Hoarders vs Code Enforcement

by | Aug 30, 2022 | KHAAAAAANNN!!!, Libertarianism, Liberty, Musings | 220 comments

I watch hoarders programs because they make me feel good about my shoddy housekeeping. (Well, really, I have much better things to do than housework.) But it makes me feel superior because Iā€™m not like them.

More often than not, the impetus for a hoarder to clean up is code enforcement agencies. They find out through EMS (who canā€™t get through the hoard to the patient) or neighbors (who have to look at it and/or smell it and/or deal with the vermin such hoards attract and the attendant lowering of property values) or loved ones (who are concerned and/or pissed off). Sometimes children are involved. Sometimes animals are victims of the hoard. (For the purposes of this article, I will not address DFS or animal control involvement.)

Enter the need for redress and resolution, if not recompense, and following that need, code enforcement.

Like the EPAā€™s existence, I can see why code enforcement would be a necessary evil to some extent. But the more I watched, I increasingly wondered how Libertopia would deal with the problem of one person imposing his problem on neighbors and/or loved ones.

I asked this on the zooms with Hyperbole, westernsloper, and MikeS. MikeS made the point that if I, a neighbor having to look at/smell/exterminate vermin caused by someone using their property as they see fit, act by calling code enforcement after direct requests to clean up have failed, I am imposing my will upon someone else to do what I want them to do.

FREE WILL

But the neighbor has already imposed his will upon me and I canā€™t do anything but submit.

Let us put aside a nature-versus-nurture discussion of the concept of free will because thatā€™s a rabbit hole I havenā€™t been able to dig myself out of yet. However, what I do want to explore is what happens when your will is imposed upon by someone else to your detriment. It happens all the time. A car accident where youā€™re not at fault. A high-maintenance family member. A health scare that turns real. A family who moves in next door to you and junks up their property, bringing the whole neighborhoodā€™s property values down.

None of these are things predicated on decisions you made, acts you committed. You cannot act. You are forced to react, which is not the power position, and so you feel powerless to change the situation.

Letā€™s take the case of the new neighbor. It takes a while to junk up the property, but there are signs that itā€™s going to get worse and itā€™s not going to get better. You either talk to the neighbor or you call your HOA president, if there is one. The neighbors either donā€™t answer their door, give you a line, or get nasty, or the HOA sends a notice.

Now hereā€™s the rub: They ignore you. They ignore the HOA. They have nothing to lose because there are no real consequences. When you get right down to it, an HOA has no teeth. You, personally, are powerless to stop this impending hoard that will eventually bring with it stink and filth and vermin that will leach over into your property. Once the wiring gets eaten by rodents all it will take to set it (and possibly you) ablaze is a spark and a piece of paper too close to an outlet and the chance of fire is greater if they smoke. The value of every house in your neighborhood has tanked, especially yours, and even if you wanted to sell to get away from the neighbor, youā€™d take a bath. Everyone on the block is affected and not one of you can do anything about it.

HI. Iā€™M FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND Iā€™M HERE TO HELP.

Code enforcement can do something, but will they? And how long will it take?

On the TV shows, when code enforcement is involved, they have already been involved for months and years to give the neighbor time to clean up. Maybe theyā€™ve already condemned the house. Maybe theyā€™ve slapped fines on the neighbor (which he hasnā€™t paid). Maybe the neighbor has done jail time, which doesnā€™t faze him in the least bit.

Almost no one in this scenario has a TV producer to call and magically Matt Paxton will show up to dish out basic wisdom (ā€œWeā€™re all 5 bad decisions away from shitting in a bucket.ā€) while he shovels out a hoarder house and grounds and the hoarder is picking through urine- and feces-encrusted hand-knit baby blankets lovingly made for people who are now 43 years old.

In reality, the neighbor is not only unwilling to clean out his hoard, but he is likely unable to.

GALTā€™S GULCH

Naturally, in Libertopia we would not have this problem because all libertarians participate voluntarily within the confines of a set of rules we have agreed upon and carry out faithfully. We pay for fire service. We pay for police service. We pay for animal control. We pay for muh roadz. Everything is voluntary, so things like code enforcement donā€™t exist because itā€™s an agency and we donā€™t like agencies in Libertopia.

And then a hoarder who is not particularly interested in participating in voluntarism moves in next door to you. After all, we arenā€™t keeping people out. Before you know it, youā€™ve got roaches in your house. Sure, they signed the rules, but they simply donā€™t care. You can get the courts involved, but again, they ignore the judgment. Maybe you send collections after them. Ā They dodge the dunning.

Now youā€™re in a blinding rage because your will is being encroached upon by someone else and you are powerless.

My contention, that lovely night on the zooms, is that the logical conclusion of these two competing free wills, sans some governing/intervening body, sans some reasonable recourse and redress, is that somebodyā€™s gonna get shot.

Discuss.

About The Author

Mojeaux

Mojeaux

Aspiring odalisque.

220 Comments

  1. R.J.

    Perhaps a seizure of property to recompense at the point where all other recourses have been ignored?

    And maybe a duel.

  2. KK the Porcine Pearl-Eater

    Neighbors get together and form a pitchfork mob, except with guns. Neighbors either proceed to remove the exterior junk on their own, or hire junk movers that will be protected by said pitchfork mob. The neighbors can sell whatever there is of value to compensate.

    But yeah, someone may end up gettin shot.

    • straffinrun

      Yep. There’s a point where the BS ends or your just a sap.

  3. MikeS

    Discuss.

    You’re not my supervisor!

    • Mojeaux

      It would be terribly easy to light it up with no one the wiser.

  4. The Late P Brooks

    I had to bounce pass that link by the server error skwerl.

  5. The Bearded Hobbit

    Excellent article. Libertopia is the goal. Human nature is the reality.

    When I take a walk around my neighborhood I can count around 15 abandoned cars in just 1/4 mile. My next door neighbor has 4, at least one of which has been there since we moved in 35 years ago. Yet our subdivision is considered “upscale” with houses typically selling for $300k or more. I figure that the theoretical loss of value is offset by my unwillingness to confront my neighbors.

    I figure I’ll live here until I die. Let the kids figure it out.

  6. rhywun

    LOL that featured image is one packed hoard.

    Good stuff & I believe I mentioned that I too have a problem with relying on the “authorities” to take care of these people but I don’t have a better answer.

    I dunno if killin’ is the appropriate response, but… I get the urge.

  7. hayeksplosives

    Here in Pahrump itā€™s common to drive past a few beautiful newish houses (probably 300k to 500k) then immediately a trailer home in what has essentially become a junkyard, then another big nice house, then a couple of well kept trailer homes. Thereā€™s just no zoning in larges stretches.

    The key is to buy a big enough lot that you donā€™t care too much.

    My house is in an HOA neighborhood that is pretty well policed. They levy fines if ā€œviolationsā€ arenā€™t corrected, and I think they can even begin eviction proceedings but Iā€™m not sure that would stand up in court.

    In any group of humans there are some real losers, which is why the early American colonies that tried to have a Book of Acts like community didnā€™t work. They eventually changed to private ownership and donā€™t work, donā€™t eat.

  8. Tundra

    People who don’t take care of their shit irritate me. It always seems like one asshole in the neighborhood who can’t be arsed to create a pleasant environment. Why the fuck would you buy a 500K home and shit it up?

    Not libertarian and I’m not sure what the solution is.

    • rhywun

      People who donā€™t take care of their shit irritate me.

      Amen. I’m disgusted by how many Americans in general shit on their surroundings (over and above hoarding which is seemingly a sickness of some sort). Just random shit that irritates me. My pet peeve is people who just throw their garbage on the sidewalk. “Oh, someone else will clean that up.”

      It was impressed on me after living overseas in a country where there is a very different attitude about this stuff.

      • Chafed

        That sort of thing really pushes my urge to kill button. No, it isn’t someone else’s job to clean up your mess.

      • rhywun

        That pic looks ’shopped to death but I get the sentiment. Clean up after yourself.

      • Not Adahn

        Meh. I haven’t put in a lawn. I’m sure my neighbors are seething, but I specifically bought a wooded lot because I want to live in the woods, not a meadow.

      • UnCivilServant

        And if they choose not to sell?

  9. Ted S.

    My guess is Galt’s Gulch would deal with it by shunning.

    • Ted S.

      Or Galt would subject the scofflaws to speeches so long they’d just leave.

  10. Zwak. And once again, the mall is his Waterloo

    This tension is what drives civilization and its intended laws, codes, and enforcement. Literally, this is politics in a nutshell.

    In my late 20s, I dated a girl who had just inherited her father’s home, in a very nice and expensive part of California, a place where a two and one will go for around 800K. She hadn’t been inside for a good 10 years, as her father always met her some other place. Well, when he died and passed it along, she found out why: he was a hoarder. Little paths around the rooms, multiple of everything, and you know the rest. So bad it was damaging the foundation and was condemned. He had been a prison guard and translator for the state and did very well financially, but that had nothing to do with it. It was just kinda sad.

    Now, my wife is now starting to be enraged with a neighbor’s “clutter” so to speak. We have no fence on one side of our property, and the neighbor, who has a double lot with a permanently working on “shop” right up to the easement, keeps some things between that building and our property: scaffolding mostly, but some other junk. Now, he has been working on the building the whole time we have owned here and has had to renew his building permit several times as he only buys materials when they show up on Craigslist. And this building is packed with a half-dozen cars, campers, motorcycles, and who knows whatnot. A nice guy, but his junk is spreading, and I know (he told me) he didn’t have water in half of the main house for years because he wouldn’t call a plumber and couldn’t figure out how to fix it himself. So, it’s already starting down the path. I know he is much older than I (he’s retired, as is his wife) so the chances of them being there when we need to sell is small, but it is still a chance. So my wife, who is the most stubborn person I know, is starting to spend money on visual barriers to this junk when I basic fence would both be cheaper and look better, but she is somehow convinced that it wouldn’t match the other fencing around the other side of the property or something. In other words, she has affixed in her mind that this solution is the best thing.

    I am starting to pull my hair out on this. Not that I had any.

    • Chafed

      Maybe bite the bullet and put in all new fencing.

      • Zwak. And once again, the mall is his Waterloo

        That was my first thought, but the wife has dug in her heels on this, for some unknown reason.

        And I know damn well that in the end, no matter how much she spends on decorative things to block the view, I will still have to put up a fence.

  11. The Hyperbole

    We can’t “all” be five bad decisions away from shitting in a bucket, some of us must have already made three or four of them, and, while I hope no glibs (well, there is this one guy), are there yet some people already shit in a bucket.

    • KK the Porcine Pearl-Eater

      My RV toilet is a glorified bucket.

      • Mojeaux

        If you can swing it with what power you get, get an incinerating toilet. If you can’t draw that much power, try a composting toilet.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        There is a system that will take your sewage and insert it into the RV exhaust system. Seems very reasonable and environmentally responsible to me.

      • Brochettaward

        I don’t want to be breathing your shit fumes.

      • Chafed

        Then stop sucking tailpipes.

    • rhywun

      I’ve been one or two bad decisions away.

      • The Hyperbole

        I’m probably at about 3 right now, been to 2, usually stay at about 4.

    • Rat on a train

      I already shat in a bucket when I was in the Army. Well it was actually a small, office trash can we lined with trash bags. Soldiers on shit detail were the ones that had to collect all the bags to take to the incinerator.

      • Penguin
  12. Timeloose

    Mojo,

    Timely article. Iā€™ve been on the other end of this argument. Iā€™m attempting to build on a property I own and have spent the last 4 months just addressing codes and code related activities.

    What Iā€™m going through provides no value to my property, the town, or county I live in.

    Like most things in this nation there has been a slow creep of others expecting the government to do their dirty work when it comes to settling neighborhood disputes. This had lead to mission creep from ensuring that homeowners donā€™t personally have to deal with neighborsā€™s hoarding, vermin infestation, and dangerously unsafe properties. To where nothing can be done without permission.

    I also do not wish to restrict another personā€™s actions or activities until it affects me and my property physically. This means danger, damage, infestation, or the ability to enjoy my own space.

    I would like to personally address these concerns and I do regularly when necessary. When violence is the only way to address it then thatā€™s where some entity like a government is needed.

    If this was the US of 150 years ago the people could address it, but today the only option is to live far from others or accept the minimum amount of government possible and build in checks and resets to keep it limited.

    My town needs a reset.

    Kaaaahnnnn!!!

  13. straffinrun

    None of these are things predicated on decisions you made, acts you committed.

    Let’s say someone gets on the elevator after you, lets a giant fart rip and then gives you a “Oh, yeah? What are you gonna do about it?” look. Let’s say that person then does that every day for a month. Yes, you get to pepper spray them in the face.

    • Mojeaux

      Are you the farter or the fartee?

    • The Hyperbole

      After a few days I’d think you’d get out of the elevator if this guy gets in.

      Or you could take the stairs,

    • Rat on a train

      The trick is to let it rip just before you exit the elevator.

    • The Bearded Hobbit

      “Once is happenstance. Twice is circumstance. The third time is enemy action.”
      — Ian Fleming

    • Penguin

      “I only wanted to share my essence with you.”

    • Timeloose

      You make sure you really like itā€¦like really like it one day. He will start avoiding you. If he doesnā€™t, then a subtle stink bomb might do the trick.

      By the way a friend of mine calls farting audibly in someone elseā€™s office while they are there ā€œthe power playā€.

    • hayeksplosives

      He is functionally retarded, isnā€™t he?

      • straffinrun

        That’s a bit too much, HE. I wouldn’t go as far as calling it “functionally”.

      • Dr. Fronkensteen

        He was never a bright person to begin with. Now heā€™s just mush brained.

  14. Brochettaward

    A Firster always settles his own debts and grievances.

  15. The Late P Brooks

    There’s a song playing on Pandora right now. I have no idea what it is or who sings it, but I have always heard the chorus in my head as, “I don’t wanna argue, I just wanna fuck.”

    • straffinrun

      That video does not look like someone is getting “oral sex”.

      • DrOtto

        That’s a reference to another incident last week…

      • Fourscore

        They don’t appear to be fans, they’re not paying attention to the game.

    • Sean

      ” but police say no charges were laid. ”

      Hmm…

  16. The Hyperbole

    That’d be a first.

    • Brochettaward

      You don’t know what First is.

      • The Hyperbole

        Thank the Great Firster for that.

      • rhywun

        I don’t know why but this exchange just made me LOL.

        Perhaps it’s the complete lack of context, or meaning. Maybe it’s a koan whose meaning is just out of grasp.

  17. robc

    Externalities.

    When your smell or vermin affect neighbors, you are violating the NAP.

    • Not Adahn

      Smell is a tragedy of the commons issue.

      Vermin however is not something that you are powerless o respond to, and unless there’s some sort of maintain the status quo agreement between yourself and your neighbor, not a violation of anything.

  18. Gender Traitor

    I watch hoarders programs because they make me feel good about my shoddy housekeeping.

    A visit to my home might have the same effect. Or it might make you gasp hard enough to swallow your tonsils.

    (Well, really, I have much better things to do than housework.)

    **Pffft** Who doesn’t?

    But it makes me feel superior because Iā€™m not like them.

    I used to watch Cops for the same reason way back when my life particularly sucked. “I may be divorced and in a job I hate and living in an apartment that just got burglarized, but at least I didn’t drive drunk and get my car stuck sideways on railroad tracks when I tried to make a U-turn.”

    I’d like to consider this topic dispassionately, but it’s a little too close to home at the moment – one of my sisters is a (borderline?) crazy cat lady. (Definitely a cat lady. The “crazy” part is open to definition and debate.) My other sister & her hubby have been dealing with it more directly, trying to tough love her out of too many cats and too much clutter. I haven’t gone to see the scene of the crime. (I’m a bad sister.) I have a hard time with the idea of “ordering around” an older sister. Her situation is less “problematic” from a libertarian perspective – she doesn’t own the house she’s trashing and may be in real danger of being evicted, with good cause. This is the sister I with whom I peacefully shared a bedroom all my life until she went off to college (and for a short time after I graduated from college.) Now I shudder at the thought of living with her.

    • rhywun

      I’ve probably shared this story before but my mom – an anti-hoarder if there ever was one – nipped any such tendencies in the bud for me one day when I arrived home from school and the entire contents of my bedroom were heaped into a pile in the middle of the room. Dirty dishes, discarded candy wrappers, probably a filched library book or two, you name it.

      I’m still a lazy slob but there’s no clutter.

      • Gender Traitor

        I don’t mind “clean clutter” – lots of stuff, but not of an unsanitary nature. I think I may actually be more comfortable in such a condition than in a sparse, tidy room. I tell people I’m “clutter blind.”

      • rhywun

        Good point, yeah “clean clutter” is fine. Living alone and with no critters human or non-human running around, I just don’t generate clutter.

      • rhywun

        Moving cross-country twice in two years probably helped. I shed a lot of crap at both ends.

        I am, sadly, “hoarding” fifteen or so years worth of dead computers – I guess four of them now with the latest death occurring last week – that I’m too lazy to discard. None of them will start but I’m afraid to throw them out because ID theft.

      • Zwak. And once again, the mall is his Waterloo

        I am definitely a “clean clutter” person. I love a packed house, but not a filthy one.

    • Mojeaux

      ā€œI may be divorced and in a job I hate and living in an apartment that just got burglarized, but at least I didnā€™t drive drunk and get my car stuck sideways on railroad tracks when I tried to make a U-turn.ā€

      I hear you, sister.

  19. DrOtto

    While not hoarders, we had junkie neighbors that got a dog when we were kids. That dog howled and barked all night in their back yard. My dad had enough. First he went to the neighbor (at 3:00 in the morning) the neighbor protested that the dog keeps them up if they let him in the house. So he called the cops, the cops said they couldn’t/wouldn’t do anything about it. So then my dad called the neighbor’s landlord, also at 3:00 in the morning. The calls to the landlord continued till the dog just disappeared one night. The neighbor kids told my sister “your dad killed our dog.” I recently asked my dad about that accusation. He said, the dog probably was killed, buy not by him. The owner probably did it only after being threatened with eviction and blamed my dad to the kids, because in the owner’s mind, it was my dad’s fault.

    • Festus

      Sitting in the chair on display, watching the milfs jog away… Neighborhood has turned over once again. The best part about milfs is that they keep getting younger but I still stay the same age! Alright Alright Alright…

      • Chafed

        šŸ‘

    • rhywun

      While not hoarders, we had junkie neighbors

      I’m not sure which is worse. Though, I guess they could be clean junkies.

      • Chafed

        Is there really such a thing?

  20. Timeloose

    Speaking of garbage and vermin. My 20minute commute turned into a 2:20 commute due to a visit by President Poopy Pants.

    Entire interstate as well as every exit and bridge blockaded for 15 miles.

    • rhywun

      You’d think with Democracyā„¢ at risk he’d be better off staying in his basement.

  21. Fourscore

    I’m rather prissy about my outside yard. I don’t want anything outside over night unless it’s a visitor’s car and even that maybe I can find garage space for. I can’t see my neighbors nor can they see me but some have a few collectibles outside but usually only the work tools, tractors and equipment sort of thing.

    I do have a good friend that stores his extra stuff outside, like junked cars, boats, tractors but they’ve become invisible to him. None of his neighbors can see his stuff though.

    Now inside my garages I’m messy, cluttered but not junk, only things that don’t get used often. Inside the house we don’t seem to have enough room for the missus clothes and kitchen equipment and they tend to get neatly stacked in the bedroom and occasionally in the living room, temporarily. Not hoarding, just too much.

    My son from Austin is visiting and keeps commenting on the lack of traffic and noise. He now can understand why I choose to leave TX. The winters are such that a lot of people avoid the North Country.

    • R C Dean

      ā€œThe winters are such that a lot of people avoid the North Country.ā€

      *raises hand*

    • Zwak. And once again, the mall is his Waterloo

      “… but theyā€™ve become invisible to him.”

      I think that describes my neighbor. I don’t particularly care, as it isn’t my property. But the wife, hoo boy!

    • MikeS

      The winters are such that a lot of people avoid the North Country.

      It keeps the riff-raff outā„¢ (Not a reference to R C Dean)

      The cold also keeps the vast majority of poisonous snakes and reptiles away.

      • MikeS

        The cold also keeps the vast majority of poisonous snakes bugs and reptiles away.

      • rhywun

        It’s been out of control bugs here this summer – way worse that most years. I need this season to end now kthxbai

      • MikeS

        We’ve now fully entered cricket season. Oy vey. The good part is fly and mosquito season is waning.

      • one true athena

        Had ants show up in my pantry today.

        On top of dealing with the water leak my son neglected to mention to anyone for weeks, if not months. No, dummy, water pooling on the floor is NOT normal. Please tell someone about such things.

      • Not Adahn

        I thought cricket was played year-round?

  22. Dr. Fronkensteen

    The neighbor of my high school sweetheart was a drug dealer. They complained to the cops but the cops said didnā€™t have enough evidence to do anything and my girlfriendā€™s family didnā€™t want to risk themselves getting the evidence on him. One day a 15 year old girl showed up at the house and was allowed to stay in return for ā€œfavorsā€. The parents of the girl had hired a private investigator to find the girl. He gave the information to the cops who went in and found the drugs and 15 year girl was with him. He was not seen again and the house was sold.

  23. whiz

    Mrs. Whiz and I are not hoarders (honest!), but we do have my stuff, her stuff from when she moved in, stuff from her office when she moved her office to our home (many desks, chairs, file cabinets), and finally stuff from my mom from when she passed away (from a 2-bedroom apartment). Half the formal living room is now her home office. Fortunately we have an 1869 sq.ft. basement, which absorbed most of the rest of it. With a little work we can make the upstairs look very presentable for company, but we don’t generally let people see the basement.

    • R C Dean

      Why not sell (most of) whatā€™s in the basement?

      • Chafed

        Because whiz is a hoarder.

  24. MikeS

    Great article, Mo’. It was a lively Zoom and a fun convo. Glad it inspired you to write this.

    • Fourscore

      The article makes us think but also realize that we should be happy when we don’t have that neighbor.

      • Mojeaux

        All my current neighbors and we are tidy. However, the neighbor to my immediate east is a nosy sumbitch. I had to ask my landlord if he had any kind of relationship with him because I’m about to get rude about his questioning us.

      • MikeS

        Yup. Hence why I went the same route as you and bought a place where you can’t see or hear -except gunshots- the neighbors.

    • Mojeaux

      šŸ™‚

  25. hayeksplosives

    Huh. Iā€™m surprised that Drudge hasnā€™t linked to a story about Gorbachevā€™s passing.

    • Chipping Pioneer

      TBH I thought Gorbachev waa dead already.

      • Chipping Pioneer

        Insert Lou Reed joke here.

      • MikeS

        Do not joke about Lou Reed. He’s a living legend.

  26. MikeS

    Headlines:

    WSJ: Mikhail Gorbachev, Reformer of Soviet Union, Dies at 91 šŸ‘šŸ»

    Reuters: Mikhail Gorbachev, who ended the Cold War, dies aged 91 šŸ™„

    • Chafed

      Does Brian Stelter now write Reuters’ headlines?

    • Rat on a train

      Hirohito ended World War 2.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Headlines of varying inaccuracy but as Soviet Premiers go he was a good egg. RIP.

    • Not Adahn

      That’s NPR’s take on it too (ended the Cold War).

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        To a minor extent, I’ll agree with NPR on this one. He had the option to take everyone down with him, but chose to relent instead.

        I can only hope that our own government knows when to quit. (I crack myself up)

  27. Gustave Lytton

    Not a hoarder, but I do have too much and too much clutter. Working on it.

    This happened Sunday at the grocery store about two blocks away from my hotel. I shopped there two weeks ago when I was here last.

    Store is closed so when to another, which happened to be in the same chain. Armed security guard patrolling inside the store. Pretty sure it’s not due to the location. And they were soliciting donations to help victims at the POS terminal. It seems to me that these sort of appeals are far too automatic. Tragedy, give money! Give for what? Well, for good uses and we’ll figure it out later. Seems to me this is a poor substitute for what should be community and a (non-government) support system. Those days are long gone I think.

    • Gustave Lytton

      This is another one I know the location. I’ve gone here a bunch of times to their testing center. The building where is happened was razed, if I remember correctly. Small campus in a semi rural location just off the river. I happened to be working that night just south of there, saw the news trucks setting up just off the freeway exit for there. More in the morning from the national networks.

  28. Chafed

    Interesting article Moe. Let me pick up the point about a hoarder who dodges a dunning order. In my version of Libertopia the instrument of the offense is available to satisfy a damages award. So, the hoarder who attracts vermin and creates other problems for his neighbors could have his house seized and sold if his other assets are unavailable to satisfy the judgment.

  29. KSuellington

    I have been inside more hoarder apartments and houses than I can count. Itā€™s a bit more common than most people would think. Many of these were ā€œcleanā€ hoard houses where the primary hoarding was of books, papers, magazines, tapes, etc. They still are not clean, and usually smell, but they are not of the same degree as those who hoard animals and wet garbage. Those are some of the foulest places imaginable, and I can picture details I saw inside them many years later.

    My brother actually lives in one of the worst hoarder homes Iā€™ve ever been in. He has made it into something that could be in an architectural magazine now. The owners before him were a 400 lb mother and son team that didnā€™t pay the garbage bill for so long they cut them off. They would just toss the copious amount of takeout food bags and utensils to the side. It was literally seven to eight feet piled high with wet garbage and dog shit everywhere. The smell was like a living entity. The rats had a rat problem. When they sold the house to my brother some guy charged them 14 grand to clean it all out.

  30. Chafed

    And your brother thought it was a bargain.

    • Chafed

      Brooks’d it.

    • KSuellington

      It was indeed a bargain, and since he is s a general contractor he did a lot of the work himself. It was so brutal when the previous owners were there that I had a hard assed hauler buddy of mine go by there to have a look about getting rid of their shit. He didnā€™t even make it all the way in the house before turning around and running outside to gag. He turned it down knowing it was a five figure job. They owned the house outright so after paying off their delinquent taxes and bills from escrow they had a large pile of cash left over. They bought a beautiful house in northern Marin (son showed me the pictures) that I can only imagine what it looks like now a couple years later.

  31. Ownbestenemy

    Ill admit, at work I am a hoarder. Maybe the technical side in me but its hard to give up “that one thing” that may be useful later. My boss used to complain that I keep too much stuff in my office but it was a daily occurrence when someone would walk by and say “OBE, do you have?”

    • Chafed

      It’s not hoarding if someone uses the stuff.

  32. PieInTheSky

    My contention, that lovely night on the zooms, is that the logical conclusion of these two competing free wills, sans some governing/intervening body, sans some reasonable recourse and redress, is that somebodyā€™s gonna get shot. – my view of non-anarchistic libertarianism is that there are courts of law and if someone’s actions on their property affects your property, within some constraints set by the general position of the community, precedent etc, you go to court and sue.

  33. PieInTheSky

    Funny thing about code enforcement is that the left currently portray libertarianism as a wasteland, but elements of the left 100 years ago more accurately presented codes as a more efficient version instead of everyone suing everyone all the time.

  34. PieInTheSky

    Also, given the topic and the penchant of some libertarians to name drop Ronald Coase and transaction costs, I am surprised no one mentioned Ronald Coase in the comments.

  35. PieInTheSky

    This was a shit fucking morning. I was walking to work and it suddenly started pouring rain. I mean a fuckton of water. I had to find shelter and spend 35 minutes like a moron waiting for the rain to slow down enough. I did not have an umbrella as my phone this morning did not predict rain. I reached work 30 minutes later than I wanted and wet. Lucky I had a spare shirt with me, because I tend to swat when I walk and I change my shirt for work.

    • Chafed

      Sorry Pie. It will be about 108 American degrees here tomorrow. At this point, rain is a figment of my imagination.

    • Sean

      Sucky way to start the day.

    • one true athena

      It was kind of a bummer when we went up to Vandenberg to try to catch the Starlink launch a month ago. There was heavy coastal fog, so we saw nothing. But the sound is pretty impressive, so at least there was that.

      I just hope this Starlink agreement with the cell carriers works in my favor, since I’m smack in a dead zone, despite being in SoCal.

  36. DEG

    Let’s see if I can post this morning. I ran into 500 errors last night.

    “Lowers my property values” is the property owner’s version of “emotional damages”. Completely subjective.

    Unless something your neighbor does crosses your property lines, there is no trespass, and thus no foul.

    Even though I’ve said all that, I agree, shooting will happen. Some people just are that way.

  37. Sean

    I have a contractor working on my deck this week.

    DECK. You weirdos.

    • CPRM
      • Sean

        I had no hand in this. GF handled the whole thing. (Phrasing?)

        They did two neighbors this summer and she hired them too.

  38. DEG

    Off to the gym. I have early meetings today at work. Yay.

    • Sean

      Haha.

      See ya Saturday.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      If his recovery was going well heā€™d be eager to show it. He has aphasia at the very least from what Iā€™ve seen.

  39. CPRM

    If you don’t want to live next door to me then move, I was here first bithes.

    • Not Adahn

      Good goat!

  40. Rat on a train

    Chesapeake Bay lighthouse still looking for bidders

    Bidding starts at $15,000, but more than three weeks after the auction started Aug. 8, there are still no bidders as of Tuesday. That likely has to do with the fact there are a bunch of rules you would have to follow if you bought it.

    First, itā€™s an active lighthouse used for navigation, so the U.S. Coast Guard needs access in order to operate and maintain its light.

    Second, because the lighthouse is on the National Register of Historic Places, its historic features must be properly maintained and preserved under the guidance of the state of Maryland.

    Third, you must sign a Memorandum of Agreement with the U.S. Navy that will dictate when you can access the lighthouse.

    ā€œTwenty-four-hour occupancy is prohibited,ā€ Powell said. ā€œThe only time that you can ā€¦ overnight there is if youā€™re doing maintenance, youā€™re doing work on the lighthouse to repair it, that kind of thing.ā€

    Get your bid in by 21 September.

    • robodruid

      Pretty restrictive. Why bid on it?

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Yeah, if you think boats are money pits, and they are, just wait until that thing gets ahold of your wallet to no discernible benefit.

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      That being the case, I don’t see why they’re selling it unless they’re just looking to fuck some idiot over.

      • Rat on a train

        I’m also taking bids for the right to pay for the maintenance of my house.

  41. Gender Traitor

    Good morning, ‘bodru, RoaT, Sean, Stinky, CPRM, and (somewhere out there) DEG!

    I’ve already done just about all I can do on my month-end reports until the month actually ends. I’ve even started updating my boss’s salary increase spreadsheets for his 2023 budget. Thus, other than sorting the mail and the items from the interoffice bags, I have no stinkin’ idea what I’m going to do at work today.

    Of course, our CIO’s last minute (4:56 p.m.) email yesterday asking everyone to update their Windows/network passwords right away MIGHT portend something…”interesting.” šŸ˜³

    • Grosspatzer

      Mornin’, GT.

      “Of course, our CIOā€™s last minute (4:56 p.m.) email yesterday asking everyone to update their Windows/network passwords right away MIGHT portend somethingā€¦ā€interesting.”

      Ruh-roh. Somebody clicked on a bad email linky? I’m sure your customer data is safe, though.

      • Gender Traitor

        Our “receptionist” (guy in his 80s who refuses to retire) lost internet and external email privileges for doing something like that. And he used to do computer work back in the day (maybe back in the punch card era?) He should’ve known better.

      • Grosspatzer

        Now you’ve done it, gone and jogged my memory.

        About 15 years ago, Mrs. Patzer asks if I can help a friend’s dad with a computer problem. Sure, happy to help, sez I. So I pack up my kit of rescue tools and mosey on over to the victim’s house. Dude had more malware than I had ever seen, but I did manage to clean it up. Apparently this eighty-something dude allowed his teenaged granddaughter to use his PC to surf the intertubez.

        Here’s the kicker. The guy was a retired FBI agent who was working part-time for his old firm doing background checks. On that computer.

  42. Grosspatzer

    Mornin’, reprobates!

    • Gender Traitor

      Good morning, ‘patzie! How’s yer mouf?

      • Grosspatzer

        Thanks for asking. Slowly improving. Saw the dentist Monday, it’s healing nicely but will be “uncomfortable” for a few more weeks. Tomorrow I take my wife to a visit with the surgeon from HSS, then take my firstborn for an endoscopy.

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bS3O5zg290k

      • Gender Traitor

        Hope both the Missus and the Junior have good outcomes!

        Ya-dee-da-dee-dee to you too. It cracks me up that this tune is now being used in TV ads for a prescription drug for congestive heart failure. šŸ˜†

      • Grosspatzer

        LOL, I must have missed that ad. At least the advertising folks are still being creative, more than can be said of most media content producers (looking at you, Disney).

  43. Stinky Wizzleteats

    Hoarding: If you havenā€™t used it in the past year, maybe two years tops, throw it the hell out. That used to be my advice to myself and I need to get back to it. It seems like you often will find a need for something you just threw out but itā€™s better than accumulating more and more shit.

    • Grosspatzer

      *checks storage room* *checks attic*

      Yup.

      • Rat on a train

        I have successfully kept the attic clear of all storage. The storage room … every time I clean it my wife puts more stuff in it.

    • UnCivilServant

      By that logic, I would have thrown out my stand mixer two or three times by now, same thing with my step ladder, and the air pump for my car tires. You’re too quick to discard things.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        That makes sense but for people with compulsive tendencies it slippery slopes into unneeded and eventually useless items. Exceptions are fine though as long as you donā€™t find yourself making more and more exceptions.

      • EvilSheldon

        By that standard I would have thrown out about $12k in Limited division guns and .40 ammo and reloading gear. Thanks, but I’ll keep the hoard.

      • Sean

        Shoulda refreshed…

    • Sean

      I have ammo older than Evan. You saying I should toss it?

      • Not Adahn

        No, you should shoot it and replace it with fresher.

      • Sean

        Spam cans. It’ll outlive both of us.

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      Does this rule apply to immediate family?

  44. Yusef drives a Kia

    Howdy Hi folks, how’s the covfefe today?

    • Gender Traitor

      Good morning, Yu! The kawfy is awesome, as always. Hope you’ve got some good stuff. (Coffee, that is.)

      • Yusef drives a Kia

        Heya GT, still drinking Nescafe instant, double strength, Pur water. The day looks quite nice though so I shall go for a drive
        šŸ•³šŸ¦Ž

    • Grosspatzer

      Today’s brew is Costa Rican. Yum. And a good morning to you, sir.

      • Not Adahn

        I greatly prefer South American/Mexican coffee to African. Except that my absolute favorite is yrga cheffe.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        I used to get a Costa Rican brand that was cut with about 10% cane sugar.

        I’d bring it back to the states by the duffel bag as it cost me about a $1 per pound down there.

      • UnCivilServant

        Had a few encounters with increasingly frustrated DEA agents on the way?

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Surprisingly not, although the thought didn’t occur to me back then. I was just happy that I had Christmas gifts for everyone at a great price.

      • Tres Cool

        Mine was brewed just down the road in lovely Trenton, Ohio.
        By Teamsters, the label informs me.

  45. Not Adahn

    your will is being encroached upon by someone else and you are powerless.

    But of course, you aren’t. What’s happening is that you have a moral intuition is telling you that the possible actions you could take are either not worth the response they would generate or immoral in themselves.

    To me, this is an indication that moral intuition is a TERRIBLE source for making policy. However, is seems that most people will instead keep adding epicycles to their systems in order to cling to their intuition. Witness the latest kerfuffle among the “intellectuals” at/around Scott Adams for the nth repetition about how “utilitarianism is great, here’s how to deal with the Repugnant Conclusion. “

    • Not Adahn

      Scott Alexander, sorry.

  46. Tres Cool

    suh’ fam
    whats goody

      • Gender Traitor

        šŸ™

      • Tres Cool

        Yeah. I have WLW on and it seems DeWine is all proud for announcing that all flags are 1/2 staff today.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Are we all supposed to OD as part of the ceremonies?

      • Tres Cool

        The weather is divine, however. Might finally be fall-ish, tho Im sure September has some 90-degree days left.

  47. UnCivilServant

    What the fuck is wrong with this project manager? No, we do not need 10,000+ 2+hr long meetings that actively prevent us from getting any work done on the project.

    • Sean

      Maybe he has a lot of donut and coffee stocks.

    • Rat on a train

      An empty calendar makes it look like you aren’t busy.

      • UnCivilServant

        These meetings are well above the ‘no longer useful’ threshold number of attendees. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.

  48. Tres Cool

    I walked into a fortune teller’s place the other day. She said “the brothel is two doors down”.
    She’s good.

    • Not Adahn

      Did she still call you superman?

      • Tres Cool

        I got my money’s worth.

  49. Not Adahn

    *ahem*

    *checks watch*

    • Rat on a train

      Has yours stopped?

      • Tres Cool

        Mine stopped. It had too- its been running fast all week!

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      You’re doing it wrong.

      *checks spectacles, testicles, wallet, watch*

      • Count Potato

        Amen

      • Rat on a train

        I appear to be missing spectacles.

      • UnCivilServant

        I don’t have a watch. What time is it?

        *cue timezone argument*

  50. Tonio

    Links are forthcoming. The squirrels…

    • AlexinCT

      YOWZA!

  51. Pat

    This is more or less the situation I was describing a while back with my dickhead neighbor wailing on his truck every damn day. The neighbor on the other side has so much dog shit piled in her yard that the smell is overwhelming on that side of the property. I just found a dead mouse outside a few days ago – it ate one of the poison blocks that I started keeping at each corner of my house a few years ago after I had a couple get into the house. My property has no vegetation or trash, so I can guess what’s attracting the rodents. HOA doesn’t give a shit. I don’t think we even have any code enforcement out here for that type of thing.

    As you pointed out, there’s no real recourse, you’re just fucked. The solution is to upend your life and move, and then repeat the process as necessary until either you find your personal fortress or die. And this is one small microcosm of why libertarianism is not a practicable approach to actual government. “Work it out amongst yourselves” doesn’t work any better for grown ass adults than it does in a 1st grade class when the teacher says it.