Sanctifying Politicians

by | Sep 10, 2024 | Politics, Society | 330 comments

(Note: many links below are to progressive websites. I’m also sending a modified version of this piece to a private group. Since most of them lean progressive, I wanted sources that they couldn’t easily dismiss. I’ll try to remember to TW you).

One of the things that has fascinated me—in a morbid kind of way—in recent years is the desperate need for people to reinvent their chosen political candidate as some kind of perfect being. I describe this process as sanctifying, because it seems to have parallels to the theological concept which describes something earthly which has been turned into something holy. In keeping with this parallel, those who go down this path also have their own “holy books” – websites, news sources, radio stations, etc. These various sources means that members of Team Red and Team Blue are spared the onerous task of evaluating competing views. Instead, their chosen sources tell them why their opponents are wrong.

A couple of caveats to the contents of this essay. First, it will focus on the U.S. since that’s what I’m more familiar with at this time. Second, I use presidential candidates as examples, but much of what follows can also be applied to candidates for other offices. Third, I am not saying that the people I discuss have no good points. What I am getting at is the need to airbrush away all faults and reinvent politicians as almost messianic. This approach first drew my attention during the 2008 campaign, and subsequent administration, of Barack Obama. The rock-star like campaign rallies; people passing out in the crowd (overcome by adoration); the complete and open abandonment of any kind of objectivity by the media; the attempt to bury Obama’s slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians via drone strikes (not to mention his extra-judicial assassination of an American citizen). But, as I discuss below, it did not end with Obama.

Finally, in the interests of space, I’m only looking at the idea of “sanctification.” I’m not examining—in detail—the other side of the coin, the demonization of the opponent. But, herewith one or two brief examples. In the 1790s, the Federalists described Jefferson as determined to destroy the constitutional order and replace it with the evils of democracy.

Supporters of Franklin D. Roosevelt’s foreign policy derided so-called isolationists as, essentially, passive supporters of Hitler.

As with sanctification, demonization also seems to have ramped up in recent years with Donald Trump as the lightning rod. This has led to bizarre assertions: Trump is the worst person to ever be president (examine Andrew Jackson, Richard Nixon, and Woodrow Wilson before you try to defend that view in public). Or, Trump is the worst president (may I remind you of the gold-star ineptitude of Jimmy Carter or the perpetual war-mongering of George W. Bush). So, demonization is there but, as I noted, I want to look more at the idea of sanctification.

In 2016 Hillary Clinton was reinvented as an extraordinary, once-in-a-lifetime talent, and a kind person. This despite a decades-long history of incompetence and vicious personal attacks on others. Her demand to “believe all women” was celebrated despite her decades of verbal assaults on the character of women who accused her husband of sexual assault. That same year came the desperate attempt by people on the right to somehow paint Trump as a family man (which of his families I wonder) and someone who truly cared about the average worker (thereby ignoring his serial financial destruction of New York City sub-contractors). And some of us will remember the bizarre support for Trump’s covefe tweet (which our own The Hyperbole put into brutal context).

In 2020, Joe Biden, an angry, mean-spirited, dishonest, soft racist who has failed at everything in life except getting elected, was re-born as good ol’ Joe from Scranton. He was a friend to minorities (despite snarking about Indian immigrants and being co-author on one of the most horrible crime bills ever to pass Congress – TW Vox). He was a lover of the workingman (despite his decades-long slander of a working-class truck driver – TW National Review). He was a defender of women (despite his own record of questionable behavior and an accusation of sexual assault that his eventual veep pick would call creditable). And yet this sanctification was accepted by those who wanted to “stop Donald Trump.” As I overheard someone say at the gym, “Joe Biden is a decent man who has spent his whole life trying to help the average man” (which led Tundra to hilariously ask in a comment, “did you hit them – it would not be a violation of the NAP”). More recently, we were treated to the weird defenses of Biden’s obvious mental decline.

In the last few weeks, we have seen two more grotesque examples of this political sanctification. One comes from the right. Shortly after the attempted assassination of Trump, social media posts began to appear suggesting Trump was under the protection of the angels of God…

…or even of Jesus himself.

The second comes from the left. Kamala Harris is being reinvented (sanctified) as: a progressive jurist (despite being a vicious prosecutor who indicted the parents of truants double TW: TOS/ENB and refused a court order to release non-violent offenders because, she declared, California needed their labor); as having a sharp mind (despite all the evidence suggesting she is no mental giant); and being of calm demeanor (despite, by all accounts appearing to be incredibly unlikable, and treating staff members like crap).

These are the kind of things that are the crux of my concern: many Americans are investing their chosen politicians with virtues beyond that of the common man. This despite all the evidence that almost all politicians are the sleaziest of us all. This idea is being extended to the idea of politics itself. We are all familiar with the stomach-churning references to the Capitol—in the wake of the January 6 demonstration—as “sacred.” In an overseas parallel, in 2022, then prime minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern lamented that protestors had “desecrated” the grounds of parliament.

As to why this sanctification happens, I don’t have any firm ideas. Part of it, of course, is the gradual deification of the state itself (I recommend Michael Burleigh’s Sacred Causes and Earthly Powers). But I also think the process is partially rooted in peoples’ self-perception. Most people think of themselves as at least decent people – and I think most are. I wonder if, subconsciously, decent people don’t want to think of themselves as supporting reprobates. So, their chosen candidate must, in some ways, be good and decent as well.  People would do well to learn George Bernard Shaw’s bromide that “politics is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”

The bottom line is this: despite the fervent wishes of libertarians and anarchists, politics is going to be a big part of our lives for the foreseeable future (despite the reality that politicians can’t “solve” much of anything). And everyone should feel free to get involved however they wish: vote, campaign, argue, even run for office. But, as people who either oppose the state completely, or have dim views about it at the best of times, one of our goals should be to dissuade our friends from sanctifying their chosen candidates. In other words, persuade people to think of “their” candidate not as a righteous savior, but rather, to paraphrase that old—possibly apocryphal—saying that: “s/he may be a son-of-a-bitch, but s/he’s my son-of-a bitch.”

About The Author

Raven Nation

Raven Nation

330 Comments

  1. Ted S.

    I suppose, then, that Raven Nation is Glibertarians’ son-of-a-bitch? 😉

    • Raven Nation

      Meh, there’s worse titles.

  2. Stinky Wizzleteats

    Wait just a damn minute now, do you have proof that the Archangel Gabriel did NOT keep Trump from being shot?

    • Common Tater

      There is also no proof that Gabriel did not tell Trump he’s pregnant.

      • Chafed

        You’re both right!

  3. rhywun

    may I remind you of the gold-star ineptitude of Jimmy Carter or the perpetual war-mongering of George W. Bush

    Or Joe Fucking Biden. I have no qualms claiming that he is the worst president of my lifetime. And could very well be topped by his vice president.

    But yes, my game strategy is to hate-vote against the Obama/Biden/Harris blob. If that means voting for Trump, so be it.

    • Grumbletarian

      But yes, my game strategy is to hate-vote against the Obama/Biden/Harris blob. If that means voting for Trump, so be it.

      This is where I’m at. Trump is no angel, but he’s nowhere near the villain the left has tried so hard to make him. They impeached him for doing something Biden bragged about doing as VP. They twisted laws almost unrecognizably to turn misdemeanors past their statute of limitations into the lowest level felonies possible to make Trump guilty of being some sort of Time Lord criminal. They found him guilty of violating laws they then declared they’d never bring against anyone else, so please don’t leave New York State, other businesspeople. They decided Mar-A-Lago was worth about forty-five dollars instead of the multiple millions bankers agreed was the value in order to peg him as a crook.

      There are more than a few things I dislike about Trump, but there are less than a few things I like about the Democrats.

      • R C Dean

        Same here.

        And yes, I’ll be voting in person on Election Day. I don’t trust the Post Office with ballots from Repub-leaning areas such as mine. I also don’t want to submit a junk mail ballot because the more they get used, the harder they will be to get rid of (yes, I’m pretty sure that ship has sailed).

      • rhywun

        I have never for one moment considered the fraudulent “vote by mail” option.

      • Mythical Libertarian Woman

        Oregon is mandatory mail-in only voting. Coincidentally, there hasn’t been a non-Democrat in state office since the year that passed.

      • Gustave Lytton

        *ahem* Dennis Richardson

        Still, fuck Phil Keisling.

      • rhywun

        mandatory mail-in only voting

        Is there any way to challenge that in court, I wonder.

        Start with the fact that the US condemns the same behavior when any other country does it.

  4. R C Dean

    Good write-up, Raven.

    The other thing sanctifying politicians does is it gives their supporters license to viciously attack their opponents. It feeds into the politics-as-morality-play that is one of the poisons in our body politic.

  5. kinnath
  6. KK, Plump & Unfiltered

    Very interesting analysis!

    And now I have a Simple Minds song stuck in my head.

    • Gustave Lytton

      I’m think Living Colour.

    • The Other Kevin

      Should have scrolled down that extra centimeter.

      • ZWAK, doktor of BRAIN SCIENCE!

        Why, do you think you are the next Kamala?

      • Rebel Scum

        Every centimeter counts when you’re doing every mayor and half the NBA west.

  7. Rebel Scum

    I want to look more at the idea of sanctification.

    My favorite sacred cow to slaughter is dishonest Abe.

    Also, is it just me or has Kommiela been given the children’s table version of a podium?

  8. R C Dean

    Mrs. Dean wants to watch. We’ve got NBC news on. It’s hard to see how their pre-debate show could be more pro-Harris.

  9. The Late P Brooks

    Well, I guess I’ll see how much of this minstrelsy I can abide.

  10. Rebel Scum

    “How many points do I get for spelling my name correctly?” – Kammy

  11. Fourscore

    Politicians are the Destructors of the Future. Between the reckless spending and inane foreign policy our children/grandchildren face a bleak future.

  12. KK, Plump & Unfiltered

    GIt in the zoom, dickweeds

  13. The Other Kevin

    5 seconds in and Taibbi drinks twice. Please don’t play along at home. I’m afraid I’m going to see someone die of alcohol poisoning live.

  14. Common Tater

    PROJECT 2025!!!

  15. kinnath

    I just tuned into the debate. 90 seconds in, and I can’t stand it.

  16. Rebel Scum

    J6 and project 2025…You lying bitch.

    Kammeltoe is trying to “excuse me, I’m speaking.” By only using facial expressions.

    It seems like Dems are going with all the same, decades old talking points along with a load of lies about Trump.

    • The Other Kevin

      He headed off that 2025 thing pretty well.

    • Gustave Lytton

      She’s acting like a woman. Heads I win, tails you lose.

  17. The Other Kevin

    She is just all over the place. Trying to squeeze in all her talking points into one answer.

  18. Common Tater

    Holy fuck that moderator is campaigning for Harris.

  19. Rebel Scum

    Unsurprisingly Trump is debating Kamala and the “moderators”.

  20. Gustave Lytton

    Wait, selling out to China? Like her current boss?

    • rhywun

      lolright? Does she really wanna go there??

  21. Rebel Scum

    Now it’s ok to criticize the chicoms. Got it.

    • Gustave Lytton

      And the covid origin is totes up for debate now. After four years of slamming the door shut.

  22. The Late P Brooks

    President Trump, why do you hate women?

  23. Rebel Scum

    Kammy’s optics are awful. I’ll allow it.

    • Gustave Lytton

      She can’t control herself.

  24. Common Tater

    Fact-checking moderators.

    • Rebel Scum

      I may have missed it but I don’t think he said it was legal anywhere to kill a baby after birth.

      • Gustave Lytton

        No, he was pointing out there are Democrats advocating for post birth abortions.

      • Rebel Scum

        Which there are. And what he’s been saying for awhile.

  25. Rebel Scum

    “states are voting on it”

    We know how Democrats love democracy.

  26. The Other Kevin

    She’s going back to quoting 2025 after he totally disavowed it.

  27. The Late P Brooks

    Thank you for that stirring and inspirational soundbite, Ms Vice President.

  28. Sean

    I watched 20 seconds or so. Kamala wants to kill babies.

    I’m out.

    • Gustave Lytton

      Democrats need to kill babies so families can have children. Got it.

  29. Q Continuum

    This is honestly not all that impressive for a moderately attractive woman.

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/real-life/exhausted-model-who-vowed-bonk-33637366

    “Annie, who is expected to earn more than a £1million this year, was somebody who used to hide her body in shame, after an unfortunate experience growing up[…]her maths teacher decided to weigh everyone in the class – resulting in her being the second heaviest. Completely humiliated, she started to cut her meals in half and a doctor eventually diagnosed her with an eating disorder”

    …aaaaaand there you go.

  30. Rebel Scum

    Both a national ban and legalization of abortion are not constitutional according to the most recent scouts decision on the matter. Zealots on both sides are being dishonest. It’s not a federal issue. Let it go.

    • Drake

      Yes. The whole discussion a waste of breath.

    • Rebel Scum

      scouts scotus

  31. Rebel Scum

    “Can I get a yes or no?”

    He said no, bitch.

  32. creech

    Trump is wandering off topic on abortion and Harris’s tear jerking response will hit home with many women.

  33. Common Tater

    I thought the mics would be cut off?

    • Gustave Lytton

      “No, that’s not true.”

  34. kinnath

    what the fuck is she talking about now . . . let’s go to a trump rally.

    • Rebel Scum

      Don’t threaten me with a good time.

  35. Rebel Scum

    The “border bill” was a border invasion facilitation bill, you treasonous cunte.

  36. The Late P Brooks

    My crowd is bigger than your crowd.

  37. Gustave Lytton

    8 years of a cunte face nagger in chief. Elect away, bozos.

  38. KSuellington

    “They’re eating the dogs and the cats!!” Ok I turned it on for 30 seconds to hear that. Good timing.

  39. Common Tater

    The moderators are debating Trump.

  40. The Other Kevin

    Eating dogs and cats. This is the best timeline ever.

  41. rhywun

    The Springfield city manager was lying, asshole.

  42. kinnath

    Now she starts to cackle

  43. rhywun

    She’s bragging about Cheney and McCain – holy fucking shit.

  44. The Other Kevin

    Here comes the cackle.

  45. Gustave Lytton

    Dick Cheney endorsed me!

    • Gustave Lytton

      I’m the swamp creature candidate!

    • UnCivilServant

      She seems to have suffered a cranial inversion, someone get a rotator, stat!

      • juris imprudent

        Silly boy, she is head over heels for ya.

  46. The Late P Brooks

    Establishment Republicans hate him. That’s good enough for me.

  47. The Other Kevin

    This whole time she’s acting like she and Biden aren’t in charge.

    • Compelled Speechless

      Spoiler alert: they’re not. And if she “wins” this election, she still won’t be.

    • juris imprudent

      What do you mean what have I been doing the ladt four years?

      Did see a Trump ad which featured her talking about the woeful state of the economy, followed by her saying “this is Bidenomics” — just fucking brutal.

  48. Rebel Scum

    I’m sure the city manager is an upstanding fellow with nothing to hide, who certainly would not throw his constituents under the bus.

  49. Rebel Scum

    What’s Horizontal Harris’s staff turnover rate, not counting west coast mayors?

  50. kinnath

    The moderator corrects trump but not harris

    • The Other Kevin

      Yep. They are fact checking him live.

      • Rebel Scum

        With facts that are not factual.

  51. creech

    Shit, Trump is wandering and she’s kicking his ass rhetorically. Can we survive 4 years of Harris?

    • Common Tater

      He needs to get on point.

    • Drake

      He’s whiffing on softballs.

    • Gustave Lytton

      Just think, you can have 4-8 years of saying “I was right!”

      • Ed Wuncler

        As I always say to my wife, “When we are in the bread lines or lined up against some wall, at least I’ll have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right all along.”

    • cyto

      No. No, we cannot

    • Urthona

      Trump getting smoked by Kamala Harris is embarrassing.

      • Ownbestenemy

        I mean…is she?

  52. Rebel Scum

    Of course crime is down when you don’t have reporting from the crime centers of the country.

  53. Rebel Scum

    “Phony Willis. That’s what people say, a big, fat phony.”

  54. Ed Wuncler

    With the fact checkers helping Harris out and Trump not being able to stay focused and on subject, she is sort of kicking his ass. There were many opportunities where he could have shut down her non sense but like usual he can’t stay focused.

    • The Other Kevin

      She puts two or three things into each answer, and he goes for the shiny object. Like she mentions his rallies and he responds to that.

      • Ed Wuncler

        Exactly. Fuck the rallies, explain why the bill they presented was a load of horseshit and why he fought against it.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Meh..gotta put your mind into a mindless voter not the brain trust we have here

  55. Gustave Lytton

    Name calling and putting people down? The same party that hates Americans and curb stomps them whenever they can?

  56. Drake

    Whoever coached her is smart. Put a little off topic hook into her answers so Trump chases after the nonsense.

  57. cyto

    pregame, MSNBC giving their “objective analysis” of the participants said that Harris had spent her entire career protecting the rights of all of us, and working for the common people.

    I cannot think of a more contrafactual assertion.

    But that is what they are campaigning on, and all of the spin-masters are flogging it like a revival-tent minister exaulting the resurrection.

    • Rebel Scum

      This whole affair would make Goebbels blush.

      • juris imprudent

        Blush? He’d be applauding.

  58. Rebel Scum

    “I’m taking, now…Sound familiar?”

    Bazinga!

  59. Gustave Lytton

    All she has to do is smirk for two hours. No more interviews, townhalls, or follow up debates. And the media has already blessed the rope a dope strategy.

    • Ed Wuncler

      If I was in her shoes, I wouldn’t do another debate either or a news presser. Why should I when I know the media is doing most of the leg work for me.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Yep. Campaign from Joe’s basement.

  60. rhywun

    I’m out. Her bald-faced lies are making me sick.

  61. Ownbestenemy

    Oh going for the Charlottesville when it has been debunked? Who prepped her?

    • The Other Kevin

      People who know 90% of people have no idea it’s been debunked.

    • Rebel Scum

      It’s all the same lies. I am not surprised. But I am disappointed.

      • juris imprudent

        Appealing to the voters who want to believe the lies.

    • Ed Wuncler

      They repeat it because their believers believe it despite the debunking.

      • Ownbestenemy

        I agree but just as the moderator called out Trump for election ‘denial’ shouldn’t they have done so with this? I know…wishful thinking.

  62. The Late P Brooks

    You’re going to hear lies tonight. I guarantee it. I will be telling them.

  63. The Other Kevin

    Charlottesville hoax.

    • Drake

      Can’t stop repeating it.

  64. Gustave Lytton

    Not going back.. to another four years of Biden Harris. Do it Donny.

  65. The Other Kevin

    And now “bloodbath”. Scott Adams is having a stroke right now.

  66. Rebel Scum

    Kommie-la is entirely unburdened by having to even pretend to be honest.

  67. Ownbestenemy

    So…checking on his ‘flip-flop’ but have they asked Kamala on her numerous flip-flops? Howevere…this is a gotcha question from the media and he should have just deflected that question.

    • Ownbestenemy

      He fell into this trap….

      • Ownbestenemy

        Jesus…Trump fell into this…WTF ABC?

  68. Gustave Lytton

    You must sign onto our version of reality.

    • juris imprudent

      Don’t worry, it’ll be a different reality tomorrow.

  69. Common Tater

    Are they going to go to commercial? I need another bacardi and I can’t listen to this cunt sober.

  70. The Other Kevin

    Is Kamala still in this debate? I feel like she’s just an afterthought now. It’s Trump vs the moderators.

  71. The Late P Brooks

    Totally neutral.

  72. kinnath

    She must be sober tonight. She’s grating, but not unhinged

  73. Rebel Scum

    I understand the Glib criticisms of Trump in this debate. Personally I think he’s doing ok considering he is debating a corrupt system, a regime, not a political opponent.

    • The Other Kevin

      Look at some of these changes. Muir throws out a huge statement and she has to do is agree.

  74. The Other Kevin

    The only thing saving Trump in this debate is how absolutely in the can these moderators are.

  75. Gustave Lytton

    “Do you think Donald Trump will be a dictator and refuse to leave office if he should be elected? And eats babies for breakfast?”

    • Ownbestenemy

      I mean..that is what I heard.

    • juris imprudent

      Well, I would never say such a thing!

  76. kinnath

    I’m done

    • Ownbestenemy

      Ah come on…you just missed the explainer of Israel and Hamas

  77. Rebel Scum

    American Pravda.

  78. Drake

    This is terrible. Trump was calm last time, now he’s angry old man. She’s full of shit. Going to bed.

    • rhywun

      I’d be pissed too if she just fucking straight up lies over and over again and nobody calls her out on it.

      • The Other Kevin

        They aren’t calling her out on being the incumbent.

  79. Ownbestenemy

    Spheres of Terror is a great band name

  80. Drake

    When she talked about all the backstabbers who he hired the first time, how did he not bring up people like Gabbard, RFK, and Musk who are on his team.

  81. The Late P Brooks

    Weakling. All those other countries laugh at him. That’s why they ran wild during his presidency.

  82. Mojeaux

    No. Just … no.

    How bout some Annie Agar?

    MOAR BRED MOAR CIRCUSES!!!

  83. The Late P Brooks

    You incited an insurrection in which hundreds of police officers were killed. If you had that day to live over, would you do anything differently?

  84. The Late P Brooks

    Why do you want to see the people of Ukraine enslaved?

  85. Ownbestenemy

    Solid statesmen answer

    • Ownbestenemy

      Why isn’t the same question posed to her?

  86. Common Tater

    How does a black chick sound that nasal?

    • The Other Kevin

      She had that under control, and it’s back. Ugh.

    • Drake

      Indian Canadian upbringing?

  87. Rebel Scum

    “Excuse me, I’m speaking you are not running against Biden, you’re running against me.”

  88. The Late P Brooks

    “DOMINOES!” screeched the hectoring bitch.

  89. Common Tater

    So you are saying you blew Zelinskyyy?

  90. The Other Kevin

    President Trump is lying again. Your response vice president?

  91. cyto

    Her answers on Ukraine are great if you have no idea what is going on.

    • Rebel Scum

      Unfortunately. Her acting game is on.

  92. groat scotum

    When can I start doomscrolling twitter about the end of America? Because it sounds like political nihilism is back on the menu, boys.

  93. Rebel Scum

    The regime cuntes are desperately trying to lie their way into an unnecessary, pointless war with Russia.

    “Bro, you don’t got the 100 million Putin wants to conquer Europe.”

  94. Ownbestenemy

    Camp David is a storied American location?

    • Drake

      Didn’t Carter bring the PLO there?

  95. The Late P Brooks

    That was quite a stirring soliloquy, Ms Harris.

  96. Ed Wuncler

    It’s just wild to me that these people lie so naturally without a hint of remorse or retrospection. And the worst part is that their lies gets people’s livelihoods destroyed or gotten others straight up killed but yet they persist in their lies and will destroy those who call them out.

    I’m not a perfect man, but I try to live by a set of principles everyday and if I deviate from it, I’m hard on myself because I know that to live a fulfilling life Christian life, one must be a man or woman of integrity. But then you see someone like Kamala Harris whose career is built on throwing people in jail and destroying their lives moving on up in the world and being handed power. Not only is she not remorseful for the life she has led, she’s given a free pass by those who tell us day in and day out how moral and better than they are than most.

    • The Other Kevin

      The amount of lying is just staggering. Hoax after hoax, lie after lie. It is foreign to me too.

      • Ed Wuncler

        I wonder if they look in the mirror everyday and have to convince themselves that all of this lying and dishonestly is worth it.

      • The Other Kevin

        To them every “noble lie” is justified for the greater good.

  97. Common Tater

    RACE!!!!!!!

    • Ownbestenemy

      She is stumbling over the setup from ABC…

    • Ownbestenemy

      *Checks my ability to move up in FedGov* Nope…at the bottom of the list cause I am white and straight.

  98. Rebel Scum

    “Biden’s decision to withdraw from Afghanistan.”

    It was Trump’s decision. The Biden-HARRIS regime failed to adhere to the terms set by the Trump administration. This offended the Taliban. The Taliban considered the terms null and void.

    • The Other Kevin

      Biden had no problem throwing out all of Trump’s executive orders, but for some reason they had no leeway in that withdrawal deal?

  99. The Late P Brooks

    *outright prolonged laughter*

  100. Rebel Scum

    Wrap yourself in that flag, you dishonest cunte.

  101. creech

    One fucking lie after another, but told convincingly by Harris. She kicked his ass in this debate. Independents will see an angry old man and a calm, rational woman. I just hope I’m reading this result wrong (I thought Hillary was a lock to win in 2016) but fear we will be getting used to “Madame President.”

    • Ownbestenemy

      Eh…I think from a non-glib standpoint – she gains a point. People in political circles, I think Trump gets a point. I think this is a wash.

      • kinnath

        Harris did not clearly lose. She was way more coherent than her stump speeches would indicate.

        Thus, Trump looses big time, because the press will say Harris wins and Trump looses. The press has all it needs to continue the gaslighting of America.

      • juris imprudent

        The media would say Trump lost even if Harris was worse than Biden.

      • MikeS

        kinnath nailed it.

    • KSuellington

      I actually don’t think the debate matters all that much. She will continue her version of the Biden basement campaign.

    • Rebel Scum

      Lies convincingly told are not necessarily convincing. I’m hoping people can see through the bs, see the act. This is a no black pill zone.

      • juris imprudent

        The question isn’t about the liar, it’s about those who want to believe the lies.

    • rhywun

      I’d like to think that genuine independents do a little more research than committed party animals and based on more than one bullshit debate.

      But what do I know.

  102. Rebel Scum

    Now we are on to the central park 5 lie…

    …and the birther lie!

    The birther thing was Her Shrillness, Hillary of Arkansas Chappaqua.

  103. Ownbestenemy

    Oh she is going in on her plan that she copied straight from Biden’s website while stating she isn’t Biden.

    • Drake

      Think they are dumb enough to let Walz debate Vance?

      • Ownbestenemy

        Welp..good luck Kamala walking back your lurch to the center while tossing your lefties to the side.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Nope. Campaign will go into submarine mode now until after Election Day.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Kamala won’t have to walk back anything. Her surrogates and the MSM will do it for her.

  104. groat scotum

    The forever Trump crowd can content themselves that DeSantis won’t be president either.

    • MikeS

      Right? Winning!!!11

    • groat scotum

      But hey, only four years of Harris, right? Then Trump can run again. And at least he derailed DeSantis forever, right?

  105. Drake

    Her voice… Like having a tooth drilled. It’s unbearable.

  106. The Late P Brooks

    Insurance and “health care” not same.

  107. Rebel Scum

    Kamala owns guns. So chill out about 2a, you far-right, low-browed, knuckle-dragging bitter-clingers.

    • Drake

      Not like we can look up her speeches from 4 years ago. We’ll just have to believe.

  108. kinnath

    Trump surges 14 points with independents, Latinos shift 19 points in ex-prez’s favor: poll

    Former President Donald Trump appears to have made remarkable gains of about 14 points among independents and 19 points with Latino voters relative to Vice President Kamala Harris in a new poll.

    Trump, 78, jumped ahead of Harris with a three-point lead among independents in a multi-candidate contest, 49% to 46%, gaining significant ground since the August poll in which he trailed Harris, 59, by 11 points, 48% to 37%, according to fresh polling from NPR/PBS News/Marist.

    In between the August and September polls, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. — who notched 12% support in the prior survey — dropped out of the race and endorsed Trump. Additionally, Harris’ “honeymoon” from her abrupt ascension to the nomination appears to have begun leveling out.

    In an honest election, the dems don’t have a chance at winning. But it doesn’t matter.

  109. The Late P Brooks

    Her voice… Like having a tooth drilled. It’s unbearable.

    It’s perfectly matched to her smirking bitchface.

  110. Common Tater

    EXTREME WEATHER!!!!!!

    • Rebel Scum

      Seasons?

  111. The Late P Brooks

    Unions!

  112. UnCivilServant

    On a Non-political note, the Buck factory was interesting, if noisy.

    I got a deal on a limited edition S35VN steel 501 Squire folding knife for the price of the softer 420HC versions. It was a 2022 Limited Edition, so they were trying to offload the remainder. Regular retail was 3x the 420HC price.

    • MikeS

      My condolences on a working factory being noisy during your visit.

      • UnCivilServant

        I’m more sorry about the hearing damage those operators are risking. I was still someone deafened for a bit after leaving despite the earplugs.

      • rhywun

        Meow!

      • MikeS

        Unless they are flagrantly violating OSHA rules regarding PPE, I’m sure they will be fine.

      • UnCivilServant

        I don’t know what they were doing, I was focused more on the industrial processes.

        You’d have liked it.

      • MikeS

        I’m sure I would have. I look forward to hearing about it at HH. Did you get pictures?

      • UnCivilServant

        I asked, but Pictures are not allowed.

      • MikeS

        Not surprising, but disappointing. I guess I’ll have to try and get there myself. I bet it was a cool tour.

  113. The Other Kevin

    The Scott Adams show is going to be fun tomorrow.

  114. Rebel Scum

    Well, actually, Anthropogenic Climate Change, as a concept employed by the regime, is absolutely a hoax used to exact ever more control over the population, you dishonest, tyrannical cunte.

  115. robodruid

    I just dont see this changing anything.
    Who is undecided?
    It will be the GOV vs. Fraud.

    • The Other Kevin

      I have to remind myself this is just an exercise in confirmation bias.

    • Chafed

      You’re probably right. I only caught the last ten minutes. She wasn’t horrible. He isn’t great. From what I heard, few minds will be changed.

      • Drake

        Nope. It was a bum fight and your favorite bum obviously won

  116. The Other Kevin

    It would have been fun to see Vivek in this debate.

    • UnCivilServant

      He was too busy keeping a rock from falling on the city named after him.

      • groat scotum

        You nerd!

      • UnCivilServant

        You got the reference, what does that say about you?

      • groat scotum

        tbh I only got as far as ratting out the one guy on his stash… and fighting mud crabs… and finding the mage with the flying boots (?) who dies… and fighting cliff racers… and hating cliff racers… mostly hating cliff racers. That was twenty five years ago.

        I couldn’t get into Oblivion or Skyrim much, either. Loved the hell out of FO3 and 4, though.

    • Drake

      Oh yeah. I really do hope Vance gets a chance.

  117. The Late P Brooks

    What we need now is a live studio colosseum audience to give them both a thumbs-down verdict of death.

    • Chafed

      I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  118. Ownbestenemy

    “I only have one client….as a prosecutor, I only ask ‘are you okay'”…lets check the replay on that one..

    • Chafed

      I’d say Raven’s article debunked (prebunked?) that one.

    • Rebel Scum

      That’s not true. She’s had many clients. Many many clients.

  119. Common Tater

    Trump could have done much better.

    • Rebel Scum

      You try debating a system that is against you and everything you stand for.

      • Common Tater

        He knew that’s what he needed to do.

      • Rebel Scum

        You can have strategy. But numbers is a strategy all by itself. You can’t cover and counter dozens of lies per minute.

    • The Other Kevin

      Yes. He was all over and kept repeating things. There were good responses to every attack and he missed most of them.

  120. The Late P Brooks

    Team Harris declares victory.

    • Rebel Scum

      As does regime media.

      • MikeS

        Same thing

  121. Gustave Lytton

    Huh, blue blue blue. Blue lighting in the background. Blue laptops. Blue signage behind the panelist. Which team again?

  122. Gustave Lytton

    Post celebration with Walz. Another angry nagger.

  123. Gender Traitor

    I just watched the hometown minor league baseball team lose a playoff game – their first in seven years – by blowing their lead in the top of the ninth. Now they’d have to win two away games to advance. 😞

    Still less discouraging than the debate, as far as I can tell from your comments.

    • UnCivilServant

      So, you should have left after the 8th?

      • Gender Traitor

        Probably would have had an easier time getting out of downtown. Place was (predictably) packed.

  124. The Late P Brooks

    She has PLANS!

    Mostly, it’s basically a twelve year old’s “plan” to grow up and win the super bowl, but it’s a plan. Meanwhile, she wants to shower people with money conjured out of thin air. Why didn’t Trump mention that? Why didn’t he ask her where the money will come from?

    • Rebel Scum

      Plans to deceive and subjugate.

    • B.P.

      Because Trump sprays money out of a fire hose when given the opportunity, too.

  125. LCDR_Fish

    He did miss some really obvious hits on general policies from the last few years. Watched Razorfist’s stream – not too bad.

    Was hoping to vote early before travel, but I’m not driving back to the county seat from Norfolk after voting starts 20 Sep, so I guess I’ll have to swing a mail-in ballot.

    I did get a call on my cell from Gallup this afternoon. Normally I would have hung up immediately but figured today it might be a little more worthwhile – basically told him I hated everyone and that we needed better 3rd party options. Might have been better if I had messed with my demographics too….oh well.

  126. Brochettaward

    We need to sanctify our Firsters.

    • MikeS

      Ugh. Really? Sanka is the worst covfe I’ve ever had.

  127. Rebel Scum

    Anything is possible when you can spend an hour and a half lying without consequence, supported by the moderators/media/etc.

  128. Ownbestenemy

    CNN headline.

    The vice president calls out Trump for attacking her racial identity, equating it with his attacks on Obama’s birthplace

    Uh…I’m sure it was the moderators who asked that and set up. Same same I guess.

    • Rebel Scum

      Talking heads at CNN seem to think that Trump saying that Kammy can be whatever she wants is racist. There is no winning with these dishonest assholes.

      • Ownbestenemy

        I’d assume Team Trump knew this

  129. creech

    Word is Harris is now proposing another debate. Obviously, and with some merit, she thinks she won and can do so again.

    • Ownbestenemy

      Mistake really. These are swinging what? <1-5% of any demo

    • hayeksplosives

      Trump should agree to one moderated by Musk on X Spaces.

      Harris team will cry foul because Musk is clearly a Trump supporter.

      Trump could then rightly question what the difference would be between that and what happened tonight with ABC.

  130. Q Continuum

    The betting markets don’t think it went as badly for Trump apparently as you guys do. Trump lost 2 points but it still ahead. After the Biden debate debacle, he dropped 25 points immediately after the debate ended. So the bookies apparently consider the debate a wash, which I think it was likely always going to be unless one or the other of them absolutely self-destructed (like Biden did). I didn’t watch (see above) but based on descriptions it sounds like it went as one would expect: Kommie-la lied her ass off and the moderators covered for her, Trump rambled but also didn’t score any major own goals.

    • Mojeaux

      Betting markets clearly aren’t taking election fortification into account.

  131. J. Frank Parnell

    I didn’t watch the debate.

    Did Trump have any standout insult or quote like “nasty woman” or “she persisted” or anything that the Harris campaign will put on T-shirts that all the AWFLs will be wearing by this weekend?

  132. Chafed

    How can I take that seriously when you haven’t provided pics of scantily clad politicians?

    • UnCivilServant

      *Insert puking Emoji Here*

    • Rebel Scum

      I only want to see some Boebert yogurt and my girl Anna Paulina Luna.

      • slumbrew

        I’d be ok with Saana Marin, but she may not count. I think she’s jus doing Only Fans now.

      • Chafed

        I thought Boebert was pretty until I saw that back tattoo. I’m with you on Luna.

      • Gustave Lytton

        You are a man of taste, Chafed. I was very disappointed by the ink.

  133. Rebel Scum

    According to CNN, Trump told a million lies and Harris only told one, little off-white false-claim.

    Why don’t you trust the media?

    • Suthenboy

      You can trust them now. CNN restored their journalistic integrity by re-hiring Bryan Stelter.

  134. hayeksplosives

    Taylor Swift just officially endorsed “Gifted leader” Kamala Harris, signing her statement “Childless Car Lady”.

    Ugh. The parade of smug, shallow celebrities fawning over Kamala’s empty suit is sickening.

    • Gustave Lytton

      Well, they both used their personal relationships to get where they are today

  135. hayeksplosives

    Kamala Harris official Xaittwr account just posted “Donald Trump has no plan for you.”

    I’m sure her staffers think that’s a brilliant tweet, but it creeps me all the way out, because it implies “Kamala Harris has a plan for you.”

    —shudder—

    • rhywun

      Her flock eats that shit up.

      *plotz*

  136. pistoffnick (370HSSV)

    Why do “YOU PEOPLE” and “you people” put yourselves through this?
    Why not enjoy what you have?
    Why not increase what you have?
    Why do you give a fuck what theses two fucktards debate about?
    I doubt Donald Trump cares about me and my 7.6 acres of swamp in northern Minnesoda.
    I doubt Kamala Harris cares about me and my 7.6 acres of swamp in northern Minnesoda.
    Fuck them both. I’ll slay them in hell.

    /not voting
    /the last laugh is on me

    • UnCivilServant

      I bet she does.

      How dare you own land, you vile kulak!

      • pistoffnick (370HSSV)

        I’ll slay them both in hell.

      • pistoffnick (370HSSV)

        …I bet she does.

        I don’t think she gives a fuck what a lone anarchists (me) in northern Minnesoda thinks. And I think that is part of the problem. I don’t think Republicans give a fuck either.

    • Rebel Scum

      “my 7.6 acres”

      That ain’t your, comrade.

    • Plinker762

      You say swamp, the US GOV says navigable waters of the US

  137. hayeksplosives

    Former NFL QB Robert Griffin III just tweeted
    “Ayyy man is Donald Trump darker than Kamala Harris or is it just my TV?”

    😂🤣

    Of course because RGIII is a Black man yet doesn’t support Kamala, he gets called sexist.

  138. Rebel Scum

    Vance dismantled that Kaitlyn chick on CNN.

    Then the rest of those cuntes covered for her by lying about the circumstances of the cat/duck memes because MUH-RACISM.

    But, bro, trust the media and institutions, bro.

  139. KSuellington

    Tonite may have been a black cat event. It could very well lead to a new movement, MeowToo. The childless cat lady vote is now in play.

    • rhywun

      I can’t wait for the next pussy hat march on DC.

    • Plinker762

      The future of the human race depends on childless cat ladies.

  140. PieInTheSky

    So who won tell me EVERYTHING

    • rhywun

      Everyone loses.

    • Sean

      No.

  141. Gustave Lytton

    The only reason Biden lost the last debate was some saw an opportunity to remove him. If the decision was to keep him, the MSM would have covered as hard for him as they are now for Harris.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Possibly BUT there’s limits to their spin and that was well past those limits but, you’re right, in retrospect it was a trap. If he didn’t fall completely on his face it would’ve been spun as a validation of a sharp mental state and if he didn’t he would be replaced by an uberleftist blank slate which is what happened. She, as a person and policywise, is far more palatable to them anyway.

  142. Gustave Lytton

    Also, Kentucky Spirit is outstanding.

    • PieInTheSky

      Oh not it isn’t

      • Gustave Lytton

        You need to check the warehouse it comes from. Camp Nelson all the way.

  143. Suthenboy

    Good morning all. No use in fretting too much about all of this. One way or another we are all doomed in the end.

    My take, albeit late to the point of belated: The vast majority of human beings live in perpetual fear. They find existence itself to be terrifying. They are craven cowards who flock together for protection and long with every fiber of their being for a savior. The two worst things you can say to them is 1) No one is going to save you, good does not always win out in the end. If you are going to be saved and good triumph you have to step up and do it yourself.
    2) Everything is not about you.

    With that I am going to watch silly dog videos and drink some tea. I have Earl Grey and some black tea with caramel and vanilla. I will try both yet again because I haven’t decided which I like better.

    • Ted S.

      Narrator: Coffee is better.

      • Suthenboy

        Mrs. Suthenboy is awake now. Coffee is being consumed. Also, she made a huge loaf of bread yesterday afternoon. We are both having large slices now toasted and buttered.

        *I have tea before she wakes. I start the coffee maker when she does.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Those truths don’t win elections and voicing them will see you relegated to political irrelevance. It’s why we have to pick the liar that’ll cause the least damage.

    • Gender Traitor

      Good morning, ‘patzie, Stinky, rhy, Sean, Ted’S., and Suthen!

      • rhywun

        Mornin’.

  144. Stinky Wizzleteats

    *groan*
    Seems like the Donald would have prepared better for the debate with prison on the line but it is what it is. So what’s a good investment strategy for price controls, the Green Energy economy, and 401K confiscation because we’re gonna need one.

    Somebody cheer me up though, do normal people, people who unlike us don’t really follow politics and vote with their gut, really pay attention to debates?

    • rhywun

      I think only undecideds pay any attention and I hope they look beyond stupid, obviously biased debates.

    • Sean

      It changes nothing.

      CommaLa is still a commie whore. Congress is still full of lying cunts. We are still fucked no matter what.

      Have a nice day. 😂😂

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        Oh I know we’re fucked either way, math and exonomics don’t care about party affiliations after all, it’d just be better to cruise into fuckitude with someone who doesn’t hate my guts in the presidency. We may as well put that Brazilian judge in charge if she actually does win.

      • rhywun

        That’s the spirit.

  145. Old Man With Candy

    Obligatory- but true: very nice piece.

    During last night’s trainwreck, I was texting with some friends. The very best takes came from an old friend from the Reason days, Grand Moff/Serious Man.

    “It’s who he is, an emotionally retarded toddler. He deserves the humiliation of losing to Harris. He’s getting a raw deal from the flagrant favoritism shown towards Harris by the moderators, but any mentally competent Republican pol would be able to hammer Harris for not answering any of the questions.”

    Over a year ago, I made election bets with Heroic Mulatto, Sloopy, and Spud. Biden was still running (or pre-running, the campaigns hadn’t kicked in) and I bet that Harris would win the next presidential election. Logic was that Biden would either die or be outed as too senile. Score for OMWC. And that Trump would be absolutely unable to control himself and self-immolate in irrelevant tantrums. Score again for OMWC.

    I prefer my winnings in clean, crisp, new $20 bills.

    • Old Man With Candy

      Downside: I was supposed to meet up with a very attractive and bright lady next week. We’d had some really fun PM conversations and seemed like we were clicking. She started texting me during the debates, calling Harris “masterful,” “Wonderful,” “Brilliant,” “FABULOUS.” Sigh.

      Well, Camelhead owns the AWFL set.

      • robodruid

        …. so stunning… so brave….

    • rhywun

      Grand Moff/Serious Man

      Vaguely remember that guy.

      an emotionally retarded toddler

      lol Absolutely.

      I came across a take last night, some words to the effect of, “If the GOP had chosen Desantis he’d be up by double digits now.”

      I wonder. The conventional wisdom was that he “tanked”, he has “no charisma”, and such. I wasn’t buying it then, and it seemed like a fix was in.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        DeSantis is a (mostly) solid governor with a kind of anti charisma. He may have done better in this specific debate but overall he wouldn’t be doing any better and very possibly worse.

      • rhywun

        Which is bananas because there are one or two leftists who admit that Harris has zero charisma.

      • Gustave Lytton

        That take is right up there with “I’d vote R if they’d just nominate a reasonable candidate”. DeSantis would be smeared just as hard as every other Republican candidate in my lifetime. The landscape is shifted. Between the long march through the institutions and the brides of the state (what’s the male equivalent? Wards of the state?), the constituency for the party of the welfare state is enormous.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        If you’re the kind of person that likes being herded by a shrill schoolmarm, and there are plenty out there by the way, Harris is very charismatic. Her goose would have been cooked if they had run any kind of true primary to replace Biden though but with the way it was set up she’s golden.

  146. Ownbestenemy

    The Onion
    @TheOnion
    FACT CHECK
    TRUMP: “People don’t leave my rallies.”
    TRUE: They’re carried out in body bags.

    I mean…that’s the Onion of old. Crass, but well played.

  147. Raven Nation

    *checks comment count on front page *

    Wow! My post really inspired comments!

    *checks comments*

    Ahh

    /jk. Grateful to be published

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      It was a good article that unfortunately posted before a fairly big news story.

    • Gustave Lytton

      Set your next article for Tue night 11/5 and watch the meter run.

      Thank you, btw, Prof RN.

  148. Not Adahn

    Good morning!

    Have GMSM and Kibbe outbred the Spicers yet?

    • Old Man With Candy

      No progeny to date.