GlibFin ep. 2: Attack of the Loans

by | Jul 28, 2020 | Finance | 311 comments

Episode I

When last we met, I gave you a broad overview of my family’s journey into a pit of financial ruin, and a rundown of Dave Ramsey’s baby steps, which we used to dig out of the hole. Today you get the gory details. Next time, I’ll take the opportunity to talk budgeting and to explain how we differed from Dave when in Baby Step 2 (the debt paydown phase)

Summer and fall 2013 were a whirlwind. Wife and I got married memorial day weekend, and she moved into my apartment in the Dallas suburb of Plano. I had recently been accepted to SMU law school’s (now defunct) evening program, and was working as a telecom software engineer during the day, making around $63k. Wife was working as an admin in a research clinic of a local hospital, making about $28k.

Really, though, to understand the situation, we need to go back a few months to 2012. I had just received my LSAT score and was looking for schools to attend. Technically, there was nothing holding us down. We could’ve moved anywhere in the country to do law school, but I had a good thing going at work, hoped to get in with their patents team, and didn’t want to get stuck in some coastal city just because they have a good law school.

My LSAT score could get me in almost everywhere short of Harvard, Yale, and Columbia. I was simply too white, male, and straight to get in there without a perfect 180 score, and my 174 didnt cut it. It didn’t help that my degree was in Computer Engineering, so my GPA was a lackluster 3.45. That made the rest of the top 10 schools difficult to get into, especially when accounting for scholarship. The scholarship part is essential, because everybody knows that you just don’t pay sticker price for law school.

A STEM 3.45/174 gets you pretty far in that second set of 10 schools, and even more so for the rest of the schools in the top tier (top 50 schools). Common advice for people in my situation would have been to broadly apply to schools 8-25, and select the best scholarship package received from that group. See, law is very prestige based, and opportunities available to the average student at Columbia arent available to the average student at Emory. There’s a whole tiering system and a whole lot of bullshit used to justify this whole prestige system, but all that matters is that the rankings of the schools do loosely correlate to likelihood of a good outcome.

I, having no clue about all of that, selected 3 schools to apply to, two in-state (Texas and SMU) , and a third reach school (Virginia) that I was going to leverage to get more in-state money.  I applied to them all, but I was pretty well locked in on SMU. Their evening program meant that I could work my engineering job and cash flow school. Being local meant that we didn’t have to move. Being the premier school in Dallas meant being able to get any law job in the Metroplex.

Immediately I was accepted to SMU. The evening program has lower standards than the full time program, and I was well qualified. They offered me the maximum non-competitive scholarship, which was 50% tuition. What I didn’t realize was that it wasn’t negotiable. Texas responded next, with a 1/3 scholarship, which I used (in combination with their in-state discount) to try to get SMU to up the ante a bit. “Nope, there are two full scholarships, here’s the application form”

Spoiler alert, I didn’t get one.

Finally was UVA, who were obviously unsure whether to admit me. From them, I received a very late “are you still on the market?” message well after I had accepted SMU’s offer.

So, SMU was the choice, and the evening program was the way I was going to do it. This is probably my biggest regret from the entire period, because while I ended up where I wanted to be, the journey was very costly financially and otherwise. Texas would’ve ended up cheaper, would’ve let me enjoy school, and would’ve been a much happier experience than I had at SMU, in hindsight. On the other hand, there are some things that can only be learned through pain, and I’m grateful for what was learned.

SMU law school was approximately $45k per year for 3 years (cost is the same for the 4 year evening program). Adding on some tuition inflation, books and ancillary costs, and I had estimated the total cost at $165k. Subtract out $70k in scholarships, and there was a $95k bill that needed to be paid over 4 years.

We needed to free up roughly $25k a year to cash flow law school. Not easy, but not impossible on around $90k a year. Just a bit of focus and a bit of sacrifice, and we come out 4 years later with minimal to no debt and a biglaw job making a zillion dollars.

So, how did we end up with a quarter million dollar hole 3.5 years later? Well, I’ll bullet point it so that it doesn’t turn into a 5 part article. As Dave says, there’s plenty of stupid going on here.

  • We decided to “save money” and buy a house November 2013. The down payment was the tuition money for spring 2014.
  • My wife quit her job and took a lower paying job in spring 2014, reducing our income by about $10k
  • I quit my job in summer 2014 and took a job in a law firm, making more per hour, but technically working part time, meaning thaty income was all over the place
  • Wife began traveling regularly to run half marathons, usually at $750-1000 a pop
  • I gained 70 lbs my 1L year eating restaurant and fast food because I couldn’t be bothered to pack a dinner
  • Wife got fed up that her car kept breaking down and demanded a (used) new car ($22,000) in Feb 2015
  • I was spiteful and got rid of my older and jankier car to buy a (new) new car ($32,000) in May 2015
  • I took some non-law classes summer 2015 that weren’t covered by scholarship
  • I quit my law firm job in April 2016 to work for the company I ended up at.
  • I accelerated my degree program by a semester, which increased the cost, but not the scholarship
  • I spent a summer (2016) in Palo Alto California making good money and blowing it all on a mortgage in TX plus living expenses in CA
  • Wife took another pay cut to get out of a bad job into something she liked better, at the cost of it being a part-time job
  • I worked an unpaid internship in Fall 2016 because nobody wanted to hire a law student for a single semester just to have them jump ship after 3 months
  • We moved halfway across the country on our own dime to a higher cost of living area, and bought a house that was nearly twice as expensive as our first house, but a worse house overall.
  • Obamacare (*spits*) didn’t allow us to charge some pregnancy Dr visits to insurance because of a mandatory two week delay between when we got our new address and when we could get insurance in VA. This cost us over $1000

Obviously, a lot of the story is skimmed over here, but there’s plenty of emotional baggage that we still hold about that time in our life. A lot of growth happened, and I had to find my voice in the relationship.

Walking into the office of my new job in March 2017, I had a boat anchor around my neck, and my wife and I had just come to terms with the size of that anchor. $255k non-mortgage debt. $180k student loans, $50k cars, $25k credit cards. My wife was making about $15k a year, and I was making 10x that, so at least we had a big shovel, but, to be frank, I didn’t trust that my wife could sustain the intensity required to dig us out of the debt. An ultimatum resulted. Get on board, or prepare to have every single account shut down. Thankfully, it didn’t come to that.

There was no one decision that sent us off the deep end. Sure, the choice of school was the closest to that pivotal choice as we encountered, but our fate wasn’t sealed until years later. Looking back, it was the times of hopelessness where our fate was sealed. Those days where I angrily fumed because I couldn’t. find. the. words. to make my wife understand how much I hated what we had become. When we were talking past one another and feeling like there was no way out except to go our separate ways. I so badly wish that I could go back to that person and tell him to grow a pair and be the leader his wife needs him to be. Say the hurtful things that need to be said. Do the uncomfortable things that need to be done. Death may be by 1000 cuts, but we could’ve avoided years of sacrifice by cutting the crap and being honest with one another.

We racked up the debt on the back of “I deserve” and “I earned it.” There were plenty of “I’m sure we can afford it” and “I can’t do without it”. More than a few “I just don’t care anymore” and “she’s not the only one who gets nice things”. The debt was an emotional mess, racked up based on how we felt, with barely half an eye to consequence. My wife was oblivious and I was impotent. A flawed relationship had a catastrophic


financial cost.

Next time, we start in the bottom of a seemingly unscalable hole. I’ll talk through the tools we used to get positive traction. Namely, our monthly budget and our debt snowball tracker.

About The Author

trshmnstr

trshmnstr

I stink, therefore I am.

311 Comments

  1. UnCivilServant

    Tangentially related.

    Why is it if I want to electronically transfer money from one bank to another, I get charged a fee, but if I write myself a check and deposit it in the target bank, I don’t incur a fee, despite the fact the check is more work to process?

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      you get charged a fee? I only get charged if I want to expedite the transfer

      • Sean

        I don’t get charged any fees for transfers.

      • Fatty Bolger

        Yeah, same here.

    • grrizzly

      Check clearing is facilitated (subsidized) by the Federal Reserve. Electronic transfers are not.

    • Hyperion

      Way to avoid, go to one banks’s ATM, get the cash, go to other bank’s ATM, deposit cash. I mean unless it’s more than $500. Otherwise, I only get a fee if I expedite it, which I don’t do.

      • UnCivilServant

        The nearest ATM for the bank where the money is lives in the Rochester Area. Plus it’s more than $500…

      • grrizzly

        You can always open a bank account that doesn’t charge for electronic transfers (for both pushing and pulling funds). For example, this one.

      • UnCivilServant

        I almost never need to move money, and I don’t need yet another bank to deal with.

      • Hyperion

        The only reason I ever move money to another bank, is that my wife has her own account for her domestic engineering duties, and she doesn’t like worrying about how much she takes out of my checking. So I put move money into there, the ATMs are both about a mile from here and maybe 500 ft from each other. If I need to buy something, I just use my debit card. I mean except for when I’m transferring into all my offshore accounts (I wish).

      • UnCivilServant

        Money not spent has accumulated in one bank. The other bank is the one my mortgage is through. I could knock off a third of the remaining principal if I sank that money into the loan.

      • Hyperion

        “Money not spent has accumulated in one bank.”

        Some problems can be classified under good.

    • Cy

      There are different ways to transfer the money. Wires incur a fess. Electronic Bank transfers (EBT) usually don’t. Wires are faster and don’ usually have caps.

    • Certified Public Asshat

      Switch banks? I have never been charged a fee doing this with multiple banks.

  2. PieInTheSky

    It seems to me that you can borrow a lot of money in the US

    Also, to go with a popular joke these days, your wife should start an onlyfans

    • UnCivilServant

      If your name is Disney, you can borrow $5 Billion with an additional $7 Billion line of credit.

    • The Other Kevin

      It is obscenely easy to get yourself into a lot of debt in the US. What happens at the macro level is also happening at the micro level – don’t expect a government that’s trillions in debt (and climbing) to encourage its citizens to be thrifty.

      • Urthona

        It’s also not that hard to get out of it, at least. Having done it myself. Which probably encourages getting into the situation in the first place.

      • Hyperion

        “It is obscenely easy to get yourself into a lot of debt in the US.”

        Credit cards.

        We have one, thousand dollar limit, have turned down all offers to increase the limit, because we don’t need it. Wife uses it shopping, and pays it off in the same month. My mailbox is full of offers every week. Do not want.

      • Certified Public Asshat

        My mailbox is full of offers every week. Do not want.

        Do This

      • DrOtto

        I once mailed a brick to Capital One on their postage paid reply envelope after singling them out specifically for charging me a fee for cashing a check that was drafted on their bank. That also works.

      • UnCivilServant

        Was it a negotiable brick?

      • Hyperion

        Also, I have co-workers who have million dollar mortgages. They never go anywhere, drive clunker cars that are broke all of the time, and are constantly figuring out ways to do whatever they need to do, like eat, each month.

        FUCK.THAT.SHIT.

      • kinnath

        When I was lining up financing to build my house, the lenders offered two to three times what I wanted. I had to keep telling them no. I actually had lenders turn me down for the amount I wanted after I said no to twice as much.

      • UnCivilServant

        Shortly after closing, as in before my first loan payment was due, I got a notice that the bank had sold the loan to either freddy or fanny, followed promptly by an offer to refinance the loan – all before I’d made my first payment. I declined to refinance. I wasn’t going to take a hit to my credit rating to get the same interest rate just so the bank could resell the loan.

      • robc

        In the days before ubiquitous online stuff (early 2000s?), I called BoA to make an additional principal payment. I wanted to make sure it was done right…my mortgage was being auto-drafted from my bank so I didn’t have any forms to put an extra payment on. They were helpful, directed me to the right place, told me to have the check arrive after the 10th of the month so that it didnt confused with a regular payment. That despite the fact that it had PRINCIPLE ONLY in the memo field, they would still screw it up. Very helpful customer service. Surprisingly so. At the end of the call, she asked me if I wanted to take advantage of the no-closing cost refinancing they were offering and pull out principal.

        Ummmm…this call was because I was going the opposite way, so ummmm, no?

        Even she laughed and said she had to ask.

    • Urthona

      Not only is it easy but the government encourages it.

      In California, a big part of the housing bubble was that you can easily get out from under bad home loans. It encourages people to get in over their heads.

      One thing that happened during Covid that has the government worried is how much people started saving.

      • The Other Kevin

        Making interest rates lower and lower is also a big part of it. You might incur more in fees than you’d make in interest on a savings account, meanwhile it’s never been cheaper to borrow money for a house or a car.

      • slumbrew

        … the government worried is how much people started saving.

        They’re pumped that we’ve becoming a de facto cashless society – once they make that official they can go with negative interest rates and _make_ you spend that money.

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      yes, you can borrow tons of money. I had a $40k credit limit across 3 cards on $65k income. The car financiers didn’t bat an eye at me taking out $50k in car loans despite being $80k+ in debt and making $80k. The student loans are automatic and non-dischargeable.

      They give you enough rope to hang yourself and then some.

      • leon

        What’s crazy to me is that i have a fairly good credit score, but can’t get approved for a credit card with a limit >$4K on it.

      • UnCivilServant

        I started with a $500 credit limit on my card and increased it over time.

      • grrizzly

        Really? I recall I had a discover with a $10k credit limit in grad school. I don’t think it was even the highest limit. Perhaps, your credit history is considered short. Don’t cancel your old credit card(s), that way the average age of your credit accounts won’t drop.

    • Drake

      Yes – my wife and I never carry a balance on the credit cards, but our Amex limit is $50k, and the bank is constantly asking if I would like a line of credit.

      • Incentives Matter

        No limit on my AMEX gold. My other cards have finally stopped bugging me to ‘up’ my limit on them (and for awhile they were just doing it without even asking me).

        I use the AMEX all the time, and always pay it off every month (required for the original cards). They’ve found my weakness — they’re giving me Amazon points now. Much better than their goofy rewards.

      • grrizzly

        According to TransUnion, my aggregate credit card limit is above $320k. I think it doesn’t include charge cards (Amex).

  3. The Other Kevin

    That bullet list looks eerily familiar. In my own life, and in many, many people around me. Looking forward to the next installment.

  4. Sean

    You’re going to feel awfully silly when President Biden cancels student debt.

    • Drake

      I’m going to get awfully violent when he seizes my 401k.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        this. I’m already having conversations with the wife about diversifying outside of the investment accounts with the expectation that the left will get some subset of their confiscatory wishlist within the next 20 years.

      • Nephilium

        It won’t be seized comrade, you’ll just need to invest in approved holdings in order for it to maintain those rich tax privileges. It’s the first step to checking your privilege.

      • Deplorableme

        They won’t seize it – most likely is they will reduce your SS because you were responsible and saved for retirement. Sucker.

      • DEG

        This.

        They won’t seize. Too fast. Too soon. They’ll force you into Treasuries.

      • DrOtto

        Confiscated 401k’s is when I start shooting.

    • UnCivilServant

      Only for people with good-smelling hair.

  5. Mojeaux

    I will restate my hypothesis about “I earned it” and “I deserve it”, without regard to the future.

    It’s said sacrifice is foregoing what you want now for something better in the future. Well, that’s the problem. The future. The future for most people is without hope. If you have no hope for the future, then spending it on what you want NOW gets you something. The utilities are always going to be there, and whatever’s left (if anything) is a pittance.

    Corollary: Much of this comes from being underemployed or having been unemployed, so you’re starting in a hole.

    No hope = no future = no reason to save.

    • UnCivilServant

      After years of miserly living I began to ask “when do I get to have fun?”

      • mrfamous

        Imagine how pissed you’d be if you decided at the end of 2019 that 2020 was the year you were finally gonna start having fun! Travel! Going to bars and restaurants! Meeting all sorts of new people around the world!

      • UnCivilServant

        I am pissed. I had saved up for a year so I could take my dad on a road trip for a milestone birthday. Then people stupidly panicked.

      • Nephilium

        I don’t need to imagine it. I had banked vacation time, cash, and plans for a trip that was supposed to take place at the beginning of July.

      • Incentives Matter

        ^^THIS. We moved from B.C. back to Alberta, in part, to afford to travel more.  Then they tell me the world’s closed until further notice (and some of them are hinting at “forever, if we can swing it”).

      • Annoyed Nomad

        Tell me about it. We planned travel to Europe and South America this year, our first year of retirement. We had planned ahead and had gotten great deals on the trips. All cancelled. We do plan to do some travel in the US this fall, but we’re bummed about the cancelled trips.

      • Suthenboy

        Why does ‘fun’ have to cost money?

      • UnCivilServant

        Turns out the things I enjoy aren’t free, tree farmer.

      • Suthenboy

        I spend ten bucks on gasoline and peanut butter sandwiches then spend all day not seeing or hearing another human being. I hear the creek and the wind in the trees. The trees and I get along well. It keeps me sane.

        If you haven’t guessed, I am not really a party kind of guy.

      • UnCivilServant

        Most of the time I don’t see or hear other humans.

        I take a vacation to escape from being alone all the time.

      • PieInTheSky

        because good booze is pricey. Travel as well

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        we’ve tried to split the difference. now that we’re out* of debt, we’ve loosened up the purse strings, but we also try to find free/cheap ways to entertain ourselves on regular days.

        *caveat will be discussed in a future installment

    • Urthona

      Why would people have no hope though? We are living in the greatest time in human history as far as personal wealth, luxury, and entertainment goes.

      I think it’s like losing weight in that it’s essentially a prisoner’s dilemma with your future self. Your present self almost always wins.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        people are entirely unequipped to act in moderation these days. we’re a society of lottery winners, blowing our winnings on cars and booze and trips to Vegas.

      • Sean

        Money spent on booze is not blowing it.

      • UnCivilServant

        If you’re blowing the blow, you’re doing it wrong.

      • Lackadaisical

        …and the rest we wasted?

      • Urthona

        The thing is as a middle class American or even lower class American above the poverty line your life is so damned easy and your relative wealth is so high already. It’s like they don’t find meaning so they’re just craving more stimulation.

        My grandfather on my dad’s side had to go fight in a World War. Being shot at by people he didn’t know while millions of people were being killed. My other grandfather at least didn’t have to serve. He was as the son of an Armenian Holocaust survivor, and he had polio as a child and was permanently crippled. Yay. Polio is that disease we used to have just a few generations ago that’s way worst than Covid.

        It’s sad to me that people don’t recognize how awesome everything is for themselves.

        2020 is not really even that bad a year. Yeah the government’s response is absurd. But people have no perspective.

      • Suthenboy

        ^This X 1000^

      • Mojeaux

        The thing is as a middle class American or even lower class American above the poverty line your life is so damned easy and your relative wealth is so high already. It’s like they don’t find meaning so they’re just craving more stimulation.

        Stimulation? When your income is completely spoken for it doesn’t matter what era of economic history you’re living in, you’re just surviving. Who wants to spend their life surviving?

      • UnCivilServant

        Well, it beats not surviving.

      • Mojeaux

        So right.

      • Mojeaux

        Why would people have no hope though?

        I guess I don’t understand the question. Everything seems so impossible when every penny is going to rent and utilities. You have nothing left over.

      • Urthona

        Never in human history have people spent less of their money on those things. Also on things like food.

        We have more excess money per capita for entertainment or “stuff” than ever at any time.

      • Mojeaux

        Never in human history have people spent less of their money on those things. Also on things like food.

        Who cares?

      • Mojeaux

        I’m sorry. I don’t mean to sound snarky because I don’t feel that way.

      • PieInTheSky

        what percentage of the US is in that situation and what is the main reason?

      • Fatty Bolger

        Most? Mainly because they rent as much as they can afford to rent.

        This is one reason buying a house is usually a good idea. Because people also tend to buy as much house as they can afford, but at least they’re building up their assets at the same time. Of course, some bad luck can wipe that out, but even so you’re usually not worse off than you would have been anyway.

      • PieInTheSky

        I dunno given how much money is spent by americans for entertainment, travel, dining, etc I find it hard to believe most spend all their money on rent and utilities.

      • Fatty Bolger

        Well of course, you don’t expect people to live like monks, do you ? But the important thing is that the rent and utilities takes the last part of their money, and that’s why they can’t seem to get ahead.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        many people around here are caught up in expenditures they don’t understand. they way overpay for things because of inertia.

        I’ll not steal my next article’s thunder on this one, but your average American has no clue how much they’re spending on, well, anything. Nor do they have any clue what they’re actually paying for things that are on a monthly plan.

        As much as people joke about the “I’m not out of money, there are still checks in the checkbook” mentality, it’s a real thing and it’s pervasive.

      • Sean

        I bought a house for cheaper payments than what my rent was.

        *stable genius*

      • UnCivilServant

        In theory, my required mortgage payments are 2/3rds of what my rent was.

        I just pay 5/4s of my old rent to make the mortgage go away faster.

      • kbolino

        They’re not really building up the asset if they’re constantly taking out HELOCs and the like. Owned housing can be a trap just as much as rent (perhaps moreso).

      • Fatty Bolger

        No, but you can always get back to break even broke, which is where they would have been anyway if they had been renting. Remember, I’m talking about most people here. I’m not saying that renting is always a bad idea, but for your typical person who runs on inertia, buying is generally better than renting.

      • Certified Public Asshat

        This is one reason buying a house is usually a good idea. </em.

        You just triggered Mo.

      • Mojeaux

        You just triggered Mo.

        *curls up in fetal position and whimpers*

      • TARDIS

        There there, Mojo.

        *scritches Mojo under the chin*

      • mrfamous

        Because you usually start off at age 23 with at least six figures in debt. And heaven forbid you screw up and have a kid or two.

        It’s why “Cash for Clunkers” might very well have been the very worst federal program of the last 30 years. Force people with crushing amounts of personal debt to take out loans for a rapidly depreciating asset by decimating the used car market. Galaxy brain stuff.

      • Suthenboy

        He is the smartest man who ever lived. His IQ is like, off the charts man!

      • mindyourbusiness

        And we know in which direction…

      • Fatty Bolger

        Yeah, that was pure wealth destruction. Fucking ridiculous.

      • Nephilium

        Envy. Especially with the rise of social media, you see people doing things that you aren’t, but you wish you could. People share their big happy things much more then their shame and mistakes.

    • Don Escaped Spring Training

      Successful people seldom understand what a huge part of the populace live in exactly this malaise.

      Even disposable income is often spent with a why-not indifference, the calculation of long-term options never even entering the conversation.

      I think of the jobs I had as a kid where I had insurance, jobs that pay the same absolute scale after 35 years of inflation. I could fix almost anything on my truck myself in those days. Many of the jobs I had are now bar-coded, automated processes. Similarly, the working-class jobs my parents scrimped by on pay almost nothing now.

      I’ve always had a plan, made conservative choices, and commanded a salary, but I wouldn’t know what to tell a teenager now.

      Another emotional hurdle now is the stunning wall of adult costs. A kid gets a job, but now he’s on the hook for housing, insuring this and that, and suddenly his lifestyle is considerably worse than when he was living on mom’s couch. It’s a hard sell to work hard to have less.

      All I can say is I hate being bossed around; I’d live under a bridge in a cardboard box if that’s what it took to be my own man.

      • PieInTheSky

        thing is you need to have some sort of motivation. The world is what it is. You may want change for the better, but in the meantime you should find a way to cope. Education system is leading the youth socialist but that don’t work.

      • invisible finger

        “It’s a hard sell to work hard to have less.”

        My dad’s sell to me was easy when I was 10: “You start paying rent 1 month after your 18th birthday. If you don’t like it, go live on your own.”

        You have to impart this into your children before the Marxist shit starts getting pounded into them in junior high.

      • Deplorableme

        My mom charged me rent when I was 16 – of course, her rule was 20% gross of whatever I made. At 16, I was a part time janitor pulling in 3 or 400 a month, so it wasn’t that much. But still, really encourage me to move out when I could. Funny thing, I was the only of 6 kids she did that to, but also the most successful too.

    • DEG

      I looked for little things I could here and there for fun as I was getting myself set after my undergrad and during my grad work.

  6. Sensei

    Thanks for putting this out. I hope it helps some people. I count myself so lucky that my parents successfully conveyed what a disaster debt can be long before Dave Ramsey. I take issue with some of his methods, but you could do a whole lot worse.

    One of my biggest issues with him is financing an automobile. I get his concern with being hugely upside down on an auto loan, but reliable transportation for working poor is critical. Being unable to get to your job for more than a day or so can put you into a huge hole or make you lose your job. So financing something used, but in good shape with some kind of warranty seems to me to be a bit of an investment in your ability to work.

    • Drake

      Sure. But there’s a big difference between financing a new Corolla for 3 years versus a new Range Rover for 6 or more. I’ve seen too many people who don’t get the difference.

      • Drake

        When I buy a car, I assume I’ll own it for a decade and put at least 200,000 miles on it. Not trade it in as soon as a new model catches my eye.

      • Viking1865

        This. A few years back my now wife was in school and working fulltime, driving a 20 year old car. It finally died on her. She started shopping around, and her stepdad was calling local dealerships, and had one on the line where all she had to do was sign on the dotted line and it would be ~450 a month for the next 72 months BUT IT WOULD BE BRAND NEW!!!!! Now, her stepdad puts a ton of miles on his cars, but hes also a pro mechanic, so he does all his own work. But still, he buys more car than he should. Which, hey, his business. But it was terrible advice for my then girlfriend to sign onto a 5 year car note.

        I put my foot down, we found an old but low mileage car (single owner, lived in DC, drove it once a week for errands but otherwise used Metro and walking) She paid it off in less than 18 months.

      • Mojeaux

        My family in general has always had good luck with buying from Enterprise.

    • Certified Public Asshat

      His thing is getting people out of debt though, and most people are car poor.

  7. Lackadaisical

    “My wife was making about $15k a year, and I was making 10x that”

    I’m perplexed by her employment choices throughout this story. Why did she switch from the first job you mentioned?

    In Dave’s plan, do you save for your kids college first or invest in orphans instead?

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      her first job was as an administrator at an alzheimer’s clinic. it was a paying job, but something that had no opportunity for promotion or growth.

      job 2 was more in line with what she was hoping to do, which was physical therapy. she was working at a pediatric physical therapy office as an admin, with the goal of going to PT or PT assistant school.

      she quickly realized that she didn’t want to do that long term, so shifted again, to group fitness training, which was actually a great fit, but with her also being a stay at he mom, she can only work 5-10 hours per week, which limits the income. At this point, she’s unemployed (covid restrictions) and unemployable (6 months pregnant), so she’s not sure what the future holds, but she loves being a fitness trainer.

      • PieInTheSky

        she loves being a fitness trainer. – proper evidence based fitness I hope

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        well, she’s kinda thicc right now, but it’s pregnant thicc, which is the hottest kind of thicc.

      • PieInTheSky

        that is not what matters. What matters is not selling her customers bullshit or getting them injured.

      • Viking1865

        Dude the most successful fitness trainers sell bullshit. It’s all about coming up with novel routines that make clients feel like they worked out really really hard.

        People who buy personal training over an extended time are looking for the novelty and the experience. You don’t hire a trainer to run you through StrongLifts 5×5 over and over again.

      • PieInTheSky

        You don’t hire a trainer to run you through StrongLifts 5×5 over and over again. – well no. that would be silly. that is mostly a novice program, and there are probably better ones out there. After you are done if you want to advance you need actual personalised programing.

      • UnCivilServant

        I thought you hired them to yell at you to actually show up an exercise.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        routines that make clients feel like they worked out really really hard.

        and that keeps them engaged. You don’t get the results from the workouts you skip.

        people are fickle and easily bored. if they aren’t entertained and engaged, they won’t keep coming.

      • Nephilium

        trshmnstr:

        Yep. I’ve got a stationary bike at home, and have a trainer I can set up one of my bikes on as well. I still ride harder in the spin classes then I do spending time on the trainer/stationary. The stats and competition are a part of it, as well as showing that middle aged fat men can still ride hard. 🙂

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        that’s one of the reasons she’s not a fan of crossfit. she believes they teach “get it at all costs” rather than proper form, and that results in injuries.

        she’s a stickler for form.

      • PieInTheSky

        that is why I am not a fan of crossfit

  8. Suthenboy

    Years of living on bologna sandwiches and laying awake at night sweating how I was going to pay rent/electricity/food/taxes taught me:

    Never borrow money unless you have collateral.

    Never lend money without collateral.

    Dont spend money on shiny crap/hookers/blow.

    Save money. Keep a disaster readiness account.

    Save money.

    Save money.

    Buy your car/house outright. Dont borrow money.

    Dont think you are going to live forever or that you will be young forever. Set your goals for decades ahead, keep your head down and work towards them slowly.

    Keep your word. It matters what other people think of you.

    Write those down. Carve it in stone. Stitch it on your pillow cases. Have it printed on your door mat.

    • PieInTheSky

      Dont spend money on shiny crap/hookers/blow. – I don’t know man after a long period of not getting laid at all a hooker can be a sound investment for mental health

      • Drake

        Renting a depreciating asset can be far cheaper than a lease or purchase…

      • PieInTheSky

        also this

  9. Don Escaped Spring Training

    I’m always impressed by folks who are open about their mistakes. We all make them, but few admit them.

    The marital air-clearing tool is the budget. In a former life, I never could sell it; when I agreed to live by whatever she cooked up, she declined to come up with her own model. The budget is paper, but at least then the couple is attacking a model, a thing . . . not each other.

    In our case, we were extremely comfortable, I refused to take on non-mortgage debt, and so we lived well and got into only a few, affordable problems. In the divorce, I walked away with my half of a very firm footing. Since then, I hear tell of some new priorities at Casa FirstWife . . . ha ha who cares, all the best, good luck, don’t want Junior’s mom to be unhappy.

    The budget will always be a ball-buster, though. I can never have enough in savings; I’m maxing out every shelter; some others will want to put it off a couple of rears for the remodel or the new kitchen. I’ll stop there guessing that budget chat is a coming installment.

    • leon

      I’m always impressed by folks who are open about their mistakes. We all make them, but few admit them.

      Except current wives, they never make mistakes.

      • Gender Traitor

        You are a wise man with keen survival instincts.

    • Lackadaisical

      I’ll second what Don is saying about admitting mistakes. You’re braver than me trash. . . I never make mistakes.

  10. Rebel Scum

    So the live-fire exercise against the commie insurrectionists begins when?

    Breitbart Texas reviewed an FBI “activity alert” regarding the use of modified fireworks during the demonstrations in Atlanta, which began on July 25. The alert states that approximately 100 to 200 people dressed in dark clothing, backpacks, goggles, and helmets approached the ICE office in Atlanta. The subjects reportedly carried shields, bats, and large sticks.

    Following the attack that left 20 broken windows, “bomb technicians discovered commercial grade fireworks with nails embedded in the mortar shell,” the document reads.

    Images of the modified fireworks show multiple large nails embedded in the devices.

    • The Other Kevin

      Clearly the intention is to kill. I have no doubt that if they had their way in Portland, every person in that courthouse would be dead. I can’t tell if it’s ineptness or just luck that they haven’t succeeded yet.

    • EvilSheldon

      Others here have said it, and I’m reluctantly coming to believe it – these riots are being orchestrated with the tacit support of DHS and DOJ management.

      • Gustave Lytton

        But of course! The police are setting the fires too.

    • B.P.

      Welcome to The Days of Rage, II.

      • EvilSheldon

        It pisses me right off. If we have to get the Days of Rage and Altamont, why can’t we have the free love, good music, and reasonably priced cocaine?

      • B.P.

        Because Puritans are now in charge of the mayhem.

    • WTF

      The people pulling the strings on these insurrections are trying to provoke a lethal response from the authorities so they wave the bloody shirt for political gain.

      • This Machine

        Ding ding ding. These clowns want another Kent State.

      • kinnath

        Stupid shit.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        one of the recommended tweets was rand throwing some serious shade at Cuomo. Delicious!

        I’m surprised the commie got the drop on this guy. either the tweet is wrong, or he is really lucky that the truck driver didn’t shoot him when he retrieved his weapon.

      • Gustave Lytton

        I think truck guy had pulled it in general response to the mob, not a specific threat and really had no desire to fire it. Antifa guy was able to blend in with rest of crowd until he had his gun there.

      • Aloysious

        That is extremely foolish. If either of those two manage to survive much longer, I’ll be very surprised.

  11. Drake

    So the 3 largest internet platforms actively censored the President of the United States today (as well as a group of Medical Doctors).

    Ball is your court Donnie – the world is watching and the election is just over 3 months away. An angry tweet will make you a laughingstock – good luck.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Here’s the vid that was censored for anyone that’s interested:

      https://www.bitchute.com/video/PqqvcxdCGJo9/

      Thank God for alternative platforms. As for hoping for much more than a strongly worded tweet: Don’t hold your breath.

      • Rebel Scum

        Spiderweb of Fear

        Band name?

      • Drake

        Uppity doctors and uppity President dare to argue with facts – so they are cancelled. No debate or free speech.

    • Count Potato

      I just looked at Trump’s feed, and a couple of posts were deleted.

      • Rebel Scum

        Listening now. I like her. Mammy is spitting fire.

      • Drake

        She does not seem like one to take an ounce of shit. I would love to see a proggie reporter interview her.

      • leon

        I try to avoid making fun of peoples beliefs because 1) Glass Houses etc. 2) pretty much everyone has some belief that is “kooky” 3) anyone who doesn’t is not smart enough to think anything other than what they were spoon fed in High School.

      • Suthenboy

        I am tempted to vote this comment the comment of the day, but the day is still young.

  12. Suthenboy

    Goddammit.

    I started cutting grass this morning and the mower crapped out on me. I tried to start the weedeater and it would not start.

    I tried to do a load of laundry and the washer just bleep bleep bleeps. It won’t start.

    I sat down here and I get ‘You are not connected to the internet’. Clear out everything and restart.

    The goddamned toilet plugged up on me.

    I am not touching another piece of mechanical thing today. I made a drink and not going or doing anything else today.

    I am sweaty and yucky but I am scared to take a shower. Ugh. In other words it seems to be ‘one of those days’.

    • UnCivilServant

      *condensation causes glass to slip from Suthen’s hands*

      /just the kind of way your day seems to be going.

      • Suthenboy

        *In panic grabs glass with two hands*

    • leon

      Did you check the thermostat?

    • Drake

      “weedeater”: is that what you call your goat?

      • Suthenboy

        You can’t tell the difference between goats and donkeys?

      • UnCivilServant

        Donkeys are the ones with quills, right?

    • Hyperion

      Suthen, saving the planet, one breakdown at a time.

    • Count Potato

      I’m not a mechanical engineer, but it’s obviously ghosts.

      • Aloysious

        I was going to vote EMP or wild-haired aliens.

    • B.P.

      It sounds like the Monsters are Due on Maple Street.

  13. creech

    Observation: Its a damn good thing law school costs so much or we’d be even more overrun with lawyers. Just about every proggie that I know has their kids in law school as it is. Imagine Karen with a law degree!

    • Suthenboy

      *bites tongue*

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Something something Shakespeare quote (except for you lawyers here, you’re good people).

    • EvilSheldon

      Midwits with law degrees tend to go into the state and federal bureaucracy. Not much of an improvement over actually practicing law.

    • Hyperion

      Is there anyone currently in law school who is NOT a Karen?

    • Hyperion

      Ex-employer, we hired this college guy for tech support on the shop floor. Bright kid, but he had a severe case of social anxiety and some other obvious emotional issues. He was now in law school.

      He told us that when he was in college for his IT degree, that the jocks would pick on him more than anyone, he was an obvious target. They called him The Beav, I guess because he reminded them of the kid from Leave it to Beaver. He said they’d shove him in a locker and leave him in there until someone found him and let him out, as well as all sorts of other mischief.

      And now he was in law school. Years later, I guess he became a county prosecutor, no kidding, and he was out to get anyone he could for any reason.

    • Ted S.

      Single-payer legal care, with lawyers getting minimum wage, because no lawyer does anything worth more than that.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Man did South Park nail all of this nonsense in various episodes ten or so years ago. Those guys must have a freaking time machine.

    • Suthenboy

      I….uh….I think….uh….holy shit. Never mind.

      Relating to an earlier comment of mine: “Deer iz only one vay to deal vith them” *makes pistol finger*

      • WTF

        I really think we are no-shit heading toward another shooting civil war.

      • PieInTheSky

        buy a hawaiian shirt to be prepared.

      • Suthenboy

        I don’t think you are wrong but my guess, it will be highly localized.

      • WTF

        And it’s really not going to go the way the left would like it to.

    • Hyperion

      “Are masks giving men a licence to leer? ”

      So, they have masks now that cover up the eyes?

      • robc

        Yes, they are called sunglasses.

    • Gustave Lytton

      I bet they’re making sexually suggestive tongue gestures under those masks too.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        You just gave me an idea for an extremely offensive mask.

  14. Gender Traitor

    Just one thought regarding marital finances: If both spouses work, I’m a strong believer in Yours, Mine, & Ours when it comes to deposit accounts or household money in general. Come to a reasonably equitable agreement about how to split shared household expenses, kick in your agreed-upon share, and the rest of each spouse’s income is theirs to save or splurge as they see fit. (***COUGH COUGH***guitar player husband***COUGH COUGH***)

    • kinnath

      My check goes into my checking account. My wife’s check goes into her checking account. We transfer an agreed amount in to the joint checking account.

      Has worked fine for 35 years or so.

      • Gender Traitor

        ^^^Yup!!!

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      Come to a reasonably equitable agreement about how to split shared household expenses, kick in your agreed-upon share, and the rest of each spouse’s income is theirs to save or splurge as they see fit.

      I don’t know whether my treatment of this topic will make it into the next installment of the series or not, but I look forward to the discussion that comes from it. It took us 3 or 4 attempts to find the right balance.

    • hoof_in_mouth

      I admit I barely know how to make it work with large income differential. I made a good income, my (now ex) ran a failing business that consumed all her time and generated a little cash and large net losses. At the time it seemed correct/traditional to take all the household and business infrastructure on myself but in retrospect it devalued her time and efforts by letting it be not-serious/a hobby and overwhelmed me by having to take responsibility for everything.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        income differential is an issue. papering over the hard conversations is also an issue. my wife’s grandmother and step-grandfather are dealing with this situation. grandmother is doing fine financially, but step-grandfather’s savings are running low. they had been going fine for 30 years, but their difference in financial priorities (and their initial financial footing) finally caught up to them, and he basically gets an allowance from her until he dies. Neither are particularly happy with the arrangement.

        Similarly, given free reign, my wife would burn through 100% of her discretionary money. I am a saver who would essentially be sacrificing any enjoyment (present or future) of my paycheck to subsidize her fun.

        IMO, the mine, yours, ours method usually ends up in one of three places.
        1) near zero planning/saving for the future,
        2) de facto combined accounts with some “fun money” that each person can spend no questions asked, or
        3) marriage wrecking resentment when priorities don’t align

      • hoof_in_mouth

        Ugh, that #3. You really do get it. I applaud your skills in navigating those waters.

      • robc

        #2 is basically what Ramsey recommends. Combined accounts and a budget item of $X for His and Hers funds.

  15. grrizzly

    Belarusian president Lukashenko says he had coronavirus asymptomatically.

    • leon

      So i just looked it up. I always kinda thought of Belarus meaning “Beautiful Russia”, (bella being latin with beautiful), but i take it it means “White Rus”.

      • WTF

        So, you’re saying they are white nationalists.

      • leon

        No they need to rebrand as “Northern West Russia”

      • grrizzly

        Yes.
        Belarus = White Russia
        Ukraine = Malorossiya = Small Russia
        Russia = Great Russia

      • Gender Traitor

        Back in college, I had A Bad Experience with White Russians (Pro tip: don’t mix with pot, especially if you have next to no experience with pot,) but not as Bad as the Experience I’d had with inadvertently-mixed-double-strength Black Russians.

        I’ll just take my Kahlua in milk and skip the vodka, thankyouverymuch. #lightweight

      • EvilSheldon

        You know what’s really good? White Russians made with Van Gogh’s Double Espresso flavored vodka.

        Damn, now I’m both sober and thirsty.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Can recommend, except with Crater Lake Espresso Vodka. And Bailey’s.

      • pistoffnick

        “it it means “White Rus”.”

        *Thirsts for cocktail consisting of vodka, Kahlua and cream*

      • UnCivilServant

        I only have 2% milk… I don’t think it will work.

      • UnCivilServant

        I did discover an unopened bottle of Kahlua last night. It was on the shelf next to my cutting board.

  16. Stinky Wizzleteats

    He looks like the kind of guy that’ll shrug off numerous diseases and assassination attempts only to die of a massive coronary at age 60.

  17. Stinky Wizzleteats

    If you’d prefer Trump to Biden Razorfist says to keep your chin up:

    https://youtu.be/vvr6Lyj1xfs

    Is he right? Is he wrong? The hell if I know.

    • UnCivilServant

      Does he own a shirt yet? Has he discovered color video?

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        I think your brain is almagamating right wing YouTubers.

      • UnCivilServant

        It’s not my fault, I don’t tend to watch political youtube.

    • leon

      I’m not particularly convinced about the “Polled people don’t tell the truth”.

      • UnCivilServant

        I am not convinced that people would tell pollsters the truth.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        I wouldn’t answer one truthfully right now. I wouldn’t lie I don’t think, I just think I’d decline to participate and I suspect many others wheel the same which brings about its own kind of selection bias that’s hard to account for.

      • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

        it’s a known and studied phenomenon, but I’m not sure if it’s as much of a factor as the right makes it out to be.

        The bigger issue, IMO, is the secret weighting that most national polls have to adjust for “nonrepresentative” samples.

      • The Other Kevin

        I think it’s true now more than ever. People are getting fired for voting for Trump, and polls (I know, I just argued myself in a circle) saying everyone except the extreme left is afraid of expressing their opinion.

      • kbolino

        Prediction methodologies that involve state-level polls and estimates of electoral votes, rather than a national popular appeal poll, generally converge toward strong predictive power as the election gets closer. This shouldn’t be surprising, but somehow it is. We don’t have a national popular vote contest, so a national popular appeal poll is mostly meaningless. Put another way, it is not so much that people lie to pollsters (an observed if overstated effect), it is that the pollsters are engaged in simple rather than accurate methodologies.

    • leon

      I think he has a good point about the Democrats helping Trump by making all of his faults political issues. They attack him, and people close ranks even more.

      • The Other Kevin

        I have said this all along. All they had to do was be the adult in the room, but they couldn’t even manage that. Instead they listed to every wacko on Twitter.

  18. Cy

    Are we going to print out of this crisis and push inflation or are we going to let the markets react?

    If so, what’s your strategy to financially ride the coming waves?

    I personally think we’re going to see a massive crash December to February after the elections and just in time for everyon’es 401ks, rent payments and unemployment to run out. Next domino will be housing loan delinquencies.

    • EvilSheldon

      I really need to get my condo on the market. If I can’t get it sold by December, I’ll probably be stuck in Virginia for another year…

  19. UnCivilServant

    … It’s pretty bad when my reaction to this meeting is “I don’t want to talk about the RFP, I just want to go back into my kitchen and clean.”

  20. hoof_in_mouth

    Thanks for sharing. Financial problems are marital death, I’ve got the divorce to prove it and still wish I had made better decisions so that it hadn’t come down to that. Debt is stressful when you’re underwater already, maxed out and just waiting for the next shoe, whether it’s the truck failing or the well pump failing and you can’t sell and … dark times. Glad you did better. Dave’s solutions work well for the average person over-consuming, they don’t really provide good guidance for people experiencing a prolonged crisis once your emergency fund is depleted. His solution of selling to reduce housing cost even when underwater actually monetizes a theoretical debt and ignores the very real issues of schools, available family/church help and job availability / commuting cost.

    • Mojeaux

      Today, we were recommended Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University.

      very real issues of schools, available family/church help and job availability / commuting cost.

      This. There is very little available for rent inside the school district (an excellent one), and I need to be physically close to my mother.

    • SUPREME OVERLORD trshmnstr

      they don’t really provide good guidance for people experiencing a prolonged crisis once your emergency fund is depleted

      much of where I disagree with him is in the emergency preparedness aspect. His $1000 e-fund doesn’t take into account the risk profile of the person. There was no point in the process where an emergency was going to keep me from being able to get to work. For somebody who is on the other side of the income curve, exceeding that $1000 cushion is a financial death sentence.

      His solution of selling to reduce housing cost even when underwater actually monetizes a theoretical debt and ignores the very real issues of schools, available family/church help and job availability / commuting cost.

      Regarding this one, I tend to side with Dave. Thinking in terms of the entirety of the loan is a luxury that is earned by having money left over at the end of the month. When people literally cannot pay all of their bills, they’re forced into a month-by-month mentality. Powering through the equity curve on an underwater appreciating asset doesn’t mean much when you are at risk of foreclosure because you’re three months behind

  21. Stillhunter

    I noticed the discussion end of last post about ammo. I know it’s not quite what folks were thinking in regards to making their own, but I heard of a new business that might be of interest to some. And it’s even sort of on topic.

    https://ammosquared.com/

  22. Stinky Wizzleteats

    I don’t normally watch hearings but the congressional hearing with Barr being streamed right now is an absolutely politicized shitshow. This nation is fucking done.

    • Drake

      Jerry Nadler is a disgusting piece of shit.

    • Suthenboy

      Those people aren’t the nation.

    • Chipwooder

      How many times have Dems bleated “peaceful protestors”?

    • kbolino

      Congress doesn’t have hearings, it has show trials with lots of grandstanding. There is no reason to haul anyone before Congress any more, as the “witness” is purely a prop.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        This is SOP then? We really are fucked if that’s the case.

      • kbolino

        Granted, I don’t watch C-SPAN religiously or anything, but every hearing I’ve seen has been an utterly pointless waste of time. Nobody on the panel is interested in anything the people called before the panel have to say, except perhaps to play gotcha games; they don’t so much ask questions as spend 15 minutes talking at the witness followed by a loaded or incoherent sentence with rising intonation; they will insult, disparage, misrepresent, and otherwise belittle the witness; but if the witness dares to disrespect them then out comes the gavel; they so blatantly believe themselves to be better than the common man that “RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH” hardly captures it.

      • kbolino

        In fact, petty power seems to be the entire point of it. They are the legislature, they wield grand power and don’t have to stoop to pettiness. But they want no accountability, they want to coast to re-election, and all that really matters to them is fundraising and appearances, so petty fights aren’t just part of the game, they are the raison d’être of being in Congress.

      • Ozymandias

        THIS, 1000%11!11!1!1!1^^^^^^^^

        Every hearing I’ve ever been at on the Hill is like that. They’re there for the cameras – that’s it. It’s all preening and play-acting, all the time. C-SPAN has only made it worse, IMO.
        They were always assholes, but there was a lot less of the virtue signaling. They may have had to do it for one another, but we were always out of sight in, say, 1798. Once cameras and media made it into a daily public spectacle, it went the way of Reality TV. That’s in fact what it is.

  23. commodious spittoon

    This is why I subscribe to the Christopher Thomas Knight school of financial management: avoid all luxuries and responsibilities. Hide in the woods if possible.

  24. Certified Public Asshat

    Sorry, OT:

    ⚾ Back story on Fauci's errant Opening Day pitch:He had practiced at a DC school, but for some reason was throwing from a distance about 20 feet short of 60 feet, 6 inches“I completely miscalculated the distance from the mound," he sayshttps://t.co/d0R9OF1X1x — David S. Joachim (@davidjoachim) July 28, 2020

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        He obviously got his scalar magnitude and direction variables confused.

    • Incentives Matter

      Guy can’t get a tape measure?

    • Suthenboy

      He is an old guy. As an old guy with bad shoulders I did snicker at his pitch but in sympathy.

      As for the rest of his performance, he should be fired, shamed and sink into obscurity.

    • B.P.

      All the rest of his data is spot-on, though.

  25. Gender Traitor

    The Boss (with whom I can discuss politics fairly candidly) just mentioned hearing some scuttlebutt about Trump possibly ditching Pence in favor of Nikki Haley. Anyone else hear anything along those lines, or is this likely just more speculation/wishful thinking?

    • Drake

      He wants to ensure a loss? She’s horrible.

      Ditching Pence for Tucker Carlson would make sense.

      • Gender Traitor

        I’m still leaning toward Condi Rice. Trying to imagine a Condi Rice / Susan Rice debate.

      • Suthenboy

        I think Tucker is where we need him to be.
        Pence hasn’t fucked anything up.

        We dont need to fix it.

    • Rebel Scum

      is this likely just more speculation/wishful thinking?

      Probably. But it would be funny as hell.

    • Urthona

      There is a 0% chance of that happening.

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      Dump Pence for Kristi Noem. But Haley’s still better than Pence.

      More likely he’ll dump Pence for James Woods.

      • Urthona

        He’s not dumping anyone. And Pence adequately serves his function of giving a Christian veneer to this and keeping the bible thumper vote.

      • Fatty Bolger

        ^

      • Incentives Matter

        I would pay real money (note to pedants: I mean gold and/or silver, guys and gals) to see any of the above outcomes happen. It’s not like I have any other entertainment in my life.

      • Rebel Scum

        Dump Pence for Kristi Noem.

        Hell yeah.

    • Stinky Wizzleteats

      Haley’s a cookie cutter neocon with breasts and is terrible. If Trump goes to that well he really will be done.

      • Urthona

        All that’s required in a right wing candidate nowadays is taking less shit from the media. And she does that. So she’s popular.

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        His most loyal base doesn’t like that one bit though, the neocon part I mean. She’s a war monger through and through.

      • Drake

        I agree. She’s embodies much of what is terrible about Republicans right now.

    • Don Escaped Spring Training

      what does she get from it?

      * she already checked her Trump box at the UN and got out unscathed
      * she’s already a 2024 candidate without mussing her hair

      I’m not a fan, but I’d counsel her that the risk/reward profile for her taking another tour walking point for Team Orange is steep

      • leon

        I’m not a fan of her, but it would be funny if the first Female Pres was a Republican.

      • UnCivilServant

        “Not a real woman!”

        /Dem

  26. DrOtto

    Thanks for the article. I went through a form of this in the 90’s. I hadn’t heard of Dave Ramsey yet at the time, but did what he basically suggests people do now. It was personally fulfilling to watch the debt go down and then watch the savings grow. It has also allowed the wife and I opportunities that we wouldn’t have been able to afford, like starting my own business, had we not committed to getting out of debt and started saving.

  27. UnCivilServant

    I wanna be debt free.

    I don’t know how celebrate that day. (It’s only a few years away barring catastrophe)

    Suggestions?

    • robc

      Burn everything you own and start over!

    • Drake

      Borrow some money for a giant glib party?

    • Gender Traitor

      We have the first page of the mortgage with the “Paid in Full” stamp from the mortgage company framed and sitting on our mantel. (Paid off many years early thanks to Tom T’s diligence.)

      • UnCivilServant

        Maybe I could replace my tiny little “Government” demotivational. It doesn’t really command the wall space.

      • Gender Traitor

        “If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions.”

        That one?

    • Certified Public Asshat

      Move out of NY?

      • UnCivilServant

        But then I’d be back in debt and unemployed.

      • Certified Public Asshat

        Lower cost of living and…you’ll find something?

  28. leon

    RE: How dumb all the people who paid off their student loans will feel when Biden cancels student debt.

    If you think that will feel dumb, think about how silly all the Military will feel for enlisting, getting maimed and dying in godforsaken foreign lands, when Biden cancels student debt

    • Suthenboy

      Bet your last dollar….he will stir shit up in half of a dozen more godforsaken foreign lands.

      Venezuela? Russia? Iran?

      • Stinky Wizzleteats

        North Korea, Libya again, Ukraine? The possibilities are almost endless.

      • Sean

        Let’s take Canada. I mean, it’s right there and it will be hardly any effort. We’re due for a win.

      • Suthenboy

        To easy and it isn’t about the win. The war is an end in itself. We can never win because then the war ends.

      • Suthenboy

        Ugh. Too….

      • Incentives Matter

        Certain of us (*COUGH* Northern B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan *COUGH*) would probably welcome it.

      • mrfamous

        He ain’t gonna do shit. He’s gonna gum pudding and read whatever is put in front of him. Lord knows what his “handlers” are going to do, though.

    • Certified Public Asshat

      I guess I don’t understand…since most people still do not even attend college, why would they go for this?

      • The Other Kevin

        Because the most vocal part of their base (not the biggest, the most vocal) is all about this. Once again they think the crazies on Twitter represent everyone.

        But the truth is out there. Most student debt is for advanced degrees, and at big-name schools. So Joe who works at McDonald’s is going to help pay off someone’s masters degree at Harvard.

      • commodious spittoon

        For the same reasons they’ll reinstate SALT deductions.

      • robc

        Tax cuts for the rich!

      • kbolino

        Most people didn’t complete college, but I believe most people attended college.

    • leon

      Law is kinda a “little people” thing.

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      That’s government official bullshit. They all jet around and attend conferences, burning the taxpayers’ money and not doing their damn jobs.

      They pretend that it’s about education and learning, when it’s really about hobnobbing and drinking on someone else’s dime.

  29. TARDIS

    I really need to dump a couple credit cards, 8 is too time consuming to manage.

    *side-eyes Citi MC*

    • Don Escaped Spring Training

      there’s some logic out there about which to keep; I seem to remember something about longer-aged accounts being more valuable to your rating

      • Tres Cool

        I’ve heard Clark Howard explain it before, but it never sunk in. You’re also supposed to make a major purchase once a year, and pay it off over a couple months or something like that. I suppose it entices them into thinking they’ll have you on the hook for interest, so they’ll increase your available credit.
        I dunno.

      • Fatty Bolger

        Probably not necessary, if you’re credit rating is high enough they’ll increase it if you just ask.

      • Fatty Bolger

        Your, even. Sheesh.

      • Certified Public Asshat

        That advice is to just keep the card active so the bank doesn’t decide to cancel it on you.

      • Fatty Bolger

        That is correct.

      • TARDIS

        I’ve read that somewhere too, but the hassle with with card is no longer worth it. My wife and both have our own accounts that we are co-responsible for.Unfortunately, they are both our oldest cards. Hers from before marriage (1989), mine when she went back to school for nursing (2006). I borrowed $3K to open, on a 0% for 12 months and cut the card up. I paid no interest.

        But I’ve had enough of:
        1. Rewards that don’t activate properly online. Tired the rotating BS, anyway.
        2. Have to get a check because it won’t direct deposit to checking account, or allow it as a credit to the outstanding balance.
        3. Unsolicited refund checks for over payments. Last straw.

    • Sean

      Lowering your available credit will lower your credit score.

      • Gender Traitor

        ^This is my understanding, too. IIRC, though, Capital One, at least in years past, would potentially hurt your score by not reporting your credit limit, so if you had any balance, the bureaus would tend to assume your balance was your max and score accordingly. Maybe pull one or more reports and see if any of your cards are pulling this stunt, then close those?

      • Certified Public Asshat

        As long as utilization stays under 10% or so, there should be no major impact.

      • Don Escaped Spring Training

        I also believe this

    • grrizzly

      Try 29 cards.

      • Gustave Lytton

        Churn or MS? Good gravy, the fraudulent use alone on that number would drive me bonkers.

      • grrizzly

        Yes.

      • TARDIS

        ?

      • grrizzly

        I actually pay thousands of dollars in nominal annual fees each year on average for a rotating set of cards. And I think it’s perfectly justified. Even in these trying times. But I’m really good at extracting value from each card.

    • kbolino

      Iconoclasm did wonders for the Byzantine Empire, why not try it here and now?

    • leon

      I think i’ve figured it out.

      Leftists just hate loops. Think about the anger over loopholes.

      • kbolino

        They only hate “loopholes” when they can’t take advantage of them or don’t like the people who do.

        Buying a gun is a loophole. Avoiding business taxes is a loophole. Apologizing for right-wing ideas is a loophole.

        Getting an abortion is an inalienable right. Avoiding personal taxes on your yacht is just good sense. Apologizing for left-wing ideas is the whole point of free speech.

  30. DEG

    So, SMU was the choice, and the evening program was the way I was going to do it. This is probably my biggest regret from the entire period, because while I ended up where I wanted to be, the journey was very costly financially and otherwise. Texas would’ve ended up cheaper, would’ve let me enjoy school, and would’ve been a much happier experience than I had at SMU, in hindsight. On the other hand, there are some things that can only be learned through pain, and I’m grateful for what was learned.

    I received my graduate degree through a correspondence program at a state school in another state. I didn’t want to attend in-person classes as I wanted to keep my job. There were no programs at the time nearby that I could have gotten into that I thought would be worth the time and money.

    Part-way through the program, I started wondering if I made the correct decision. I stuck it out and received my graduate degree. I still sometimes think I made the wrong decision to go back to grad school.

    /reads bullet point list

    Ouch.

    I look forward to part three.

    • slumbrew

      Super, now ßehemoth. 2020, man.

  31. Annoyed Nomad

    I’m late to this discussion, but wanted to comment. Another great article Trsh! When I wrote my retirement approach article, I considered addressing some of the mistakes, missteps and bad luck that I experienced on the way to where I am today. Those included:
    – Married young to a spender – a drain on attempts to save
    – Bought Whole Life insurance. Paid those ridiculously high premiums for about ten years before cashing it in (for a small fraction of what I put in) and switching to term insurance.
    – “Loaned” savings to a relative. Never got paid back.
    – Bought a travel club “deal” – end result: money gone, no travel
    – Divorce with alimony and child support
    – Got laid off and accepted a job for 30% less pay
    – Hired a financial advisor who charged 1-2% to manage my IRAs. Fired him when I realized my 401K, which I “managed” myself, was growing at a faster rate with less choices.
    – Wasted time and money pursuing an invention idea. Cost me over $10,000 about 12 years ago; also took up a large part of my time that could have been applied to better life experiences.

    As I mention above (the first mistake), I married the wrong woman the first time. It’s hard for a couple to work towards smart financial goals when only one person is focused on it. I actually was willing to pay her off in more alimony/child support in the divorce agreement than I believed she deserved because it gave me the ability to control my finances.

    I found a great woman the second time around. My wife had the same mindset as I did – to have great experiences and retire comfortably early. We don’t fight about money; we plan together. My wife’s ex-husband was a spender as well. We’re now enjoying retirement while our exes are still working to pay off their debts. The best revenge against an ex-spouse is living a better life.