 50 miles in the pure backcountry of the Gallinas Mountains, I’m filthy and grungy and leaning against a buddy’s truck in basically combat togs, cap, and boots.

      Turns out, most chicks were slightly disappointed when GI Don didn’t show up. Always tie and jacket, which many don’t really care about, but shoes: so many dudes take themselves out of the race with crap shoes. You can’t spend too much on proper footwear.

      We will never know if Grizzly Don would have (**measures his words**) enjoyed more of Texas than spit-and-shine Don

  11. R.J.

    Did the site just go down for everyone?

    • Nephilium

      No idea what you’re talking about.

      (Yeah, got timeouts for a bit)

    • Ted S.

      I didn’t notice anything.

    • Mojeaux

      For me, yes. I almost howled about it on Twitter.

  12. The Late P Brooks

    Someone I knew, can’t remember who, always said “preverts”

    Maybe it was this guy

  13. The Late P Brooks

    High minded

    More consequentially, they have revealed that the clash between Lewis’ rough-and-tumble sensibilities and the Post’s more high-minded culture is even more profound than previously suspected: He can’t seem to figure out where his Fleet Street smarts are necessary and refreshing, and where they are toxic and self-defeating.

    Inside the Post, the conversation among reporters surveyed Thursday night centered on whether Lewis could continue leading the publication.

    The fleas pretending they own the circus.

    • R.J.

      How dare Lewis try to make the paper professional and profitable!
      Fire. Them. All.

    • Suthenboy

      We have seen this movie a few times before, havent we?

    • Suthenboy

      Given the naked, shameless propaganda and TDS absurdities they have been publishing this was inevitable, wasn’t it? I mean, c’mon, the rag is just outright embarrassing. I see WaPo and stop reading right there.

  14. Don escaped Texas

    My day started out sucky.

    Colleague (colleague who lost a leg a few years ago) advised: you can choose to start your day over whenever you wish.

  15. The Late P Brooks

    “We all know the Post needs to make money. We understand the need for change. But what kind of change have we wrought?”

    Clutch those pearls.

    Clutch them.