The layout. The offending wall must go.
So I want to remove a (load bearing) wall. The main living area of my house, encompassing a living room dinning room (greatish sort of room), entry and kitchen is 3/4 vaulted. The great room and entry are vaulted, the kitchen has a standard ceiling. The kitchen is separated from the entry by a wall that I want removed. I started looking around for contractors, contacted about 4. Only one followed up with a visit to check it out/quote it. He spent about 30 minutes, took notes, said he’d get his engineer out to take a look and quote it. He never called back. So what’s a self respecting curmudgeon to do? Roll up the sleeves and tear it down.
Left – elevation of the ‘current’ situation. Right – elevation of the desired situation.
So here’s the plan. I contemplated vaulting the kitchen root by running 2×8 rafters and removing the trusses. But my scaled back plan already had me nervous and sleepless, so I’d definitely need a contractor for that and that’s how we find our selves DIYing it in the first place. Plus there’s a gas line that would require moving, probably significant re-wiring since there’s not a lot of slack in the wiring. And, to avoid work, I convince myself I like the ceiling in the kitchen for lighting and stuff.
This is how it was; no pics with drywall installed. The trusses hung out over… nothing. They were basically supporting the roof deck up to the ridge beam.
So the first step is to shorten the trusses to remove the ‘box’ suspended in space. That means leaving the top span of the truss connected to the ridge beam supporting the rafters on the vaulted 3/4 of the space; so I’ll remove the vertical ends of the trusses and cut the lower truss members even with the edge of the top plate on the existing wall. The truss will get ‘rebuilt’ with a vertical member from the top span to the bottom span, even with the existing top plate. The the cross truss members will get tied into the new vertical member. Also tie the cross member directly to the bottom truss span for support.
The box to nowhere removed, vertical and cross members of the truss rebuilt and re-attached, 2×8’s crippled into the top truss members.
The next step is to cripple in 2x8s on the top span of the truss back to where I can drop a support to the bottom of the truss and tie it into the existing ridge beam at the roof peak. This (hopefully) provides support to the roof deck for the 1.5 foot span beyond the existing wall as well as provides a flush nailing surface for drywall even with the rest of the vaulted ceiling. With the roof/truss all sorted – I hope – go on to remove the wall.
The full stripped wall, ready to move electric and be removed.
I already pulled one side of the drywall to get the lay of the land, so the next step is to pull down all the drywall on the current wall. There’s some electrical to be re-worked here since those two outlets are mounted where there will be no wall anymore and the switch box needs to move over to the left on the new post once it’s in. So there’s a day on the electric; basically, the existing lines are too short to accommodate new locations on the outlets, so I put two junction boxes in the attic. The outlet on the left just gets moved over to under the switch box mounted on the new post. The outlet on the right moves all the way over to the right onto a new stud that I put up – the top plate continues on to the rest of the house, so I just added a new stud to define the end of the new beam where the post will go, cleaned up the drywall and put an extra stud in to provide a nailing surface for the drywall (no images until the end product of that). Interestingly, that outlet continues on to the refrigerator (horizontal line disappearing to the right). I have a GFI on the fridge, but it’s on the wall behind the fridge – if it trips, I have to pull the fridge out to reset. Now it hasn’t tripped in 10+ years, so no biggie, but I figured that since I have the circuit figured out, I’ll put a GFI on the moved outlet and replace the fridge outlet with a standard outlet so I have easy access in case it ever trips. I think code specifies that the fridge should be on its own circuit… Now as you can tell, normally I’m all about code, but here I let it slide and left an extra outlet on the fridge circuit just as the house was originally wired.
The temporary support wall constructed and in place.
Well, now I’m running out things I can procrastinate on; time to get on with it and remove the wall. I leave instructions with friends to call for a rubble extraction team if they don’t hear from me in 12 hours and dive in. First step is to build a temporary support wall that will support the ceiling and roof until the new beam is in. So I cut some spacers at 18″ for a consistent spacing on the floor and ceiling from the existing wall, connect the top plate to the trusses and the bottom plate to the spacers which are tied into the bottom plate of the original wall. Add in vertical studs between and voila, a temporary support wall. I hope.
OK, so now I have absolutely nothing I can use as an excuse. Time to remove the old wall.
The studs and bottom of the double top-plate removed. At this point, the temp wall is doing all the work of keeping the roof off my head.
That goes pretty smoothly and I’m not wearing my roof as headgear, so that’s good. Now it’s time to put the posts and beam in. For the beam, I went with a double 2×10 – for this span, really should be 2×12 at least I think, but I’m living on the edge. Since a doubled up 2×10 will only be about 3 inches wide and the posts/existing wall are 3.5 inches (2×4), the beam will be spaced out with a 1/2 inch plywood core. That also allows room for the electric lines to come down through the beam. Rather than build the beam and lift it into place which will be awkward, I decide to build it in place. So I put one 2×10 up lined up with the inside wall and clamp it into place with supports below. Note I left the top piece of the old top plate in place which is securely fastened to the trusses. To secure the beam, I put in 4″ GRK structural screws down through the top plate into the 2×10. With the beam in place, I mount the 1/2 plywood spacing with construction adhesive and tacked in – in the end I’ll use structural screws to joining the beams so the plywood just need to be held in place for now. The next step is to add the next 2×10 on the outside edge. It’s the same procedure, clamp in place, fasten with structural screws to the top plate. The 2x10s are then screwed together through their faces with structural screws again. Now all that remains is to add the new posts to actually support the beam and carry the load. These are just 2 2x4s on each end of the beam cut to the correct length. On the left side, I also put in an extra vertical stud so that when drywall goes in, the outlet and switch box wouldn’t just be hanging out in the middle of nowhere. Remove the temporary wall and the bottom plate and the major bits are done.
Upper left – First 2×10 in place, with small section of spacer on the left. Upper right – full spacer in place. Lower left – second 2×10 in place and attached. Lower right- posts in place (note blocking on the right side for drywall attachment.
Well just started really. Now I have to drywall, though that will wait until the kitchen is done. Which means… I have to pull up about 1000sq ft of tile. The tile comes up easy, the thin set, not so much. I got about 42sq ft up with a hand sledge and chisel, but, while my forearm is pretty damn strong (for reasons), it can only get so big before I start frightening small children and have to start eating spinach. And I hate oxylates. So I think I’ll go buy a rotary hammer drill and see how that works. And after the re-tiling is done, I just need to design the kitchen, build some cabinets, re-work some plumbing lines, pour some concrete counter tops… sigh.
The final product. Where final means structurally sound one hopes, but still need a lot of work around it and then the finish work.
Bonus music link. Walls.
The real question here is : “Are you going to love it or list it?”
LOL
Dude, “I’mma take down the only load-bearing wall on a vaulted ceiling” gave me chills. Not the good kind.
The girlfriend at one point thought we needed a bigger kitchen, and thought a good project would be to move the external wall out several feet.
I told her it would be easier and less expensive to move.
My wife asked why we couldn’t put in a pocket door.
I explained that the pocket for the door would need to be through an exterior wall.
So…you vetoed the pocket door?
By the laws of physics.
Now, now, think of the amusement that could’ve been had by having that door extending outside – someone comes walking around the house and WHAM, that door slides out and they walk right into it.
*squints suspiciously*
Wut. She just wanted a patio door?
Moving that wall changed the light and the air, lets put it back.
Very nice. You eliminated the overhand?
Yep, overhang eliminated.
Re: To be honest, moving the vertical support away the peak would make be very very nervous. – Moi aussi. I’m somewhat mollified by the fact that there is a ridge beam that the common rafters on the vaulted sections tie into. I made sure the top member of the truss tied into the ridge beam and the added 2x8s tied into the beam and back down to the bottom member of the truss back inside the attic. It’s only about 1.5 feet as well, so I’m thinking there’s no issue. And while I’m sleeping a bit better now that it’s done, I still panic from time to time.
Nice work, PM! You are an ambitious motherfucker!
I started looking around for contractors, contacted about 4. Only one followed up with a visit to check it out/quote it.
Even before the ‘vid I was having this problem. Frustrating as hell. And, yes, I ended up doing jobs I didn’t want to.
I think code specifies that the fridge should be on its own circuit.
I did not know that.
I’m still waiting for the call to schedule the replacement of my garage door. It was ordered ~7 weeks ago, they provided a lead time of 6-8 weeks before they would receive the door. They won’t schedule until they have the door.
It took me almost a year to get a contractor to put new shutters (vinyl!) on my house.
*I started doing it myself but the front of my house is brick and the old screws kept breaking off. Plus I bought the wrong shutters initially.
Just had a new dishwasher put in (not dealing with electricity and water). Only four days after the initial estimate of a week. Guy mentioned that if I wasn’t available on Sunday, it would have been another couple of weeks before he could get to me.
It took 3.5 months for use to get a new garage door.
Use? Sure.
Amen to that. Must be awesome to have so much work that you don’t need to follow back up with potential customers.
More frustrating is after they accept the job but don’t follow up to schedule. Do they really not want the job or are their terrible at managing their business?
I wish my door guy had failed to do so. Not entirely happy with the quality of the work but I think I can mostly fix it and can’t really put wood back after it’s cut.
It’s own 20 amp circuit, no less…
…I used to think until I double checked and read this.
Choice excerpts:
They then go on to list basically any room in your house.
And the visible outlet was wired pig-tailed, so tripping the GFI there… doesn’t interrupt power to the fridge. I’ll fix that. Eventually.
No, that’s correct.
You don’t want the GFCI to protect your fridge outlet, that can lead to a lot of spoiled food
And yet the Quora post says a fridge in a kitchen must be on an AFCI circuit, which I think is just as bad. You definitely don’t want your kitchen countertop outlets on an AFCI circuit, as small motors tend to trip those breakers.
I followed code and put (very expensive) AFCI breakers in my house when we built it, and then over time I took them back out so we could actually run a vacuum cleaner without always stretching a cord to the kitchen or a bathroom.
Makes sense. My last two houses were not on dedicated circuits.
Tamper resistant outlets.. ugh.
My fridge is not on a dedicated ciruit. I just replaced the breaker on that line, and am pretty familiar with the run. On the other hand, it isn’t in the kitchen so I wouldn’t mind putting in on a GFCI.
“Walls don’t work!”
So, what do you use to keep the weather out and the roof up?
Tarps?
Oh, so you live next door to me!
LOL @ the last pic alt text.
All of them are hilarious!
Crippling the 2×8’s LOL
To be honest, moving the vertical support away the peak would make be very very nervous.
I got the fiberglass itch, just seeing the insulation…
It’s still better to work with than the blown shit.
Yes yes! We hateses the itches!
Do you hear the Firsting Bell toll? Do you know for whom the First tolls?
E Z Pass?
All seconders, beware. When there is a bump in the night, and it gives you a fright, it may be…the Firster.
The only first there would be which of my dogs was chewing up your ass.
Hitler?
That last thread threw you off?
A Night Of The Long Firsts is coming. The seconders have every Firster surrounded. Or so they think. But the Firsters? We have guile and cunning.
Boredom?
Now, now, now. You’re just not trying anymore. You could learn from me – I still haven’t sent my brother and his family their Christmas gifts.
For something like a load-bearing wall, I could last decades.
Partially on topic! Funny the timing last week on this paywalled NYT article
The New Soldiers in Propane’s Fight Against Climate Action: Television Stars
+ 1 Hank Hill
electricity made from wind, solar
Electricity that won’t be there when you need it.
Good for them. I’d donate if they weren’t already getting money from me via my propane and propane accessory salesman.
I’m sure all of those pushing for electrification are doing it out of the good of their own hearts and don’t stand to make one red cent.
Two things progressives have a hard time with: reality and human nature.
No! You’re going to be on the grid and subject to blackouts, brownouts, and throttling by the righteous authorities. You’ll have dry skin (cuz electric heating systems suck diddly uck) and like it damnit.
Good show, PM.
You don’t know what you can do until you try.
Thanks.
(Manly shoulder clap) Hope you are doing as well as can be expected.
Sorry, Rufus called and I had to work. I hate meetings. Especially for work already done and this is just to fill in the bureaucracy.
Now if someone doesn’t bother me with work, I can catch up on Glibs.
A M&P 5.7? Wut?
Neat-O!
The system of operation is a lot more interesting than 5.7×28, which remains something of a meme caliber unless you have access to the armor-piercing stuff.
Where the fuck you gonna get ammo, though?
I got $22 boxes of ammo at home that are currently going for $76, when you can find it.
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/57x28mm-rifle-ammo-c-705.aspx
Less than $50/box
I’m still not getting involved with that caliber.
Best I’ve seen for .38 Special is about $0.60 / round.
Holy crap, I take that back. Thx, Sean.
.357 is insane.
The common stuff is getting a little more reasonable lately*, but anything the least bit unusual is still nuts. Lots of new gunslingers in the wild, and they’re shooting a lot more than they used to.
* – I just bought 2000 rounds of 147grn. 9mm FMJ for $520 to my door. If you don’t care about bullet weight, you can do even better than that.
I designed our house from scratch. Been in the house almost 18 years now. I have not had any urges to change the physical layout of the house. So, I guess that means I got it mostly right to start with.
I bought some more rural property with the intent of building, but am terrible at the design phase. Or would end up with a Bill Gates level resort mansion that I have no hope of affording. Did you start from scratch? From a rough plan and update? Site survey for soil support/optimal structure? Advice on where to start a plan?
They used to have magazine/book things full of house plans. See if you can find something like that to get some ideas. Find something close to what you want, then modify from there.
Put on some shitty Rush album and start looking through this site.
Asshole.
I might as well clock out now! It’s cool how many smaller plans they have. My days of big houses are over.
I’d take a well laid out and efficient small house over a warehouse any day.
Yep. If we end up building something out here, I’d like to do a 1500 sq ft or so with passive solar.
So what your saying is that it’s impossible to find house plans?
OK, OK, I’ll concede Tai Shan. But I don’t think I can have that one and only ‘shitty’ (and only in a relative sense at that) song on repeat for too long and not become homicidal. Maybe I’ll search plans 4 minutes at a time.
Much more complicated than me building out our second trailer for the business. Nice work PM
Impressive. I like to tackle a home improvement project but I don’t mess with plumbing or load bearing walls. Nice work and a good write-up.
I just changed out the sink faucet in the teen’s bathroom. There, I plumbed. Though I didn’t do a complete job. The hot/cold water shutoff valves are shot. No turning off the water locally at the sink.
See if you can find a Gordon Wrench. They’re designed for shutoff valves. I found a site selling them a couple years back (it has since died), but with one I was able to turn some shutoff valves that I couldn’t get to budge any other way.
No I could turn them after copious amounts of PB…I think the valve inside is shot on both. These were the originals from the house.
Here I was being cynical and thought you would link to a dead blow hammer on Amazon or something.
I don’t know who does the SEO for this guy, but I never saw him before yesterday and he has come up in my feed in 3 different apps in the last 24 hours. Spitting facts and roasting the woke.
https://www.reddit.com/r/maybemaybemaybe/comments/10e68cp/maybe_maybe_maybe/
Now he tells me that the UK has gone full totalitarian.
https://youtube.com/shorts/0oGGPfUv41s
This is what came up first,.. an Oxford debate.
Long, but interesting
At least there are some folks over there standing up
https://youtu.be/JKIOSnKX96E
But it takes a comedian, apparently.. dude is named Konstantin Kristin
His closer on the climate change issue is devastating and on point.
Carl Benjamin & his Lotus Eaters are pretty good (usually) non-woke Brits.
I think it is spelled Kisin. Might help track him down online.
Yeah, but Google disagrees. They autocorrected that for me and I didn’t notice.
So helpful.
I am impressed with the level of cleanliness with no dust wall. Also the tiling sourced from the same supplier who did all 80’s era fast food kitchens.
Steven Crowder is going off on big conservative media while being coy who he is talking about. Claims it isn’t about The Blaze (who he has severed ties with, he is moving his Mug Club elsewhere). Says that the people up top in the conservative media are basically frauds. Claims that in an attempt to find another host, he was subjected to attempts to control his content that would have basically subjected him to penalties along the same terms as the ones big tech would want.
Shows one of the contracts here.
Well…. that only leaves the establishment conservative, Daily Wire, right?
There are grifters on the right too? Oh no, say it ain’t so.
I think the real argument is that they are all grifters. He can’t find a platform because the big conservative outlets who can afford to pay for his content and host things like Mug Club basically want to fuck the show over. If he can’t get a better contract than what they are offering there, there really isn’t a conservative voice who can.
You get blocked on a platform, you are basically hit with huge financial penalties while bringing in a massive audience for whoever is hosting you. It’s absurd.
Yeah, regardless of what you think of him he’s a giant on the conservative side and if he can’t get a good contract then no one can. Maybe Cumia’s outfit would have him, he seems to not give a shit.
I see channels on YouTube regularly I know are de-monetized but there are still ads in their content. Maddening. YouTube has become almost unusable.
YouTube is more than happy to pocket all of the ad cash.
PrinciplesPrincipalsWhat if Diversity Trainings Are Doing More Harm Than Good?
How about a commitment to merit. That has a proven track record though it upsets the woke.
Is there a melt-down going on at the Times again?
I am working with our DEI committee currently on recruiting for employment. I am not on the committee (I don’t do committees) but I am trying to judo the process in my selfish favor to find talent that (yes, minorities) no one else is looking for. That’s all I care about. I don’t care about all of the other bullshit associated with DEI.
I made sure the top member of the truss tied into the ridge beam and the added 2x8s tied into the beam and back down to the bottom member of the truss back inside the attic. It’s only about 1.5 feet as well, so I’m thinking there’s no issue.
That’s good. I definitely think strengthening those stringers (or whatever they’re properly called) would be essential.
I followed through Braggs’ latest to find New label law has unintended effect: Sesame in more foods
Summary: FDA adds sesame to major allergen list requiring strict regime to prevent cross-contamination for products that don’t include sesame. Businesses find it less costly to add sesame to products. People who pushed for the listing complain there are now fewer sesame-free options.
More than 1.6 million people in the U.S. are allergic to sesame, some so severe that they need injections of epinephrine, a drug used to treat life-threatening reactions. Cases of sesame allergy have been rising in recent years along with a growing number of foods that contain the ingredient, said Dr. Ruchi Gupta, a pediatrician and director of the Center for Food Allergy & Asthma Research at Northwestern University.
That’s almost no one, ffs. Eat whole foods and you need never worry.
-San Fran City Panel Urges Reparations Of $5 Million Per Black Adult
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/san-fran-city-panel-urges-reparations-5-million-black-adult
Plus a guaranteed almost six figure income for the next roughly 250 years. Sure, why the hell not-it’s all going to be worth less than Monopoly money before long anyway.
Oh boy. I can’t wait for the claims associated with this one. What’s the criteria? Self identify as black? Look black? Genetics tests? One drop genealogy? Phrenology? This is going to made the tribal bullshit pale by comparison.
tribal bullshit pale
One arched eyebrow plus a narrowed gaze.
I would have expected an Italian with a tear rolling down his cheek instead.
And this for good measure.
Also pay off their debts. Give them tax credits. What about free tickets to all events in the city? Parking exemptions? Purge night?
What about ponies? I bet half the darkies do not even have a pony.
This is awesome. I hope it happens.
You are acting like you think they won’t do it…
Well, let’s be fair about this. All the Wypipo just have five million just lying around, like spare pocket change. So this is only fair.
Let’s see… allow tons of Hispanic immigrants into the state, then give $5 million to each black person. I’m sure it will work out fine.
I think the only real fair solution is to allow black people to own their own chattel slaves. Surely they’ll turn it into generational wealth within a century.
How much are gold chains and Purple Drank now at inflationary prices?
Setting the stage for further grievance mongering and handouts.
Inflation is not real, it’s a rethuglican fabrication. A Nobel Prize winner can tell you.
Joetard is such a winner
Let’s be honest. In a fair election, he will lose to Trump in a landslide. But he will lose to DeSantis in a bigger landslide. Like it makes a difference because there is NOT going to be a fair election. I am sure they are discussing this in Davos right now.
Ballots not votes.
Chaching!
Mail in ballots for everyone!
Dead people? ✔️
People living at vacant lots? ✔️
Moved out of state? ✔️
My wife just told me that she is black, do are right now working on the adoptions. I have somehow discovered that I like black chillins da best! So I’m getting my fity cent and mo, I mean 5 mil, as soon as I move to Cali. I’m goan back to Cali, Cali, Cali. Goan back to Cali, hell yeah, chaching!
Crank that fukin bass!
Trump barely beat Hillary. Why is it so unbelievable he wouldn’t ever lose?
And no, I don’t think DeSantis will win a landslide because half of the voting populace in this country is Dem-loyal. Hitler would get their votes as long as he ran as a D. Those voters aren’t going away.
^so much fucking this
Real true blue believers really truly think that Desantis is a tyrant. You won’t have to ask, they’ll tell you unbidden.
You’ve met my ex I see. She lives in Texas and has no reason to have any opinion much less an incredibly negative one toward DeSantis. But she, unbidden, talked about how he is almost as bad as Trump (whom she loathes with every fibre of her being).
They painted Romney, the most bland politician ever, as LITERALLY HITLER. They will have no problem dialing up the RHEEEEE on DeSantis and claiming he’s TRUMP’S HENCHMAN.
Once he’s the nominee he’ll be 10x worse than Trump.
Video or it didn’t happen
Add some bikinis and mud for the two and Congress might be more interesting.
Here’s the deal. It’s a firearm shaped object. It does raise an interesting point about declaring it.
TSA finds undeclared 84 mm caliber weapon in checked luggage at Texas airport
Good thing our friends at the TSA didn’t make a big deal about it.
That’s one hell of a big poptart to chew into the shape of a weapon of mass destruction. Doe these glibertarians even work? I have evidence that they do not.
“Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) reportedly witnessed a confrontation between Greene and Boebert, but refused to dish on details”
Uh huh. Can we file this under ‘things that didn’t happen for 600, Alex’? Video now!
Like Dingell could operate video recording.
Security cam footage available on PH?
Are you sure the wall was load bearing?
Actually, no. That is an assumption; with the ridge beam… Maybe not?
I assume this is a slab home? No basement?
Dead thread: Correct; slab on grade.
Speaking of “not a weapon”.
Drunk man busted in NYC subway station with bizarre homemade gun hidden in pants: cops
No actual explanation of how the “gas operated” weapon works or if it actually has been successfully fired.
What kind of rounds? Round golfballs?
Relevant
Putrid’s post made me think of this.
“It sounded less expensive to say no.”
I may have to look that one up. Thank’s TedS’!
You’ve never seen it despite how many times it’s been mentioned and linked to here?
The movie is 75 years old, but it’s still funny today because it’s true. Just ask anybody who’s ever built a new house or renovated.
That is a marveling movie. I own a copy.
Damn my auto correct.
Helluva coincidence, Hunter.
This is it. They’re pushing him out, as all of us here predicted. The only question was when.
I’m still taking the under on that bet. This is coming out because of freedom of speech on Twitter. People now have a public place to discuss things which were suppressed everywhere else. All of this would have been suppressed and only on ZeroHedge and such if not for Elon.
Tres Version 2.0 has acquired his state of Ohio temporary license.
Pray for me.
Should we open a GoFundMe for your auto insurance?
Have him change his last name to Biden.