Stoic Friday XCII

by | Dec 13, 2024 | Advice, LifeSkills, Musings, Stoic | 120 comments

Last Week

Meditations

How to Be a Stoic

How to Think Like a Roman Emperor

Seneca’s Letters from a Stoic

If you have anger issues, this one is a great tool (h/t mindyourbusiness)

This week’s book:

Discourses and Selected Writings

Disclaimer: I’m not your Supervisor. These are my opinions after reading through these books a few times.

Epictetus was born a slave around 50 ad. His owner was Epaphroditus, a rich freedman who was once a slave of Nero. Though he was a slave Epictetus was sent to study philosophy under Musonius Rufus.

Epictetus was lame and there are some stories it was caused by his master and others that it was caused by disease.

He was a freedman when all philosophers were banished from Rome in 89 by the Emperor Domitian. He then started his school in Greece, and had many students. He did not leave any writings from his lessons, but one of his students, Flavius Arrian, took notes and wrote the Discourses.

Epictetus did not marry, had no children, and lived to be around 80-85. In retirement, he adopted a child that would have been abandoned and raised him with a woman.

He died sometime around AD 135.

He is my favorite Stoic teacher. I love his bare bones and very straight forward approach.

Following is a paragraph-by-paragraph discussion of one of his lessons. Epictetus’s text appears in bold, my replies are in normal text.

To those who enter lightheartedly upon the profession of lecturing Part I

Those who have learned the principles and nothing else are eager to throw them up immediately,[1] just as persons with a weak stomach throw up their food. First digest your principles, and then you will surely not throw them up this way. Otherwise they are mere vomit, foul stuff[† 1] and unfit to eat. But after you have digested these principles, show us some change in your governing principle that is due to them; as the athletes show their shoulders as the results of their exercising and eating, and as those who have mastered the arts can show the results of their learning. The builder does not come forward and say, “Listen to me deliver a discourse about the art of building”; but he takes a contract for a house, builds it, and thereby proves that he possesses the art. 5Do something of the same sort yourself too; eat as a man, drink as a man, adorn yourself, marry, get children, be active as a citizen; endure reviling, and bear with an unreasonable brother, father, son, neighbor, fellow-traveler. Show us that you can do these things, for us to see that in all truth you have learned something of the philosophers. No, but “Come and listen to me deliver my comments,” you say. Go to! Look for people on whom to throw up! “Yes, but I will set forth to you the doctrines of Chrysippus as no one else can; his language I will analyze so as to make it perfectly clear; possibly I will throw in a bit of the vivacity of Antipater and Archedemus.”[2]

If I don’t have a solid understanding of what I believe and why, I should not be offering advice and opinions. I feel confident in my advice when it comes to cars, or marriage, but I don’t really have anything for my son when he asks me about dating issues. Even Stoicism is not something I would feel comfortable in trying to advise somebody with. While I will dicuss strategies for dealing with their issue, I would not come right out and say, “You should be a Stoic and it will help”. Instead I try to encourage him to not get upset about the things he doesn’t control.

And then it’s for this, is it, that the young men are to leave their fatherlands and their own parents,—to come and listen to you interpreting trifling phrases? Ought they not to be, when they return home, forbearing, ready to help one another, tranquil, with a mind at peace, possessed of some such provision for the journey of life, that, starting out with it, they will be able to bear well whatever happens, and to derive honor from it? 10And where did you get the ability to impart to them these things which you do not possess yourself? Why, from the first did you ever do anything but wear yourself out over the question how solutions can be found for syllogisms, for the arguments that involve equivocal premises, and those which derive syllogisms by the process of interrogation?[3]

Any advice I have given over the years has been based on real ideas and experiences. I do not think in theoretical ways in real life. I am pretty sure that following my advice would lead to happier and healthier life. I have known people that would only give advice that sounds good to the person asking or say things like “you deserve to be happy”. That kind of advice is vapid and useless.

 “But So-and-so lectures; why shouldn’t I too?” Slave, these things are not done recklessly, nor at random, but one ought to be of a certain age, and lead a certain kind of life, and have God as his guide. You say: No. But no man sails out of a harbour without first sacrificing to the gods and invoking their aid, nor do men sow hit-or-miss, but only after first calling upon Demeter; and yet will a man, if he has laid his hand to so great a task as this without the help of the gods, be secure in so doing, and will those who come to him be fortunate in so coming? What else are you doing, man, but vulgarizing the Mysteries, and saying, “There is a chapel at Eleusis; see, there is one here too. There is a hierophant (interpreter of sacred mysteries and arcane principles) there; I too will make a hierophant. There is a herald there; I too will appoint a herald. There is a torch-bearer there; I too will have a torch-bearer. There are torches there; and here too. The words said are the same; and what is the difference between what is done here and what is done there?”? Most impious man, is there no difference? Are the same acts helpful, if they are performed at the wrong place and at the wrong time? Nay, but a man ought to come also with a sacrifice,[† 2] and with prayers, and after a preliminary purification, and with his mind predisposed to the idea that he will be approaching holy rites, and holy rites of great antiquity. 

Getting advice from someone with no experience is a fool’s errand. I would not be comfortable giving advice in the areas I have no experience in. Even the areas I do have the experience, my expertise is limited. I can help with someone trying to be a better man or husband, but if I was asked how to deal with an awful spouse, I don’t think I have much to say that could be helpful. I could try to copy things I have heard, but I wouldn’t have any experience to back it up. Trying to sound important by impressing other people with false knowledge was never something I was drawn to.

I am in New jersey for work again and will be driving home on Friday. My wife will be coming home on the 19th, so I will be cleaning the house over the weekend. So far we have all survived my cooking for 7 weeks now, and I did figure out how to do laundry. Last time she left for this long, I didn’t cook this much, so I’m pleasantly surprised at how much my cooking skills have improved. I am sure though that we will clean the house to the best of our ability and she will still spend a couple days cleaning everything better than we did.

About The Author

ron73440

ron73440

What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade MOLON LABE

120 Comments

  1. UnCivilServant

    I didn’t cook this much, so I’m pleasantly surprised at how much my cooking skills have improved.

    Practice makes perfect.

    • Sean

      The smoke alarm only went off twice!

      • Ownbestenemy

        If they didn’t, you ain’t cooking…you’re reheating.

      • UnCivilServant

        The smoke alarm only went off twice!

        That stopped when I put a grease tray over the bottom heating element on the air fryer to catch drippings.

      • UnCivilServant

        Dammit! Now I want air fryer wings.

        Oh hey, it’s a friday. I can swing by the butcher on my way home, pick up some chicken and I’m golden. (And it’ll be golden brown)

      • Fourscore

        Recently my wife fell asleep with something on the stove. I had to rush up the stairs (rushing for me isn’t the same as rushing for most people) and rescue the burned up pan. I berated her but not too much. A minor foul, a minor chastisement. It took several days for the burned odor to leave the house though.

      • UnCivilServant

        If I don’t set a timer, I risk forgetting I’ve got something boiling/in the oven/etc.

        If I don’t have to stand over it, I set a timer to remind me to check before it’s too late.

      • slumbrew

        I did that just this week – I put butter in a cast iron pan and then went to check Ozzy’s article for “just a minute”.

        The butter solids appear to be a permanent part of the pan now.

      • UnCivilServant

        You didn’t make a mistake. You seasoned the pan.

      • juris imprudent

        In our house in San Diego that was our joke about when you knew whatever you were broiling was done – the smoke alarms went off. Then we put in updated ovens and a gas cooktop with a really good ventilation system. I wish our current house had ventilation as good as what we had there.

    • EvilSheldon

      And being hungry makes perfect-er!

      • Mojeaux

        Hunger is the best sauce.

  2. Suthenboy

    So the iron law: the less you know about something the easier it looks.

    I was just lectured by a fake lawyer on TeeVee. Only true speech needs protecting. False speech does not. The example regarded libel but was expanded to include all speech, also was depicted as a criminal matter not a civil one.
    What is it with the entertainment industry being eaten the fuck up with commies?

    • Ownbestenemy

      The goal is to make everything illegal unless otherwise deemed legal by our betters.

      Makes things soo much easier

    • UnCivilServant

      the less you know about something the easier it looks.

      That’s strange, because I always figure the stuff that’s easy to me (because I’ve put in tons of time and effort learning/practicing/etc) must be easy for everyone else. After all, I managed it, so it can’t be that difficult… can it?

      • R C Dean

        See, that’s stuff you know a lot about, so you know how to do it – it doesn’t look easy to you, it is easy for you. It’s the stuff you don’t a lot about and don’t know how to do, that looks easy.

      • Muzzled Woodchipper

        Yep.

        Like watching a good athlete. Ozzie Smith made playing shortstop look easy to those who’ve never picked up a baseball.

      • Suthenboy

        Well Uncivil, that is the other side of that coin. It is also the other side of the Dunn Kruger coin. It is a normal healthy perspective even if not correct. Hmmm, let me put it a different way: I would rather live next door to you than the guy who is convinced he is amazing and special.

      • UnCivilServant

        I would rather live next door to you than the guy who is convinced he is amazing and special.

        I thought it was because I’m a shut-in who doesn’t talk to my neighbors and thus won’t bother you.

      • Fourscore

        My daughter’s ex-husband knew everything about everything and was not reluctant to expound.

        I had to retrain him every weekend if he was going to help me work on my house.

  3. Fourscore

    “What you should do is….”

    I have a friend that is quick with that, I know immediately to disregard everything after that. I’ve heard him say that to his grown up kids, kids that are doing well in life.

    I am able to make my own mistakes and hopefully learn something from that.

    Thanks Ron, always ready for your stuff on Friday.

    • Muzzled Woodchipper

      “What you should do is…”

      Leave the fucking conversation because it’s about to get really stupid.

  4. Ownbestenemy

    OBE rants of the day.

    MIL asks wife what I want for my b-day. She says a quality chinois.

    MIL I’ll get him a jacket.

    Furthermore MIL: where would you like to go for bday dinner?

    Me: This place

    MIL: I made reservations for somewhere else.

    Why even ask me or Mrs OBE then?

    • Mojeaux

      Because it’s not about you. It’s about her.

      • Nephilium

        To some people, they think being thoughtful and courteous to someone is that the forms were followed. Not that you actually should consider the other people’s opinions.

      • Ownbestenemy

        Luckily through life experience I’ve learned to roll with the punches. Our oldest flips out about this regarding his grandma.

      • Mojeaux

        Pay attention to the things people give you as gifts. If they give you something you don’t like, it means they bought what THEY like. If you pay attention, you know what you can get them that THEY like if you’re giving them gifts.

        My boss’s wife was really into cookie jars. She gave me one of her most prized ones for some reason I don’t remember, but she was really enthusiastic. It was HIDEOUS. I thanked her profusely and graciously because she’d given it from her heart, but I didn’t want it in my home or cluttering up my storage. I’m very particular about what I want to display and a fan of empty spaces. I knew who would LOVE it, though, so I re-gifted it, and I was right. Voila, made two people happy.

    • UnCivilServant

      Furthermore MIL: where would you like to go for bday dinner?

      Me: This place

      MIL: I made reservations for somewhere else.

      Go to This Place anyway.

      • Muzzled Woodchipper

        Yep.

        Birthday dinners are one of the few sacred things in the Muzzled household. It’s absolutely unthinkable that someone else would dictate birthday dinner other than birthday person.

    • Ownbestenemy

      Of course I’ll be gracious for it all.

      I cannot be otherwise…my momma raised a good boy and my grandma would get a free pass from Jesus to come back and smack me around otherwise.

      • Muzzled Woodchipper

        Publicly gracious. Absolutely.

        Privately I’d be asking my wife WTF is wrong with her mother.

      • Muzzled Woodchipper

        Also, like me, didn’t you also marry a furriner? South American customs are definitely different than American ones. I’d still be asking WTF, but I also get it.

      • Ownbestenemy

        If by Kentucky furriner then yes.

    • The Other Kevin

      You could be strategic about the dinner, and next time say “I made reservations at This Place.”

      But it sounds like you’re more like me. Unless it’s some place I absolutely hate (which is pretty rare), I’m just happy I get a gift and have a nice dinner with the people I want to be around.

      • R C Dean

        “the people I want to be around”

        Did you miss the MIL part?

      • Ownbestenemy

        Well…I mean…I will never put anything otherwise in writing.

      • The Other Kevin

        I’m spoiled. My MIL is the kindest soul I know. I actually choose to spend time with her. But I forget it’s not like that for most people.

      • Muzzled Woodchipper

        By all accounts, my MIL was a mostly kind woman.

        But I sailed onboard the USS This Is Your Lucky Day for marriage as all of my in laws are foreign and didn’t really speak English, and I didn’t speak enough Portuguese when they were alive to really talk with them.

        I never had to have a real conversation with either of them.

      • Mojeaux

        My husband was functionally estranged from his family when he stopped drinking and went back to church. Nothing happened, per se. They just had nothing in common anymore. His mother was dead. His father had always been distant. Then he moved from SoCal to SLC to Evanston, and then to here to marry me. His stepmother (my MIL) kind of brought everybody together and accepted our kids as her own grandchildren. Then his dad died, so she’s the only one of his family left except his sisters. I do love my MIL, but she’s in SoCal and I’m here and we have a FB relationship and we send gift cards for birthday and Christmas and it’s lovely for everyone involved. My husband was welcomed into my family with open arms and my mom got broken in as a MIL by my two sisters-in-law (not without hurt feelings, but whatever). So, I also got lucky.

      • Nephilium

        The girlfriend’s family liked me (hell, I got drafted to be a pallbearer for two of them), but we did not have much in common. Nearly all have passed, except for an aunt who lives in LA.

    • slumbrew

      “I want it to be a surprise!”

    • Drake

      Someplace where you pay the bill.

  5. Ownbestenemy

    Any advice I have given over the years has been based on real ideas and experiences

    Every parent in the world nods quietly and with stoic demeanor

  6. PutridMeat

    Thanks, Ron.

    One quibble:

    Trying to sound important by impressing other people with false knowledge was never something I was drawn to.

    In the spirit of not assuming the worst about people, or impugn their motives, I might phrase that as trying to help, rather than ‘sound important’ or ‘impress other people’. Like all help it might be misguided, but the motivation may be ‘pure’. And in fact, even if you don’t have direct experience or knowledge of a thing, you may have heard different perspectives and ideas that you can mention that might guide a person to a solution for their problem.

    • Muzzled Woodchipper

      Also, “Fake it till you make it” is real.

  7. Muzzled Woodchipper

    It’s hard to remain stoic when you see people doing shit like this….

    https://fb.watch/wsclcgjvfp/?

    I mean, who doesn’t want bugs crawling all over your nether regions after dropping a deuce?

  8. kinnath

    https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/young-workers-being-fired-in-droves-in-shocking-trend-worldwide-problem-010102911.html

    Young workers being fired in droves in ‘shocking’ trend: ‘Worldwide problem’

    Nearly two-thirds of the 1,000 respondents said they believed Gen Z were “entitled”, while 63 per cent thought they “[got] offended too easily”, 55 per cent thought they lacked work ethic and 54 per cent said they didn’t respond well to feedback.

    Getting fired is a healthy learning experience.

    • Muzzled Woodchipper

      Yep.

      But you need to be capable of learning those lessons first. It’s still an unknown as to whether this coddled ass generation can learn or whether they’ll just deflect blame like their universities taught them to do.

      • kinnath

        I doubt most of these people will learn from their first exposure to being fired.

      • EvilSheldon

        Judging by the comments, I’m not hopeful.

      • Tundra

        Right. Just like every single generation has thought about the ones coming behind them.

        I have two Zs out in the real world and I am impressed with them and their pals. Their bullshit detectors work great and their cynicism is nearly GenX level.

        I keep hearing this crap about the Zs but I like them. And we certainly have provided them with plenty of challenges.

      • kinnath

        I’ve an engineer for almost 40 years now.

        I’ve had the pleasure of watching GenX, GenY, and GenZ enter the field as new grads.

        GenZ is definitely different. As a class, they are less prepared and are less capable that previous generations. For any given class, of course, there are many exceptions. But the trends are clear.

    • PutridMeat

      Is this the long prophesied “wait until they get into the real world” I’ve been promised?

    • R C Dean

      I’ve been fired, well, several times. I can’t think of one where I wasn’t better off, in the medium-to-long term at least, for getting shown the door.

      • Sensei

        Me too.

        I have also been professionally laid off and hold no ill will against my former employer.

      • UnCivilServant

        My ill-will towards the employer who laid me off was entirely around being swapped out for less capable people who were simply very cheap. The need for the work didn’t go away, but they were willing to sacrifice customer service quality and positive resolutions for the sake of short term gains.

        As for me, meh, I was out of work for six months. I survived and got a new job.

      • Mojeaux

        I finally just decided to be a temp forever because eventually, everybody gets tired of me or I fuck something up.

      • UnCivilServant

        Have you thought about government work?

      • Mojeaux

        Yes and I had one. Once.

      • Drake

        The one where a Senior Director in the Strategy Group had offered me a job a month+ earlier but I couldn’t take it because they implemented a freeze. That was a job I wanted and was pretty pissed getting shown the door instead.

      • Fourscore

        I fired a young woman for blatant theft and associated shortcomings. It was an easy fire because of the circumstances. She later listed us as a reference on another job. Tougher were the incompetents. I fired one guy whose father was a friend. The youngster took it well, saying, “I’ve been fired from other jobs before”. A month later he committed suicide. I did not take it well.

        My standard answer always was “I wouldn’t hire her (him)” back.

      • Gender Traitor

        I was let go (with enough notice to get a new gig) two jobs ago. My boss was the only son of the owner, and the owner’s assistant assured me it was because boss/son wanted to replace me with (and mess around with) the new receptionist.

        Next job I was a permatemp, and when I figured out they were never going to hire me directly nor deal with the problem coworker who made my life hell, I started looking for another job. Came to the credit union, and in March I’ll hit 25 years here. And my boss insists I’m not allowed to retire until he does.

    • Nephilium

      I was just thinking on this the other day. I’ve only been fired from one job, which was a part time job in a Discovery Zone (think Chuck E. Cheese) which went out of business. Other than that, I’ve left every other job I’ve had on my own terms.

      • slumbrew

        I was sort of fired from my part-time job in high-school (senioritis kicked in and I missed a shift or two – but I was going to be done in a month anyway).

        I think that’s it – I’ve been at a dot-bomb that closed down but I was kept after everyone else was laid off in order to wind things down (I wish I had been layed-off – no severance for me :-/. But all the Aerons I wanted).

        I do sometimes think I may be underpaid, compared to my peers, but I remain uncertain – hard to find a good comparison.

        On the plus side, I’ve sailed through many RIFs, so maybe being a good value has its upside.

      • Nephilium

        slumbrew:

        Yeah, I’m also in a niche role at this point, so it’s hard to find comparable positions. I have managed to switch jobs twice doing the same thing, both came with healthy bumps in salary. I’ve also been spared by RIF’s at all three companies, so I’ve got that going for me.

      • Fourscore

        I worked as a temp for Manpower. I was sent out on two different jobs, both places hired me permanently. It was their way of screening.

      • kinnath

        That’s how my wife got her current position. Temped into the company. After 6 months, she was hired permanently. She then worked her way up the ladder.

      • UnCivilServant

        I have to assume nobody will hire me for anything approaching what I make.

        What good is a lazy schlub with unix admin/networking/peoplesoft/batch automation/scripting/systems integration/management experince anyway.

    • Shpip

      As Mojeaux put it some time back:

      “And then everything collapses because the people running it are empty shells of human beings. They make nothing important, they contribute nothing of value, they know nothing of worth.”

      • Mojeaux

        Wait, whu? I said that?

  9. Sensei

    I am in New jersey for work again and will be driving home on Friday.

    I’ll wave as you go by!

    • creech

      Watch out for those enemy drones!

      • Sensei

        With Ron leaving I assume they’ll stop.

  10. Not Adahn

    Apparently Pelosi got too close to a church. But she’s still corporeal.

    • Ted S.

      She was exorcized?

    • Aloysious

      She had a fucky-fuck session with Cocaine Mitch.

      It left a mark on both of them.

      • Drake

        That image left a mark on my mind.

  11. Sensei

    RC from your questioning comment in the prior post about how to determine minority judiciary make better decisions…

    My assumption would be they looked at appeals and reversals. It’s relatively easy for an academic to categorize and quantify.

    It also means fuck all as we all know.

    • R C Dean

      I thought of that after clicking. I’d love to see their actual research, though.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Operational definitions for the win, if you skew those enough you can prove almost anything.

      • Sensei

        Same reason some very good quality surgeons have high mortality. They take cases nobody else wants to touch.

        You can’t look at numbers without context.

  12. Not Adahn

    Get to take the new gun (Sig P322) out shooting steel this weekend! This is definitely the longest I’ve ever had a gun in my possession before doing something useful with it.

    • R C Dean

      .22 caliber? That should be fun. Quick look online shows they are optics ready and can take a suppressor(!), which would have course cost more than the actual firearm.

      • Not Adahn

        So, I got this at a steep discount as the result of working a match held at/sponsored by Sig Sauer Academy. Since the discount was a percentage, I wanted to get the model that came with the comp and dot installed. Unfortunately they did not have a SKU for that gun with 10 rd mags OR that gun without any mags, just with 15 rounders. So once they saw my ID they refused to sell it to me.

        After tax and transfer fee, the base model cost me $212.

      • Not Adahn

        At 2023 CO Nats I got to play with one and liked it. Of course, it had a can on it…

      • EvilSheldon

        Not to criticize – It’s been a while since that article, and SIG has probably made some changes to the lineup. Let us know how it does.

  13. cyto

    Quote of the day comes from The Tick, ep. 7, Warburton live action edition.

    “Are you needy? No. What you are is wanty. There is a difference.”

    • Ownbestenemy

      Be curious if she’d had left off the “you’re next” part if they would have gone with those same charges?

      Even with that said…is it a chargeable offense?

      • Sensei

        Enough for trial and $100k bail. Hence my first comment.

        In NJ that would be 10% cash.

    • Don escaped Memphis

      I keep writing it here: free speech absolutism is the only thing that works

      everything else is bureaucracy, judgment calls, and, inevitably, overreach

      maybe I should start calling it common-sense language control

  14. Not Adahn

    Apparently the installation of my replacement power steering rack is not going well.

    • Tundra

      Fasteners?

      • Not Adahn

        No idea. The service manager said he was going to let the tech “cool down for a bit” before he asked about whether nor not I’d have the car back today.

      • Sean

        The service manager said he was going to let the tech “cool down for a bit”

        He’s gonna go smoke a bowl.

      • Not Adahn

        Quote: “he’s having trouble getting it threaded on.”

      • Not Adahn

        “The power steering module’s gone corrupt. Just like our government!”

      • Not Adahn

        Listening to the guy you linked, it makes me feel better about what the dealer is charging me.

      • Sensei

        That’s our Eric O. Not a fan of NYS and he lets folk know.

        Perfect small town shop and business and a very good tech.

      • Tundra

        Yikes. That doesn’t look good.

  15. The Late P Brooks

    Apparently the installation of my replacement power steering rack is not going well.

    They have to take the subframe off?

    • The Other Kevin

      Then a ton of Biden officials are going to be admitting guilt very soon.

      • Nephilium

        /looks over at Hunter

    • The Other Kevin

      Couldn’t the DOJ just drop the cases that are still open?

      • Sean

        *falls out of chair*

        Oh my god! They’d never let that happen.

      • kinnath

        Dropping a case doesn’t preclude picking it back up late (after OMB is gone).

        A blanket pardon is the only way to end things permanently.

    • R C Dean

      By accepting a pardon, you “make a confession of guilt”?

      Haven’t the J6ers already been convicted, for the most part?

      As for the pending cases, why not just issue a general pardon like Hunter got without specifying any particular charges? In that case, there’s nothing to admit guilt to, by accepting the pardon.

      • R C Dean

        One more thought: maybe this is why he is going with commuting the sentence for a lot of the J6ers.

  16. The Late P Brooks

    Plutocrat conniving

    Donald Trump’s transition team will make a recommendation that would sabotage the government’s ability to investigate and regulate the safety of self-driving vehicles like those Elon Musk’s company is developing, according to a new report.

    Reuters obtained a document developed as part of a 100-day strategy showing the recommendation to spike a crash-reporting requirement opposed by Musk’s company Tesla, which has accounted for 40 out of 45 fatal crashes involving automated-driving systems reported to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).

    It’s not clear what role Musk, the world’s wealthiest person and a close adviser to Trump after pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into his re-election campaign, played in developing the recommendation.

    Make America Deadly Again.

    • R.J.

      Investigate, regulate, masturbate. This is the bureaucrat screed.