Daily Stoic Week 12

by | Mar 18, 2022 | Advice, LifeSkills, Musings | 130 comments

Last Week

The Daily Stoic

The Practicing Stoic

Meditations

How to Be a Stoic

I really liked this one, H/T mindyourbusiness:

The Stoic Challenge

Disclaimer: I’m not your Supervisor. These are my opinions after reading through these books a few times.

 

March 19

“For there are two rules to keep at the ready—that there is nothing good or bad outside my own reasoned choice, and that we shouldn’t try to lead events but to follow them.”
—EPICTETUS, DISCOURSES, 3.10.18

When I choose to be angry at things I can’t control, I am choosing to have a bad reaction. I have improved greatly in this. Last weekend I was working on my truck while my wife sat in the garage playing tool monkey for me. She commented that she noticed when I got frustrated, I did not yell or try to force anything. It is much more enjoyable, whether I get everything I wanted to or not.

 

March 20

“I may wish to be free from torture, but if the time comes for me to endure it, I’ll wish to bear it courageously with bravery and honor. Wouldn’t I prefer not to fall into war? But if war does befall me,
I’ll wish to carry nobly the wounds, starvation, and other necessities of war. Neither am I so crazy as to desire illness, but if I must suffer illness, I’ll wish to do nothing rash or dishonorable. The point is not to wish for these adversities, but for the virtue that makes adversities bearable.”
—SENECA, MORAL LETTERS, 67.4

Following the Stoic philosophy has no impact on whether or not my life will go well. It is a tool to help deal with external problems by not wasting time or energy on things that I have no control over. I would rather that everything went as I would desire, but I am learning to be mentally prepared, no matter what may come.

March 21

“People seek retreats for themselves in the country, by the sea, or in the mountains. You are very much in the habit of yearning for those same things. But this is entirely the trait of a base person, when you can, at any moment, find such a retreat in yourself. For nowhere can you find a more peaceful and less busy retreat than in your own soul—especially if on close inspection it is filled with ease, which I say is
nothing more than being well-ordered. Treat yourself often to this retreat and be renewed.”
—MARCUS AURELIUS, MEDITATIONS, 4.3.1

I try to incorporate a little meditation onto my sleep routine. I also like to sit on my back deck and watch the lake sometimes. When I am going to sleep, I picture myself sitting there. It’s nice to have a place that relaxes me, but it is important to be able to relax regardless of where I am physically.

 

March 22

“What is it then to be properly educated? It is learning to apply our natural preconceptions to the right things according to Nature, and beyond that to separate the things that lie within our power from
those that don’t.”
—EPICTETUS, DISCOURSES, 1.22.9–10a

I have seen educated people get really upset about things that were both outside of their control and had no real affect on their lives. As long as I can clearly distinguish right from wrong and what I can control, I have the basis for living as a truly educated person.

 

March 23

“The diseases of the rational soul are long-standing and hardened vices, such as greed and ambition—they have put the soul in a straitjacket and have begun to be permanent evils inside it. To put it
briefly, this sickness is an unrelenting distortion of judgment, so things that are only mildly desirable are vigorously sought after.”
—SENECA, MORAL LETTERS, 75.11

Am I greedy? A little bit, I like having a nice house and being able to keep my truck running. I have always been a good worker and have never been unemployed very long. Is this greed and ambition, or is it taking care of my family? Probably both, but if I had to choose one, taking care of my wife is my number one priority.

 

March 24

Eat like a human being, drink like a human being, dress up, marry, have children, get politically active-suffer abuse, bear with a headstrong brother, father, son, neighbor, or companion. Show us these things so we can see that you truly have learned from
the philosophers.”
—EPICTETUS, DISCOURSES, 3.21.5–6

I use the Stoic philosophy in my daily life. Looking from the outside, it might not be obvious, but people who know me at work have noticed I am a little odd compared to most people. One coworker commented that I am always in a good mood and do not let work stress affect me.

 

March 25

“. . . freedom isn’t secured by filling up on your heart’s desire but by removing your desire.”
—EPICTETUS, DISCOURSES, 4.1.175

If I have no desire for anything, I am free. I am also homeless. I keep my desire for nice things and an easy life, but realize they are not essential items. If I keep my desire under control and still work for what I enjoy, I am mostly free.

 

This week’s music is from one of The Dead South’s two new albums.

Easy Listening for Jerks Pt. 1 has traditional bluegrass songs:

You Are My Sunshine,

Matterhorn

 

I will be on the road from New York, so will be unable to read comments until Friday night. Thanks for all the comments so far, I appreciate them.

About The Author

ron73440

ron73440

What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade MOLON LABE

130 Comments

  1. Not Adahn

    I stoically waited for this to be published.

    • Tonio

      There were… problems. Mostly squirrel-related.

      • Tonio

        Apologies to Ron who has turned out some really nice work with this series.

      • Animal

        Told yas. The skwerlz are bound on domination.

  2. Ownbestenemy

    Thanks for all the comments so far, I appreciate them.

    It would be awkward if the comments were not so…appreciated.

    • juris imprudent

      He might just have to stoically endure them.

  3. Ownbestenemy

    “Eat like a human being, drink like a human being, dress up, marry, have children, get politically active-suffer abuse, bear with a headstrong brother, father, son, neighbor, or companion.”

    I like this one the best. Live life.

    • Animal

      Ah, get born, keep warm,
      Short pants, romance, learn to dance,
      Get dressed, get blessed,
      Try to be a success.
      Please her, please him, buy gifts,
      Don’t steal, don’t lift,
      Twenty years of schoolin’,
      And they put you on the day shift.

  4. The Other Kevin

    “. . . freedom isn’t secured by filling up on your heart’s desire but by removing your desire.”

    This is also a very Buddhist way of thinking. The key to happiness isn’t to get what you want, it’s to want less and be satisfied with what you have.

    • hayeksplosives

      Are you suggesting I should lower my expectations?

      • Fourscore

        A good fisherman has his/her excuses made before he/she leaves the dock.

        “Don’t expect too much out of marriage and you won’t be disappointed.”

        My mother

      • Not Adahn

        Remember “excuse T-shirts?” Or was that just a redneck thing?

        People who do not remember the 70s and 80s are exempt from this exercise.

      • PutridMeat

        Great minds and all that; was thinking the exact same thing.

        I mean I get the concept, but think the ‘removing your desire’ thing is sort of like the liberal conceit – identify a real problem but take the solution to the extreme and break everything. To deeply desire is inherently human (there are other kinds of desires you PRE-VERTS) and to attempt to deny your desires or ‘remove’ them is somewhat anti-human. The right solution to not filling up your heart’s desire is not to deny them all, but to recognize that not everything your heart desires is actually good, nor will fulfilling them actually lead to happiness or a better life. Try to identify what desires in your heart will truly benefit you and yours and lead to a better place and focus on those. That doesn’t mean “be satisfied with what you have” if what you have is shit. And certainly don’t “remove your desire” in it’s entirety.

      • Plisade

        I would separate a desire from having a preference.

        To me a desire is an attachment to something, having *judged* it to being a thing you perceive it to be based on a fleeting impression you’ve had of it. Your impression and perceived value of the thing could and should change based on circumstances as you interact with it. Your attachment to your one perception of the thing is the problem. Generally, this leads to a fear of change and a longing for the way things used to be, and to perpetual unhappiness with the moment.

        “A thing is a thing, not what you think of the thing.”

        Letting go of preconceptions, working to eliminate imprinting, letting yourself see the world as it really is, help to free yourself of attachments/desires.

        Doing what you like, associating yourself with things you prefer, things that bring you pleasure, doesn’t have to involve forming attachments. Know and accept that what brings you pleasure today may bring pain tomorrow, and hold on to neither perception.

      • PutridMeat

        I agree and this makes it a bit more an issue of semantics – what is the meaning of ‘desire’? I think, when most people hear the line “remove your desires”, what it brings to mind is the ascetic ‘ideal’, not “don’t get fixated on what you think a thing is and its value to the point of being unable to release it or stop pursuing it when it becomes detrimental”. It *does* evoke a lower your expectations mindset, be content with where you are and you are or are not doing. I think that’s neither a useful or desirable approach except in temporally limited circumstances.

      • Plisade

        Yep. In my own life I seek to maximize pleasure and thus happiness, but the form that pursuit takes is constantly changing and I’m cool with that; change can bring its own fun and adventures. I think the lowering of expectations is akin to compromising, and like you I disagree with that approach to living. Go all-in with this life!!!

    • Ted S.

      But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need.

    • Muzzled Woodchipper

      I’ve recently read a book, “Get Focused. Stay Focused.” It’s a book on how to become a better baseball player using eastern meditation techniques, as well as visualization, etc. It was quite the read, although it’s certain the author, a real baseball man, needed an editor, bad. Although it wasn’t his intent, certain spots certainly come off as bashing western culture and how we go about interacting with the world as individuals who’ve been molded by the culture around us. His arguments make sense if you get around the bad writing, but, man, could he use an editor.

  5. juris imprudent

    Did they half-shift You are my Sunshine to a minor key?

    • Grummun

      I like it. It has a more melancholy, almost dark, vibe, instead of plaintive loser.

      • juris imprudent

        Yeah, aside from tempo, I was trying to figure out what it was they did.

  6. MikeS

    My new favorite series.

    I am reading the The Daily Stoic, well, daily. I started reading Meditations, but was getting a bit hung up on the thee’s and thou’s and such. I learned that there is a newer, more modern translation by Gregory Hayes. I have yet to buy it, but it’s on my list.

    I also bought How To Think Like An Emperor and am enjoying it.

    If my foray into Stoicism accomplishes nothing else, it got me reading again. (Where is the What We Are Reading article? I got something to say!) I also stopped reading the news sites multiple times a day. Now, just the local paper once and then occasional Glib Links.

  7. Mojeaux

    This week, I have learned something about myself. When I am neither happy nor sad, or have something to look forward to, I am adrift. Lost. Feeling very alone.

    When I have a goal, a purpose, and I work toward that diligently, I am over the moon with my successes and down in the dumps with my failures. I’ve had lots of successes this week and I like it. Lots. And I can whoop with joy at those and sob at the failures. I like it better that way than just floating through life taking what comes with utter equanimity.

    Like Hayeksplosives, I don’t think I’m suited to stoicism.

    • Gender Traitor

      Likewise. HAVE to have something to look forward to or I get depressed.

    • Tundra

      That isn’t how I interpret stoicism at all. Your mission in life will only be enhanced if you are able to develop a resiliency that enables you to methodically accept challenges, analyze and overcome them. It doesn’t mean you can’t celebrate successes and experience the joy of accomplishments.

      Being down in the dumps is normal, but possibly reducing the time between successes is the point.

      • Mojeaux

        I’m starting to read it as just going along with the flow without complaining and with modesty in one’s sense of accomplishment. “What will be will be. Chill out and let it wash off your back.” I am starting to not read it as a way forward (swimming toward something), just a way to float along with the tides.

      • MikeS

        Marcus Aurelius is considered one of the great Stoics. He certainly didn’t just “float along with the tides”.

      • Tundra

        This.

        I look at it the same way as training my body so I can do cool things like walking up a mountain. The stronger and tougher I am, the further I can go, even if conditions get bad.

        I see Stoicism as conditioning for the mind – some heavy lifting that makes the inevitable challenges more bearable. And most importantly, develop the deep knowledge that this too shall pass.

        I am finding that reading the stoics and the Bible simultaneously is extremely interesting.

      • Mojeaux

        I can’t articulate what I mean.

      • Fourscore

        I fully understand.

      • Tulip

        It’s about choosing how you will react. Drawing on our previous conversation, you can be upset because of earlier experiences with a subject, or you can view it as a second chance. The stoic part, is deciding to see it as a second chance rather than allowing it to cause you pain.

        I hope it doesn’t bother you that I’m using that as an example.

      • Mojeaux

        Oh, it doesn’t bother me at all.

        The way I think is that it would NEVER have occurred to me to think of it the way you framed it. Once it was reframed FOR ME, then it was easy to see and deal with.

    • MikeS

      Stoicism isn’t about being unemotional. It’s having control of your emotions instead of them controlling you. There is a difference between the Stoic philosophy and what the word stoic has come to mean in modern times.

      • R C Dean

        But enough about Fauci’s personal philosophy . . . .

  8. DEG

    I will be on the road from New York, so will be unable to read comments until Friday night.

    Enjoy the trip!

    Oooo…. The Dead South.

  9. Animal

    One coworker commented that I am always in a good mood and do not let work stress affect me.

    I’m a lot like that myself. When asked about it a few years back, I told a co-worker that a lot of is was perspective. “If someone isn’t actually shooting missiles at me, it’s not a bad day!”

    • Not Adahn

      I has a member of the gun club call me “smiley” once.

      I LIKE shooting, ok? Either that or it’s the whole southern acculturated thing.

      • Not Adahn

        Not Rizzo?

      • Ted S.

        Maybe you do look like Ratso Rizzo, but I was making a joke about you being called “Smiley”.

      • Not Adahn

        Oh no, I got the joke. And I was going to originally reply with there being a dearth of bearded Muppets, or Guy Smiley being obviously Canadian before I settled on “Muppet rat reference.”

    • hayeksplosives

      One of my former coworkers, my chief partner in crime, texted me on Wednesday “ you have a
      knack for making people want to work for you. That’s why you have to do the management thing. Pity to let that particular superpower go to waste ?”

      I’m struggling with that one. My new manager seems to have noticed a have a knack for the non-technical aspects of getting a team on track, but it takes more mental effort. However, I do enjoy a challenge.

      • Ownbestenemy

        I’ve always been a lead from the bottom person. I didn’t ask for this gravitas but I surely will take advantage.

    • Ownbestenemy

      It take a lot of stress to break me. My ex-wife always said two things: “Nothing ever bothers you” and “Everything always works out for you”.

      I learned a long time ago there is much I cannot control and the things I can control is what I focus on. It made me happier and well, everything always worked out for me.

      • Fatty Bolger

        So you’re Even Steven?

      • Fourscore

        My ex said I wouldn’t know what to do with out her.. She was wrong.

        She also said, “God will punish you.” She was wrong about that, too.

      • R C Dean

        My ex-wife always said two things: “Nothing ever bothers you” and “Everything always works out for you”.

        My ex would say similar things. Only not in an approving tone. It bothered her that she couldn’t get under my skin, and I think it made her resentful when things seemed to work out for me.

  10. Tundra

    “. . . freedom isn’t secured by filling up on your heart’s desire but by removing your desire.”
    —EPICTETUS, DISCOURSES, 4.1.175

    This is a good one. And really, really difficult.

    • Gender Traitor

      Does that include removing your desire for your Significant Other?

      • MikeS

        No. It’s referring to material goods. Things.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        *sips on Goldschlager*

        I don’t understand.

      • Tundra

        It’s an interesting question. What is desire? It seems that a lot of the messaging about desire across many philosophies suggests that it is something different than love, loyalty or respect.

        Desire seems more like envy. It also can keep you from living in the moment or reaching that higher level of happiness that most people are trying to achieve.

        I still dig the missus, regardless!

      • Dr. Fronkensteen

        Envy might be a better term. Without going for something or some type of goal you’ll have a sense of boredom and/or lack of meaning. Even then you might even a feeling that you’re working toward the wrong thing. But going for that goal can lead to unhappiness without the right mindset. You have to learn to happily achieve or contentedly achieve assuming happiness is a fleeting emotion.

      • Tundra

        Viktor Frankl:

        “Don’t aim at success. The more you aim at it and make it a target, the more you are going to miss it. For success, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side effect of one’s personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself or as the by-product of one’s surrender to a person other than oneself. Happiness must happen, and the same holds for success: you have to let it happen by not caring about it. I want you to listen to what your conscience commands you to do and go on to carry it out to the best of your knowledge. Then you will live to see that in the long-run—in the long-run, I say!—success will follow you precisely because you had forgotten to think about it”

      • Plisade

        “Do your work, then step back.
        The only path to serenity.”

        –Tao Te Ching

      • R C Dean

        Do something you enjoy. You will very likely get good at it, because you enjoy it. And once you are good at it, success will follow.

        Or not, but at least you are doing something you enjoy.

      • Sean

        Do something you enjoy. You will very likely get good at it, because you enjoy it. And once you are good at it, success will follow.

        Related?

      • Gender Traitor

        From Despair.com: “COMPETENCE – If you can’t learn to do it well, at least learn to enjoy doing it badly.”

  11. Zwak,The Baddest Johnny on the Apple Cart

    And here I will be on the road TO New York.

    We live in interesting times. But to echo Tonio above, this is a great series, thank you.

  12. Scruffy Nerfherder

    OFFS

    The composer package update server is responding with a header message of #StandWithUkraine

    • Scruffy Nerfherder

      The ironic part is that the packages I am updating are developed in Belarus.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Probably

        But do I now have to worry about getting software updates for my webstore because Belarussian developers might get banned from the servers? I wouldn’t put it past the server operators.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        And yes, I realize this is a relatively minor thing in the whole scheme of things.

      • rhywun

        Some of my team is in Belarus. I won’t mention the war if they don’t. And not even then.

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Are they contracted or a subsidiary? How is your company handling it?

      • rhywun

        Contracted.

        All I know is that the situation is being “very carefully watched”.

      • rhywun

        There it is.

      • Ownbestenemy

        One of the all time greatest bits

      • R C Dean

        The ironic part is that the packages I am updating are developed in Belarus.

        Maybe a bad translation of “#StandOnUkraine”?

      • Scruffy Nerfherder

        Nah, they’re just clients on the server as well. I believe Adobe owns it.

  13. Not Adahn

    Apparently its a “crazy nice” day outside. The owner of the English Springer sent a text with said spaniel wearing goggles sitting on the owner’s Vespa.

    • Tulip

      Aww, I love dogs in goggles. So silly cute.

      • Not Adahn

        Yeah, joining a group text is occasionally nice, and a necessary evil for coordinating the pack trail walks.

        But it just reminds me (several times an hour) why I loathe social media.

  14. hayeksplosives

    Since my name has been invoked relating to stoicism, I feel the need to say that I do not feel that self-denial is a virtue in itself. It can absolutely be a virtue in certain situations, such as patiently waiting for a deferred reward in order to achieve a better overall outcome.

    I also know that it’s necessary to accept that some bad/unwanted things can’t be changed. No point in spinning wheels or mental energy on them.

    But I am a big believer in changing my environment when I can and should. Humans are pretty good at that.

    The key is having discernment in all things.

    • Not Adahn

      Not to actually contribute for once, but that when I should is pretty fraught for me. I really internalized “leave no footprints” to the extent that it’s a principle in most areas of my life.

      Like today: the vet staff want me to tranquilize Lily to make her more pliable. If she’s just property, nbd. But how far does her personhood extend such that it becomes improper to alter her behavior? Regular training is much more like a negotiation: behave this way and I’ll give you a treat.

      • Tulip

        I took Babs for her final surgery follow up today. She recognizes the vet parking lot and won’t get out of the car. She’s 80 pounds, so I need help to get her out. Once out she’ll walk to the door, but is obviously upset when I can’t go with her (vet still has stupid COVID rules). The vet tech said something about spoiled greyhounds that made MY hackles rise. I’m the only one who gets to call her spoiled!

      • Not Adahn

        Yup. Apparently my face eyes when the vet said Lily needed to lose 10 pounds was enough that she immediately backpedaled to “well, I mean five pounds.”

        /vet still has a mask requirement.

      • Tonio

        Is this only during vet visits, or as a lifetime strategy? If the latter, I’d say find a new vet.

      • Not Adahn

        Before visits. I generally don’t need to force her to do what I want.

      • Tulip

        Same, just getting out at the vet. Otherwise, something is wrong -like she’s sick or something

      • R C Dean

        The Big Dumb One loves going to the vet. The staff loves him – when he goes in, its like when Norm goes to Cheers.

        It helps that he has no apparent pain threshold – nothing they do, draw blood, injections, you name it – seems to bother him at all.

        The Little Fat One just goes catatonic. Which makes her easy to handle, at least.

      • Tulip

        Until this year, Babs had no problem with the vet. They made a fuss over her and gave her treats! But she’s had health problems this year and had to have tests and xrays and an MRI and surgery and….. All stuff that is scary and often painful and now she is afraid. And because of stupid COVID rules I can’t be with her to comfort her, so even worse.

      • Tundra

        How is she?

      • Tulip

        Good! Eye looks great! Toe nail is growing back and tummy trouble is over (knock on wood). The b12 shots have been miraculous. I live on a hill and for a while I was dragging her up the hill and these days she drags me up the hill.

      • Tundra

        I’m thrilled to hear that! Always a gut punch when the pups aren’t doing well.

    • MikeS

      But I am a big believer in changing my environment when I can and should.

      And in my scratching-the-surface knowledge of Stoicism, that’s exactly what one should do. Change what one can change, don’t spend energy on that which you can’t. Develop the wisdom to tell the difference.

      I’ve not seen self-denial as being something Stoicism teaches.

    • Not Adahn

      Why would you want to untie the bell from the tiger’s neck?

    • The Other Kevin

      “The Chinese readout said US & NATO should talk to Russia to try to resolve the crisis and address the security concerns of Russia & Ukraine.”

      This was mentioned earlier this week, but you’d think that someone, somewhere would be working on diplomacy. But I wouldn’t expect that from Joe “everyone who disagrees with me is a fascist nazi” Biden.

      • invisible finger

        Exactly. The party in charge hates the idea of diplomacy in its own country, so it’s likely they hate it (if they even understand it) internationally. And there are a few NATO countries with leadership behaving much the same.

      • Gustave Lytton

        They’ve turned the rhetoric up to 11 and got large swathes foamed up. How can they walk it back so quickly?

        (The usual compliant media and internal talking points pivot will probably work again)

  15. Sean
    • Not Adahn

      What’s the red tape on the trigger guard for?

      • Sensei

        It lines up with where the trigger is when fully released. Maybe to see where it breaks? But I don’t see a point in actual use.

        I’m trying to figure out how the thing doesn’t recoil back into your face when held like that if it is fired.

      • R C Dean

        That’s a Trijicon ACOG on top. They have long eye relief. I suspect the pic of the guy aiming it is a joke. Why not? The whole setup looks like a joke.

      • Grummun

        What’s the point of a can on a revolver with a cylinder gap?

      • Not Adahn

        Once you’ve threaded the barrel on a single action revolver, you kind of have to.

      • R C Dean

        What’s the red tape on the trigger guard for?

        Probably so you don’t get it mixed up with all the other identical guns at the range?

    • juris imprudent

      +1 authentic Hoover hound

    • Tundra

      I could have told you that. GSD has to eat them individually.

      They should have done Golden v Lab. That would have been a showdown.

      Also, NO SPAGHETTI FOR THE DOGGEHS!

      • Swiss Servator

        Does he like the ol’ spaghet? You bet!

    • Fourscore

      Chow? Hound?

    • rhywun

      LOLOL the German Shepherd eats like a cat – bits of food flying everywhere, dish pushed all over.

  16. Sensei

    Moderna seeks FDA authorization for a 4th COVID vaccine shot for all adults

    Moderna on Thursday requested emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration for a fourth dose of its COVID-19 vaccine as a booster for people 18 and over — a broader request than Pfizer made days ago for its vaccine.

    Currently, a single booster dose of Moderna’s mRNA vaccine is authorized for emergency use on top of its two-dose vaccine.

    The biotech company’s request comes two days after Pfizer and its collaborator BioNTech requested federal permission to provide an additional booster dose of their COVID-19 vaccine Comirnaty to people 65 and older.

    Moderna said its request for approval for all adults was made “to provide flexibility” to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and medical providers to determine the “appropriate use”of a so it could make a
    shitload of money from a
    second booster dose.

    • juris imprudent

      So who exactly paid for all these shots? Taxpayers, am I right? I can’t see the insurance companies ponying up.

      • Sensei

        No. DC said pay for it and it was covered. Mind you FedGov and private insurers paid the same rate.

        So rest assured it will be calculated in your group insurance costs along with COVID treatments and the like when the experience is evaluated.

        My bet is from an insurance perspective even with potential side effects having people take the shot versus get sick makes the shot a better economic alternative.

      • Sensei

        To be clear if you were uninsured Medicaid paid.

      • R C Dean

        My bet is the insurance companies have done a crap job of analyzing the claims data showing the side effects.

      • Sensei

        I’d agree because at this point people will claim a hangnail is a side effect.

        Still they will absolutely try to statistically remove the noise from the results. If you can find a statistical edge in pricing a plan it can allow you to legitimately win business.

        Problem with any insurer is they delude themselves into thinking they have a legitimate pricing edge. Instead they are simply rolling dice and in a few years pay the price.

      • R C Dean

        As I tell the board of my captive insurance company:

        (1) Insurance is cyclical. Don’t think the good years, or the bad years, are a permanent state.

        (2) Insurance is a long game, that always reverts to the mean.

      • Sensei

        Captives, even of good size, are still generally relying on the expertise of the outside specialists they employ for broking and actuarial.

        The loss experience of even a large captive pales to the loss experience of an actual large insurer. As a result you can get much more actuarially credible data at a carrier.

        Most small self insureds don’t have really credible loss experience data that you can use to price.

  17. R.J.

    Driving from New York = Good
    Driving to New York = NEED MOAR STOIC

    Have a good trip. I am hugging the southern coast as I go around a giant storm that’s been parked in Pensacola for four hours now. Hopefully you don’t hit the northern tip of this mega storm.

    • rhywun

      No storms in NYC right now. Beautiful, sunshine, mid-sixties.

      Just sayin’.

      • MikeS

        ??

  18. Festus

    Harkening back to R.J.’s link from last night – “La-la-la-la-la-la-la-la la La-la-la”!