When the Shit Hits the Fan II – How to Keep Your Stuff
The current political situation notwithstanding, I reckon the odds of a major societal collapse to be pretty low. Things aren’t so hot right now, but the power is still on and the gas stations still have fuel. But still – we do have rolling blackouts in California. We have had riots in the streets over most of last summer. So, in the event the malodorous assimilated residue of the digestive process meets the oscillating air-movement device, it’s probably good to have some idea of what to do next. In fact, it’s probably good to have some idea what to do well ahead of time.
Even if it doesn’t actually happen, well, times are interesting, and in times like these, it’s sometimes entertaining to examine what life could be like after a major societal collapse. So, this series will give the thoughts of a simple old country boy from Allamakee County on how to get through any such really, really bad times.
Some of your neighbors may be a bit… off.
Location, Location, Location
In such an unpleasant situation as we’ve been discussing, your location will be key. If you’re in a major city, you may well be hosed. The suburbs? Depends on where, I suppose, and in which city you are in the suburbs of.
Rural locations will, in most ways, be the most survivable. Why? Food.
Mind you, I harbor a little bias here. My upbringing was largely rural, and my preference today, as you will have seen, is rural. And it’s generally in rural areas that you can keep enough stock and grow enough of your own food to keep your belly button from rubbing your backbone.
It’s not impossible to live in the ‘burbs, even if you have to convert your back yard to a truck farm, as long as you have enough of that yard to make a go of it. And in such an environment, it’s not likely that the city zoning people will come around to complain about your chickens. If you don’t have a big back yard and don’t have the opportunity to move, make sure you have some trade goods on hand. Salt comes to mind, or .22 shells – see farther down the article for more.
There is one big advantage of a rural setting: Isolation. When you have neighbors, you’re more likely to have some idea what kind of folks they are and enjoy pretty good odds of them being out there because they want to be left alone, too. And in the event of Something Bad Happening, you’re already farther away from unprepared townies who suddenly discover their local Home Foods is out of arugula.
Another big advantage of a rural setting is in the event things get really, really unsettled: A well set-up country place, with just a little bit of planning, is defensible.
It may come to this.
Preparation
If you have the opportunity to choose your location, there are two words you should remember: High ground, for the two big reasons: Defense and Drainage. (I’ve learned from hard experience that creeks and rivers inevitably flood, whereas high ground is usually dry ground.) If you already have a location, there are some things you’ll want to consider.
Suburban locales
- Visibility. Suburban housing tends to be rather poor in this regard. There are generally houses on either side, usually fencing – these days, often “privacy” fencing. Solid fencing is great most of the time, but if Something Bad Happens, it can cover an intruder’s approach until it’s too late to take much action.
- Neighbors. Know who they are ahead of time. Make contact. When things look like they’re going south, make plans. Coordinate. If something goes south in your neighborhood, make sure the whole neighborhood turns out. If you have to, Roof Koreans the shit out of that situation.
- Fakes. Some folks with bad intentions may disguise themselves as police – or they may actually be police who have abandoned the whole “serve and protect” thing in favor of the “fuck you, I have a badge and a gun and I’m taking your stuff” thing. Be careful of “authorities,” especially if they demand to enter your home or confiscate your property. It’s pretty ingrained in most civilized folks to not aggressively resist someone wearing an official uniform, but in extremis that uniform may not signify anything much.
- Sanitation. In less densely populated areas this isn’t as much of a problem, as lots of garbage can be burned, other, buried. But in town, you and your neighbors will accumulate trash in a hurry. A community burn-pit or burial pit would be a good idea. And when the plumbing doesn’t work, an outhouse can be the answer, but make sure it’s located well away from any water source.
Rural locales
- Visibility. Don’t let brush, weeds or trees grow right up to the house. Know where all of the high-speed avenues of approach are – those being avenues where a vehicle can approach. Have a location picked out where you can see (and cover) most of the property; if you can see it, you can hit it. If you can hit it, you can kill it. If it’s a deer or a moose, you can eat it!
- Neighbors. See above, but also: Have a communication plan. If something suspicious is going on in the area, make sure everyone around knows about it; rural homesteads tend to be spread out more than suburban housing, and an event at one end of the road may pass unnoticed at the other.
-
Typical townies.
Intruders. If Something Bad Happens, folks from the cities may well flood the countryside, thinking that there’s plenty of food in the sticks, but having no idea how to produce or obtain such food – and they may try to take yours. See Prudence, below.
- Sanitation. Most rural locales are already pretty well set-up here, but if you’re on a well or septic system, you may not have the opportunity to gain the specialized maintenance that these systems sometimes require. Keep a good supply of your favorite septic system treatment on hand and monitor your water quality. Your garbage pickup, assuming you have one, may not be available; burn what you can, feed to livestock or compost leftovers and organic trash, bury the rest. And if your septic system fails, well, consider this: Japanese farmers and gardeners have had good success with “night soil” fertilizer for a long time. Don’t be afraid to culturally appropriate that practice, even if most Westerners do find it off-putting.
Prudence
Caution is the order of the day.
Some time ago I related the story of watching a “reality” TV show which set up the participants actors in a small settlement on a riverbank in a supposed post-collapse countryside.
In the course of the show, two men in a boat appeared, displaying trade goods. The entire damned population of that little settlement, including two attractive young women, walked down to the riverbank, unarmed, and greeted the traders – not knowing who they were, where they came from, whether they were armed, what they really wanted or what nefarious intentions they might harbor.
I shouldn’t have to point out that, in a real-life situation, this is one of the most staggeringly stupid things anyone could do. At the very least, one or two members of the group should have been visibly armed and stayed at some distance from the strangers.
Why? Because if things get really bad, there will be people out there looking to trade, sure, but there will be people out there looking to take what you have without trade – and the latter may be willing to become the former if they see that you’re prepared to repel any nonsense. And to be perfectly blunt, in such an environment, it’s not unlikely that the two aforementioned attractive young women would themselves have been trade goods with considerable value in some quarters.
When unfamiliar people approach you after Something Bad Happening, it’s prudent to have them see you as a hard target. Be armed and cautious, but not threatening. The NAP applies, after all, but there’s nothing in the NAP that prevents from you responding to aggression with an overwhelming rejoinder.
Trust is something that should be earned in the best of times. In the worst of times, trust should be doled out with great parsimony, and only after a long time in the making. It’s not impossible, though, which brings us to:
Trade is a good thing.
Trade and Alliances
There will be people around you’ll want to engage in some form of commerce with, sooner or later. Once trust is established, trade is not only possible but desirable, as everybody has different skills, can produce different goods with ease and quality – thus re-establishing the basis of an economy. Some trade goods that can be produced:
- Food. You might have a big plot that produces potatoes or carrots like a house on fire. Your neighbor might have an apple orchard. Another may have a drove of swine or a big flock of chickens. Someone specializing in one commodity can generally out-produce an amateur. Take advantage of it.
- Salt. If you’re near an ocean, this could be a really valuable trade commodity, as salt has many, many uses, from seasoning and preserving food to curing hides. If you’re not near an ocean, well, that may not work so well, unless you’re in a salt-mine area.
- Niter. This is the primary component in black gunpowder and can be produced by anyone with livestock that produce a lot of manure, or in smaller scales from an outdoor latrine.
- Charcoal. Not only is it an important component of the aforementioned black powder, charcoal can also be used for cooking and even smelting.
- Soap. One can make lye from water and hardwood ash, and as long as you have some source of oils or fats, you can make soap. It may not be the flowery stuff you were once accustomed to, but cleanliness is next to healthiness, and that’s a lot easier to achieve with soap.
There are plenty more, not just commodities but skills that are valuable.
Also, once trust and trade are established, alliances are already well on the way to being formed. Next, consider a response team to address any challenges from people fleeing the cities, or just looking for trouble. Your group can contact other, like-minded groups in the larger area, which is a first step to restoring something like normalcy. Which brings us to:
Rebuilding
Hopefully, there will be some light at the end of the post-apocalypse tunnel. That means rebuilding some sort of societal order, and that will necessarily start locally. In fact, a ground-up development of a society may end up being a pretty groovy thing. But more on that another time.
Nine minutes in and I be Firstin’. This is a disgrace.
I have no opinion about this.
Me neither. I’m in the “hosed” category.
Your obsession with firstness reminds me of the 40-Year-Old Virgin.
Remember when Commiefornia Auschwitzed and curb-stomped all the little people’s chickens because SCIENCE? Also, remember when Reason gave a shit about the little people?
Some small degree of apology for the tangential offshoot of commentary this soon, Animal. Your wisdom is much appreciated.
DAMNIT! I didn’t see that one when it was released…THANKS NOW I AM NEEDING BLOOD PRESSURE MEDS!
Good stuff Animal – I might also say, keep a good medical jump bag. Large amount of useful OTC stuff, simple first aid supplies, etc. If you know how to treat simple things, you have a useful trade skill…now, where did I put that combat lifesaver stuff…?
I hound my wife to toss out expired antibiotics but now I am thinking, “yeah they are expired, but maybe won’t hurt to have them around” mentality.
I thought I read that the expiration dates on drugs was a scam by Big Pharma to make you buy new stuff and that the old stuff was still effective?
It is and yes less effective, but still do the job in a pinch. Since she just had a tooth infection, we just got more amoxicillin supply. We have a large stock of aspirin cause we kept winning free bottles with the Monopoly game at our local grocer.
General first aid kits we have cause of A: Kids and B: Business.
I want to get another inverter generator cause those suckers are quiet and I can put them in parallel if I need more wattage.
I had reason to look this up, and Dr. Google says Tramadol is still good years after the expiration date. Antibiotics? I’m not sure about.
From the web:
Depending on the manufacturer, the stock bottles will typically carry an expiration date of two to three years. However, pharmacists commonly make the expiration date on your prescription about one year — as long as that fits into the expiration time on their stock bottle.
Even without expiration, I can’t get enough pseudoephedrine to last until the government has collapsed.
Our family doctor told us that pills really don’t expire. They MIGHT become less effective over time, but they won’t make you sick like expired food. And it would take a long time for that to happen. So, we keep all our unused prescriptions in their bottles just in case, and that has come in handy several times.
It probably depends on the drug.
There are a few pill- or tablet-form drugs that do decline significantly in effectiveness after the expiration date. Aspirin is one. Most amphetamines have a short shelf life.
Liquid medicines, on the other hand, should generally be tossed upon expiration.
I’m thinking of doing another installment just on medicine, which, of course, I haven’t hinted at. Until now.
Excellent.
You forgot a couple spare changes of socks., soldier.
For medical use?
Is that an Air Force field expedient thing?
No. You can never pack enough socks.
Amen! Foot care/hygiene must never be overlooked. Also, nobody wants to be the guy rinsing out his filthy, crusty socks at the water buffalo.
This. Bad socks = bad feet.
Bad feet = bad news.
I had to give back my combat lifesaver bag. It was mostly saline solution and 800mg Ibuprofen.
Im a suburbs but we have a few things going for us that help our area. We are a cul-de-sac with a 20-30 foot drop behind the houses facing the parkway, one way in and one way out (except the fire department gate; which I would block with the various vehicles that are in garages that are project cars). We know all our neighbors including one that is a sheet metal worker and overall DIY guy.
Our problem in Vegas is water. We have the natural runoffs of monsoon nearby but that is far and few between. Plus we are at the base of some hills/mountains and I would have to see where our water table is at. Added that we are built on top of filled land, water is our crutch.
Plenty of boating accidents have occurred in our neighborhood and we have the option to just drive out into the big empty if it got really nasty. The Colorado river isn’t far, but everyone else knows that too.
Between a few neighbors we have probably 5-6 generators and fuel cans up the wazoo, ATV vehicles/golf carts/etc for rapid quiet transport.
There have been a few nights falling asleep to strategy of securing my neighborhood if need be.
Middle houses on the block become shelter for family/kids/school work. Outer houses become watch points. Etc. I fall asleep easily to that, so not too worried I suppose.
Where you live, is gathering rainwater (however infrequent) a crime? I know in Salt Lake, it is.
They “legalized” it in 2017 I believe and it can be obtained off a single-family roof. We only get 5in on average I believe.
Given we have a few storms rolling through, I might quickly set something up!
How in the hell is that a thing or constitutional?
That water fell on my property.
“Your” property is where you are wrong in the eyes of the state.
“Water rights” (and mineral rights) is a huge thing out west.
Water is for fighting. Whiskey is for drinking.
It fell through the commons above your head that you have no rights to, and proceeds into commons (rivers, etc.) that you also have no right to. It’s a weak ass theory, but there you have it.
It is similar for mineral rights. Typically you only have surface rights down so many feet. Below that can be mined without paying you any royalties. A few families that have owned their land for a long time have retained full mineral rights and get paid royalties.
My recollection is that whoever owns the mineral rights doesn’t have the right to come on your property, so even if they have been sold off, anyone who wants to drill or mine has to acquire permission from you to do so. You just don’t have any rights to what they pull out of the ground.
It varies by location. In SoCal there are people receiving royalties for oil extracted from beneath their land without any activity on the surface. You had to own the land from pre-oil days. They updated the rights to limit the depth.
I’ve specced out the defensibility of our neighborhood. It basically blows. One road in/out, but nothing stopping anyone from just walking in. Hell, use the washes, and nobody would even see you coming. Fortunately, we are on the very edge of the city, so by the time marauding gangs get to us, we’ll have plenty of notice. There are a number of good places to set up a sniper hide, so we’ve got that going for us. Several neighbors hunt, so we have some ability to deploy snipers.
The only way to grow food is in raised garden beds; not sure if any of my neighbors actually have any. We don’t.
There are a few who have solar panels, but like you, our Achilles heel is water. There is a good-sized pond about a kilometer away, but hauling water would be teh suck. Hauling enough to keep vegetable gardens alive would be teh major suck.
Basically, the neighborhood isn’t viable long-term without a functional society delivering essentials – power, water, food.
Ours isn’t ideal either, but my neighbor across the street who we are quite friendly with – I wouldn’t say we’re friends, exactly, but we’ve been neighbors for a long a time now and he brings us venison when his hunts have been particularly productive – is a heavily armed retired SEAL, so we have some backup if things
Looks like chipwooder was the first casualty of the apocalypse. Taken before he could complete his comment.
heh….unintentional. but I’m pleased with how it read for that reason.
Our 1 street neighborhood is okay. As far as vehicles, it’s 1 way in, 1 way out. Cul-de-sac. I live about 70% down the road from the entrance. That’s good.
But I don’t recon it would be difficult to approach on foot from all sides. We’re surrounded by a park on 1 side, a horse farm on another, and cow fields on the other. The entire neighborhood has a thick tree line boundary virtually all around. If shit ever hits the fan such that the hordes are coming out here, we’d have to coordinate sentry spots in the trees that will give a good view of the surrounding properties (which are all basically wide open).
I unfortunately have woods that come up to the back deck, meaning pretty easy access to the house through woods if you’re on foot (but it also means a decent Avenue of escape), and various other trees that block visibility to much of the back, but provide both cover and obstacles (along with the chicken coop town we have in the back.
One of the drawbacks is that you can only really see our house from one spot on the road. That’s good for privacy, bad for visibility beyond.
I do, however, have a fantastic elevated view of the only clear entrance way (that doesn’t involve going through the next door neighbor’s yard) on to the property.
My neighborhood is pretty isolated with one or two ways in by road, but if someone had an off-road vehicle, they could come in from any number of directions. Most of the neighbors are armed so most marauders would go elsewhere. We’d probably be ok for short term disruptions, like large scale riots in the cities or after a large earthquake. Longer term we’d have an issue with food and water. We probably could get a cow and water from one of the nearby ranches, but I don’t know what we’d be able to trade for it.
Magic beans!
We have a decently cooperative neighborhood, and we all certainly have our strengths.
I have chickens and a reasonably decent set of home protection tools (and the ability to manufacture ammo). Between eggs and bullets, along with things like offering to cover sentry duties and offer myself and sons to contribute to manual labor, should be able to curry favor with the very capable neighbor with shit loads of tools, heavy equipment, and know-how, along with cows (and who doesn’t have chickens or guns beyond a 22 and a 45 caliber lever rifle built from a kit in the 60s).
[Swoons]
For water, I just bought some containers from here.
I’m on municipal water, and if the water pumping station goes, I’m out of water. Thankfully, even in the worst power outages in my area, the town pumping station has kept on chugging.
During SuperDuperStorm Sandy, our peninsula went without electricity service for 2 or 3 weeks. A great many folk were unhappy to learn that the gravity fed cistern system in their buildings only worked to the 7th floor; electrical pumps were required to service those who lived above. The majority of the buildings that reach those heights are NYCHA public housing compounds. The residents were understandably cross at having to schlepp down to the street where fire plugs had been converted into field expedient public watering holes.
Thanks Animal
Our neighborhood has started “congealing” as of late with a lot of grown men that are more than a little concerned with the current trajectory.
I see it as a good thing that people are getting to know their neighbors again.
Sorry to go OT early, but I was just upstairs watching my Bird Feeder Cinema and wanted to share.
Yesterday I refilled the bird feeder and didn’t have a lot left over, so I dumped the dregs of the bird seed onto the ground for the squirrels. This morning I’m watching about six chickadees chowing on the seeds on the ground. Take that squirrels! Re-re-re-revenge!
Our bird feeder is pretty good at keeping most squirrels away, but every once in a while a really athletic squirrel makes it up there and loots it all.
Huh. A Chinook just did a flyby. I wonder what brings him to this part of the world.
Man, they are really pushing their territorial claims on the South China Sea if they are flying over your house.
Black Helicopters!? Ahhhhhh!
*runs of wearing a colander helmet and wielding a umbrella*
The threat of insurrection.
Salmon are flying near you?
Since I have little constructive to add…..
In a sluggish economy,
Inflation, recession in the land of the free,
Standing unemployment lines,
Blame the government for hard times
We just get by however we can
We all gotta duck when the shit hits the fan
Ten kids in a Cadillac,
Standing on line for welfare checks,
Let’s all leach off the state,
Gee the money’s really great
We just get by however we can
We all gotta duck when the shit hits the fan
Soup lines,
Free loaves of bread,
Five pound blocks of cheese,
Bags of groceries,
Social Security
Has run out on you and me
We do whatever we can,
Gotta duck when the shit hits the fan
Mmm… Love the Jerks.
I see it as a good thing that people are getting to know their neighbors again.
In my case, familiarity breeds nothing but contempt.
I’m still in search of a viable compound for my post apocalypse army.
Bring bacon & bourbon.
How big of a compound does it need to be?
Well, I don’t want a half-assed starter sized compound. I’m thinking midsized to large with good walls/fencing.
Ever since I learned about how egregiously FedGov screwed over Dr. Mudd, I’ve wanted to seize Ft. Jefferson. It’s as good a place as any; plenty of seafood and the weather is nice all year. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ft+jefferson&atb=v255-3__&iax=images&ia=images
I’ve been there. It’s really fucking cool.
I’ve been there too. It’s a neat place.
Until a fucking hurricane comes.
The Prisoner of Shark Island is a pretty good movie, too.
Rate the quality of bacon I put up on the forum to see if I can qualify 🙂
Looks pretty good.
I will walk up to the compound with it held high above my head so you don’t shoot.
My wife’s family has some land on the outskirts of town. Everyone in the family knows that it is our ‘gone to hell location.’ It has water, arable land and has defensible terrain. You all can come but you need to bring gas, grass or ass.
I have one of those things.
Crazy GME update: down to the mid 70s now. Still up for the day (closed Friday at 65), but it has been as high as 135ish today.
Good God, the daily chart is hilarious.
During one of my salmon smoking parties I had a buddy tell me that if the shit hits the fan, he was coming over because I knew survival shit like how to smoke meat and how to butcher game. (I didn’t have the heart to tell him that not only would I reject him if he came over, his wife was ugly/annoying enough that I wouldn’t even add her to my harem).
I had to tell him that there was all sorts of stuff I didn’t know how to do. And that even my smoking skills would be worthless without other peoples’ help (like getting a lot of salt).
For example, I never learned how to can from my mom. Or to pickle fish. My dad knows how to corn meat, but I haven’t bothered to learn that either.
I would think that a giant survival skill would be to learn ways to preserve food at a very basic level. WIthout needing to go to the store to buy stuff. Even canning vegetables would be hard without a stove to get your pressure cooker going.
If you can brine meat, you can corn as long as you have the salt. Since salt is relatively cheap and has a long shelf life, we pick it up on a constant basis.
Up here by the Great Lakes, we’ve got salt and water. Maybe I should try malting some grain myself to see if I can get it down. I know the basics, but have never tried it.
I spent some time last weekend watching videos on guys malting grain.
I have already started to think about solar-powered kilns for drying and roasting malts.
I’ve seen a couple articles that talk about starting to malt with popcorn (as it’s cheap and readily available). I feel like I’d also really need to practice and get good at krausening to get carbonated beer (as I’m sure sugar will be hard to get after the end)..
Finding people with useful skills and keeping their morale and motivation up, is a survival skill in and of itself. Special Forces A-Teams have an NCO slot for which this is their entire job.
Face or Murdoch?
Operations Sergeant is generally the ranking NCO, so that would have been Face.
The Ops NCO is usually part of the B-Team (Company HQ).
Was Murdoch a Warrant Officer?
And a Colonel would be the Group commander, not on a A-Team.
Murdoch would’ve been from the aviation support group, not part of the A-team itself either. This was clearly the remnants of a TF.
God, it’s so sad that I know this, but……Hannibal was a colonel, Murdoch was a captain, Face was a lieutenant, and BA was a sergeant.
What you might be thinking of is an ODA organizing according to staff functions, the Team Sergeant usually is the S-4; Team Lead, S-3; Senior 18E, S-6; 18F, S-2; and S-1 could be whoever.
That’s probably it. I’ve heard Team Sergeant and Operations Sergeant used interchangeably (and as an outsider with no military service, it’s entirely likely I missed some context. There was a bottle of scotch being passed around, too.)
Even canning vegetables would be hard without a stove to get your pressure cooker going.
And, you know, jars.
Heck, even getting those lids would be tough after a few years of dystopia.
So, while the world was going nuts and everyone was hoarding TP and Ammo, bright people were buying out Walmart for canning supplies.
Lids are now unobtanium. Scalpers (Amazon affiliates) are selling lids at a buck a piece ($12 for a pack of 12).
In comparison, I picked up six cases of cans/rings/lids at Walmart yesterday for 9 bucks a set.
I’ll be hitting Walmart every week to start building up a supply.
^^ Even are local grocer has them and we buy a lot of them.
Now in my bi-weekly rotation is salt (3 lb boxes) and a case of canning jars w/lids if in stock.
That’s what molten wax was for when I was a kid. Plus it’s re-usable.
Indeed. Paraffin, beeswax, and tallow will all seal out air/moisture quite nicely.
Another plus is hygiene that we have going for us. My wife is the type of person that picks up three things from the store whenever she goes: Deodorant, toothpaste and mouthwash. We have a huge stockpile of toothbrushes from when she worked dental. We have a ton of water-less soap to take a redneck bath in if need be too.
You smell like Teen Spirit?
What does that smell like? Axe Body Spray and Clearasil?
Teachers tell me the overpowering smell of Axe starts in the pre-teen years.
My wife and I have had 2 phrases we’ve used with both boys since the day they were born. We’ve never once explained it to them.
1 is just stating to understand, the other is still clueless as to what we mean, but he’ll get it shortly.
1 – No skanks.
2 – No Axe.
I would think that a giant survival skill would be to learn ways to preserve food at a very basic level. WIthout needing to go to the store to buy stuff. Even canning vegetables would be hard without a stove to get your pressure cooker going.
I have spent a little time thinking about this stuff. Very little, actually, but!
You might have near godlike status in the post apocalyptic waste land if you had a steam engine and the technical knowhow to keep it running.
steam or water gas
Gasifier FTW!
I often wondered about that. The wealth of humans explodes after the industrial revolution but I see very little of that in articles about prepping. I get that you have to survive the collapse but how do you rebuild. I guess that depends on what kind of collapse we’re talking about and how severe. I also get the feeling there’s a bit of a fantasy of being king of the ashes in some articles. Not you Animal of course.
see my Lucifer’s Hammer comment below.
It was all about forming the stable base to rebuild from quickly.
You could also have godlike status if you had a lot of stickers with random FaceBook and Twitter pages printed on them. When the shit hit the fan and people couldn’t recharge their phones, they would pay you for stickers to slap on their phone so they could feed their social media addiction.
I think it would be depressing to see how many people would rather have the stickers instead of access to a stupid old steam engine.
PKD did it first. There were several short stories about post-apocolyptic people spending their time making, buying, and trading doll house accessories.
Squeal!!! The Perky Pat playsets were, far and away, the Dick stories that I enjoyed the most.
start here
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=encyclopedia+of+country+living&crid=13LTI5FWQV7JA&sprefix=encylopedia+of+cou%2Caps%2C205&ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_3_18
This thread is why everyone who posts here is going to end up on a list.
We already are.
And, sadly, you will never be first on that list.
*applause*
Well done
Sadly, you’re correct. These days planning for a bad situation is the same thing as planning to create that bad situation.
Seriously- if you were the only person in a hundred mile radius with electricity and running water, what *wouldn’t* people be willing to offer you?
Trade their women folk?
More likely someone would be willing to kill you for it.
electricity, running water, and lots of ammunition.
It may be a children’s book (maybe) but it would still be useful to have around: https://www.amazon.com/Way-Things-Work-David-Macaulay/dp/0395428572/ref=sr_1_2?crid=163B52JO3FT5I&dchild=1&keywords=the+way+things+work&qid=1611596680&sprefix=the+way+thing%2Caps%2C197&sr=8-2
Rhis was about time travel but it would be pretty applicable to the scenario Animal is proposing.
All sorts of people understand electricity at a basic level, but if they had to provide it themselves, they’d be absolutely lost.
How long would it take to restore the power grid?
More likely someone would be willing to kill you for it.<
Okay, MNG.
Why do that, when an equitable exchange of services would suffice?
*makes sign of cross*
P Brooks has invoked the Devil.
No, that was an imp, not a demon.
An Imp with a PhD though.
I’m fairly optimistic that people would cooperate, but I do have a nagging suspicion that if mechanical power sources go away we are going to see slavery come back.
Slavery was the key to large scale agriculture in the past, I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be in a dystopian future. The only thing that would help is that the concept of mechanical power would still be around, so people would be desperately trying to bring it back rather than enslave people.
In case you’re not being sarcastic and invoking dreams of Libertopia…
He who has the power can compel others to work for him without an equitable exchange.
You have electricity and water. Someone stronger than you comes along, sees the opportunity for self-enrichment, kills you for it. Now he owns it and can extract goods and services from people coming to seek said electricity and water.
Unless someone stronger than he comes along, he’s the king of the hill, the chief of the Electricity and Water Tribe and will act accordingly, keeping his power by whatever means necessary.
There is no equitable exchange. In a SHTF scenario, he who has the gold (and the lead to back it up) makes the rules.
Why do that, when an equitable exchange of services would suffice?
That’s a mighty civilized apocalypse you got there, be a shame to see something bad happen to it.
Legit LOL.
“Why do that, when an equitable exchange of services would suffice?”
The equitable exchange of services is how you get the household troops to defend Castle Steam against barbarians.
Good article, Animal. Esp. the well and septic treatment point. That’s something we hadn’t considered.
Too old to worry about it. Had a good life already. My plan is to try to take one of them with me if it comes to that.
One? I have a bit more ambition than that – at least 3 or 4. If I get double digits I’ll call it a blaze of glory.
These threads make me think of the compound in Lucifer’s Hammer.
Okay, someone tell me why an updated version of Lucifer’s Hammer wouldn’t make an excellent series on Netflix or Hulu or Amazon Prime or wherever.
Because it’s been called racist.
Does anyone really care what retards have to say?
Unfortunately, yes.
Other retards. We should not humor them.
Unfortunately the screeching mobs on twitter have an outsized influence on the entertainment industry. They got an actress fired from The Mandalorian because she (a former MMA fighter) had the temerity to say that men that think they are women should not fight actual women.
Sure.
The other retards. You know, the ones running the production companies and content distribution companies.
I can’t think of anything that might have been that couldn’t be rewritten as part of the update.
I honestly can’t think of it, was the Reverend that united the cannibals and the military unit with his followers black? That is the only thing I could possibly think of, and like I said, easily rewritten.
How much of it was racist?
So much you couldn’t cut it out? You know you are going to have to do a lot of rewriting anyhow to shoe horn in the obligatory gay, black, asian and trans characters, so maybe you could cut out the problematic parts then?
Always double-wrap it before you tap it.
One of the common looks throughout President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris’ inauguration were “double-masking,” where someone wears an N95 mask underneath a cloth mask. The New York Times gushed about the practice, calling it a “fashion trend” that is a “sensible” and “easy way” to lower your risk of catching the coronavirus.
The premise of the article was simple: a single mask isn’t very effective, but double-masking – or even triple-masking – is effective.
“One big advantage of double-masking that I’ve found is that it creates a better fit and closes the gaps around the edge of your mask. I like layering my masks. When I walk the dog or exercise outdoors, I wear a regular mask to comply with area mask rules,” the article stated. “When I want more protection for short errands, I wear a better mask. When I’m in a taxi or on a train, I double-mask.”
*sigh*
Not a fucking whit of evidence that makes a difference.
In fact, I will bet money that putting a cloth mask over the N95, degrades its effectiveness in stopping infection.
Even if double masking let to a 400% spike in Rona deaths, the good news is that it won’t be reported in the MSM for fear that it would cast doubt on Biden’s super awesome Covid Plan.
Maybe try a plastic bag too.
Double-masking might increase the useful life of the N95 a little, but doesn’t increase its effectiveness.
If your N95 has gaps around the edges, you are wearing it wrong and its probably not doing a whole lot to protect you or others.
At that point, put on an old fashioned diving helmet or a spacesuit. The idea of double masking totally misses the issues behind the masks in the first place (they would need to filter down to the micron level and they still do not protect other areas) and they don’t take into account that you need to get oxygen from somewhere (why you see half the people with them down below the nose or just hanging there), and when you take the fucking things off, even if they did work, you would then be susceptible.
Not to mention that half of what is driving mask use is that it is one more thing for the “fashion-conscious” to accessorize. And that, more than anything, is what is keeping the damn things in use.
I have decided to get back in touch with my inner flower child, and so, I now strive for a greener, more sustainable life style, cause we should all worship mother nature, like, you know.
+1 Back to the land movement.
Nice knowing ya’
*sets up over/under pool on kinnath’s demise*
kinnath’s little stretch of heaven will be surrounded by defensive plantings (thorn bushes are really cool things, and seeds are cheap on Amazon) and overseen with 9mm, 223, and 308.
+1 Japanese Roses.
Leo Frankowski’s Conrad Stargard series is worth adding to any post-apocalyptic entertainment library…
I often wondered about that. The wealth of humans explodes after the industrial revolution but I see very little of that in articles about prepping.
I used to watch one of those “Prepper” shows on occasion, and to be honest, the only guy I ever saw who didn’t come off as a complete delusional Sad Sack was a guy who was setting himself up as the End of the World Mercantile and Exchange. He wasn’t going to seal himself up in an underground bunker. He was going to grow food, load bullets, trade, make, and fix.
One of the common looks throughout President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris’ inauguration were “double-masking,” where someone wears an N95 mask underneath a cloth mask. The New York Times gushed about the practice, calling it a “fashion trend” that is a “sensible” and “easy way” to lower your risk of catching the coronavirus.
Right. Cover up the N95 with a fashion accessory mask, so people won’t think you’re crazy?
*test-fits barrel of shotgun in mouth*
Hold on there pardner!
How exactly did you “test fit” a shotgun barrel in your mouth…. UNLESS YOU WEREN’T WEARING YOUR MASK!!!!!!!
Do you want the poor cop who comes along to do a welfare check on you to catch the Rona from your corpse?
Regarding mechanical power and slavery, I think a re-read of Anthem is in order.
Read Anthem while listening to 2112.
In 2019, I would have thought that most of the slavery would be involuntary.
Now?
My guess is a lot of people would willingly enter slavery if it meant that they would be kept safe from other war lords and didn’t starve to death.
“Hey, you can come on in here, but you will have to work the fields for me. I’ll make sure you have a safe cabin to live in and enough food to get through the winter.”
“Where do I sign?”
Looks like Vegas (and where I live) will get some snow again. Usually its a decade between snowfalls in the valley.
Snow is expected at elevations above 2,000 feet. – My house is at 2600 feet. My kids will be happy.
I saw ice there one morn before the sun came up in…ot 2??…
Yeah probably 02, 08, 2018 and now 2021 it looks like. Makes my wife nervous and probably reschedule her dogs cause she is terrified to drive the trailer in icy conditions.
There is no equitable exchange. In a SHTF scenario, he who has the gold (and the lead to back it up) makes the rules.
Maybe it’s my complete lack of religious faith, but I don’t believe in Original Sin or that mankind is inherently and intrinsically evil.
Libertopia and water rights, courtesy @hyperbole
Nerds.
You don’t have to believe in that to see how people operate in everyday ‘ordered society’ though. You will always have the takers, the strongmen(women) and whisking those away believing that we would all come together when/if it got really bad is naive in my opinion.
Maybe not intrinsically evil, but we all have the potential for it.
This is the basis for Jordan Peterson’s entire philosophy.
And it only takes a few.
That is indeed a large part of the problem. One a-hole has the capacity to make the lives of thousands of non-a-holes miserable during the course of one human lifetime (think of the outsized damage a career thief can do, or that one “bad kid” who grows up in a neighbourhood and stays there as an adult, never quite doing anything bad enough to get arrested/convicted but continually screwing over his/her neighbours…).
or that mankind is inherently and intrinsically evil.
Inherently and intrinsically has the potential for evil – the expression thereof depends a great deal on social context.
What about inherently and intrinsically self-centered? One need not be a super-villain to be corrupted by evil.
It’s hard to discuss evil without diving into the faith context. Frankly, I haven’t encountered a good secular definition of evil that didn’t devolve into “I think that person’s icky”, so I’ll approach it from the worldview familiar to me.
Two big rules in the Christian faith:
1) love God above all else
2) love your neighbors as you do yourself
Setting aside the loving God part, how many people do you know who love others as much as or more than themselves? I know some people who may love one or two others as much as they love themselves, or people who may humble themselves in a moment of self sacrifice, but it’s almost impossible to conceive of even a single person living a life where they see their own interests and gain as only merely being on the same level as that of the strangers living the next street over.
In my Prohibition book, there’s a Mormon bishop who is there mostly because he’s a former bootlegger whose congregation has a symbiotic relationship with the Mafia and the Machine. He’s a vet by trade and he hates preaching (he doesn’t have to–the members give talks). But every once in a while, he gives his “Two Rules Sermon”. He passes this down to my main character who is recruited to be a bishop because he IS part of the Machine and he can protect the flock (see: Missouri Mormon extermination order) when the old bishop retires.
Anyway, so in my first book, there is a discussion of faith and “rules” (Mormons are notorious for rules; it was a plot point), and one character says this exact thing to the one with the issues. Prohibition bishop is the grandfather of 3 main characters in book 1 and taught his family that way.
If you can decipher all that, ‘grats. I just get excited when you and I have a point of theological agreement, and especially one which I feel very strongly about, so I end up sounding like Horshack.
In fact, I will bet money that putting a cloth mask over the N95, degrades its effectiveness in stopping infection.
The warm moist region between the masks seems like a spectacularly efficient incubator for any number of nasty things.
Another factor in survival is the ability to suck it up and get back to the basics. Be able to choke down food that would gag a hyena. Live a stripped down life.
Two things I read which illustrate what I’m talking about:
1) During Napolean’s retreat from Moscow, I read something about a large number of the survivors being the soldiers who were willing to crawl into the mounds of horse shit from the calvary to stay warm.
2) An anthropologist who was living with the Inuits writing about them eating rancid seal meat at the end of winter because it was the only thing left to eat. The natives prepared it in a special way to try to make it more palatable. When the anthropologist asked them about their noble savage way of food preparation, they looked at him like he was crazy and said they didn’t like to eat the seal that way, just that it was the only way they could choke it down and survive.
Both were things I read years and years ago. Not sure how true it was, but it made me think. How many people would die because they weren’t willing to choke down semi-rotten food?
I’ve spent a bit of time thinking about life in medieval times and how they survived from season to season.
They spice trade was driven in large part by the need to eat semi-spoiled foods at the end of winter.
A friend of mine will commonly comment that spicy food became popular in warmer areas because the spice would hide the rancidness of the meat.
I have friends that will throw out meat if its past the date on the package, without inspecting it to see if it turned. People today, besides hunters/survivalist/chefs wouldn’t have any idea when meat has turned.
You’ll know. [Grew up poor]
At one point in my life, the only meat I ever bought was from the local supermarket’s “Reduced For Quick Sale” bin.
Please. I still do that. Especially with the recent rise in meat/vegetable prices, it’s one of the few ways I’ve been able to keep the weekly bill under control.
My wife buys fish and meat trimmings. They are inexpensive and good for soups and stocks.
Trimmings are getting harder to find — most of the supermarkets around here get cryovac deliveries of large animal sections which have been pre-trimmed, and then they break the cryovaced stuff down into the cuts they’re going to sell. Very little retail-level waste.
I have an “old-fashioned” butcher near me, but even he says he hasn’t actually broken down a whole side or carcass of beef (for example) in many, many years. They’re available, but you have to leave the city (or know a rancher) to get ’em.
We still get them here from Publix and Wegmans. Fish heads and other trimmings mostly. Beef trimmings are rarer.
I’ve long suspected that spicy food was just a way to cover up bad meat.
Note that the spiciest traditional dishes tend to come from warm-weather cultures.
Forcing yourself to eat every edible part of an animal too, I imagine. I have absolutely no desire to eat organs, etc, but when not doing so means flirting with starvation, then brains it is!
Another thing I read was that the traditional plains Indians used the entire buffalo because it was so difficult to kill them with only stone age bows and arrows. When you got one of them down, everything was converted into something useful.
Once they got horses and iron for arrowheads they began to kill so many buffalo that they didn’t use all of the carcass either. (and they experienced a population explosion). Once they got firearms, the race was really on.
The author said that even if the white eyes hadn’t decided to slaughter the buffalo themselves, the herd would have been decimated by the plains Indians themselves.
Interesting. I did not know that.
I bet they would have killed a lot more than ten percent of them.
The ‘traditional’ plains indians acted as every other hunter gatherer and got them to stampede off cliffs. No, they would not have used ‘every part of the buffalo’; but now with industrialization the hooves can be sent off for glue, the hides for jackets…
The same people who claim ‘every part of the buffalo’ are the same that find it degusting when organ meats are used in sausage.
I remember reading an article from someone who survived at sea adrift for a while. He commented that eventually your brain changes what you consider good, and specifically called out fish eyes as something he had started craving (and said they were like candy when he got them).
I eat the eyes when I grill whole trout. Sometimes to freak out my daughter, but mostly because they are delicious.
Not to Self: Don’t try to impress Tundra’s daughter by eating fish eyes, it will only remind her of her creepy dad.
Relevant.
You boomers and linking to the beginning of youtube videos with long intros. No wonder Nick Gillespie can’t find a millennial fuck buddy.
You young ‘uns, not knowing the value of setting the stage.
I would assume they had the necessary fat content that their body needed.
Doesn’t even take that long. I was listening to a podcast about the wreck of the Medusa and the survivors stranded on a raft started in on cannibalism on Day 4.
Day 4? That’s just rude.
Legit LOL.
These threads make me think of the compound in Lucifer’s Hammer.
I read Lucifer’s Hammer in college, and have no useful recollection of it. However, the Middle Age monastery model in A Canticle for Leibowitz made perfect sense to me.
believing that we would all come together when/if it got really bad is naive in my opinion.
Not all, but enough.
Consider the “lawless” frontier.
Ungrateful twerp.
The family had no idea Jackson reported Mr. Reffitt to the F.B.I. until he made an appearance on CNN, the teen noted.
“I put my emotions behind me to do what I thought was right,” Jackson said, according to the Times.
“It was my moral compass, kind of, to do what I thought would protect not only my family, but my dad himself,” the teen told Fox 4 News. “And it wasn’t just because I think my dad is aggressive, I think what he’s been manipulated into thinking is aggressive.”
“If you turn me in, you’re a traitor,” Jackson says his father told him. “And you know what happens to traitors. Traitors get shot.”
The young man has appeared on CNN with host Chris Cuomo and spoke to local media and The New York Times about his actions. He has also set up a GoFundMe account that has racked up donations totaling over $100,000, and climbing.
Speaking to Cuomo on CNN airwaves, Jackson said he would “definitely” report his father again if he had a do-over. “I’d definitely do it again,” he told the host.
Worthless little shit. Hope his mother and sister cut him out of their lives for good, since he’s proven to be a snake.
He’s studying political science. He’s going to be leeching off the taxpayers for the rest of his existence. He’s already a made-man in the Democratic party.
This is CCP type shit.
That’s actually a really apt analogy – it is just like the Mafia. You think you can ditch your family and morals and ingratiate yourself with this new family. It will be a fun ride for a while, but the second you’re no longer valuable to them or go against them in any way, they’ll rip you to shreds.
Do you know who else trained people’s kids to turn in their parents?
<blockquote<"Who denounced you?" said Winston.
"It was my little daughter," said Parsons with a sort of doleful pride. "She listened at the keyhole. Heard what I was saying, and nipped off to the patrols the very next day. Pretty smart for a nipper of seven, eh? I don't bear her any grudge for it. In fact, I'm proud of her. It shows I brought her up in the right spirit, anyway."
Here’s a question – how did this become public knowledge and a news story? I suspect it was because this ungrateful backstabber contacted the media himself – “Hey, I turned in my Trumpist dad and now, poor me, I’m a pariah to my family!”
Mosdef he contacted Fredo to get himself on TV.
“Gold Jerry! Gold!”
Hmm, now how will I capitalize on this? Publicity and woe-is-me fundraising! And Brooks is telling us about the lack of intrinsic and inherent evil in humans?
Uffda. Once this kid gets an engraved invitation to some Ivy League school like Yale or Harvard (ala Hogg), how many other people will be thrown to the wolves by ambitious wannabee kids who don’t have the skills or the connections to get into the prestigious schools?
And how long will it be before a degree from Harvard or Yale will condemn you because entire classes are composed of nothing but snitches and worthless kids from the ruling class?
“Jackson is in his first semester studying political science at Collin College.”
Of course he’s studying political science.
Fame and fortune are seductive, and there’s no reason the media would denounce its own currency.
his GoFundMe is up to $113,000.00 – much brave, so selfless…
I see Rob Portman has announced he will not seek re-election. Guess that means he’s going to start voting for all kinds of leftist garbage, specifically gun control if I had to guess.
The media/Dem/Cuck RIght spin has already started how this is A REALLY REALLY DISASTROUS TURN FOR THE GOP.
Trump crushed it in Ohio both times. The right candidate, with Trump’s backing, should both hold the seat and actually turn it into a conservative vote.
On the other hand, Ohio keeps electing Sherrod Brown, so who the hell knows.
Brown lucked into 2018 when the Resistance got mobilized. If he had been on the ballot in 2016 or 2020 with all the Trumpaloos voting, he’d have been fucked. Next time he stands is the POTUS year.
*sigh*
Realize that DeWine (and Kasich before that) is the face of the Republicans here in Ohio… and despair. FFS, my Republican rep was one of the 10 who voted for impeachment in the House.
And why exactly is that? The state went solidly Trump twice. But you seem to have the most RINO of RINO’s in positions of power.
Wish I knew, in general we get squishy Republicans for a couple years, then a Democrat who’s somehow even worse and more corrupt for a term or two. Then we go back to a squishy Republican, and the cycle starts anew. FFS, look at the Ohio Dems who have had national fame: Springer, Trafficant, Kucinich…
Traficant had his moments.
I was thinking that Kasich, or even Boehner, might jump in to replace Portman.
If Portman turns coat and votes for Dem proposals, his Repub successor will come too late.
If they eliminate the filibuster, it’s just gonna be Murkowski/Mitt/Portman/Collins/Sasse/Toomey/Graham making Grand Bipartisan Decisions of State.
The Dems have 50 true believers, the Republicans have 42 true believers and 8 turncoats who dream of being feted by the NYT and the WaPo for “standing for good government and bipartisan compromise.”
Controlled opposition.
I like the article. A couple of thoughts:
as long as you have enough of that yard to make a go of it
And good soil. My parents have two acres and tried to set up a garden. The combination of poor soil (sandy and in general crappy) with their age meant they abandoned it.
About the police: The scenario a friend of mine who is a prepper is most worried about is the beginning of a collapse. In some locales, like where he lives, the police will try to enforce the law. My friend posited this scenario: Someone breaks into his house, and he shoots the intruder. The cops arrive, and as usual where he lives, they arrest the homeowner while they investigate to see if it really was a self-defense scenario. So now he’s in jail, but his house and supplies are undefended. How long will he be in jail? If things completely collapse, will he ever get out of jail (i.e. be forgotten as the cops rush off to take care of their own).
Yep in that scenario it will be trust no one unless they are within our circle.
This goes along neatly with my idea that the most critical element of any survival plan is mobility.
You want to be able to pick up stakes at a moments notice, whether you’re getting away from danger, or going towards better economic prospects. And you want to be warm, dry, and well-fed when you get there.
The most important thing in your SHTF stockpile isn’t food or water or guns – it’s a reliable, paid-off truck or SUV, in perfect mechanical condition, and enough gas to get you to the next town…
If society is collapsing to that point, does it really matter if it’s paid off yet?
Bad credit can ruin your apocalypse experience.
I just thought that Navy Federal probably isn’t going to repo my truck if I stop making payments after I flee to the woods.
*Stops by the Mad Max kill-mobile store*
Salesman: “Sorry, after a look at your credit we can’t finance the Peterbilt with razor wire and a flame thrower. However, we can offer you a AMC Gremlin with a pointy stick duct taped to the roof.”
Option #2.
What does it say about you, and me, that I knew exactly what that link was going to be?
?
Yup. Society will NEVER collapse to the point that debt collectors and repo agents won’t be a thing.
Phew, and here I was getting worried.
This reminded me of Stalag 17, when the Animal is envious of all the letters Harry gets at mail call, until he finds out they’re not love letters but actually a bunch of past due notices from a finance company, which is pursuing him even in a POW camp:
“So they want the third payment on the Plymouth….*starts dropping letters* so they want the fourth, the fifth, the sixth, the seventh….so they want the Plymouth.”
I’ve said it before, but for my money, Stalag 17, Mr. Roberts, and M.A.S.H., are the most brutally honest war films ever made.
Mobility is important I guess if you currently live where you can’t survive a breakdown in civil society.
But mobility won’t do you much good if you’re not welcome where you get to or don’t have the ability to take it from whoever is already there.
I got my acre in rural Iowa. I can grow most of what two people need to eat. I have the second smallest lot in the association. Must of the other house have two to three acres. Most of my neighbors have ATVs. A couple of them tractors. Many of them hunt.
I think we can all get along just fine.
I mean, if you already live in a spot that will never become unsustainable, that’s great. That’s the brass ring.
But I suspect that a lot of people thought that themselves in the years leading up to the Dust Bowl.
Having options is always a good thing.
You mean I should plan for a catastrophic environmental event as well as the collapse of civil society.
Improbably event times improbable event is “I don’t care”.
That Yellowstone caldera will erupt.
Just probably not in our lifetimes.
Shoot. Shovel. Shut the Fuck up.
+ 10 mm
My copy of “The Great Reset” arrived today.
Once I finished reading the latest edition of Ian Skennerton’s Lee-Enfield book, I’ll read “The Great Reset” and share my thoughts with you.
I’m told by several sources that it is, above all else, a turgid, insanely boring read.
Skennerton isn’t that. His book is poorly organized and the List of Changes gets a little dull, but his book isn’t that bad.
Article! Article! Article!
That was my plan.
The equitable exchange of services is how you get the household troops to defend Castle Steam against barbarians.
Somebody gets it.
Yep. If I had fuck you money (like if I had won the billion dollar lotto last week), I’d have a nice big ranch somewhere way out in flyover country, far from big cities and main roads. With a big house, well sited, lots of storage full of useful stuff, all the usual TEOTWAKI list of things. Would also have vetted and selected some shooters, preferably family men, preferably Green Berets. Because for years and years I’ve been setting up that ranch, I’ve been spreading cash around the local community. I’ve walked into the bank and paid 10k on the closest 50 mortgages to my property. I’ve walked into the local hospital bursar and paid off medical bills. I’ve put a new roof on every church, I’ve sponsored every sports team, I’ve got a scholarship fund for the local high schools and trade schools. I want every single person within 30 miles of my ranch to have benefited from me, either directly or indirectly for years before the shit hits the fan.
Inhale.
Scientists are completing work on a nasal spray that can prevent COVID-19 for up to two days and it could hit the market by summer, according to a new report.
The spray, being developed by scientists at the University of Birmingham in the United Kingdom, catches the virus in the nose and covers it in a coating from which it can’t escape, The Telegraph reported.
That means someone using the spray could safely exhale because the virus would be harmless, the paper said. The scientists believe using it four times a day would be enough for general protection.
Dr. Richard Moakes, the study’s lead researcher, said with the widespread use of the spray, social distancing restrictions could be eased and its use could “get schools going again.”
What if I spray
mymeth with it?Thanks, Animal. I sincerely hope this stuff never comes to pass.
However, I ordered three books from Steven Rinella on hunting, butchering and wilderness skills. I have no illusions about my chances in a post-apocalyptic world, but I do want to get back to some of the outdoors stuff I used to do and expand some skills.
I have some things I need to square away before I can leave, but now more than ever, I want to get out away from things.
Just by thinking about it, you’re in the 85th percentile. By doing something about it, you’re in the 90th percentile. Certainly doesn’t guarantee you health and long life in the Mad Max scenario, but it gets you into a position to be able to scrape together a continued existence if a few things fall your way.
It seems to me that there could be many levels to this sort of thing. The Road is one extreme, and yeah almost everyone would end up dying in that case even if they tried to prepare. Other lesser-degree disruptions could be much more survivable with the right preparations and mindset.
It seems to me that there could be many levels to this sort of thing
Very much this. Starting by prepping for a Mad Max event is a bad idea. Start with what’s most likely to happen and then expand from there towards less probable scenarios. The End of the World As We Know It (TEOTWAWKI) type event isn’t going to be nuclear Armageddon for a family… it’s more likely to be the death of a parent/spouse who’s the only breadwinner.
Buying extra cans of food each at the grocery store and then cycling through them to keep a couple months food store on hand can help keep food on the table if Dad loses his job. It’s easy and cheap to do. Then go for bulk grain to give a year or two.
I’m about to spin up a topic in the forum about exactly this. I’m not the most knowledgeable on the topic, but “practical prepping” is something I find much more important than fixating on societal collapse (not disparaging Animal’s excellent series at all… just critiquing the escapist type preppers who can’t see beyond their delusions of importance to recognize the forms of crisis most likely to hit them)
Yep. I used to listen to Jack Spirko’s The Survival Podcast, before it became a nonstop ad for permaculture events, and that was the main message. Start prepping for the most likely events (natural disaster that knocks power out for a week, dead spouse, a lost job) and then expand from there. Prepping for societal collapse has its place too but only after already being prepared for the more mundane and probable scenarios.
x2 on Animal’s excellent series.
I am not planning for SHTF at this point.
I view the most likely outcome as a return to the Carter Years and Reagan 1st term when we had 10% inflation and 10% unemployment.
Since retirement is three to six years from now, the idea of living on a fixed income with prices going up 10% a year is pretty terrifying.
So the first plan is to assume that bulk goods (flour, noodles, rice, beans, sugar, salt) are available, and we have to grow most of the rest of what we need. {I call this step, involuntary vegetarianism.}
We have 1 1/6 acres. 1/4 to 1/3 of that is inside a 6 ft wooden privacy fence. Step 1 is doable within the fence.
SHTF is step two. How to protect what is ours and deal with the loss of bulk goods.
Same here – planning for inflation. Expanding my garden (plan is over a few years) slowly. Doing more canning and freezing. Saving more because even with inflation, better to have than not.
You are the guy who I fear Tundra! You live close by and know I have a stash of Fourscore’s honey.
This year my family learned how to butcher a pig. I have to confess that step 1 is to contact a farmer/butcher and pay him for a carcass that has been slaughtered, skinned and cooled down, but after that it was all us. We followed along to this video. My sons thought the guy constantly slapping the pig was hilarious and made sure to slap along with the video.
In reality, pig butchering was easier than a deer. With pork, the fat is good and you don’t have to work so hard to get it all off like you do with venison.
That reminds me, I’m out of honey!
The young man has appeared on CNN with host Chris Cuomo and spoke to local media and The New York Times about his actions. He has also set up a GoFundMe account that has racked up donations totaling over $100,000, and climbing.
Wow. The real Young Pioneers just got a lapel pin and a red neckerchief.
As I said, the social context determines the expression of our inherent capacity for evil.
something something Iron Law something
Oh, by the way, those of you on the Zoom call from Friday wondering who the mysterious brief, shrouded in darkness, visitor was, it was me. The missus was home and in a grouchy mood. I could hear her yelling from the driveway, so I left suddenly to see what was wrong.
That is one thing that always annoyed the hell out of me about the Walking Dead after seven years or whatever (I stopped watching around season three or four) people would have become pretty damn organized, IMHO. There was still a great deal of infrastructure intact and undoubtedly someone would know or figure out how to use all the stuff and figure out how to deal with the zombie hordes (airdropped napalm would be my go-to). We are an extremely social species, organizing and working together to solve problems and destroy threats is kind of our thing.
I always liked the original Mad Max in that clearly the SHTF, but it wasn’t like things reverted back to pre-historic times. Society was functioning in many ways the same as it was before, but the difference was a general lack of a sense of order or safety.
Yes. There’s a big difference between Mad Max and The Road Warrior. In Mad Max, clearly things are deteriorating, but there is still some level of civil society. Greatly degraded, but still there. In Mad Max, there is no greater society at all, only whatever small groups that have coalesced.
Mad Max seems like a much more likely scenario. Hell, in some cities this past summer, they were pretty close to Mad Max.
As I said, the social context determines the expression of our inherent capacity for evil.
Trust, but verify.
Origin of the handshake.
Fauci has decided we don’t need this custom anymore:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fauci-perfect-world-americans-stop-shaking-hands/story?id=70062797
What an arrogant prick
Sure, and your security does not come from the generosity of others. That scales from the personal through the group right up to the nation-state level.
“trust me”
– Joe Biden
When we moved here ~35 years ago there was an intermittent stream below the property so I figured we’d have water in a SHTF situation. In the meantime, though, the guy upstream dammed it up so now we’re high and dry, so to speak. There is a river about two miles away but hauling water could be a problem. I could put a water can on my ATV but gasoline is going to run out sooner or later. I’ve got 15 gallons on hand but that’s not going to last long. Long-term gas storage is not an option because it degrades after a while (that’s why you drain your lawn mower at the end of each season.)
Similar deal for electricity. I have a decent-sized generator that I can use to power the refrigerator and freezer but it is not enough to power my electric heat, hot water, or cookstove. Even then, it burns through about 5 gallons in about 8 hours so at best my gasoline reserves are only good for about a day.
Even with propane heat, etc, the gas is only going to last a limited time. Then what?
So, we fall back to the wood stoves for heat and for cooking. Not bad in the winter but cooking on a wood stove in the summer? And even though we are surrounded by trees they will need to be cut and split to be used. I can split by hand (Oh! my aching shoulders!) but cutting them in a wholesale manner requires a chain saw and here we are, back at the gasoline requirement.
A few years ago we looked into installing solar panels but the grid-tie systems will not let you divert power to the house. I’m enough of an electrical whiz that I could jury-rig it but most folks(I’m guessing) would not.
Yeah, we’re stocked with a lot of canned/dried food and several hundred gallons of drinking water but if a SHTF scenario lasts for very long it is going to be a cold, dark, miserable existence.
the guy upstream dammed it up
I wonder if that dam is legal. Water rights are variable, but generally speaking preventing people downstream from having water that flows through your property is . . . difficult.
Back on Bear Creek, the farmer upstream from the Old Man’s place got fined thousands by the state for just straightening the channel of the stream, because it adversely affected water quality for downstream for quite a while. I was pretty young but remember the creek was awfully muddy for at least a year, and for several more years after any rain at all.
“Intermittent” is the key word, as I understand it. You can’t touch continuously flowing water. In our case the stream would stop running in the late summer so it was fair game.
I wondered about that. I suspect that whether intermittent matters or not is variable, as well. In AZ, intermittent water is treated just like constantly flowing water for purposes of water rights. Not surprising, given the scarcity of water and the number of streams, etc. that are intermittent here.
So, we fall back to the wood stoves for heat and for cooking. Not bad in the winter but cooking on a wood stove in the summer?
____________
You cook outside in the summer, the way they used to in on the old Southern plantations. This also prevents your house from burning down should something bad happen.
Outdoor clay ovens, like they still use in many godforsaken parts of the world.
Cast iron works well for that also.
Ive shown my kids how to utilize our fire pit to make a makeshift grill if need be and to use our cast iron cookware. They of course love it.
How to Build an Earthen Oven
if a SHTF scenario lasts for very long it is going to be a cold, dark, miserable existence.
This is why I get a chuckle from preppers who hammer down on the need to store all kinds of different foods so you can enjoy a variety of foods in your diet besides rice and beans if SHTF. So they invest in all kinds of expensive freeze-dried foods and give newcomers grief who come onto survivalist forums asking how to safely store rice and beans long-term. I think they have a very optimistic view of what a SHTF scenario would ultimately look like that food variety is a blip on their radar.
If SHTF and I’m still eating out of my stores after a year, enjoying a variety of food in my diet will be the farthest thing from my mind. I’ve got enough variety to last about 3 months (canned tuna, peanut butter, coffee, frozen foods that all constantly get cycled/replenished) and then it’s only rice, beans, and a little dehydrated potato from there. Food is fuel and full belly of rice and beans is nothing to sneer at.
^^ I remember plenty of times when dad’s business dried up and we always fell back on beans and rice with maybe some type of animal every other week if we could.
Similar deal for electricity. I have a decent-sized generator that I can use to power the refrigerator and freezer but it is not enough to power my electric heat, hot water, or cookstove. Even then, it burns through about 5 gallons in about 8 hours so at best my gasoline reserves are only good for about a day.
That’s why you need wood fired steam power.
And wood.
And water.
Both of which are in pretty short supply in the Sonoran desert. We do have a goodly amount of mesquite, but its not very big, and I don’t know that the easily available supply would last long as a fuel source.
I told myself last weekend, I need to research steam engines.
A heck of an future article.
I don’t recommend nite soil
it is too easy to create a chain of vectors for all kinds of nasty pathogens. that goes for animal manure also…especially chickens
DId you hear about when Ole lost his gum in the chicken coop?
He thought he found it three times!
*Wildly funny if you’ve ever spent time traipsing around a patch of ground where chickens have been shitting.
I may have spent a little time doing that
not looking for my gum, mind you
Orthodox Jews are like the only sane people on Earth.
Dozens of ultra-Orthodox passengers refused to wear face masks throughout a United Airlines flight from New York to Israel
in my whole life I have never seen such behavior
People acting as if they were normal was quite common only 12 months ago.
passengers tried to stay away from the “coronavirus breeding ground” by going to the bathroom to drink, and couldn’t eat or sleep.
Oh, FFS.
we were afraid to remove our masks
So now we’re back to wearing masks to protect ourselves? I thought we wore them to keep other people from catching the ‘Vid if we are contagious.
The masks do whatever they need to do depending on the situation. Like a thermos.
LOL
The mask is a magical plot device that does whatever the blanche covidians need when they need it.
“When we arrived in the country, everyone went straight to do a coronavirus test.”
Does it work that way?
Nope. You might get a false positive, but you won’t get a true positive immediately after being infected.
“We went into the bathroom to drink because we were afraid to remove our masks”
So tediously stupid and ignorant. I’m surprised these people can get thru a day without a fear-induced stroke.
Those same bathrooms that are constantly contaminated by toilet plumes…
When I caught the WuFlu, and was speaking to the Dept of Health I began to list people I’d been in contact with while unmasked.
The POOBLICCC HEALTHHH EXPERRTTTT said “Don’t tell me those, what I need to know about is the people you were within 6 feet of for 15 minutes or more, whether masked or unmasked.”
The people who are actually contact tracing aren’t worrying about mask compliance, they’re worried about time and distance.
Yep. All you need to know.
The thing is, there’s nothing to even contact trace until one of the Orthodox Jews tests positive. And my understanding is that they cranked up the air exchanges in airplanes, so its really unlikely uou would catch it even if somebody on board was sick.
You talked to the contact tracer? Turn in your Glib card!
Unless you were giving them the names of your elected officials and enemies in an attempt to force them all into mandatory 2 week quarantines. Then it is OK.
No mention of the age of the whiner was made.
Anyone want to bet whether this mask breather (can we use this instead of mouth breather as a pejorative?) is over 60 and actually in a semi-risky cohort? Or whether it is some 20-something who loves to bitch on social media and is in no real danger from the Rona?
This person has the same name as the whiner in the article. She graduated from college in 2003, so she is likely to be about 40.
Woods and Malice did a cartoon together.
Episode 1 dropped today.
It’s pretty good!
In a post-apoc world, my talents with CBW and demolitions might come in handy… Do I hear a bid?
*FBI mole perks up*
I’ll share some bacon…oh wait…never mind.
Nice.
I hear he accepts tofurkey as payment in kind.
hurkhurkhurk
What, no R? At least saying CBR talents is better than saying NBC talents.
I’ll start the bidding at ….. 2 BIKES!
Obviously one of the bikes would have training wheels for SP
a book on coding?
rice, beans oats, grits, flour, cream of wheat, etc
vaccum seal packages in mylar bags
buy plastic barrels place staples in on a dry day, lid, seal lid tightly with duct tape then vacuum seal barrel
no air, no water bugs can’t hatch
buy a dozen of these: https://sawyer.com/products/mini-filter/
and some 5 gal bucks for a two stage system, gravity fed
buckets…flters come with a screw in valve for buckets
can use playground sand for top bucket
wanna get fancy:
3 buckets: top sand, middle Sawyer filter, bottom activated charcoal
We have a Berkey, because our water has trace heavy metals in it and that’s about the only filter that removes them, that we could find.
I keep a 12 – 18 month supply of their filters on hand. Even if I have to haul water from the pond, we should be good for drinking water.
Sawyer has one also
that’s what the bottom bucket activated charcoal is for/ dissolved contaminants
We’ve been playing “Naked and Afraid” in the back yard so we should be good.
How are sex games going to help out?
Kinky
I’d play with her.
I think she’d rip your nuts off and eat them for breakfast. Just because she can.
My son likes to watch this guy’s YT channel. He does some pretty amazing stuff.
LOL. Roberts declined to oversee the impeachment circus, presumably because it’s not constitutional once Trump is out of office. So they brought Leahy out of his crypt to emulate Roberts’ function.
What a fucking joke.
doesn’t incitement to riot have to be immediate?
their ridiculous assertion is ridiculous
From what I read, Roberts said no because, according to the Constitution, the only impeachment trial the Chief Justice presides over is the trial of the president. Trump is no longer the president, thus the Chief Justice is not required to preside.
the trial is a complete sham
Of course it is. I’m just saying what Roberts’ reason for declining was.
They might as well get Judge Judy.
That sounds a lot more like an excuse than a rationale coming from Johnny Penaltax. My guess is that he has at least enough foresight to see this is going to look really repulsive and stupid two, maybe three years down the road. He’s secure in his seat and isn’t going to stake his legacy on a really stupid and foolish gesture.
“People sat without masks for the whole flight, for almost 10 hours,” Tenenbaum said. “We did not eat, did not sleep. We went into the bathroom to drink because we were afraid to remove our masks.”
You can see it now. There are people out there who will never stop wearing masks, and will look upon the rest of us as though we are going to kill them and take their stuff.
It depends. Do they have anything worth taking?
Sinema says she is will not support eliminating the filibuster and claims she will not change her mind, I guess time will tell on that last one.
At least somebody wants to get re-elected.
She has been surprisingly not a complete disappointment.
So that is two Ds.
While she is quite attractive, she isn’t DD Q-bait.
One of the real tragedies of a societal collapse would be the loss of guidance from our betters when it comes to planning the best way to process lifestock.
An incredibly stupid story on how meat packing plants were really fucked over (and thus so were farmers) by the Rona. The upshot is that the govt is here to help us build back better!
Too much stupid from both sides to quote one particular passage, but
* Minnesoda’s Commissioner of Ag sure looks like he has an insider’s knowledge of all things piggy
* King Walz says the big meat packers are a monopoly and should be dealt with (using his friends at the Farmers Union for guidance)
* During the pandemic, the govt tried their very best by adding more regulators, caseworkers and inspectors to “fast track” smaller slaughter houses converting to larger operations
* Proving that the GOP can be just as stupid as the DFL, a GOP state senator Tony Westrom says high speed rural internet is critical to a robust meat packing industry (Looking at Westrom’s picture, I’d pay $$ to see his internet search history)
* The DFL isn’t going to be denied though. Senator Vang says that the real key is to pay the Rona bonus $$ to meat packing employees who got left out simply because they are illegal aliens. And give them health care.
Hey Mojeaux, If you’re still on, I emailed you a few minutes ago, Just an FYI.
Thanks for the heads-up. I’ll get back to you in a bit.
No rush.
And back. 🙂
OT: I went to visit my mom and my sisters yesterday at my eldest’s home. As I was walking up to the house I saw a line of water running down the driveway. As I got closer it smelled like sewage. It was appearing to percolate out of the ground near the driveway. I immediately told my sister that I think her sewer line was broken between the house and the road. It has been really cold for the past several days and she had a sewer blockage and backup a few weeks earlier. A rooter company snaked the pipes and likely cracked the terracotta in the process.
Thankfully she has a friend who does excavation work for a living and she was able to start working on it today. This will require trenching up the old pipe and tearing up the driveway. She has just started to save money after finishing renovating the interior of her house and this will tap all of her savings even with the friends and family discount she will get.
Just a rant and a suggestion to get line insurance on older homes, it can save you a bunch. Also be careful with parking on lawns in the winter, I suspect this was the impetus for the collapse of the pipe.
Pound on the rooter company about their obvious poor workmanship…
Speaking of Weimar level inflation- will cigarettes be a viable medium of exchange in the future?
Bottle caps.
leaves
Juul pods
Toilet paper.
And people say there are no such things as miracles…
https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/01/cuomo-expects-to-ease-some-covid-restrictions-cluster-zones.html
of course they are.
was never about cootie bugs
get rid of trump and punish country for electing him
Well, OK then.
This screams safe to me
“Nevada dentists, veterinarians, podiatrists OK’d to administer COVID-19 vaccine”
https://www.fox5vegas.com/coronavirus/nevada-dentists-veterinarians-podiatrists-okd-to-administer-covid-19-vaccine/article_6403c9f6-5d38-11eb-9d0c-dfdd17fc9cb6.html?block_id=1002218
I’d trust my vet before my podiatrist.
I remember when glucosamine was only available as an Rx from my vet. Fixed my knees better than the Army cure – 800mg Anaprox (OW! my tummy hurts).
It’s an IM shot. Not really difficult.