What’s a little dust between friends?

by | Sep 14, 2023 | Science | 165 comments

Music to read to.

One of the interesting aspects of science is how some things one might consider mundane can have an impact on the bigger picture questions. Like the age of the universe. So when I can across a recent paper based on James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) data, I figured I’d try another short summary article.

So the paper in question is “Carbonaceous dust grains within galaxies seen in the first billion years of cosmic time.” and is based on data obtained in the first year of JWST operations. The mundane here is cosmic dust and the bigger picture question is the age of the universe.

So by way of background, what is cosmic dust? Briefly, it carbonaceous and silicate materials – smoke and sand – that fill (for some value of the word ‘fill’ – it’s still pretty damn empty by terrestrial standards) the space between stars. Cosmic dust has been known to exist since the early part of the last century. In the 1930s, Trumpler observed that the more distant a star cluster the fainter and redder it appeared. Of course, the more distant a thing is the fainter it will appear naturally just by virtue of the inverse square law; however, the deficit was higher that would be expected from mere distance and distance alone should not make things look more red. However, if the space were uniformly filled with material that absorbs and scatters light, then the further away a thing was the more stuff it would pass through and the fainter it would appear. Since the absorption and scattering of light is dependent on the wavelength of light, shorter wavelength (bluer) light is scattered/absorbed more so more blue light will be removed and the object will appear redder – it’s the same affect as a sunset or sunrise, light from the sun has a longer path-length through the atmosphere on the horizon, so more blue light is removed and you see a red horizon/sky.

Sunset and one of the clusters Trumpler used in his study.

A natural question is what is this material made of? Well, the universe is almost entirely made-up of hydrogen and helium; however, to scatter and absorb light efficiently, the particles doing the absorption/scattering must be of order the same size as the wavelength of light, so the absorbers must have sizes of the order of 1 micron – gaseous compounds are much, much smaller than that. So, we needed stuff that was abundant enough and could form large enough particles to effectively block light from distant objects. To gloss over a lot of details – this restricted cosmic dust to a subset of relatively abundant and refractory (stable) materials, including carbon, silicon, magnesium, iron. With the advent of UV and IR astronomy in the 60’s and early 70’s, the composition of interstellar dust was confirmed spectroscopically by observing features unique to carbonaceous and silicate materials.

The feature at 2175 A – 0.2175 um – was one of the first material identifications in interstellar extinction and is associated with a particular mode in the structure of carbonaceous materials.  The features between 3 and 10 um also have an origin in carbon materials, almost certainly aromatic carbon rings, likely poly-cyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).  The features at ~10 and 20 um are due to silicates.

So now we have one aspect of the article title covered – “Carbonaceous Dust Grains”. What is meant by “the first billion years of cosmic time”? Well, with a lot of simplification, given the finite speed of light, the further away we look, the earlier in cosmic time we are seeing – closer and closer to the start of the universe. Astronomers often measure distance as a redshift, z. The larger the measured value of z, the further back in time we are looking. The exact mapping of redshift to ‘look-back time’ depends on the cosmological model, but for a standard sort of model, if you look at an object at a redshift of 10, you are seeing it as it was only 450 million years after the Big Bang/beginning of the universe.

So those are the 2 ingredients of this paper – the authors found evidence for carbonaceous dust through the 2175 angstrom feature at a redshift of roughly 7, or when the universe was only 800 million years old.

Main figure from the paper; The evidence for carbonaceous dust is in panel b – the dip in the purple line is the signature of carbon dust. This corresponds to the feature identified in the extinction curve above

So what’s the issue? Well, in Big Bang cosmology, the universe starts off made almost entirely of hydrogen and helium. The heavier elements need to be made in the cores of stars. And after being made, they need to be ejected into the space between stars, have sufficient time to form dust, and then survive in situ. So after the Big Bang, if we want to create dust, we first need to quickly form the first generation of stars to produce the ‘heavy’ elements. The evolutionary time scale for very massive stars can be on the order of a 100 million years. These massive stars will undergo supernova explosions and dust can form in those ejecta. However, theoretical models have a difficult time producing large quantities of dust in supernovae ejecta that will survive the shocks associated with the explosion. And the current best models seem to indicate that supernovae will in general be a net destroyer of dust. Nominally, carbonaceous dust production has been attributed to a particular type of evolved star called an asymptotic giant branch (AGB) star. The evolutionary timescales for these stars however, are much longer than for the massive stars that will be supernovae at the end of their life. So the timescale for the formation of the large quantities of dust we observe is considerably longer if the dust arises predominantly from AGB stars.

That’s the fundamental tension – if one keeps seeing large quantities of dust as we look closer and closer to the Big Bang in a standard cosmological model, there will be tension between the age of the universe and the time required to make the stuff you are seeing. The observations in this paper do not create an insurmountable problem. There’s enough uncertainty in the calculation of the net dust yield in supernova and the exact mechanics of dust formation in e.g. AGB stars and the how long dust will survive in situ once formed that everything still works with a cosmological model that puts the age of the universe at 13.5 billion years. But as of yet, there’s been no indication that we are seeing ‘pristine’ (dust free) galaxies the closer we look to the Big Bang; continued JWST observations will almost certainly continue refine that. And either we’ll find it all ‘just works’ or we need to refine our dust models or the cosmology needs to be re-visited.

About The Author

PutridMeat

PutridMeat

Blah blah, blah-blah blah. Blah? B-b-b-b-b-lah! Blah blah blah blah. BLAH!

165 Comments

  1. WTF

    And either we’ll find it all ‘just works’ or we need to refine our dust models or the cosmology needs to be re-visited.

    You mean, the science is not settled?

    HERETIC!!

  2. MikeS

    lol. wut?

    • Sean

      Dude, totally carbonaceous.

    • Red Pill Matt

      I would’ve thought your affinity for Ignignokt would mean you were well versed in cosmic dust.

      • MikeS

        You people and your primitive third dimension. Cosmic dust, indeed.

    • Sensei

      OT – Mike

      Any idea what Milanese firm makes very large precision vertical lathes and mills? They apparently are cooperating so as to avoid a scandal, but it should be easy to infer.

      “Mechanical engineer Nicole Kristen Schuster allegedly helped rig bids in favor of a Milan-based supplier of highly specialized vertical lathes and milling machines used to fabricate submarine propellers and other crucial parts”

      https://www.thedailybeast.com/navy-employee-nicole-schuster-busted-in-dollar26m-plot-to-fulfill-her-italian-dream

      She’s not particularly real world smart.

      • MikeS

        I don’t know much about Italian machines, but possibly Belotti?

      • Sensei

        Looks like a reasonable guess. That thing is… LARGE!

      • MikeS

        Yeah. In it’s largest configuration the work envelope is 141′ X 29′ X 23′ !!

        But…now I see they only make mills, not lathes, so maybe it’s a different company.

      • UnCivilServant

        Feet? That’s a workspace larger than my house.

  3. Suthenboy

    I have taken issue with much of cosmology since Jr. HS.
    Like the medical field I am surprised at how much progress we have made in our understanding but there are still some pretty big gaps.

  4. R.J.

    I thought this was going to be a follow up on counter top sanding!

    • MikeS

      #metoo

    • PutridMeat

      Well, there was a bunch of dust there too.

      • R.J.

        I enjoyed reading this. But I kept thinking about sandpaper grits and dust abatement.

  5. The Bearded Hobbit

    To my limited understanding, the age of the universe is dependent upon the Hubble Constant. With a recent refinement of that constant they came up with the number 13.772GYA (billion years ago) for the Big Bang. Observations like you describe with data from the James Webb telescope and others have, once again, put that number into question. If that’s so then the calculations based upon the HC will need to back to the drawing board.

    Interesting stuff; thanks for the article.

    • PutridMeat

      The exact number is, shall we say, uncertain. However, in any big bang cosmology that fits other observations, or at least fits within the assumptions we make about what those observations mean, we’re not getting a very very different answer. So the issue will still be there.

  6. Robonerfherder

    Carbonaceous Dust Grains is the title of my new album.

  7. Timeloose

    The processes within stars are incredibly interesting. The variations in how they form and evolve are so complex.

    The most incredible aspect of cosmology is how much we learn just from observations. There is little else that can be done with such huge energies and masses. Luckily the universe is so massive that we can observe natural experiments all around us.

  8. The Last American Hero

    I’m sticking with the under at 6,000 years give or take.

  9. Aloysious

    Amorphis.

    +1 good choice, Mr. Meat.

      • Tundra
      • slumbrew
      • kinnath

        bad link

      • PutridMeat

        Personally, I thought it was a GREAT link. The best. Everyone says so.

    • DrOtto

      Great album.

  10. pistoffnick

    Move over Neil deGrasse Tyson, there is a better scientific explainer in the house.

    Excellent article, PM! I learnt sumptin new.

  11. The Late P Brooks

    Putrid- I just went back and read your counter top articles. Muy bueno. I have been toying with the idea of doing a cast concrete sink. That was very helpful.

  12. Rebel Scum

    *eyes glaze over*

  13. Tundra

    Thanks, Mr. Meat. This actually looks like science.

  14. The Late P Brooks

    To be honest, this stuff is outside my area of expertise. We might as well be talking about angels and giant magical dragons.

    And turtles all the way down.

    • Robonerfherder

      My Intro to Cosmological Physics lecture went roughly like this:

      Here’s what we think we know.

      It’s probably all wrong.

      Show your work.

      • Tundra

        Hey, that sounds just like nutrition science!

      • PutridMeat

        An honest Professor!

      • Sensei

        I foolishly took an introductory course for non-majors on the cosmos at an engineering university. It was offered by the Physics Department. I needed another 3 credits of science and didn’t want to deal with most other 4 credit courses that had labs.

        I was an idiot. I should have taken “rocks for jocks” with the football team. The first class had about 40 people. Professor starts explaining that he understands this is for non-majors and the course should be fun and interesting. After that he starts with equations on the white board.

        Second class has 20 students and a 50% drop rate. I should have done the same. But I had an interest and thought, “how bad could it be”?

        The answer was, “bad”. This was the old days with no half grades. Worked my tail off for a B when I needed to put that effort into my double majors, Learned a valuable life lesson however.

      • Robonerfherder

        LOL. One of the lacrosse players was in the lecture because he thought it was a gimme grade.

        Mind you, there was everything from freshman to grad student in there. The students were expected to develop a lecture and teach it to everyone else by the end of the semester.

        The grad students and the professor would eviscerate anyone who wasn’t up to snuff. The lacrosse player was not prepared for that experience.

        It was brutal.

      • Sensei

        Yup.

        I really don’t understand why departments feel compelled to do that. I also took the non STEM chemistry course as my lab science at Dupont’s feeder school. That was also a bad choice made by Sensei as a freshman.

        Neither experience made me more interested in either subject. OTH, I was the only business major and one of two non humanities students in a 300 level medieval European history class taught by the department chair. No prerequisites and I like the subject so I took it.

        I had a great time, loved the course and enjoyed the professor. Only thing is the guy graded on a pure curve and while I got a B with not insignificant amounts of work, other students who were history majors were very, very unhappy as they got Cs. I also think they weren’t happy that the business student took one of their Bs.

      • LCDR_Fish

        Also took Astronomy (and [population] Geography) as my science requirements. Not awful but pretty tedious – we also had weekly labs but only one lab night out of the whole semester was actually clear enough for us to actually go outside and use the telescopes.

    • kinnath

      The Turtle Moves!

      • R C Dean

        Is that what McConnell’s aides said when he unfroze at the press conference?

      • Lachowsky

        We are ruled by geriatric supremacists

  15. PutridMeat

    I’ll be a bit scarce, but will pop in for a few minutes here and there between now and when you have Fresh Meat to snark upon in the afternoon.

    Not sure what it is with this work thing, shit keeps piling up that needs doing.

  16. The Late P Brooks

    From Sensei’s link:

    “Our office and the federal agencies with whom we work take government procurement fraud seriously,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Louis D. Lappen, who is prosecuting the case, told The Daily Beast on Wednesday. “Especially when we discover alleged misconduct relating to U.S. military contracts, such as those in this case, which involved naval submarines.”

    Not just anybody gets to manipulate the process.

    • Suthenboy

      “Our office and the federal agencies with whom we work take government procurement fraud seriously,”

      *laughs until tears are rolling down my face*

  17. Drake

    As a sci-fi geek, I immediately started wondering about the dust density. Too much dust might impose a speed limit of a solar sail. Too little and a sail wouldn’t work at all.

    • Timeloose

      Drake, are you confusing a solar sail with a Bussard ramjet? Having no dust would not affect a solar sail at all and too much would definitely cause an issue. Not having enough hydrogen or other fusable elements in space would cause the ramjet issues with the size of the maw needed to collect the elements.

      • The Bearded Hobbit

        You use the solar sail inside of the solar system where the solar wind has mostly cleared the dust.

        If the sail gave 0.1g continuously you could reach ~0.1c by the time you got to Saturn (it would take almost a year to get there). Once past the heliopause the sail could be retracted and the Bussard ramjet takes over.

        Slowing down at the far end of the journey could be interesting.

      • Drake

        Yes – probably, sure.

    • R.J.

      You should see what it does to a nice paint job. Flying saucers are stainless steel silver for a reason.

  18. The Late P Brooks

    Embrace our glorious National Socialist dream

    President Joe Biden will deliver a speech Thursday contrasting his “Bidenomics” domestic policies with what the White House has dubbed “MAGAnomics,” a reference in a speech Thursday as the two sides continue to spar over the budget with a potential government shutdown on the horizon.

    The economic address comes in the midst of a budget showdown in Congress where hardline Republicans in the House of Representatives are demanding cuts too big to pass the Democratic-controlled Senate.

    Congress has just over two weeks to pass the twelve appropriations bills and get Biden’s signature. Failure to do so by Sept. 30 would result in a government shutdown leading to furloughed workers, agencies closed and many essential programs placed in peril. White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre on Wednesday criticized congressional Republicans for not reaching an agreement.

    “The shutdown should not happen,” Jean-Pierre said. “That’s Congress’s job: To avoid a shutdown.”

    It’s Congress’ job to rubber stamp infinite spending.

    • Drake

      He thinks a compare-and-contrast of 2023 to 2019 lands in his favor? Housing, gas prices, food, jobs, interest rates… which of these are better?

      • DrOtto

        None of the prices are better, but they are greater. And who doesn’t like greatness?

      • Suthenboy

        Winner, winner Doc.

      • Suthenboy

        The Dems have been piling on with the ‘believe us and not your lying eyes’ arguments lately.
        They must have consulted this guy on strategy: https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2019/05/13/Jimmy_Carter_Health.JPG.jpg

        This. morning Mrs. Suthenboy was incredulous over the Iran deal. I pointed out that Dem presidents are always ready and willing to accommodate our sworn enemies.
        If the Dems, whose interests are exactly inverse to the people they purport to represent, really did hate America and its ideals, what would they do differently?
        Her response included the word ‘treason’. My response: “Nooooow you are catching on.” She has been quiet ever since.

      • The Other Kevin

        The people running the show have no political skills. This is not going to go the way they expect. I suspect there will be a lot of new memes coming from this.

      • JaimeRoberto (carnitas/spicy salsa)

        For one thing, they won’t use 2019 as the baseline. They’ll use the depths of the lockdown. Secondly, they’ll have the media backing them up.

      • UnCivilServant

        We need to use 1819 as the baseline.

    • Tundra

      Then, once he has recovered and the drugs start working agin, he’ll deliver another blockbuster speech.

      Can’t wait to be called a terrorist again.

      • Drake

        What else can he talk about? His domestic and foreign policy successes?

      • The Other Kevin

        “Threats” meaning multiple people who don’t vote the way he wants them to.

      • The Other Kevin

        He needs to ramp it up, maybe have a big bonfire in the background this time.

    • "RFK Apologist"

      Spoiler alert: Republicans will talk tough and demand that Ukraine funding be done through a separate bill, only to fold at the 11th hour and give the president everything he wants.

      When do people think we’ll be engaged in a direct war with Russia? It seems to be an inevitably and the desired outcome at this point.

      • Sean

        Just before the 2024 election.

      • MikeS

        “We’re at war! You can’t change the commander-in-chief in the middle of a war!”

      • Suthenboy

        That would be unprecedented.

    • Rebel Scum

      reaching an agreement.

      I.e. Do what Democrats want.

    • Dr. Fronkensteen

      I think he’s going to try to play class warfare and claim that Trump was sending give aways to the the corporations and the rich. Two problems with the old playbook. One is that the Democrats fund the large corporations as well. The second problem being that people unlike the White House are not looking at the core CPI. They’re looking at their inflation rate which does include food and fuel. This will not be a good comparison for the WH.

      Also,

      and many essential programs placed in peril.

      Argument of facts not in evidence.

    • Suthenboy

      I am fairly sure ‘Bidenomics’ is a word invented by Jeane-Pierre on the fly when asked a question about Biden’s economic plan….he doesn’t have one beyond national socialism….so she didn’t have an answer. ‘Bidenomics’ just popped out of her mouth n the middle of a press conference.
      They have had to invent some semblance of an economic plan to drape over his strategies and keep going down the same disastrous road by giving it a bullshit name.

      This presidency is a disaster in every way possible. Worst president in American history, hands down. Obumbles was close. Biden decided “Oh yeah? Hold my beer and watch this!”

      • MikeS

        IIRC it was a term coined by the right, and when the smallest, tiny glimpses of positives in the economy showed, they took the word and tried to reframe it as a positive.

      • Suthenboy

        That was my fuzzy memory of the origin of the term. Yes Rebel you also are correct. Bidenomics is different in that it was born of a brainfart, I think. MikeS may be more correct.

      • Rebel Scum

        I thought every president used that type of term for their economic agenda. Clintonomics, Bushnomics, Obamanomics, Trumpnomics, etc.

      • Dr. Fronkensteen

        I believe it started with Reagan as an way of left to denigrate Reagan’s policies. Reganomics

    • Urthona

      How many times are people going to fall for the government shutdown bit? We can’t be so lucky. The government will never shutdown.

      • Suthenboy

        Pols use the term because it scares most people, but it tends to give people like us a bit of a stiffie. The pols dont understand that despite most people cowering in fear when we hear ‘Government Shutdown’ we begin masturbating furiously with our eyes closed while we mutter “Government shutdown….government shutdown….government shutdown…

    • Dr. Fronkensteen

      At least he didn’t hold onto power with gnarled hands and his last breath as if clawing onto power will prevent the demons of his own creation from dragging him down to hell.

      That’s something.

    • Gustave Lytton

      Or carpetbagged his way to MA in the first place.

    • R.J.

      “His beloved Grand Old Party has been highjacked by a carnival barker with fascist leanings. ”

      No shit. McConnell needs to leave too.

    • JaimeRoberto (carnitas/spicy salsa)

      Sure, he carpetbagged, but he’s a Mormon representing a Mormon state. It seems less carpetbaggy.

      • Sensei

        So more missionary?

      • Gustave Lytton

        Fortunately there’s a religious test for political office.

  19. The Late P Brooks

    Nooooo! Not the Laffer curve!

    “I believe the Laffer curve still works, frankly,” Scott said.

    He was referring to conservative economist Art Laffer’s controversial theory that helped popularize the view that cutting taxes will unleash enough additional economic activity to generate an increase in tax revenue.

    ——-

    His plan aims to make permanent the tax cuts that were signed into law in 2017 by then-President Donald Trump. Those provisions are set to expire in 2025.

    The Laffer curve, reportedly conceived on a cocktail napkin in the 1970s, has been embraced by many in mainstream Republican circles, though its many critics will note that both conservative and liberal economists have assailed the theory.

    When challenged on whether that predicted bump in revenue would be enough to cover the loss created by the tax cuts themselves, Scott argued that the problem was overspending.

    “It’s not simply a revenue problem, it’s a spending problem,” he said on CNBC, noting that his plan aims to rein in non-defense discretionary spending to pre-pandemic levels.

    Scott’s plan would rescind the Inflation Reduction Act, the sweeping spending law that President Joe Biden contends has been critical to the inflation rate’s decline over the past year.

    The more you spend, the more you save. They all but say the Laffer curve has been debunked, but they parrot that Biden claim as if it makes perfect sense.

    And, of course Scott has to throw that “non-defense” caveat in there. We wouldn’t want those defense contractors to go hungry.

    • Suthenboy

      Controversial theory is controversial, dont’cha know? It is controversial because accurate numbers sometimes lie. Math is just a white supremacist construct, after all.
      It is known.

    • JaimeRoberto (carnitas/spicy salsa)

      Why is the Laffer Curve controversial? If the tax rate is zero, you collect zero. If the tax rate is 100%, you collect zero. Draw a curve between those two points. What could be controversial is determining whether we are on the left side of the curve where decreasing taxes decreases revenue or on the right side of the curve where decreasing taxes increases revenue.

      • UnCivilServant

        There are people who will not believe that a 100% tax rate will collect $0. Therefore, they cannot be convinced that a tax decrease might collect more revenue.

      • JaimeRoberto (carnitas/spicy salsa)

        Even if one thinks it won’t be exactly zero, which it probably won’t be, it will be a very low number. Economic activity would be greatly reduced. Much activity would be moved to the black market. Tax evasion would be massive. People need to spend a little time in a shithole country to see how these things work.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Just like political corruption and election fraud, no one things it would happen in the US of A.

  20. Mojeaux

    Let me get my Swiffer.

  21. Lachowsky

    Stupid article. The world is 6000 years old and the sun revolves around the earth. This was proven long ago and the science is settled.

    Geoccentric denier.

  22. Pine_Tree

    If y’all think being a libertarian can get lonely in the everybody-hates-me kinda way, try being a sure-enough Old Earth Creationist.

  23. The Late P Brooks

    “In America, if you’re able-bodied, you should work,” Scott said.

    Scott is consistently stuck in the low-to-mid single digits in national polls of the Republican primary race.

    That’s because he’s a race traitor. White supremacy in blackface.

    • Gustave Lytton

      In America, if you’re able-bodied, you should work,”

      Fuck you Scott and shove your Arbeit Macht Frei up your candy non-working ass. If you don’t want to work, that’s perfectly fine. But you don’t get handouts, and certainly not taxpayer funded ones. Nor do you get those if you work.

  24. The Late P Brooks

    try being a sure-enough Old Earth Creationist.

    At least the snakes love you.

  25. Certified Public Asshat

    I would pass on the Your Welcome (Michael Malice) episode with Cenk Uygur. I listened so you don’t have to.

    First 5 minutes you almost think Cenk isn’t as bas as you think. And then you find out he is worse than you think. CWAC.

    • Lachowsky

      I listened to that on my way home from work yesterday. That guy is awful. And he things progressives have been losing for the past 100 years. sheesh.

    • Dr. Fronkensteen

      I only made it about 40% of the way. I was trying to be charitable, keep an open mind, and see what other people think. You’re right. It was bad.

    • Robonerfherder

      Thanks for the warning.

      I’ll say the same thing about the Clint Russell-Dave Smith debate with the Krassenstein brothers. Jesus, what a couple of actual retards.

      • Lachowsky

        The Vaush vs Clint Russell over Ukraine was pretty bad too. Vaush takes smug ignorance to the next level.

      • Tundra

        Most of these “debates” are boring. I think it’s time to move on to cage fights or something.

      • Lachowsky

        12 rounds of bare knuckle boxing

      • Tundra

        Or tape knives to their hands. That would be cool.

      • "RFK Apologist"

        It’s easy to be smug about war when you’re not going to fight it.

    • "RFK Apologist"

      Malice needs to bring back “Night Shade”. That was a great show. Gave a good overview of foreign news and the end music was gold.

      “Your Welcome” is always good, but not as fun of a program.

      • R C Dean

        “Your Welcome”, or “You’re Welcome”?

      • Dr. Fronkensteen

        Malice spells it Your Welcome as a bit of a troll.

      • "RFK Apologist"

        “Let that be Your Welcome”

    • Tundra

      I wondered how you would react. I bailed about 10 minutes in.

      He’s a retard.

  26. The Late P Brooks

    For one thing, they won’t use 2019 as the baseline. They’ll use the depths of the lockdown. Secondly, they’ll have the media backing them up.

    We are currently awash in articles about the shocking! horrific! spike in child poverty. We can’t steal that money from those poor starving children. It’s unimagineably cruel.

    • The Other Kevin

      Somehow the poverty level has gone up in this rip roarin’ economy?

      • Urthona

        To be fair, the poverty level actually does go up when the economy is good but they use a “relative poverty” metric.

        It’s all horseshit.

      • Urthona

        i meant because.

        And no one has called up my to be fair yet.

    • R C Dean

      We’ll, maybe those poor starving children should listen to Tim Scott:

      “In America, if you’re able-bodied, you should work.”

    • Not Adahn

      Matchbook just got released for Iron Sight Handgun Nats.

      Fucking Jake, I don’t know when he gave up on naming stages, but this years is the worst.

      • Not Adahn

        Oooh!

        STARTING POSITION:
        In appropriate shooting area for each string. Handgun loaded and holstered,
        wrists below belt.

        STAGE PROCEDURE:
        String 1 – 25-yard shooting area – Upon the audible start signal, from within
        the shooting area, engage targets with only two rounds, then perform a
        mandatory reload and then reengage targets with only two rounds.

        String 2 – 15-yard shooting area – Upon the audible start signal, from within
        the shooting area, engage targets with only one round, then perform a mandatory
        reload and then reengage targets with only one round Strong Hand Only.

        String 3 – 10-yard shooting area – Upon the audible start signal, from within
        the shooting area, engage targets with only one round, then perform a mandatory
        reload and then reengage targets with only one round Weak Hand Only.

        SCORING: Fixed Time
        TARGETS: 3 USPSA | ROUNDS: 18

      • EvilSheldon

        That’s gonna chap some asses.

        How long is the time limit?

      • Not Adahn

        It doesn’t say.

        Even freestyle, 25 yards is going to take time and I can’t just hammer doubles and have them both land at that range.

      • Not Adahn

        In the matchbook, the targets are open. Who knows if that will stay.

  27. Suthenboy

    Problem with understanding the cosmos:

    We learn and understand by making analogies with phenomena we understand to things that are new to us. The first thing, first experiences we have, are ourselves. therefore all of our understanding grows from that. We have an innate tendency to anthropomorphize everything we have experience with.

    We are born, we wind our way down the path of life, then we die. Just because we have a beginning and an end with a plot sandwiched between those, we assume everything, including the cosmos, does also.
    That is simply not necessarily true. Big Bang? I never bought it. Heat death of the universe? I never bought it.
    The professor mentioned above that said “Here is what we know and it is probably all wrong” is probably right.
    We evolved as critters that needed to understand hot and cold as we experience it, time as we experience it, range as our need to estimate travel distances by foot or how far a spear can be thrown. Our understanding of those things served us well but I dont think it expands well to encompass a cosmological understanding.
    Math helps quite a bit, but alas it also is an imperfect analogy.

    I could expand this point exponentially but for now I will stick to that pitiful little nutshell.

    *how many analogies did I use in that blurt?*

    *Glances at TV, sees two ads. One is of two cars, headlights for eyes, grills for mouths, discussing their favorite oil change shops. Next, a whiskey bottle dressed in a tuxedo dancing to light jazz*

    We are geocentric and anthropocentric in a lot of senses because we evolved to be such.

    • R.J.

      You have awesome commercials. It’s all drug ads here. Occasionally the Kwik Seal guy.

    • Lachowsky

      ultimately, the universe is too large and too alien for humans to understand. Reminds me of the fake alien mummies. They tested their DNA to get a date. Who says aliens would even have DNA? What are the odds that they would be oddly humanish in form or even bipedal? just because all we know about is carbon based life, there is no guarantee that is the norm in the universe.

      It impossible for us to predict earth’s climate accurately and we live here. Thinking we have the first clue about the universe is hubris.

  28. The Late P Brooks

    Somehow the poverty level has gone up in this rip roarin’ economy?

    Pandemic giveaways have expired, throwing millions of children into grinding poverty.

    • Urthona

      haha. And I’m pretty sure welfare doesn’t count in the metric either, right? That’s another funny one. No matter how much welfare you receive you’ll be at the exact same level of poverty.

      I expect inflation is the biggest cause because the gap between 0 and employed has only grown.

      • R.J.

        Poverty now means having food most every day, new shoes and clothes to wear, and a school to attend if you are a child. That may feel rough at times, but it is far from poverty. Heck, most people even have access to air conditioning / heating.

      • Urthona

        Almost all Americans in poverty own a smart phone, most Americans in poverty own a car, and 40% of Americans in poverty own a house .

  29. kinnath

    Hunter Biden indicted on federal firearms charges in long-running probe weeks after plea deal failed

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Hunter Biden was indicted Thursday on federal firearms charges, the latest and weightiest step yet in a long-running investigation into the president’s son.

    Biden is accused of lying about his drug use when he bought a firearm in October 2018, a period when he has acknowledged struggling with addiction to crack cocaine, according to the indictment filed in federal court in Delaware by a special counsel overseeing the case.

    Felony gun charges

    • Not Adahn

      Anyone know how many DE/DC gun laws he violated that nobody is asking quesitons about?

      • kinnath

        Well, this only covers the crimes that he videotaped for the world to see.

      • Urthona

        It doesn’t even come close right?

    • kinnath

      He’s charged with two counts of making false statements by checking a box falsely saying he was not a user of or addicted to drugs and a third count for possessing the gun as a drug user.

      What maneuvering will be required to make this go away?

    • Dr. Fronkensteen

      Nothing more than a political witch-hunt.

    • Urthona

      He should simply point out that all gun laws are unconstitutional.

      • kinnath

        His attorneys told the prosecutor they would challenge the gun law if he was charged.

        I look forward to Biden arguing that SCOTUS has said that these laws are unconstitutional.

      • Urthona

        Me as well.

    • Lachowsky

      bullshit charge couldn’t happen to a better guy. you reap what you sow, biden.

    • Sensei

      I’d love to know how hard they pressed that to the grand jury.

      I’m imagining them trying to present it in the absolutely weakest and most favorable terms possible to Biden to them to return no bill.

    • R C Dean

      Wake me up when he’s convicted of or pleads to a felony.

      This is a lay down win on the facts. The prosecutor shouldn’t even entertain a misdemeanor deal. He admitted in public to being a crackhead when he bought the gun. Maybe give him a somewhat reduced sentence if he pleads guilty to the felony, to de-risk having to go to a jury with partisan morons on it.

      • kinnath

        This is a lay down win on the facts.

        It’s all out in the public view. The book. The videos.

        I am trying to see how the prosecutor manages to lose this on purpose.

      • Sensei

        You are thinking like the prosecutor actually wants justice and a win here.

      • prolefeed

        You left out the fact that he knows someone with a moderate amount of political clout looking to make any consequences go away

        It would be fucking hilarious if the only way to avoid jail time was for POTUS to declare that that particular gun law was unconstitutional, and that they would press Congress to remove it from the books.

  30. Lachowsky

    When is the housing bubble gonna pop. My wife and I are looking to build and I aint starting shit until I hear a pop.

    • Urthona

      Just after the election.

      • R.J.

        Ain’t that the truth.

    • Tundra

      We’re about a year late, but constricted supply and negative incentives for builders are keeping things high.

    • prolefeed

      If I knew stuff like when a market bubble would pop, I would be so insanely rich and having such a good time that I wouldn’t have time for this site.

      So I’m gonna go with, “I have no fucking idea.”

      • Urthona

        Liar. Which of your beachside manors did you write this from?

    • Not Adahn

      A second Genesis?

      KHAAAAAAAN!!

    • Urthona

      Unless Peter Gabriel is in this one, not interested.

      • Tundra

        No love for Phil, huh?

  31. The Late P Brooks

    His attorneys told the prosecutor they would challenge the gun law if he was charged.

    I look forward to Biden arguing that SCOTUS has said that these laws are unconstitutional.

    Hasn’t a precedent already been established?

    • creech

      So bring charges for the one “crime” that can’t be connected to Dr. Jill’s husband. Then loudly proclaim how you’ve not treated Hunter any differently than Joe Schmoe.

    • Lachowsky

      thats good stuff

  32. Tonio

    Okay, the links are forthcoming. I had to “jiggle the handle” (h/t Neph) on the scheduling.

    • Sean

      Whose handle?